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I just felt like I was so addicted to this kind of false version of my life that it was just taking over. And the thing that really upset me is the press ran with that. They were saying, Oh, look, he's not the perfect, happy-go-lucky kid you think he is. He's having a nervous breakdown in New York. If I was having a mental breakdown, that's not for you to report on.

They took the story in the wrong direction and they kind of painted people looking for help in the wrong light. The best-selling author and host.

The number 1 health and wellness podcast.

On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

A lot of studies show that how we were loved or unloved between the ages of 0 to 5 impact the next

15, 25, 50

years of our life and how we give love to ourselves and how we give love to others. And so I was thinking, do you have a core memory or an experience with your family from childhood that kind of embodies the feeling you have about them now or that keeps you tied close to them?

I'd say sort of more than a memory is just a feeling that we, I could say all of my brothers and I had, was that because our dad's a comedian, his job only ever existed once we had gone to bed and our mom worked from home, she was a photographer. So to us as kids, our parents didn't really work, They just were always home. So we had this amazing foundation where no matter any time of the day, either mum or dad would be at the house. And we felt so kind of solid as a family, which is why like I kind of have this dream of 1 day having kids and putting my work to bed and just kind of being there as a dad, because I really admire how my dad was around, you know, being a comedian is a very, very volatile job. The highs and lows are so extreme.

And as kids, we never saw that. The only version of my dad I ever saw was the happy dad, let's go to the park. We used to play this game called golf goals, where we would go down to the park, there's like this big blue metal goal, and we would just fire golf balls into that goal every day. And he would give us 10 P every time a ball went in the goal. And that was kind of the foundation of our golf and all that sort of stuff.

So for me, broader than a core memory was the idea of always feeling connected and safe within my family unit. And I think a large portion of that is that my mum and dad have always been such a solid team and they've always been there for us.

Yeah, wow. Have they, as you've grown older, have they kind of opened up about some of the challenges that they were going through that they obviously didn't show you and your family when you were kids, because I can imagine we always talk about this, right? Like being a comedian is extremely difficult because you're making everyone else laugh. At the same time, it's a career path that, like you said, is completely volatile. Have they opened up as time's gone on?

And how has that felt when you've gone from like seeing your parents always being happy to being like, oh wait, there was all this other stuff going on. Absolutely. They have. And it's not even sometimes thing that they've told us.

It's just things that we've grown up to recognize as a young kid. You know, you're not looking to how's my mom feeling, how's my dad feeling? And now as an older person, those are things I care about. I wanna call my mom, cause I know it will brighten her day. So that's all part of growing up, I guess.

So seeing the way in which my dad's job affects him or my dad's job affects my mum is something we've all sort of come to terms with and he's amazing at it. I mean to be honest I say affect it doesn't really affect anyone he's so good at handling it which is a lot of why I feel like I am the way I am. For example the crowded rooms come out the critics absolutely hated it they thought was the worst thing they've ever seen. And it doesn't really upset me. And I think a large part of my feeling towards that has come from my dad being able to do a gig, the gig not going well, him brushing it off his shoulder and just right onto the next 1.

Yeah, well, and first of all, I want to point out as well, so I've been watching The Crowded Room and me and my wife have been watching it together and we're actually really enjoying it. Good, thank you. We're actually loving it because I love a show that has mystery that's trying to like get me to figure it out and get me to think about it. I'm kind of confused and I love stuff like that. Like I'm a massive Christopher Nolan fan.

So all my favorite movies are Nolan movies. And the reason why I love them is because I have no idea what's going on. And that's what keeps- And you

got to figure it out.

And you got to figure it out. And I love puzzles and I love escape rooms and I love anything that's got me thinking, what is going on here and why can't I figure it out?

Mate, do you know what you should watch? I admittedly watch it to go to sleep if I'm ever feeling stressed or overstimulated. I watch this guy called Chris Ramsey. He's like a YouTube guy. He's a magician, but I just watch him solve puzzles.

He like buys these Japanese like handcrafted puzzle boxes. And he just solves them and I've started buying them. And they come to the house and you sit down for 4 hours put it down pick it up and try and solve this puzzle and it's amazing.

Are you any good at them?

No I'm terrible

at them, absolutely terrible.

I've had an unsolved Rubik's cube since I was like 11 but I but yeah so I watch his videos because there's just something about like the sound of the wood. I'm a carpenter, so I love like craftsmanship and that sort of stuff. So I love the way that these pieces are put together. So watching him solve the puzzles I find so relaxing.

Yeah. I think for so many of us, you know, getting bad reviews, perceptions, people talking about us, whatever that may be, whatever scale we live at can actually affect us. Sure. And you saying that actually seeing your dad, letting him, seeing him shrug it off and seeing him move on actually really helped him. Do you think that you've been able to create a bit more of a skill around that now, or is it something that happens naturally for you?

Because I'm guessing that there's a lot of people who are listening and watching going, Tom, that's pretty amazing that you can do that at your scale and your level, but you know, I'm still affected by that. Or I really struggle when my mate says something. Like I know, sure, number 1 thing I hear is like, most people don't chase their dreams because they're scared of what their mates will say. Let alone what the world will say. What The

world will say.

Yeah, like I had this late, I was flying back last night as I was telling you, so I was on a plane from DC to London last night and the air hostess, she was wonderful, her name was Jeanette, she said to me, she was like, Jay, I really want to start a YouTube channel, but you know, you just got to block out what your friends are going to say, right? And she was just worried about it. So it's a very real thing. So I guess, have you kind of figured out a little formula for it, or is it just natural because you saw your dad and it's become easier that way? I think it's a little bit of both, really.

You know, I think it's something you definitely get better at. I'm really lucky that I have an incredibly strong group of friends. Like, 1 of my best mates just called me up earlier to say he'd seen the fifth episode and he's like, I know what happens in the show and I'm still loving it. The people I'm watching it with have no idea what's going on, but they can't wait for the next 1. So, you know, I really, really hold high the opinions of people that I really care about.

I'm also really lucky to have an amazing group of fans who are so supportive. They are diehard. They are there day 1. And that makes me feel really good. But I do think a lot of my lessons in life have come from my dad and the ways that he can deal with things, things that he hasn't done very well in the past that he's passed on to me.

And I sort of, I live by this really. I don't actually know if Christian Bale did say this, but I think he did.

I love Christian Bale. We'll say he said it. I absolutely love Christian Bale.

But I think the quote is, if you have a problem with me, text me. And if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.

That is so good.

And I think that that is such a great piece of advice because as a celebrity, you live on this stage, you live out there, you kind of give out a version of yourself that you want people to see. And that can be the version of yourself that they can have a problem with or they can love. And there is a, you know, I feel like I'm quite authentic in my public persona, but I just try to really care about what my family thinks, what my friends think, what the people in my local community think. I live in Kingston. I know everyone that lives there.

I can't walk 5 feet without bumping into 1 of my mum's friends. So yeah, so it's something I've been working on. I try my best to not let that stuff affect me. It does.

Yeah, of course.

I'm not cold hearted or anything like that. It does affect me, but I just try to move on and focus on the positives.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. What was, did you ever see your dad deal with everything and you thought, wow, that was incredible? Like, was there anything specific that you remember that like seeing him like tackle something and you thought, wow, that really impressed me, even if it was something really small in hindsight.

I think the thing I admire most about my dad is his resilience. You know, he's someone who has had an incredibly successful career in his earlier life, and then later in life his career sort of plateaued and he struggled, and he's never stopped. He's never given up. He's still gigging to this day. He's still writing books.

He has a patron. He has a podcast. He's constantly grafting to get to where he wants to be. And I think being a young kid and seeing your dad continually working as hard as he can to kind of put his best foot forward, for me, has been a huge drive for my work ethic. I'll give it 100% or I'll give it nothing.

And I think a lot of that has come from my dad and seeing him deal with that. The funny thing about my dad, as you talk about doing a bad gig, I must've seen him 20 times. I've never seen him do a bad gig. He always seems to absolutely rip it. But maybe that's just because we're in the audience.

But he, but no, I owe a lot to my dad and a lot of the teachings are things he's told me and things I've just witnessed him do.

Yeah. And was there ever a piece of feedback or a rumor or something you saw that did affect you, where you actually thought, or at least made you stop and go, God, I'm trying to see the positives, but this one's tough. Like, like this actually made me have to pause and figure it out.

Something that did really upset me, I was in New York, I was shooting The Crowded Room, and I was having a really hard time with the job just because of how taxing it was, the emotional capacity that I was having to get to every day. And I decided to delete my Instagram because I just felt like I was so addicted to this kind of false version of my life that it was just taking over. I would be on set working, I'd come and sit in my chair and just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. And it was becoming a problem. I was just obsessed with it, and I was obsessed to find out what people were saying and how people, what they thought about me.

So I decided to make an announcement, which unfortunately we have to do, and say that I'm taking a break from social media and I try to position myself and say like I'm taking a break from social media because I feel like my mental health will benefit from it and the thing that really upset me is the press ran with that and they tried to make out that I was having this mental breakdown. And what upset me was, if I was having a mental breakdown, that's not for you to report on. They took the story in the wrong direction and they painted again, this negative light on mental health, rather than saying, Oh, he's doing it. It's okay that he's doing it. So we should all feel okay to do it too.

They were saying, Oh, look, he's not the perfect, happy go lucky kid you think he is. He's having a nervous breakdown in New York. And I think that that was a really unfair line of journalism, let's say, because I just think it again kind of painted people looking for help in the wrong light, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It almost sounds like you were actually preemptively going, I'm doing this so that I don't go in that direction. Totally. At least I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.

Absolutely.

It's almost like I'm proactively seeing that I could end up in a position where I might have a breakdown, I don't want to be in that position, and so I'm responsibly saying, guys, I'm taking a break in order to protect myself. A hundred percent. Yeah, which makes a lot of sense and actually is quite admirable again.

Totally, and that's kind of what the message of the show is about. Like the message of our show is that asking for help should be something that we celebrate. If you're struggling, if you need help, if you feel bad and you wake up and you go to a friend, a therapist, a teacher, an employee or a colleague and say, I'm really struggling, I need some help. That should be something that we give you a pat on the back. Like, I would love to help you.

I'm delighted that you asked me. And that for me, that announcement was kind of my olive branch and the press ran with it how they ran with it. But to be fair, it kind of gave me a great drive to finish The Crowded Room in the way that we did, to like, if you're not going to listen to my personal message, then you have to listen to the message of my show. Yeah. So it kind of went hand in hand.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You've reminded me actually, when you said that, because I think we naturally today think of therapists or doctors, but you mentioned teacher there. And I was thinking, when I was going through a really rough time at school once, I remember my walk to school from the bus stop, I'd see a teacher every day that I was really close with at school, but you never talked to your teachers walking to school, right? You're a

crazy person.

Yeah, But I was so lonely at the time that I remember like almost thinking like, well, he's the only person I can talk to because of other stuff that I was going through at school. And I remember I started talking to him on the way to school. His name is Mr. Buckridge. He knows I go on about him everywhere and he avoids it because everyone's always like, oh, Jay's been talking about you, Jay's been talking about you.

But it was that exact feeling where it was like, he was someone that I felt I could open up to at that point in my life without feeling judged, without feeling like he was going to see me through another lens. And just having that space to be seen for as a human who is going through stuff by a teacher was a huge, huge win. And so, you know, it's, you are right that, that help can come in all different forms and it doesn't have to come in the ways that we expected to come in.

Yeah, it doesn't have to be a professional. I go to my friends a lot and, you know, some friends are better than others in certain situations. I've got some friends that are very much like pull your socks up and get on with it. And then other friends who are like, come here and have a cry on my shoulder. But like it, It varies.

So I just really hope that that's what the show can do is sort of paint this positive picture of asking for help is something to be proud of.

Well, that's a great message. And I think we all need to hear it. And I want to go back a little bit because there's a lot of interviews that you've done and I've watched a lot of stuff over the time, but like we were talking about, a lot of it's soundbites because it's quick and short and like these entertainment interviews. And that's why I was really grateful that you took out the time to do this. But you were diagnosed, as far as I read, with dyslexia at age 7.

And I was wondering how a lot of our community and our audience is diagnosed as well, or some of them are not, but they're finding out later on in life. How did that affect you? Or how were you set up for success with that from day? Because as an actor, you've got to learn lines, you've got to read lines. There's a lot of activities that people would assume are quite challenging.

But you found a way and walk us through that a little bit.

