April Dunford is the author of the must-read best-selling book Obviously Awesome, a definitive guide to product positioning. She spent 25 years leading marketing, product, and sales teams and now runs her own consulting firm, helping companies of all shapes and sizes nail their positioning. April has worked hands-on with over 200 companies on positioning, including Google, IBM, Postman, and Epic Games. In this episode, April delves into the intricacies of positioning, including its distinction from messaging and branding, and shares real-world examples of products with strong and weak positioning. Additionally, April shares her insights on when to bring in a professional and the key differences between segmentation and personas. Don't miss this opportunity to gain valuable knowledge from a true industry leader.

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Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/april-dunford-on-product-positioning-segmentation-and-optimizing-your-sales-process/#transcript

Where to find April:
• Website: https://aprildunford.com
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford 

Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) April's guest post on Lenny's Newsletter
(03:42) April's background
(07:36) Interesting companies April has worked with
(12:17) Defining positioning
(15:31) Company misalignment vs. positioning issues
(17:42) How to assess if your product’s positioning is weak or strong
(19:50) Examples of companies with great product positioning
(22:32) The essential five steps to figuring out your product’s positioning
(29:25) Help Scout's positioning process
(35:54) How important is having a differentiator?
(40:12) The difference between positioning vs. messaging vs. branding
(46:29) When to hire a professional
(48:32) How long does product positioning take? 
(54:41) What’s the difference between segmentation and personas?
(01:02:50) Where to find April


References:
• Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It: https://www.aprildunford.com/obviously-awesome 
• April’s guest post on Lenny's Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/positioning
• Epic Games: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/home
• Bluelight Analytics: https://www.bluelightanalytics.com/
• Postman: https://www.postman.com/
• Startupfest: https://startupfestival.com/
• Help Scout: https://www.helpscout.com/
• Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/


Thank you to our sponsors:
• Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/
• Flatfile: https://flatfile.com/Lenny
• Productboard: https://Productboard.com/

How to nail your product positioning | April Dunford (Obviously Awesome)

Pete Kazanjy is the author of Founding Sales: The Early Stage Go-to-Market Handbook and the founder of Modern Sales Pros, an invite-only peer learning community focused on sales operations and sales leadership. He’s also the co-founder of Atrium, a B2B SaaS company that provides data-driven sales solutions. Pete got his start in product at VMware and then dove deep into the art and science of sales. In today’s episode, we talk about the importance of founder-led sales and how to methodically scale a sales department. He explains the difference between old-school sales and modern sales, which focuses on human connection and solving problems for customers. He also shares actionable tips to improve your sales technique and explains how to use data to monitor your success at different milestones in the sales process.

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Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/founder-led-sales-pete-kazanjy-founding-sales-atrium/#transcript

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Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for supporting this podcast:

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny
• Flatfile—A CSV importer that says yes instead of error: mismatch: https://www.flatfile.com/lenny
• Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app: http://merge.dev/lenny

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Where to find Pete:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/Kazanjy
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kazanjy/
• Website: https://kazanjy.svbtle.com/ 

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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Referenced:

• Founding Sales: The Early Stage Go-to-Market Handbook: https://www.amazon.com/Founding-Sales-Go-Market-Handbook-ebook/dp/B08PMK17Z1
• Brianne Kimmel’s SaaS school: http://briannekimmel.com/saas-school/
• Modern Sales Pros: https://modernsaleshq.com/
• The Lean Startup: How Today’s Entrepreneurs Use Continuous Innovation to Create Radically Successful Businesses: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898
• The Four Steps to the Epiphany: Successful Strategies for Products That Win: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Steps-Epiphany-Successful-Strategies/dp/1119690358/
• Pete’s presentation on founder-led sales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAXIVAZJyPA
• Pete’s guest post on Lenny’s newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/sales-bottom-up
• The Cadence: How to Operate a SaaS Startup: https://medium.com/craft-ventures/the-cadence-how-to-operate-a-saas-startup-436aa8099e8
• Maker vs. Manager Schedule: http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html
• Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/
• Atrium: https://www.atriumhq.com/
• Greenhouse: https://www.greenhouse.io/
• Pete’s ICP Template: https://www.foundingsales.com/2-product-marketing#building-narrative
• Marissa Fuhrer Bell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissafuhrer/
• Data-driven sales master class: https://salesnerds.atriumhq.com/msp-nailing-science-of-sales-figma-webinar-video
• The Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement: https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Process-Ongoing-Improvement/dp/0884271951
• The Score Takes Care of Itself: My Philosophy of Leadership: https://www.amazon.com/Score-Takes-Care-Itself-Philosophy/dp/1591843472
• All-In podcast: https://www.allinpodcast.co/
• Encanto on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/encanto/33q7DY1rtHQH

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) How Pete met Lenny 
(05:05) Pete’s background
(07:20) Modern sales vs. old-school sales
(09:17) What is founder-led sales, and why is it so important?
(14:58) When to hire your first salesperson 
(18:20) Why you should keep your in-person events to around 10 people
(19:34) What a sales motion is and why it needs to be updated regularly 
(20:55) What are the leading indicators of success?
(23:54) Why founders don’t need to be rock stars at sales
(28:28) Sales mindset changes—the number-one tip to improve your sales
(33:30) How modern sales should focus on helping customers solve problems
(36:00) A few tips to help you get better at sales
(36:40) ICP and personas
(39:14) Why you should hire junior sales staff in the early stages
(45:40) Signs your new hires aren’t a good fit
(47:38) The importance of using metrics for success
(49:33) Month-by-month expectations for sales hires
(51:19) Why work from home is bad for junior salespeople
(54:19) Why you shouldn’t be afraid of sales
(55:19) Lightning round

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny's Podcast Transcript on Youtube

How to nail your product positioning | April Dunford (Obviously Awesome)

Founder-led sales | Pete Kazanjy (Founding Sales, Atrium)