I don't know. My mum has always been really hands on with our education. She, you know, really wanted us to just do our best. Our dad always said, like, look, I don't care what grades you get. As long as you try your best you try your best and that's all that we can ask for.

But yeah my dyslexia it's really just my spelling. I mean honestly

it's just that

yeah you know like those sort of games that you play at Christmas. Have you ever played the 1 we have to write down the answers that is such a good game.

Is it Boulder Dash? I don't know Boulder Dash. Is it?

It's basically a game where someone will read out a scenario or ask a question and then you have to answer the question to the best of your ability, but you can also bluff and lie.

Oh, I've never played this game.

And if you write somewhat a believing answer and people vote for your answer, you win.

Oh, cool. Okay. I've never played it.

Which is great. But when I play it, everyone's like, what does that say? That is definitely not spelt right. But yeah, so my spelling was really the biggest hurdle. Yeah.

I worked really hard at school. I didn't do particularly well, but again, my parents said, as long as you try your best, then that's all we can ask for.

And acting, you started early too, age 9, right? Like that was something that you started pursuing really early on in life. And I feel, was that something that you were always sure about? There's that famous viral TikTok that always goes around of you, you know, I can't, I don't know how old you were being asked, you know, what superhero would you play? Oh, right.

When you're older, you say, oh, maybe Spider-Man, right? And it's like, and I wonder like how much of your acting career do you feel like you've manifested or there was a vision or a focus or is it more just like this was naturally what you were into and it grew? Where did that come from?

I do believe in manifesting actually, I really do. I think what's interesting about my career is this was never something I wanted. I just was a young kid. I loved dancing. My mum would take me to a dance class every Saturday and I got spotted through that dance class to audition for a show on the West End.

I ended up doing the show. I loved it. Billy Elliot was the time of my life. I, you know, it was such a cool experience. I'm just by complete fluke.

An agent came to see the show the night that I was on. She signed me. She sent me to an audition for a film. I was lucky enough to get the part. All of a sudden I was on set with Ewan McGregor and Naomi Watts and we made The Impossible.

And to be perfectly honest with you, it was, it was just a hobby. It was something that my mum would let me do on the summer holidays. She was very keen that I kept my schooling up. And there sort of came that time in England where you're in between GCSEs and A-levels and you're trying to figure out my... When I was going through that, you could still drop out at A-levels.

Obviously now you have to do A-levels. And I had that moment where I was like, what do I want to do? I could try and stay at school and figure out what I want to do, or this thing that's been a hobby, but my sort of summer holiday activity, which is acting, I could try and do that for a living. And I've been so lucky that I've been, you know, offered jobs and all that sort of stuff. I decided to go with it.

I joined the Brit school because, you know, my mum was keen that I didn't go for school for an education, but went to school to expand my social skills and meet kids my own age. All my friends when I was 15 were like 30 year old people, because they're all adults from the business.

So I

think my mum was keen that I had some friends that are my age, who are now my best friends today. So I never really wanted this. I just sort of never stopped doing it. And I love it. I absolutely love it.

I love the creativity. I love the building blocks that are required to put a film together. I love the collaboration on set between people from all different walks of life. You know, a film set is a melting pot of all sorts of different people. So I love it.

I absolutely love it.

Yeah. Wow. I read something that you said you were bullied for doing ballet. Yeah, right. Which obviously got you into playing the role of Billy Elliot, because it's ballet and tap, right?

Sure. It's both. So was that tough at that time? Or were you trying to hide it? And then you end up at the West End and you're on the main stage and everyone's seeing it, or was it kind of easy to navigate?

And how did that go down? Because I feel like as a kid, doing ballet and tap must have been a little challenging. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't easy, but it also wasn't tough.

You know, I went to a rugby school. So you can imagine like the 1 kid in the school that does ballet. There's going to be comments here and there. It wasn't the easiest thing in the world. There were kids that didn't understand why I was doing it or what I was doing it for.

No matter how many times I explained, like I'm the only guy in a class of 30 girls in tights. I was like, guys, this is what you want to be doing. Like rugby is not it. But I, nah, it was tough. But again, like it goes back to what we were saying about resilience and keeping your head down and crowded room was the hardest job I've ever had for all sorts of different reasons.

And there was a point in time where we were talking about do we shut this down and walk away from it because of how challenging it was. And you know I dug my heels in I put my head down was like now I'm going to finish this I'm going to see it through. And I think, you know, you learn from past experiences like that. So I really am proud of the way everyone handled the crowded room. And I think that stems from my childhood, my dad's experiences and all that sort of stuff.

Yeah. Well, so I've got a confession as well to make. Go on. So I went to rugby school as well.

Okay. Did you play?

I played, yeah, I played for my A team and I was, I was pretty good.

Oh, you were in the A team?

I was pretty good.

Okay. What position did you play?

Blindside flanker.

Okay, wow.

So I was, I was really into rugby because I went to rugby school and I loved football, but my school didn't play football and so I was like, no, I've got to be on the school's main team. So I worked really hard to get on the team. But after we played rugby on a Saturday, my mum forced me to go to dance class and part of it was ballet and tap as well. Although I did not end up at the West End and play Billy Elliot, because I don't think Billy Elliot was brown. So that wasn't going to happen.

So it wasn't the same path as you. But I also had that experience. That's why I had to ask you about it.

Did you enjoy it?

I really enjoyed it for the community aspect for it. Like I love all the lads that I was there with. They were just a great laugh. And it was really interesting because we'd go from, I'd literally go from playing rugby straight to class on a Saturday. And I'd go in there with all my bruises, exhausted and all the rest of it.

But everyone was just so much fun. And it's almost like the rugby pitch was more stressful because everyone was like, you know, trying to be intense and trying to be this and that. Whereas everyone just having a laugh at the dance class. We do everything from hip hop to street to whatever. But yeah, I remember never telling, I think this is the first time I've ever spoken about it.

It's out there. It's been a safe space with you.

But it's interesting because rugby is regimented, isn't it?

Yeah, I loved rugby by

the way. You play a position that is as specific as saying the blide side flanker. You know, when you're a dancer, you're just a dancer. You can fit in however you want to fit in. The teacher can ask you, how are you feeling about that?

Rather than like, you need to get your head down to the left to make a proper tackle. I did love playing rugby when I was smaller. When all the, well, not when I was smaller, when all the kids were smaller. And then there was that time where I came back to school after Billy Elliot and everyone had just become a man. And I was still very much a child.

I remember we played this school called Trinity College and it was my first game back and I was playing scrum half. I came on the second half And it was a violent game. It was not, it was not a gentleman's game of rugby. And I was standing, they were kicking to us, we were receiving. And I remember thinking, as long as the ball doesn't come to me, or for the kick, I'll be fine.

I need the game to get going and then I'll be fine. I'm scrum half, relatively safe position, a good playmaker. As soon as he kicked the ball, it's coming straight towards me. I'm trying to catch it. I can hear the boots running towards me.

I fumble it, knock on. The game goes on. I start playing well. I assisted a try. And then I don't remember what happened or how it happened, but there was a really tough kid on our team who will remain nameless.

I haven't spoken to him since, I don't know what he's doing, but he got into a fight with some kid on the opposing team and it was really quite ugly. And then the kid's dad came on the pitch to tell off this boy that was on my team and the kid on my team knocked out his dad. Like proper, like it's the first time I've ever seen someone hit someone. And I couldn't believe that a kid who was, he must've been 16 at the time, but he's 1 of those 16 year olds that would look older than I do now, when he was 16. And I just remember hearing the noise, he like cracked his dad on the jaw, hit the floor.

Then this whole big fight broke out. I'm not a fighter. I stepped away and was sort of like, what's going on? Yeah, it was wild. And that was the last game of rugby I ever played.

It was against Trinity College.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, it

was really intense.

Wow. Yeah, that's how intense it got. My last game was similar, but not watching a fight. So someone ran, it was a big game and I was playing really well that season and everything was going really well. And someone ran into a rock but with their elbow, which is obviously illegal.

Totally.

They ran in and they elbowed me right there, like right below the ends, it's on this side and right below there. And the next thing I know, I get up and I'm like kind of feeling a bit aggressive.

Are you cut as well?

Well, I didn't notice and then blood starts to drip and I was like, that's when you freak out because you're like, oh God, I'm like, I can, and there's a lot of blood just dripping. So I get subbed off and the nurse on the side just puts a bit of glue there, like to stick it together. And at that time you don't really notice and you think you're all right. And then literally an hour later, it's just getting thicker and thicker and thicker. And I'm ending up with this.

Run to the hospital on the way home, because my coach was just like, suck it up, it's fine. You'll be fine. Run there. They're like, if you were any later, you would have had nerve damage and like, personally, potentially lost your eyesight, whatever it was. And they had to like glue it and a little bit of stitches or whatever it was.

And I, for the, for the rest of the month, I walked around with my, like, you know, I literally hanging over and I looked like I'd got into like the worst fight, like I walked into a store and everyone would kind of back off and stuff. And it was just really uncomfortable. That was my last game of rugby. That's why I just remembered that. But yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was intense, but it was great.

Like you said, it was great regimented discipline training. I love training with my mates. I love playing. I loved as a young man as well, like having a outlet to release the energy that I had,

I felt

was good in, obviously in a way that wasn't trying to hurt others.

But that's what's so great about boxing. Yeah. It's like boxing is such a great release. You know, you see these young kids, like young kids who are angry, who need to let something go, like go and punch a bag for an hour. Well, that will make you, that will calm you down.

I love how boxing is such a great thing for young, for young people to release that sort of energy.

Are you boxing?

Do you box? I love boxing. It's been a few years since I've done any sort of training. I used to go to this great gym in New York called Church Street Boxing.

Just

love it there. I had a great pro. You could sort of spar with him because you know that he wouldn't batter you because he could control himself. I went to 1 sparring session, just a general session and

I got absolutely battered. Yeah it was tough, but I love it.

I love the sport. I'm a little bit sad as to like how the sport is being run right now. But I do love the sport and I admire the athletes. I think they're amazing.

What's your take on YouTubers, boxing and all that kind of stuff? Because it's obviously bringing a lot of attention to the sport. To be perfectly honest with you,

I don't really mind it. I think it's quite fun. I think if you're doing it for the right reasons, you know, there's a great opportunity to raise some money for amazing charities. And I think a few of them have done a lot for charity. I think it's really great.

I think, yeah, you know, my brother Paddy would never have been watching boxing and now he loves it because of his favorite YouTubers are boxing. So if it's good for the sport, it's good for the sport. I sort of don't really mind. I think it's funny to be honest. Yeah.

Cause you sit at home watching it, you're like, I could do that. I can get in there and do that.

And you're like, well, why don't you? And you're like, well, I don't really want to do that.

So we might see you in Creed IV then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

That's, yeah, we'll do the acting boxing.

I'd love to do a boxing movie. Yeah? I think it would be cool to do a boxing movie, but where the fighting is real.

Walk me through that.

I wouldn't necessarily be in that film, right? But I do think that you could make a really interesting film where the outcome of the film is determined on the outcome of the real fight.

Has anything like that ever been done? Like racing or any, can you, I'm just trying to...

Not that I know of.

Yeah, not that I know of, that's what I'm trying to think.

It could be really cool. Yeah, wow. But yeah, I love, I love boxing movies. I'm a sucker for it.

Yeah, which one's, which one's your favourite?

I think Rocky 2 is probably my favourite.

I remember when we

were in Billy Elliot, we had this room called the Billy Room and there was always a Billy backstage while the show was going on because the show was so labor intensive, it was very dangerous, there's lots of moving parts, there's lots of acrobatics. It wasn't too uncommon for a Billy to get injured and then there would be someone upstairs who would replace that Billy. And we would just hang out upstairs and there was an Xbox and a television and all that sort of stuff. And 1 of the DVDs that we had, the 2 DVDs we had was Step Up To The Streets, my favourite film of all time, and Rocky 2. And I must have seen that film 40 times.

How many times did you practice the dance in the mirror?

Oh man, I've got the whole dance

down, bro. Can we see it? No.

Yeah, no, I love that film. I absolutely love that film.

Yeah, I'd say my favourite, so Rocky was my favourite because I'd watched it with my dad. And Rocky, I struggled between Rocky III and Rocky IV because I loved Mr. T. That's 4 right? That's 3.

That's

3.

And I loved Ivan Drago as well which was

4.

And they were both just such great movies.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's just, yeah, it's such great entertainment even though it's nothing like real boxing.

Yeah, nothing at

all. Nothing like real boxing. But then I remember watching real boxing when I was growing up, it was Prince Nassim. Oh man, I love him. Yeah, my dad was a big fan of his.

So I'd remember watching him a lot.

I love his style. There's a video of him working with the, I guess he's just, it's like a swinging bag and he is so effortless. Cause Canelo's got a great head movement, but he looks like he's thinking about it. Whereas Nazeem is just living the dream. Just, he's so fluid and I love the way he used to move.

Yeah. And I love how

he would enter the ring. Me, I would over rotate and slam on my face or something. Yeah, he was brilliant.

Yeah, it was like wrestling meets boxing.

Yeah, yeah. He must have been a nightmare to fight.

Yeah, yeah.

It must have been like, he's beating me and he's embarrassing me. This is really tough.

Terrible. What do

you think of Lemachenko? Did you see his last fight?

I haven't, no I didn't see it.

I didn't see it. That's an interesting 1.

Go on, tell me. I didn't see it at all.

Well I think the general consensus is that he won. Oh. But it was given the other way.

Right, right.

He is my favourite boxer because of his history, his background in dance. He was like, I guess, a really talented boxer. And then I get, I don't know if this is true, but his dad sent him to go and study dance for sort of 5 years or something like that.

For his boxing.

For his boxing, which is why his footwork is like on another planet. There's loads of examples of where he's fighting people and they look up and he's just gone. He's behind them. So I really admire him, but his most recent fight he lost.

How did it go against him? Was it a vote? It was a vote. Yeah,

They went against him. So I wonder whether they'll fight again.

Yeah, I guess they'll have to if there's, it seems like this isn't a conspiracy theory.

That's the problem with boxing though, like will they fight again? Yeah. You know, because it's a tricky, it's a tricky business. Unlike the UFC where, you know, if they want to fight, they'll fight. That's what I love about it.

I took my brother and my cousin to the UFC the other night and that is such a savage sport. It is. That is, yeah, it's terrifying.

We don't want that to be a movie in a real 1.

Have you seen The Warrior?

Is that what you're going to talk about? Mate, that movie's so good. The Warrior is 1 of the most underrated movies. That movie's excellent. It's so good, yeah.

It's a little ridiculous, the idea that they have like 6 fights a night getting ready for 1 final, but I do love that film.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really good movie. It's brilliant. Oh, well, okay, alright. So we know there's a boxing movie coming somewhere down the line.

There's got to be 1 down the line.

There's got to be 1 down the line. Absolutely. Yeah. And we want to see you work your way up and, I mean, we might see you like, you know, actually go do it for real.

Yeah. Imagine For charity, maybe.

1 of the things that you mentioned recently was that you gave up drinking about a year and a half ago. And you said it was the hardest thing you ever did. And I wanted to know what was so hard about it for you? Why was it so hard?

It's interesting. I didn't 1 day wake up and say I'm giving up drinking. I just, like many Brits, had had a very, very boozy December, Christmas time. I was on vacation. I was drinking a lot.

And I've always been able to drink a lot. I think I get my genes from my mum's side in that thing, like I can drink. And I decided to just give up for January. I just wanted to do dry January. And all I could think about was having a drink.

It's all I could think about. I was waking up thinking about it. I was checking the clock, when's it 12? And it just really scared me. I just was like, wow, maybe I have a little bit of an alcohol thing.

So I sort of decided to punish myself and say, I'll do February as well, I'll do 2 months off. If I can do 2 months off, then I can prove to myself I don't have a problem. 2 months go by and I was still really struggling. I felt like I couldn't be social. I felt like I couldn't go to the pub and have a lime soda.

I couldn't go out for dinner. I was really, really struggling. And I started to really worry that maybe I had an alcohol problem. So I decided that I would wait until my birthday, which is June 1st. I said to myself, if I can do 6 months without alcohol, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem.

And by the time I had got to June 1st, I was the happiest I've ever been in my life. I could sleep better. I could handle problems better. Things that would go wrong on set that would normally set me off, I could take in my stride. I had so much, such better mental clarity.

I felt healthier. I felt fitter. And I just sort of said to myself, like, why am I enslaved to this drink? Why am I so obsessed by the idea of having this drink? And I would look back and recognize that I would go to events for work and be like, I can't enjoy myself until I've had a few beers.

And I just felt so much pressure. And this is 1 of the things why I've sort of distanced myself from the rugby community, because So much of it is about how much can you drink? Let's get you as drunk as possible. And it's honestly been the best thing I've ever done. I'm a year and a half into it now.

It doesn't even cross my mind. I found amazing replacements that I think are fantastic. Ones that are also really healthy. I found this 1 beer that is full of electrolytes and it's, you know, the carbohydrates in it are long lasting energy. So like having a beer is now actually like a really healthy thing.

I'm really lucky that all my friends are super supportive about it. I've never run into that scenario where my friends are like, oh, go on, just have a beer, like you're fine. They've always sort of really supported me. And I don't want to be that person that's saying to people, you should get sober, you should get sober. If I could encourage someone to drink less, then that's great.

But I don't want to start getting into the world of, you need to stop drinking. Because I just, it's not for me to say I went on my own little journey. I'm really enjoying it. I'm delighted that my mum's also given up. She's loving it.

And it's been amazing. I can't believe the difference that I feel from not drinking. I feel amazing.

That's amazing, man. I love hearing that. And I love hearing that it's been great for you, right? I think that's the point. Not everything has to be like, look what I did.

You can do it too. It's kind of like, no, this is just what's been great for me. Do you think it was partly that attitude for you at least in the beginning where it's like, well, I can drink. I drink a lot. It comes from my mum genes and it doesn't affect me.

And then all of a sudden you realize, well, wait a minute, it's more than that. Because I think there is that, like, I was like that as a young man as well. Like for me, it was easy to drink. I didn't drink daily. For me, I drank a lot more socially.

Sure. And I love playing drinking games with my mates. And that was really what I enjoyed the most probably. And for me, when I quit, I could just quickly see how it just got me into doing things I would never do if I wasn't drunk. So for me, it was more that, but yeah, I wonder for you, did you find that there's a really fine line between like, oh, I know I can drink a lot.

And then all of a sudden you're kind of addicted, not addicted beyond that.

No addicted, I'm happy to say, like I was definitely addicted to alcohol, not shying away from that at all. I think anyone that wakes up and has, not wakes up, anyone that has a beer every day is probably got a little bit of a problem. But yeah, you're right. I would drink and drink and drink and drink. And then you would just reach that moment where you're like, wow, I shouldn't have had that last beer.

And you wake up the next day and you have a terrible headache and you're suffering. I bought 1 of those rings that will tell you about your sleep. Yeah. And it was amazing because I couldn't sleep. I was like, why can't I sleep?

I'm working 14 hours a day. I'm doing 2 hours in the gym. I'm eating really healthily and I can't sleep. What's wrong with me? I bought this ring and it was booze.

It just, it was completely affecting my sleep. And since I've given it up, I can sleep anywhere. You know, it's also interesting as well going on nights out and having a great time as the sober person and then getting to that point in the night where people start, you know, spitting in your ear and everyone's on love you, man. I love you so much. You're like, yeah, brilliant.

I love you too. I'll see tomorrow I'm going to bed. I love being that person now. I love seeing my friends on the golf course at 8am in the morning, feeling fresh and ready to go. And they're sort of crawling out their car.

And So yeah, so I'm over the moon to

be sober.

I love it.

Yeah. For anyone who is listening right now and is going, Tom, I love that for you. I want to do it too. Like they're listening going, I'm having too much every day. I can notice some of those things, but I'm just stuck.

And it's hard because we know that addiction's that way. We know that this is heavy. It's not easy. But if someone is watching going, Tom, tell me like, what did you do to even get started? How did you have that courage to say, I'm going to do January, I'm going to stick at it.

Were there any moments where you actually fell back and then had to get back on the horse again, like just walk us through that a little bit more for anyone who is watching going, Tom mate, I wanna be in your position in like 6 months.

I didn't fall back on it. I have done in the past, like I've had periods of my life where I'd given up drinking and then gone back to drinking. But this time, I don't know, it was just different. I really worked to sort of change my mindset. I really asked myself, like, why do you drink?

Why are you drinking? And a lot of the time my answer would be to feel more comfortable in the social environment. And I just put myself in those environments and just would force myself to be there. I'd force myself to hang out and go to

a club or go to a

bar, go to a dinner.

And- So you weren't avoiding those places.

I was at the beginning because I didn't feel like I could go and not have a drink because of the stress of it. But then after a while, I sort of was like, mate, you got to pull your socks up here and you can't just live in your house all the time. You've got to go out and enjoy yourself. And if you're only enjoying yourself because you're drinking, then you really do have a problem. But I just changed my mindset.

I just, I found really good replacements, things that I could sort of attribute to having a beer. I often found with me, most of it is just the ritual of cracking something open and sharing it with friends and drinking it. Whether it's sparkling water or a beer, I now can't, I don't associate, like, I don't see a difference. But I think it's different for everyone. I had a great support system.

Jack is 1 of my best mates and we travel all over the world. He doesn't drink and doing it with him was a really helpful experience for me. My brother is always on the road with me. He was very supportive. And yeah, I just really set my mind to it.

I was

like, I really want to do this. I want to prove to myself I can do it. And then once I'd felt the health benefits and started really feeling like my full self, I was like, oh my God, this is, this is the best. But do you not drink?

I haven't drank for 17 years. No way, congratulations. That's amazing. I feel amazing, yeah. It's incredible.

Wow. It's like 1 of the best feelings in the world and it's, my biggest like worry when I was about to quit was like, how am I going to hang out with my mates?

That was my biggest worry.

That was my biggest worry. I was like, my mates knew me as the guy who was like, first to the game, last to get out.

That was me.

You know, the clown when I got drunk, like life of the party, kind of like that kind of guy. And then all of a sudden I decided I wasn't going to drink anymore. I was like, crap, am I going to fit in? And then I remember I went into the corporate world for a bit and I didn't drink and I was like, God, am I going to miss out on opportunities and networking? Like, you know, all the guys afterwards are like going to get drinks and I'm like, I'll come but I'll have a water or I'll have a soda, whatever it is.

And what was really interesting for me is not relying on drinking made me rely on qualities and skills I had that were actually better. So now that I couldn't drink as an excuse to hang with the lads, I was bringing out parts of my personality that I probably would have just hidden away or ignored. Yeah, suppressed. And all of a sudden you were actually getting respected and liked for who you were rather than the person who you were when you were drunk. Sure.

And, and actually that worked in the workplace and there was no 1 at the workplace going, oh, Jay doesn't drink, so he's not getting promoted. Right. It wasn't like that. People were like, oh yeah, I really like hanging out with Jay or he's a really good guy or whatever it may be. And I was still getting the same opportunities and I was still getting promoted at work and whatever it was.

And I think that's why I'd like to remind people that don't feel like your career or your work is going to suffer. Even for you, Like you've, I'm sure as a, you know, with your career path, you have to be at parties, you have to be at events. Of course. And the fact that you're able to do that now without having alcohol and it doesn't sound like it's negatively impacting your career. If anything, It's the opposite.

Mate, I honestly cannot believe the amount of times I've sat down with an actor that I've really admired or sat down with a producer or director and been like, oh, you know, well, I don't drink anymore. And they go, oh, I don't drink. 10 years. And you're like, oh my God. And I've had so many insightful conversations with people like yourself where you've heard their story, their reason for giving up, and there is a wonderful community of people.

And I love it. I love being a part of that community. I'm really proud to be a part of it. I hope that, you know, I can meet other people and chat to them about it, because it's really nice. It's lovely to be like,

let's go get a lime soda together,

you know?

Yeah, let's get a juice. Let's get a smoothie. Yeah. Yeah, no, it is true. It's true.

And it's really interesting because they, I can't remember, I'm trying to remember. There was this blog that came out years ago. I can't even remember it now. And there was this girl on Instagram who was getting a lot of likes and a lot of comments and a lot of attention and 1 day she just disappeared. Like she stopped posting and everyone's just like all the comments were like, where are you?

What happened? Are you okay? Like what happened to you? You know, everyone was frantic trying to figure out what happened to her because they loved her, they were following her and all the rest of it. And what they didn't know is that it was built by a team that was trying to show that what people didn't notice is that in every picture she posted she was drinking.

And it was a made up, it was almost like original AI. Wow. That was made up to prove the point that you can love someone and you can think you're really close to them and you could think their lifestyle looks amazing, but actually they've got a drink in every picture they post and you didn't realize they had an alcohol problem. So there was no real person who died. But the point was that this, your friends could be struggling even when they're posting these beautiful lifestyle pictures.

But are you aware? Wow. And are you conscious of how much it affects you? And I can't remember who built that page.

Well, I think that's 1 of the problems with alcohol is that if you came out with alcohol right now, if alcohol wasn't a thing and you like, I've invented this drink that is going to make you like either really happy or really aggressive or really stupid, and we're going to just sell it to the masses. People would be like, nah mate, keep your funky juice. Like we don't want that, that sounds terrible. And it's 1 of those things, cause it is so socially acceptable, the addiction side of it, the bad sides of it, really do fly under the radar. And that's really interesting.

I'll tell you something I do love about being a non-drinker. I love being the designated driver. I love being that person that makes sure that everyone gets home. I don't know, I just, I like being a dependable person. I think I'm quite dependable.

I really like that, that thing. And I saw this crazy YouTube video once, this was years ago, of a guy that went to a bar, he got drunk and he drove home and he crashed his car. And I don't know if this is real, it could have been fake, but it's really impactful. Basically what his friend had done was set up the room as if he had been in a coma for like 10 years. And his friend wakes up hours after the crash and his friend is there and he had all like old makeup on to make him look older.

And Now I'm thinking about it, there's no way this could have been real, because how would they have been able to pull that off? But he basically is saying to him, like, you've been asleep for 10 years. Everyone's missed you. Like, we can't believe you're awake. This is amazing.

And it shows like how a stupid decision like driving drunk can affect the future of your life. So I do love being the designated driver. That is something I enjoy. Seeing my friends have a good time and being like, don't worry, Tom will take you home.

Yeah. I used to love being the designated driver until I realized that an ex-girlfriend just had me do that because I was the 1 who didn't do that. That wasn't a fun designated driver job, but I've always been that guy since, because, so I lived as a monk for 3 years.

Yeah, amazing.

And when I came back after that, obviously I never went back to drinking alcohol and everything, and so, but I went back into the workplace and I remember everyone would always open up to me and give me advice, but it's what you're saying. When someone was drunk, they'd tell me their whole life story. Yeah. Next day they'd wake up and go, Jay, you don't actually remember what I said, right? I'm like, I remember everything.

They're like, please don't tell anyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I loved, I loved that part where I was like, I was able to be there for people. Totally. Just hear their stories.

A hundred percent. And someone that had context the next day. Because if they told someone else who was drunk, you'd both not remember, then it'd be gone. No, I think the benefits that you've just pointed out, good sleep, good health, great mental clarity. They're huge.

But there's a couple of things I want to point out for everyone who's listening, just as takeaways, because Tom makes it so seamless when you're talking about it. It's really beautiful as well. But 1 of the things you mentioned was finding alternatives. And during my monk life, we always talked about how there was something that we called the higher taste. And he was saying, you can never give up a lower taste unless you had a higher taste.

And so there has to be a switch, there has to be a replacement. And so the fact that you found alternatives, I think that's half the battle. Because most of us are trying to take something out of our lives, and then you're just trying to fill it, and then you have to go back to what you had before because you're not finding a replacement. So that was beautiful. And the second thing you said, which I loved, which was having this conversation and dialogue with other people, someone who's 1 year ahead of you, someone who's 10 years ahead, someone who's 20 years ahead, who's gone through that process and they're open and honest and vulnerable about, you know, I did have a weak moment or you know what, this was really tough for me.

And I think having those communities where you can talk about these things makes a massive difference. So if anyone's struggling, I hope that those 2 things can kind of, you know, give you the support you need.

And again, it goes back to the message of the show is that like, you should ask for help and you should feel empowered to do so. Yeah. But tell me about your monk life.

Like that must have been amazing. It was special.

I've always been so tempted to go away and do 1 of those retreats where, you know, you go to somewhere like India and you go to those places where you don't speak for a month or something like that. Like that must have just been the most enlightening experience.

Mate, now that you've said that, when you want to go, I'm going to take you. Please, because I would

absolutely love to go. I met a guy, I was on holiday earlier this year, and he had just got back from a retreat. He did 2 weeks where he didn't make a sound and was just explaining to me how eye opening it was.

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, to me it was 1 of the best experiences of my life because even the stuff that I did then, I was 22 years old when I did it. Even the stuff that I did then, I don't even know if I'd be able to do it anymore now. But there was such a like energy you had as a 22 year old. Sure.

Where it's just open to any experience and wanting to try it all out.

Amazing.

And I think for me it was because, and it comes back to the people that have done things. When I was 18 was when I first met a monk. I never really knew what monks did or any of their practices, but I met a monk who I write about in my book who just blew my mind because he was the first person I met that I felt was at ease with himself. And when I was 18, I'd met people who were like rich and famous and beautiful and powerful and all this type of stuff. But I don't think I'd met anyone who was truly happy and content with themselves.

Not happy like, oh, I'm so happy, Life's amazing. I mean more like happy with who they are. At peace

with who they are. At peace

with who they were.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.

And for some reason at

18,

that kind of like was an arrow straight to my heart where I was like, that's real. Like I want that. And it just, it's so hard to explain because everyone's like, well, how did you know that at 18? And I was like, I don't know. It must've been how powerful he was.

It's kind of like, you wake up when the sun's out and the light's out and you just wake up because you feel that energy. And I felt it through him. And then I went to university and I'd talk to him and I'd meet him in the summers and Christmases, but I just decided, I was like, I wanna do this because I'd met someone who I felt had emotional and mental mastery in a way that I'd never seen before. And so when I went out there and whether it was the meditation training or whether it was the simplicity training of the lifestyle or whether it was the teachings and the values that you had to live by. I just got so, I got so much from it that I honestly believe that anything that I'm good at doing today is because of what I learned during that time.

And so anything I'm good at today is because of that.

Do you think that you found what he had?

Yeah, I believe so. And I would say that.

Or has.

Yeah. And I still see him every year. And he still has it. Yeah. It's like swag.

Like it doesn't go away. He still has it. And yeah, definitely, definitely. I got a glimpse into it. Obviously he's been doing it for, you know, nearly 30 years.

And I only did it for 3, but you still get to a glimpse of it and you get an experience of it. So you know that it exists. And I think that's half the battle too, like even with your sobriety, it's like you just need to know it exists. And then you're like, wow, there's this other side. And even though it's a challenge and even though I'm still trying to be more mindful every day, and I'm still working on myself because it's, I know it's an

ongoing thing.

And I take a lot of friends and people I know on retreats there because just a couple of years ago I took someone that I love to 1 of the caves in Rishikesh. So 1 of the things I love about caves is that they're equally dark and silent. So it's almost like the first time, like we could be silent in this room and it would be silent, but the silence of a cave is just different. And so when you go in then you can't see anything either. So you can't even see yourself.

So you're so deep into the cave that there's no light from the mouth of the cave anymore.

There's no light from the mouth of the cave.

Oh, I don't know about

that mate, that would really stress me out. No, you hold hands.

Right, right, yeah.

You don't hold hands. But it's just, it's 1 of those experiences that you actually get to experience real stillness and real silence and real, real disconnection from everything around you. And then you can actually listen to yourself.

Yeah, it's interesting. I would love to do something like that. Something that I find myself doing a lot is if I see a beautiful landscape or something, I will try and see if I can find an angle of it where there's nothing manmade in the view. Cause you know what it's like, like you see a beautiful hill or something and there's a telephone pole in the middle of it or a lamp post or something. So doing something like that, where there is nothing but just Mother Nature and the silence and being with yourself.

I'm obsessed with nature, It's like 1 of my biggest passions. I'm absolutely like this new our planet show has just come out 1 sitting I've done the whole thing So I would love to do something like that. So next time you go in

yeah No, where's where's the place I love nature too. I just took my me and my wife just went to Bali.

Oh, I love Bali.

Yeah, and it was unbelievable. We went whitewater rafting and it almost felt like Jurassic Park. I was just waiting for a dinosaur head to pop out. And it was just beautiful. It was so lush.

It was so natural.

There were

these waterfalls everywhere. And another place that I've loved nature wise, India of course we mentioned, but Iceland.

I'd love to go to Iceland.

I got to go to Iceland a few years ago and my friend was filming a documentary out there and so I got to experience it with the documentary travellers and we went to a real glacier and we went to…

Amazing.

You know, and it was incredible to just, it was the first time I felt like I'd landed on another planet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just, I literally, I was like, this looks like nothing I've ever seen before in my life. Like I'm on another, like I could have, I could have gone into outer space and landed on

another planet. There's a reason why every single space film, Iceland is the first on the list for locations.

Oh, is that? I didn't know that.

I'm thinking Interstellar probably shot

in Iceland. I went to the glacier, they shot it.

So I'm sure all of those films, cause you could do Mars, you could do Venus all in, you know, in Iceland. I would love to go. I don't know, we were thinking about doing some climbing and I'm not sure about how I feel about glaciers and walking across them and just falling and never being found. Yeah, we walked across them and obviously there were teams there. Sure.

And then they had an expert and they went down into the glacier, like they went into 1. And it was really scary because while we were walking on the glacier, we've got the, I forgot what those little boots are called, the ones with the kind of like... The little prongs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I forgot what they're called. But anyway, we had those on and...

Crapons. Crampons.

Crampons. Okay, crampons. Thank you for that, Jack. And so we're wearing these crampons and literally it was like 3 steps further and you would have fallen and you don't see it. And you would never be found.

And you would never be found. Ever. And you would never know. And it would be like that movie, what's it, 126 Hours? Yeah.

Where the guy had to swarf his own arm through.

126 Hours, mate, in 10 minutes the ice would just... Yeah, no, that's a bit too far for me.

Well, if you went with a group of, you know, experts and all the rest of it. Yeah, but you've seen the documentary. Sometimes the experts go out and it's a 1 way story. They don't ever come back, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, you got, you got to be careful. I agree. I agree. I'll show you some videos later though, because it was pretty. I would

love to,

yeah, please. It was pretty spectacular. It was really amazing. No, I love that with your journey with Sobriety. And again, the other thing, we were talking about this earlier, going back to it was you decided to take a break from acting because you were doing this role, it was really tough and challenging.

And you're like, you need some time. And again, you were saying that that was misconstrued. And I just, before we dive into why you needed to take a break and what was challenging about it, I just wanted to just, if you wanted to give context to that, and you don't have to, but if you wanted to clarify what you meant and what was going on there.

It's only a break from acting because I'm an actor. It's not like the acting itself. I just have been so lucky that in my life I've been working so much. I just wanted to take a break. I just wanted to be in 1 place for a while.

I wanted to be with my friends, be with my family, move into my house. So it wasn't necessarily, oh my God, I need to have a break from acting because it's too much. I just needed to have a break from traveling and working. And also I've done so much of my growing up on the road. I needed to do a lot of growing up at home, paying my water bill, paying my council tax and sorting out my bins and all that sort of stuff that they don't teach you at school, which I think there should be a lesson.

I think there should be a lesson at school that's called life, which is like laundry, basic cooking. Like I didn't realise you have to pay for your water. I just thought that was a luxury of living in England. The water comes out the sky and then it comes out your tap. I was so behind on my water bill.

I didn't realise. I'm up to date now, don't worry. So yeah, I just wanted to take this break and it's a shame again, talking about the press and how they can spin things. It's a shame that this year off has come after this incredibly hard job and that they kind of ran with this idea that yes, the show did break me and yes, it was difficult, but I could have gone back to work. I was always planning on taking this break after this job.

So thank you for giving me the time to sort of clarify that. I am loving having time off and going back to work is something that isn't really on my radar yet. I'm just loving being with my family and my friends and enjoying the fruits of my labor a little bit and traveling and seeing the world. Because we get to see the world for work, but it's different. Going off of your own accord and seeing these places and meeting people is what I love.

I'm very social, which is 1 of the things I found so difficult about giving up alcohol is because I was like, that's my key to my social life. And then I realized I was like, no, you're just actually naturally a really social person. The alcohol is just an additive to that. So get rid of it. So yeah, so my, my, my year off has been amazing.

I'm loving it. I'm 6 months, 7 months into it now. I have a job to go to, but you know, obviously we're going through this writer's strike right now. Yeah. We're unsure as to where we are.

I'm hoping that, you know, the writers can make a deal and will be looked after as they should be because it'd be great to get back to work, but I'm in no rush. I'm really loving some time at home.

Yeah, because how old are you now?

27.

Yeah, and so if you've been working since you were 9 or at least later on into your teens. I think people forget that. And I coach personally a lot of musicians who go on tour a lot. Sure. And I just finished a 40 city world tour for my second book.

And we did like 40 cities maybe in like

75, 80

days maybe. Like it was intense. And we went all over the world. So we did like 15. I've

never done anything like that.

Yeah, so we did 15 cities in the US and then 25 cities around the world. Wow. And so we did everyone from Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Melbourne. We did 3 shows at the Sydney Opera House, Brisbane, did Singapore, did 5 shows in India, did Dubai. Wow.

And it was amazing. I had 1 of the best experiences of my life. At the same time, I was reflecting on my music clients who have to do 100, 150 shows. Mm-hmm. A lot of them pull out of doing their tours, a lot of them announce, kind of like you're saying I took a break.

A lot of them will announce and say, you know what guys, I can't finish, I can't do it anymore. And it's really interesting because I messaged some of them straight away saying I always could understand why you needed that. Now I actually have actual empathy for you.

100%.

Because now I'm on the road and I can see how displacing it is. Sure. And I'm older and I have a certain set of skills that help me with that based on my monk life and all the rest of it. But I can imagine if you've been touring since you were 15 years old, which is what a lot of these artists have done,

Yeah.

You've, like you just said, you grow up on the road. Sure. And then all of a sudden you're like, well, who am I and who are my friends and what is my life? And now everyone that I pay is my friend and that's the only friends I have. And so it's really interesting how when you get a little glimpse into someone's life.

And then on my, the last show I had was in Barcelona. I love Barcelona. Yeah, it was amazing. The night before my last show, Live Nation, who was doing my show there, they also do Coldplay's tour. And they were like, do you want to come to watch Coldplay?

I was like, I'd love to watch Coldplay. So, on the night before to watch Coldplay, it was unbelievable. They did 4 sold out shows of 65, 000 people each night in Barcelona. And I went to watch the fourth night and Chris Martin and the crew were just unbelievable. Yeah.

And then I found out it was the 89th show and I was thinking, gosh, like it is so hard. Like it's just so hard and all their families are with them and traveling with them and all the rest of it. And so I want to touch on that with you as well, that Walk us through, because I've talked about this with actors offline, and I don't think I've fully done it online. And so if you're willing to go there, I'd really appreciate it. When you're playing a role, I think as a viewer, we massively underestimate how hard acting is, especially when the role is the kind of role that you're playing in the crowded room.

I think we just underestimate as a viewer, and I'm fortunate enough to know enough actors offline where I've had these conversations before, whether it's people who do method acting or whether it's people who, you know, really try and get into character. Like you always hear about the stories of like how Jared Leto, when he was becoming the Joker, was sending people rats and human feces in their mail. Like literally life. I tell

you what, if you send me human feces in my mail, there'd be trouble. I wouldn't be putting up with that.

You and Jared Leto in a boxing match.

Yeah, there'll be a boxing movie then.

But you know, that idea of like, I think as viewers, we don't really... It's what I'm saying is like, when I went on tour, I was like, I get it. I get it now. As viewers, we don't get it because we don't really hear about the deep process that actors go through of getting into a role, playing someone with multiple personalities. Like, you know, I don't know, is that tough or is that not, am I getting it wrong?

And that's not actually the tough part.

You're definitely not getting it wrong. I think it's just different. It's case by case, you know. There are people like Jared who dive into their roles and they do things like sending people dead rats and stuff like that and they think that that's what they need to do. I've always been really good at separating my onset emotions from my personal life emotions.

As a young kid I used to really heavily rely on my personal emotions to get them to come across on screen and I just found it really unhealthy. I just found that like the line between my life and my character's life would be blurred and ultimately at the end of the experience of making the film I would be a very different person but not because of my experiences as Tom it would be because of my experiences as my character. So I decided very early on to find certain techniques and certain ways to get into those emotions from a sort of technical point of view. I never sit on set and think about my mom getting sick or never speaking to my brothers again or something like that. I never blur the lines with my personal life and my work life.

I always leave work at work. There are jobs like The Crowded Room that are particularly taxing. Getting to those emotions on a daily basis is really difficult and really tiring. But, you know, it's probably somewhat like Coldplay on their 80 night show. You just dig your heels in, you realize you've got a job to do, we're all wonderfully well paid, there are people that work far harder for far less.

I recognize how lucky I am, so I'm like, if I need to cry today and tomorrow and the next 50 days in a row, I'll do so. Yes, it's difficult, but I think your question, I'm probably the worst person to ask that because I think I have like a really healthy outlook on how I achieve my emotions on set. But I have worked with people that shut their bedroom door and just dive into the character and are pouring through the script every night and are in character all the time. And I admire them. I don't necessarily think it's the healthiest way to go about it, but yeah, I've always been really strict on myself to leave my work at work.

Obviously I come home and read the script and do all of my prep work, but I'm not, I'm leaving the character at work because it's too, it's too much. Especially when you're playing a character like, like Danny from the crowded room, like you can't bring that into your personal life. It's tough.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean that, but I'm actually glad I asked it to you either way, because what I'm actually hearing is, you did it early on and you saw it wasn't healthy. Sure. And so you actually found another way.

Yeah. And it's really interesting because a lot of people may not have found another way, or that is their way and that is their method. And so it actually is interesting hearing it from your perspective because you're actually saying, yeah, I could have gone down that road. I could see the dangers with it. And obviously it depends on the roles too.

Sorry, you were going to say something.

No, it's just, it was my acting coach. Ben Perkins was my acting coach on my first film. And that film's really, really emotionally intense. And we started off by doing things like, can you imagine, you know, your mum passing? Or can you imagine things like that?

And I would cry instantly. And he was the 1 that actually recognized at a point, this is too much for this young kid to kind of take. So he devised these exercises where him and I could kind of have these fake arguments where I was as a 12 year old, oh, maybe I was older than that, 13 year old, could recognize that they were exercises and I would allow the emotion to kind of come from these kind of acting techniques, let's call it. So it was actually Ben that was the 1 that switched my, my mindset. I can't take credit for that.

Yeah. So you, you live in LA.

Yeah. So I moved to LA 5 years ago. And I moved to the state 7 years ago. So I was in New York for the first 2.

Whereabouts in New York were you?

I was on 23rd Street near Flatiron. Okay, nice. So yeah, it was good in Manhattan and moved with my wife. We've been married for 7 years, together for 10. Fantastic.

And yeah, it's just been really interesting, mate. It's like, did you ever end up moving? Did you ever live in LA at all or in the US at all? Or have you always been in London?

Sort of what we were talking about earlier, I've kind of lived all over the place. I've lived in LA, I've lived in New York, I've lived in Atlanta, you know, I've lived in Cleveland, which was amazing. So I really like spending time in the States. We just obviously created a room, we did a year in New York. We moved to Drive Echo, we started off in Midtown, and Midtown for me was a bit of a nightmare, it's where all the schools

are, so

I'd come home from work and I'd come outside and it's like all the biggest Spider-Man fans you've ever seen in your life, oh

my god! Yeah, it's like the worst planning ever. Yeah, it was a

nightmare. All

the kids, yeah.

We moved down to Tribeca to this amazing apartment which was really lovely. We were very lucky to be down there. But where, so how do you find LA?

I, so you know what it's really interesting because when I moved to New York first, and I loved it, I found New York to be just a bigger, crazier London, a bit more intense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love London. I'm a London boy through and through. I went to university here.

My family's still here. My wife's family's here. Everyone's here.

Amazing.

And so, but I enjoyed New York. My wife didn't love New York. And also at the same time, I started spending more time in LA for work. And my wife and I just fell more in love with each other when we were there. And so that's what it was that drew us there.

It wasn't really, everyone's always like, oh, was it career? I was

like,

to be honest, We went there for a month for work and we rented an apartment because we were going to be there for a month. And we're living together there and we just loved living with each other there. Home is where the heart is. Yeah, exactly. And so we were like, all right, we love it here.

Why don't we pack our bags and move across? And so we went back to New York. 2 months later, we moved over to LA. So it wasn't even, you know, and now we've been there for 5 years. And the truth is that I was really intentional when I moved somewhere.

So while I'm building my purpose and my work and my career, which I absolutely love what I get to do every day, and I could never have dreamed of doing what I do today. I'm super grateful. But at the same time, I was really intentional about building community and family. And it was like an actual like thought process. Where I was like, as well as you're always building the people you know at work, you're always building relationships, you're hiring employees and team members and everything.

At the same time, I've got to think about actually making friendships because in London, I've got all my mates. I've got my best man at my wedding. I've been mates with Raj for like 17 years. Like, I've got people around me, but in LA, I don't have that. I don't have any family, any friends.

I don't know anyone. And so I really made an effort. And now after 5 years, I can honestly say, you know, obviously not in a wonderful way, but the pandemic did help deepen some of those friendships because I was stuck with those people. So I only could go deeper. Made some really good friends.

Nice.

And so I feel happy there and I feel really connected to my purpose there. And at the same time, I love coming back to London. Right. And hanging out with my mates. And so I've, and me and my wife made a decision when we moved that we would never say we lived anywhere.

We would just be allowed to go wherever we wanted to go. So whenever my wife misses London, she's back on a flight to London, she'll come live here for 2 months and come back whenever she wants. Amazing. And it's the same for me. And that kind of like not having a rule around, you know, obviously we're lucky to have that choice.

That's an amazing luxury to have.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah. And, but yeah, III share the same kind of outlook on it. You know, I, I couldn't really say I live anywhere. I sort of

live where the work is

and when I'm not working, I'm either here or in LA and and I'm so lucky to be able to sort of call the world my home. I just go wherever the wind takes me.

I just... Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But that's glorious, man.

Yeah, man. Yeah, it's been good. It's been good for me. It's been good to me. And I think because of the work I do, it very clearly lets people know whether I'd connect them or not.

I feel like my work is so obviously 1 way. Sure. That it's very easy because not everyone wants this in their life. So it's kind of easy for people to be like, you know, I'm not going to make any effort with Jay, or I'm going to make lots of effort with Jay. And so it kind of makes it very easy because my work is me.

Do you find because of what you do and your skill set and your experiences and your life as a monk that people unload on you a lot. Yes. Like you might meet a new person and they're sort of saying, well, I'm feeling this way and I would love to try and get to a place of enlightenment. Like that must happen to you a lot.

Yes. Yeah. A lot. It can happen at the train station, it can happen on a plane, it can happen anywhere in the world, yeah.

And do you welcome those conversations? Do you like having those sorts of conversations?

So I think it depends where we are. Sure. And it depends who it is. And I always say to people as a disclaimer that I don't want to give you the belief that I can solve your life in 30 seconds. Yeah, right.

Or that I could ever solve your life for you.

Totally.

Just to be really clear. And I always say that to people because people are like, Jay, tell me what I need to do. And I'll be like, look, I just wanted to be fully aware that I'm happy to share some insights with you, but I don't have the power or gift or magical ability to transform your life. And nothing I can say in 30 seconds, I don't even want to take that responsibility on because we should really think about this. Like you should reflect on your life, like, especially when people are making big decisions where it's like, should I break up?

Should I move country? Should I do this? And I'm like, we're not solving this in 30 seconds. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. This is a bigger conversation.

Yeah, yeah. And I like people, that takes the pressure off me, but it also takes the pressure off them. Because a lot, it's not even about me. This is about the fact that that person needs to make a really important decision. And they're putting all the pressure of their life on that moment.

And actually, I'm saying, well, let's just take it off. And Here's a few things I want you to reflect and think about. And I know that will help you and you'll figure it out. And so, yeah, I welcome them because I appreciate that I don't feel that I'm the 1 holding space. And I don't believe that I'm the 1 who has the power to hold space.

I believe that the universe holds space. I believe that energetically that space is held for others. And I don't feel I'm this powerful human being who's, who's the 1 that everything rests on and has the answer to everything. And I think that's what allows me to be liberated from it. Where I'm not like, I also don't put the pressure on myself going, God, I better say the most perfect thing to this.

I better change this person's life. Yeah, and I can't. And I don't, and I think once upon a time, I probably did feel that way. Like when you're, when you're immature and you're an amateur in your work, you almost feel like you have to have all the answers. And now I'm like, you know what, I don't and it's fine.

And actually people really appreciate it when you just chat to them. And you know, and so yeah. And again, you know, I'm always happy to listen to someone when I can. Obviously there's sometimes when I'm like rushing late for a plane or trying to get into a car or whatever. And I can't, I can't do it.

Sure. But I always stop and say hello, give someone a hug and yeah. So I don't know if that answers your question. But

no, absolutely. It does. Yeah. I guess what's interesting, what you're saying about making decisions, something that I am constantly battling with myself is the inner battle between my gut and my brain.

I

know that sounds really weird. No, it's real. I go with my gut a lot. I'm very, very, I think a lot of the decisions I make in life are very sort of instinctual. I don't like to be bombarded with evidence and facts and all that sort of stuff.

I just like to feel a certain way about how I would like something to sort of transpire. It can be taking a film, accepting a script, doing a business deal, buying a house, like it's all sorts of different things. Through your monk life, did you feel like you would rely on your kind of inner instincts rather than like getting the evidence of this is going to make you this much money? Or if you do that, these are the risks. How do you, where do you stand with that sort of thing?

That was

the most poorly worded question, but you know why

I'm here. No, no, no, mate, mate, I think both, I think this has been such a conversation that that is what a question sounds like in a conversation. And I think I've asked you fairly poorly worded questions today as well, but I think that's what real communication is. Oh, we're having a chat. Yeah, that's fine.

Yeah, rather than like, mate, I've got question 1. Right. But no, I think I get what you're saying. And if I go on the wrong track, let me know. But living as a monk, you're trained to understand that everything exists in a certain mode.

And so I'll explain what that means. And so in the monk philosophy, there are 3 modes. And the modes are the mode of ignorance, the mode of passion, and the mode of goodness. And it's said that every decision, every thought, every action, every intention, every relationship can be in the mode of ignorance, mode of passion, or mode of goodness. And the mode of ignorance is where your relationships or any act is based on insecurity or fear.

So when you're doing something out of fear, or you're doing it out of insecurity, or you're doing it out of pressure, that's considered the mode of ignorance. And energetically, we all feel that, right? Like you know whether you're... I would know whether you were being forced to do this interview today out of some sort of fear or some sort of whatever it may be. The mode of passion is where you're doing something because you want a certain result.

You're doing it just for the reward. You're doing it just because it's going to get you what you want. It's going to get you to the goal. Okay. And so that's considered the mode of passion.

And again, energetically, you can tell that when someone has an agenda or Right, right, right. Someone wants something out

of you. I've come here to get my point across on something.

Totally. And then finally, the mode of goodness is the energy of like, I feel really at peace, I feel really at ease, this feels aligned with my values, and therefore it feels like the right decision. And so we were trained to sense energetically whether things felt like the mode of ignorance, mode of passion, or mode of goodness, which was a really helpful framework because sometimes things were really hard to just sense without knowing where it sat in terms of a characteristic.

That's so interesting.

And so that was really, really helpful at the time. And so I find that I'm the same as you where I make decisions energetically. But I think having moved into the real world again, I felt that I had to start getting used to understanding other elements. Kind of what you mentioned earlier, which I loved, which was like, I wish they had a class on life at school, because it's like you haven't paid your bill and you know, you know, there's football players not paying their taxes or whatever it may be. And like, that may be for different reasons.

But anyway, you get the point that there's some things that you just don't know. And so what I've started to do, and I've said this a few times, and that's why it's a little formula that I use. When I sit down with someone, whether it's business, whether it's relationships, whether it's work, even whether it's this, the first thing is always energy. That's my first gate that I, that I want to get through. And if I don't feel energetically aligned with someone, then already there's no future here.

Like it's not

going anywhere.

And then The next thing I look at is strategically, if it's business, so if it's personal, it's only energy, but if it's business, I look at, well, I like this person energetically. Do I think they're strategically aligned with where this has to go? Like, do I think they can actually implement this? Do I believe, because a lot of people have great energy, but they don't know how to implement anything. And then finally I look at, well, does the money align?

Does the monetary value align with the energy and strategy? That's been my business version of what I learned as a monk.

So what you're saying then, that is a combination of both. Correct. Allowing like your gut, your energy to kind of allow yourself to pursue further the opportunity. Yeah. And then you take a sort of mental look at it to be like, I'm accepting the opportunity from an emotional point of view.

Now I need to see if it makes sort of logical sense. Correct.

And if it doesn't, then we're going to stop there again. Right, right, right. Yeah, exactly. So I've found that more useful for me because I found that energetically, I can get excited about a lot of stuff. Yeah, I'm the same.

Yeah, and I'm that kind of person. And again, I never want to block that. Sure. At the same time, I think we have to become more selective with our opportunities and know when to say no and know how to manage stuff. And that's at least helped me.

Sure. So again, I'm not saying anyone has to live like that. I'm just, that's what it's like for me.

It's interesting. It's really interesting. I am very much like go off my gut. I'll tell you what, my mum is an unbelievable judge of character. And I think she might have, without knowing what you're talking about, where she can pick up on people's energies.

Because we can meet a new person as a family. We've met this new person. 3 of us could love this new person and another 3 could not like this new person. And my mom will be like, no, no, don't like that person. And then within 6 months, all of us like, do you remember that person

that we were really good friends with for

a little bit. She's really got a keen eye for people that we would get along with. Yeah, she's amazing like that.

Mums are like that. Now that you say that, all my mates who let me down when I was a teenager, my mum called it

out every time.

And I was like, mum, no, they're my best friend. I'm never going to leave them. They're like a brother to me. And then like 7 months later, the person stabbed you in the back. And then you're like, oh mom, like, you know.

But the good thing about moms is they wouldn't judge you for it.

Yeah, they're

like, look, I told you, but you have to make your own

mistakes. Yeah, Exactly, exactly. But it's interesting that you've been able to hold on to that. And I love that. Do you feel like, you were asking me about moving to LA and I think, what have you felt, and there's a part of you that's obviously wanting to be back in Kingston, be back to who you are.

Have you felt that there's been parts of yourself that have been challenged. I don't feel sitting with you today that, you know, I don't know you before, I don't know you after, I've only met you today, so I can't judge who you are or what you enjoy. All I can say is that when I'm sitting with you today, I feel like I'm sitting with an authentic individual and your energy comes across very easily. Do you feel like you've had to hold on to that at times with opportunities, challenges, the industry, or is that all stuff that we kind of make up in our heads and it's actually just be yourself and you're fine?

I really don't know the answer to that question. I've definitely walked away from a lot. And I think had I not walked away from certain situations, let's just put it at that, I would be a very different person today.

I've

been really good at keeping in touch with my friends, keeping my family close, listening to the lessons, not getting caught up in the Hollywood hype. Like I really am a massive fan of making movies, but I really do not like Hollywood. It is not for me, the business really scares me. I understand that I'm a part of that business and I enjoy my kind of interactions with it. But that said, I am always looking for ways to kind of remove myself from it, to kind of just live as normal a life as possible.

Today, doing this is a very rare thing for me to do. Like in London, to come in and speak to someone about my life is something I would not typically do, but because I'm a fan of yours and I was keen to kind of hear what you had to say and chat to you today, I felt like this would be a safe space for me to do that. But yeah, I definitely think it has been an ongoing thought, which is don't lose yourself. I've seen so many people come before me and lose themselves and I've had friends that I've grown up with that aren't friends of mine anymore because they've lost themselves to this business. And I just am really, really keen to focus on what makes me happy, which is my family, it's my friends, it's my carpentry, my golf, the charity that my mom runs, Like that is the stuff that makes me really happy.

And that's the stuff that I should protect. My relationship is the thing that I keep most sacred. I don't talk about it. I try my best to keep it as private as possible. We both feel very strongly that that is the healthiest way for us to move on as a couple.

So I do try to keep as removed from it as possible. Like you'll never see me at an award show that I don't have to be at. I'm never going to a red carpet event that I'm not in the film of, you know, I don't want the attention when I don't need it. I love the spotlight. I love the pressure that comes with it.

Just watch that tennis documentary, Breaking Point.

I haven't seen it yet.

You got to see it. It's amazing. I never realized how brutal tennis was. I've always been a huge tennis lover. I am now absolutely in awe of what those athletes go through.

But there's a quote from Billie Jean King that's on the stand at her stadium in New York that says pressure is a privilege. And that is so true. Like, oh my God, feeling pressure on a daily basis in the capacity that we feel is such a privilege. I love feeling pressure. I feel like I thrive under pressure.

The best golf I've ever played in my life is when there are cameras around and people are watching. I just think that that is a real amazing thing to be able to experience. So I enjoy it while I can. And then when it becomes a bit much I kind of become a bit of a recluse and I disappear, I come back to Kingston, I play golf, I play tennis, I hang out with my friends and my family, do the pub quiz and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, so it is something I actively try to do as I get older, it only gets easier.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I can relate to that where in my small way or in my world where a lot of my friends think like I'm in LA, like always at events, always at parties. I'm not. I'm like in bed by 9.30 PM. And I only live there because it works for me in the world that I do and what I do and I enjoy living in LA, but I don't live there for Hollywood and I think that's often the perception as well, where everyone's like, oh you're all Hollywood now and I'm like, well no not really, like I don't really go to all the events and gatherings and stuff unless I need to be there or I'm connected to a project.

So I relate to that. You mentioned a few things there, but if I had to ask you, Tom, when do you feel most yourself? Like when do you feel most connected And what are you trying to reconnect to if you're like, well, I know what it is, but I'm still figuring it out again.

I think when I feel most myself is to do with my relationships, I'm going to leave that and not talk about that.

Absolutely.

But I think the other thing, and this is such a stupid thing, but it's when I'm playing good golf, like there's something about how golf, golf is the most humbling sport in the world. It doesn't

matter who you are, doesn't

matter how much money you've got, how successful you are, golf will batter you no matter who you are. And I love, that's what I love about it. You know, it's such a leveling sport. I love going to a golf course and meeting new people that I've never played with before. Playing around a golf, I struggle when I don't play badly.

Like I've got a bit of a temper and like you're supposed to have 14 clubs in your bag. I currently have 9 and you can probably guess why. But I, I just love being outside. I've always been an outdoorsy person. I love being on the golf course.

I love my mates. They all love playing golf. There's just something about the challenge of shooting lower than your lowest score that really kind of takes my mind off of the work. The interesting thing about golf is that you could be having a terrible day, you could be really upset about something, and if you play really well, you completely forget about it. If you play really badly, you then are playing badly because of what's happening outside of golf.

It's like a really weird kind of catch 22, I guess.

Yeah. But I love it. I think when I'm playing good golf is when I feel most like myself.

Yeah. Wow. That's a, that's a, that's a unique answer, but I get it.

Yeah. It's weird.

Yeah. I've only ever played golf like twice in my life.

Right.

And I totally get the point of how humbling it is, is horrendous. No matter how quickly you pick up other things in life, golf is not 1 of those things that you pick up that easily.

Oh mate, you can sign the biggest deal of your life and go out to play golf to celebrate and it will ruin your day. Like absolutely ruin your day.

Don't go out to play golf to celebrate. No, never go out to celebrate.

No, crazy. Do you play, do you still play any sport?

I love playing football when I'm back here. Okay. So that's 1 of the things my mates know that when I'm back in London,

we're going

to play a game of football.

Where do you play?

Well, we'll just, we, we will just play on like A7A side pitch or A5A side pitch like close to Northwest London, which is where most of my mates are. So like Stanmore, Edgware, Watford, That's like where all my main mates are. And so we'll just go rent a pitch, kick a ball about. I'm not any good anymore, but I still got the full kit and the socks. Yeah, yeah, love it.

I always look dressed in a fresh bro.

I've actually got Neymar's kit like from him. Oh wow. You best believe I'll show up to Fiverrside in his full kit.

I love it. I love it. Is it signed by him too?

No, it's not. No, no, no.

Yeah, that's just his kit.

We went on a lads holiday to Portugal recently to play golf. And at the resort we were staying at, the people were so nice. They said, let's have an England versus Portugal football match. It was like, I think there was 8 of us and there was a bunch of Brits that were working at the resort. So they kind of joined our team and we literally did England versus Portugal.

It's a full size pitch. We did 60 minutes, 30 minutes each way. I'm fit. I train every day. I absolutely love my fitness.

I really, really like I'm into it. By the end, I could not make 5 paces without my legs cramping up. They are so fit, these football players. It's unbelievable. And we won.

And it's so funny how the first 10 minutes of the game was really friendly, like soft fouls, sorry mate, like your free kick. And by the end it was savage. It was really intense.

Wow. At least you won though.

We won. I got an assist. It was actually a glorious assist as well actually. I just, I pinged the ball over the top. My brother made a run and it bounced and he managed to get his foot to it and he chipped the keeper and scored.

It was-

But there's no footage.

There's no footage. No proof. Yeah, no proof.

Yeah, no proof.

I sometimes think when the whole no proof thing, like we had the craziest experience of my life the other day, I'll tell you about it. Because our lives are so crazy, like there's no, why would I lie? But the other day, we went swimming with killer whales in Mexico. I said the other day, it was last year. And it was 1 of the most humbling experiences of my life.

There's no proof of it. There's no evidence because it was so off the cuff. We weren't planning on doing it. So most people I tell are like, you definitely didn't do that. But we were in Mexico and we were on a boat and we just so happened to see this pod of orca.

Jack, my security guard, thought it'd be a good idea to jump in. He jumped straight in, flippers on, goggles on, and we were driving to keep up with the whales because they were kind of following our boat. So by the time Jack had jumped in, he was like this, he was like a hundred meters away and you could see him and the whales were like swimming around him. So I'm starting to freak out because he's a good friend of mine.

And he's your security guy. And he's my security. I'm like, we got to get back to the hotel bro.

So I said to the guy like, excuse me sir, can you turn around and go and get my friend? Because we now can't see him anymore. Like he's gone. We found him, we got him back in the boat and he sort of said like, lads, you have to get in there. It's unlike anything you've ever seen before.

My brother Harry's like Googling whether or not it's safe to swim with them. And it's sort of the general consensus online is don't go swimming with killer whales. You can. There's never been a recorded tack in the wild, but they are wild animals.

There's no 1 to report. They're as big as a bus. And also Jack's giving it like, don't worry Tom, I'll be there. I'll look after you. I'm like, Jack, what are you going to do bro?

Like what's this whale decides to eat me? So anyway, we put the flippers on, put the goggles on, we find the whales, they're sort of interacting with the back of the boat, they're clearly curious and I just thought like, I guess it goes back to what you're saying, the mode of ignorance. I just was like, I'm gonna try it and see what happens. I jumped in, my brother jumped in, Jack jumped in, we kind of came together. We're 30 miles out of the coast, so it's literally like dark blue water, nothing below us.

And to my relief, the whales had gone, we couldn't see them. So I'm sort of thinking, oh, well, that's actually a bit of a touch at least I can say I jumped in and they have gone but then Jack said look down and we looked down and it came from beneath us. And what has been such an interesting experience for me was as soon as I saw the whale, I wasn't scared anymore because I could just tell that it wasn't gonna eat me. I don't know how to explain it, but you could just see from his body language. I remember it so vividly, it swam up to us.

It was maybe 10 meters below us. And it was kind of motionlessly sort of just looking at us. And then it kind of rolled on its back. It did this weird thing where it kind of put his head like this and you could see its eye. Like we were having this crazy like moment and then it just swam off and it was gone.

And then for 3 hours afterwards, I couldn't speak. I had the biggest adrenaline dump. I just basically was asleep. But it was such an amazing experience to sort of meet the apex predator of the world and it kind of look at you and just swim away. Most people don't believe me because

I believe

there's no evidence, but it was, I think about it now and then it's not so funny as well. I see these, I like our planet, there's more footage of orcas hunting and another way in which they hunt. There is no way I would do that again.

There's no way I'd get in there again. But yeah, it was amazing. Hearing you explain it is like, you're so present. Yeah. Like you can tell that you're just, you were so present in that moment.

Like you stop thinking about like, oh, well, you know, if I tell this after that no one's gonna believe me or whatever it is, you're just like, wait a minute. Yeah. You know, nature makes you present like that. And that's what I love about nature

is it's completely unbiased as well. Like if that whale wanted to have a snack, then you know, it's not looking at you going, Oh no, but that's a famous person. I've got to leave him alone. Or it just, you are at 1 with mother nature. We're in the middle of the ocean.

There's nothing we could do. And we just were able to enjoy it. Somewhat maybe like being in the cave, like you were saying. It was just about us and this whale. My brother and I were holding hands, but then as soon as it presented itself to us, any stress just dissipated.

And it was just this unbelievable experience. And it was so leveling, it was so humbling, that it makes me feel like I can take on certain things. So it was honestly, even thinking about the experience now, my heart is racing.

Yeah, I can imagine.

Yeah, it was wild. It was

a cool experience. That's unbelievable. That's an incredible experience. And it is different from the cave though, because I do think it's different when you're with another living being. Sure.

And so that's what I found, like my closest experience to what you're talking about is, I went trekking with, well looking for mountain gorilla in Rwanda last year. Have you been? Oh, that's top of my list.

I would love

to do that. Okay, yeah, we should do it. I would do that again any day because it was unbelievable. So you're not, again, these gorillas are not like in a park or something. They're mounting gorilla, they're in their world.

And you go and look for them, and there's no tagging devices or any tech. There's people who have watched the gorilla for so many years that they know where their droppings are, they know where families hang out, they know what their routines are. So depending on what time you're going out, there's someone who's just around them who's calling their friend, calling your guide saying, walk this way, walk that way. This is where you got to go, right. Exactly, just to make it very, very clear that, you know, the gorilla's being treated very well.

So you're literally looking around, and you could be on the lookout for them for like 2 to 6 hours. You may not find them. You're just hiking. So you're like, I love that.

You might not find them.

You might not find them. So we found them in 2 hours. 1 group that we heard about, because you go in smaller groups of like 10. The other group that we are friends with, they took 8 hours to find gorillas, but they saw them too. And when I went, I was kind of like, oh, we're going to see 1 gorilla, whatever, like they're going to be far away.

Like I was a bit skeptical because I didn't know how it was going to be. And it was incredible because we looked around for 2 hours and I'll show you the video afterwards, but we got and we just saw them like hanging out, kind of like how I'm looking at everyone here, just hanging out still. And then all of a sudden they all started walking together and there was a family of 20 gorillas. And you've got 2 silverbacks that are like, you know, They're like, their fists are like, you know, just huge. They zap you and you're gone.

Yeah, exactly. And it was really interesting because the guides who were there with us, they said to us that when you go close to them, kind of like, and this is why I remembered it and why I'm telling you, it's because when you were talking about the way the whale looked at you, and it was kind of like, you knew it wasn't gonna eat you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so they were saying that when you get close to these gorillas, the only thing you can't do is you can't touch their kids and you can't touch them. Yeah. And so you can't drop something near their kids and then try get it back because they'll think you're trying to harm their kids. Totally. But what they recommended was they said you had to make this sound when you see them.

And this sound means we come in peace. And so the sound was, so that's, you have to make that sound. I was all right, this is some Disneyland stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever.

Sounds like non-sense.

I'm not believing this stuff. Like whatever. Like I was all right, I'm going to play around with it. And so I'm walking around, so we go to the gorilla and we get close to them and I made that sound because we were told they were like, make that sound. And then the gorilla did it back and it was just unbelievable.

And then there was this 1 moment where we were walking and we were literally surrounded by gorilla. And that's when I was like a bit scared because they were like all around us. And like literally if they ran at you, like I'm done.

Yeah, there's nothing you can do.

Nothing, nothing you can do. And so we're walking, they're walking around us And this massive silverback came up. So my business manager was with me as well. And so he's there. He's like my godfather in LA.

Like he really takes care of me. So very close to him. And so this big, this big gorilla that walks behind him and I'm looking at him going, oh man, like he stopped and we're all looking at him because he's got this massive silverback behind him and we're all like, how do we tell him to move? And the guy's like, just be still, like just, you know, be really present, like you can't freak out. And the gorilla just went, wow, behind him and moved out the way and just walked past.

And it was just, it was that same presence that you're feeling that I felt with them. And that's what I mean, the living, being with another living being is, is spectacular. So.

Do you think that level of ease comes from the helpless nature of being in the presence of an animal that could do to you whatever they want to. Like, I think part of the reason why I felt so calm when the whale had come up was because There was nothing we could do should it go sideways. And I think being almost, finding that kind of inner peace of like, I've made my mind, this is the choices I've made. I'm here now. There's nothing I can do.

It's almost like you should make peace with your choices, I guess.

Yeah. I don't know. No, no, no. I think that's, I think you've actually taken it somewhere really beautiful, mate. I think for me as well, it's humility.

Yeah, that's what- And like when you, when you meet someone new, rarely are we humble. Sure. We often feel the pressure to be like, oh, look at who I am. Or like, you know, or we're trying to create, even if it's not out of ego, there's a certain sense of like wanting to gain people's like and respect. Yeah.

And you want to impress people.

No matter what I do, this whale or gorilla is not going to like or respect me. So I better just be humble about it and at peace as you said.

And it levels you.

And it levels you and it allows that human being, that being also, of course, it's not, you know, of course, we're not recommending that you just go into these places. I

wouldn't, yeah.

Yeah, but the idea being that I do think there's something magical about nature where humility is kind of nature's way. And it is that what you're saying that when you're at peace with your choices and you're at peace with here we are, here I am, I can't do anything and guess what? It's okay.

Right. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's somewhat sort of like I've made a decision. If the decision is a mistake, you got to live with

it. You

made it.

Yeah. I want to talk about sports because I was thinking, so I play a lot of tennis, play a lot of football, play a lot of pickleball now. You play a lot of pickleball. Because that's become a thing. But I'm massively more into paddle.

I don't even.

I love paddle tennis.

I love paddle. Paddle tennis is so fun. So I want that to blow up in the US, but it's not going to. So when I went to Dubai and I went to Miami and I went to Madrid, because they're big in Spain. Mate.

Are they playing it here?

Yeah. My local tennis club has got 2 courts. You can't book them. They're so sold out. Honestly, paddle tennis.

I love tennis. I think tennis is 1 of the best sports in the world. And I think that, you know, they are the highest performing athletes, some of in the world, but it's really hard tennis. Like I find, unless I'm playing with someone who's much better than me, I don't play well. Like I really, I need to be chasing someone.

Paddle tennis is so social. It's easy to have great rallies. You still get the satisfaction of really smacking a ball. Because pickle is, it's all about placement and trying to kind of 1 up your opponent. Whereas- You're

playing at the kitchen and just doing the dink.

Yeah, exactly. Why is it called a kitchen?

I have no idea. So I play pickle like paddle right because I'm I'm like no why

I do like pickle but paddle tennis

is amazing next time yeah paddles paddles 1 of my favorite favorite I was in Dubai with a client for work for months, a couple of years back. I played it every day for 3 months.

That's great exercise.

Yeah, it's the best workout, the most fun, like time just flew, it's amazing. But I was bringing it back to sports because I was saying, you know, You personally tried to recruit Mbappe for Tottenham.

I did, yeah.

And I just thought that was amazing because I was like, I've never seen this ever happen before where, you know, someone's using their clout in the right way.

Listen, I saw him, I'm a mad Tottenham fan, and I just thought, now's my chance. And he said, no, the deal didn't go through, no signing bonus for myself. That was a crazy trip that going to the Ballon d'Or. We were there for Spider-Man, Spider-Man was coming out. I'm not really sure how that was promo for Spider-Man but like it was part of our trip for some reason.

But it was amazing meeting these players and I admire them so much.

It's incredible when you can notice other athletes and other greatness. And I see that at the top. We've talked a lot today about, and you're really good at this. Like you really, I feel like you're quite tuned into like admiring and observing greatness and like the 1% and trying to figure out what they're doing differently. And I think that's 1 of the things I've definitely seen of the 1% is that there's a humility in that they have the ability to appreciate other people's greatness and skills and values and purpose.

Like they're not looking at it going, I'm the best of all time. Sure. There's a part of that. They may have to say that for the cameras or they may have to say that before they go on the pitch. But actually, if you talk to them and you ask them about someone else, they'll be like, yeah, best, best player I've ever seen.

Like they're incredible. And so who did you admire growing up in acting? Who do you admire today? Like who have been the people that, and maybe on a mindset level or maybe on a, or a performance level as well.

There are definitely performances of people that I look up to, there are the types of careers of certain actors that I really admire. There are also like the types of lives that certain people lead that I really admire and that I really aspire to sort of be like. I tend to let all of my admiration go towards athletes. I'm just so blown away by what they can do under the pressure that they're under. Me as an actor, I realized that my job is a high pressure job because it reaches millions of people But that said, there are so many people that help me get to where I need to be.

I get picked up, someone makes me breakfast, someone writes the words that I'm supposed to say, someone chooses my costume, someone does my hair and makeup, someone sets the camera up. Ultimately, I walk onto set and I do my bit, but I'm a small part in a massive machine. But when you look at someone like Djokovic or Federer or, you know, this new Alcaraz, you know, or the golfers or Lewis, Lewis is slightly different because Formula 1 is so much about the team and the car and all that sort of stuff. They have to do it themselves at a certain point. There's only so much help they can get, but then when they walk onto that court for the first time, when they walk into the ring or into the octagon, it's them by themselves.

They're under that amount of pressure. It's up to them whether they deliver or not. And I just have always been admiring of seeing some of the greats lose their win streak and come back even stronger. I've always really been an admirer of people that are able to do that. I think it's a folly when you see these win streaks of 50 and 0 and all that sort of stuff.

And you're like, well, that to me isn't what a champion is. A champion is someone who had it all, lost it all and got it right back again. Tyson Fury story is a crazy 1. I'd love to see AJ come back and be on top again, because I'd love to be alive to witness that legacy that he would leave behind. You know, I feel sorry for him what happened to him when he sort of seemed to really lose it a little bit in the ring when he took the microphone.

And I'd love to see him back on top and to have some clarity and to be a champion again, because I admire him as an athlete. So I save most of my admiration for athletes and musicians. I love musicians. I see someone like Ed Sheeran, 80, 000 people in the palm of his hand. I think comedians are equally as talented.

The ability that they can just go on stage and make people laugh, that is terrifying. Actors for me, because it's what I do, it's like, meh, you know?

Yeah, yeah. I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. And at the end of the day, it's just, it's taking what you can from what you aspire for, right? Like you can take something from all these people.

And what I love about it, some of these people you know, some of these people you don't, but I always say to people who are listening and watching that you can be mentored by people you've never met. And I think that's a really important skill to gain because I think we live in a world right now where somewhat access has become easier. And we always think we need access to people directly in order to learn from them, but you don't know everyone you've just mentioned, even though you may know a couple of them closely. And same with me, like I was really fortunate, you know, growing up as a teenager, I got introduced to like Martin Luther King's work and Malcolm X's work. And I was reading crazy stuff at that age, but it had a massive impact on my mindset.

I never met all those people and obviously would never have got the opportunity to do that, but I feel mentored by them without ever having sat in the same room as them. Because you study like how they made decisions and you study what they said and what they wrote.

What they stood for.

What they stood for and how and the parts that you don't hear through history. The parts that were actually more difficult. Of course. The parts where they weren't the perfect hero. Right.

And so all of that kind of stuff. But Tom, before we go to the final 5, you've been so gracious with your time today. I have to ask you if you want to clarify the Harry Kane situation. Because I'll tell you what, the reason why I say this is I had the dream. So I'm a Manchester United supporter.

Everyone in my community knows that very well. I have always had the dream that Harry Kane, when Wayne Rooney retired, Harry Kane was going to come to Manchester United. Okay. And he was going to follow in the footsteps of all the great England forwards that have played at Manchester United. That didn't happen.

No, it

didn't happen. I'm still holding on to that dream, but you want him to go somewhere else. Well, listen, Listen,

let me just clarify, right? I love Harry Kane. I love Human Son. Human Son is my favorite football player. He is a hero.

I love Tottenham. I'm a big Tottenham fan, but I just, I know that those players could thrive and have the best careers ever somewhere else. I just want to see, I want to see Harry lifting a trophy and I want to see Son there by him and, and I just don't think that's...

You're rooting for the individual.

Yeah. I'll always be a Tottenham fan. You know, I love being a Spurs fan. My brother Harry and I, you know, we've really pondered over it. But I just, you know, Harry Kane's 1 of the best strikers in the world and he would fit into almost any team and I'd love to see him on top.

And interesting question, do you think he would have had a similar season to Haaland had he gone to City?

Ooh, ooh, that's a, I personally think.

Because I think Harland's amazing.

I think Harland with his age, his strength, and his mentality, You know what's crazy about Harland is, I saw this interview, and you know, obviously it hurts me to say it, but, City and all, but, when Harland did this interview, he just scored like, can't remember which game it

was.

He scored like 5 goals that game, and he was like, I should have had 7. And the interviewer was like, come on though, take some credit. Like you scored 5 goals. And he was like, yeah, I'm happy with that. But he goes, you know, there were a couple of assists that should have gone in.

And I thought that mentality. Mm-hmm. That's a winner's mindset. That's a winner's mindset. I was like, he was, he knew exactly which opportunities he missed.

And I was like, so I think it's an age thing. I think it's a strength thing. I feel like Harlan's kind of like, I've always compared Harlan to like Ivan Drago. Like he was made in the lab. Right, right, right.

He was made, like he was manufactured to be this incredible talent. He

is incredible.

I think City's good with like, he admits, like he scores a lot of tap-ins and I think that's his game.

Yeah, but man, there's no pictures on a scorecard, you know.

No, no, in a good way.

Yeah, totally.

I'm saying like he's been built in that way and he played that way. I don't know if Kane's a tap-in guy. Like his goals have generally been a bit more diverse in that sense. Magic.

Yeah. Magic is the way I would describe Kane. Yeah. No, I love him. And obviously it's a typical thing of like the press are out saying, Oh, Tom Holland's begging Kane to leave.

I'm not begging him to leave. I love that he's at our club because I'd be terrified to see where we'd be without him. But I just love to see him have the career I know he could have.

What do you think of Jude Bellingham to Madrid?

I think that's a great move. I love that.

You just want everyone to do it.

I love that. And what's interesting is that all of my friends in Spain are from Barcelona. I have 1 friend from Madrid. I've always been a big Barca supporter because I used to go to Barcelona all the time as a kid. I had a few weekends where I'd say to my mum and dad, I'm going to my friend's house and I would go to Barcelona.

I'm going to my friend's house and I would go to Barcelona. I'm going to my friend's house and I would go to Barcelona. How did you pull that off, mate? She's sneaky, bro. If I told my Indian parents that, I was like, they'd know the dial tone straight away.

Mate, I got caught. My mum called me up and

was like, where are you? I was trying to tell her I

was at my friend's house. She said, no, you're not because I'm here. And I was in Laramblas in Barcelona. But I just love players. I think Jude Ben-Yim is amazing.

And, you know, I just love to see what he could do there. I think it's the thing for me is I love legacy I love seeing what players can do I'm less about the teams. That's what I love about tennis or golf you know it's not about the team it's about the player so I would just love to see what he could do there and you know I'm sure 1 day we'll see England raise a trophy and we've got such a great young team and I admire them all. But yeah, I think it's a great move for him. He's only 19 or something like that.

It's insane, yeah, he's 19. I mean, that's wild. It's incredible. He's a

year older than my brother Paddy. That's mental.

Mate, you've been amazing today, honestly. This has been some of the most fun I've had in a long time. Yeah, me

too. Thank you, I appreciate

it. We ask everyone the final 5, and so these are the fast 5 questions, which means answers have to be 1 word to 1 sentence maximum. Okay. No more than that. Done.

Okay. And you don't have to write or spell them out. So no, no, no problem. That'd be

a long, it'd be a long segment.

Yeah, none of that. All right. So Tom Holland, these are your final 5. Question 1, what is the best advice you've ever received?

To turn your nerves into excitement.

I like that, that we've never had done on the show, I love that. All right, second question, what is the worst advice you've ever received?

Move to LA, get a marijuana license and buy a hot tub.

Who told you that? Mark Wahlberg. That's brilliant.

No, he told me that on a chat show, so I don't know if that was legit advice, but I didn't take his advice.

Okay, good. Who would you have been if you took that advice? Who knows? Who knows? All right, question number 3.

What's the first thing you do every morning and the last thing you do every night?

Make my bed is the first thing I do. And the last thing I do before I go to bed, admittedly, is I check my emails, which I shouldn't do, but that is what I do, yeah, it's bad.

Yeah, we asked that just to make you aware of what you need to change.

I do need to change that. Making my bed is a good start. I used to never do that. And now like my first thing I do is I make my bed. That's like my first challenge of the day.

It's a good, it's an easy 1 to get done.

Question 4. What's something you're trying to learn at the moment?

I'm currently taking golf lessons

and we see a trend it's not going very well. Where are you at at the moment?

The thing is with golf is that the golf swing is a very, very particular thing. So in order to get better, you do have to take quite a few steps backwards. I've taken maybe 25 steps backwards, but I will, I will benefit from it eventually.

Are you doing it every day?

Every day. Not lessons every day, but I practice every day.

I've always said that to my wife. I was like, I want to go away for a month and I want to get a trainer, I'm going to play golf every single day. I mean, I know a great teacher. Yeah, that's the only way. I had a really, so 1 of my clients took me to PXG in Arizona.

Yeah. Which is like this beautiful place, Bob Parsons' place. And I had a coach there for 2 days, and I was like half decent after 2 days, because the coach was so good.

Yeah, man. And when

I got back to LA, I tried to get a coach and I couldn't find a good 1. And then I had a coach that literally, he came highly recommended, but it didn't work out for me. He, he didn't let me take like 0.7 of a swing before he gave me feedback. And I was like, I just need to hit a few. Like I need to kind of just, and it was like every time I was about to hit the ball, I'd be like, nope.

Sure, sure, sure.

I was like, I just need to kind of like get a feel for it. And so.

The guy I go to is a guy called James Heath.

Okay.

And he does most of his teachings off of feel. So it's not about numbers. It's not about results. It's more about how do you feel? He calls it the feels.

So like I'm working on twisting my hips more in my backswing. And he will say to me, how does that make you feel like physically? Where do you feel the stretch? Where do you feel the pain? Where do you feel the pinch?

That's what I need you to feel. And I coming from a dancer's background, that's a really great way for me to learn because everything in dancing is about feel. So if you need a great teacher in London, James Heath

is fine. Thank you, shout out James Heath.

Yeah, shout out James Heath.

Fifth and final question. If you could create 1 law that everyone else in the world had to follow, what would it be?

I don't know. I don't know what 1 law would solve the most amount of problems. What would you say? Curious.

I'd probably go to something you said earlier, if I'm giving a genuine answer, like a real answer, is I really wish there was a life school. Oh, mate. Like, that would be it because I'm not saying that would solve all the problems in the world. No. But it would set people up.

And when I say life school, I mean emotional mastery. I mean- 100%. Ego mastery. I mean the ability to be kind and empathetic and vulnerable and compassionate and create safe spaces. I think a life school that taught you how to be nonjudgmental and noncritical of others without understanding them.

I think That's what I mean by life school. So not just the like paying taxes and bills and stuff, but the life school of like, well, what if we didn't have to live in a world where we just said everything we wanted to and did everything we wanted to and got away with it?

But I think the life lesson for me should be basic health and CPR and basic first aid training. It should be like you said, creating an environment at school where young people feel more comfortable talking about themselves, what they're going through, you know, things that might be happening at home or things that are happening at school. Like, I think that that would be an amazing way for us to be more expressive and more comfortable expressing. And again, like, I know I keep going back to it, but it's about what my show is about, which is you should feel empowered when asking for help. It should be something that you're proud of, like you're recognizing that you have an issue.

It might be an internal issue, it might be an external issue, but you are seeking help, which I think is very admirable.

Yeah, absolutely. I do encourage and recommend everyone go watch The Crowded Room. I personally have been loving it with my wife, honestly. I barely watch TV shows if I'm completely honest and it's because I like something that makes me think and reflect and entertain me at the same time. And I think it does a brilliant job of doing all 3.

Like it's gripping, I'm like trying to figure out what's going on next. At the same time I'm like, it's amazing watching you being able to be this very different character to what we know you as. Sure. And that's really impressive. So even on a performance level, I'm like, I'm forgetting that you are Spider-Man.

Nice. Right? That's the goal. That's how I watch movies where I'm like, can I forget who this person is? And, or are they playing a caricature of themselves obviously.

And with you I'm like I don't even think to think it's you. Right now I'm talking to you and I've been watching the show I'm like oh it's not in the same person. And that is really impressive on a performance standpoint.

So thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Thank you. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose.

Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve and parents and coaches have become more directive and trying to tell them how to behave versus teaching them how to behave.