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Speaker 1

00:00

-♪ ♪ -♪ -♪ ♪ Now, the last few weeks have been extremely busy, from the Iran deal, to Greece's economic meltdown, to Donald Trump saying, who gives a shit about what he says? It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. But in all the excitement, you may have missed 1 piece of news that got lost in the shuffle.

Speaker 2

00:21

President Obama tonight granting clemency to 46 non-violent drug offenders, the most in 1 day since the 1960s.

Speaker 1

00:28

Now that's fantastic, giving nearly 4 dozen prisoners who'd made mistakes a second chance at life. It's basically the criminal justice version of Top Chef's Last Chance Kitchen, but with the chance to walk free as the reward, rather than the opportunity to once again disappoint Padma with your risotto. -...

Speaker 1

00:47

This brings President Obama's total commutations to 89, and that's just counting the humans.

Speaker 3

00:52

Today I have the awesome responsibility of granting a presidential pardon to a pair of turkeys. You are hereby pardoned... From the Thanksgiving dinner table.

Speaker 3

01:04

-...may you have a wonderful and joyful life. -...of my bride.

Speaker 1

01:11

-... Just Look at that turkey's face. Even he thinks the annual turkey pardoning is pathetic. Look at him.

Speaker 1

01:19

Oh, just kill me. This is the worst thing that happened to me today and you just deep fried my cousin. AUDIENCE LAUGHS Presidential clemency has always been controversial. From George W.

Speaker 1

01:30

Bush commuting Scooter Libby's sentence, to Bill Clinton pardoning financier Mark Rich, to, and this is true, Abraham Lincoln pardoning a man convicted of attempted bestiality because the man was intoxicated at the time. The man in question, John Wilkes Booth. It's true. It's actually not true, but if it had been, that would have been amazing, right?

Speaker 1

01:53

It would have been amazing. And you can read more stuff like that in my book, Stranger Than Truth, John Oliver's 101 Favorite History Lies. But the point is, the president commuting these people's sentences is a big deal because they'd all been subjected to mandatory minimum sentencing laws, which is our topic tonight. Mandatory minimums require judges to punish certain crimes with a minimum number of years in prison, regardless of context.

Speaker 1

02:20

Which is a little strange, because context is important. For instance, shouting the phrase, I'm coming, is fine when catching a bus, but not okay when you're already on the bus. So, circumstances make a huge difference. That's what I'm trying to say.

Speaker 1

02:36

Now, our current mandatory minimums were mostly passed during the tough-on-crime era of the 1980s and 90s. And they're partially responsible for the explosion of our prison population.

Speaker 4

02:47

Since 1980, the prison population has more than quadrupled. To put that into perspective, that means 1 out of every 100 adults is locked up.

Speaker 1

02:56

That's true. We have 2000000 people incarcerated. If we keep going in this direction, we'll soon have enough to populate an entire new country with prisoners, and trust me when I say, that is not a good idea.

Speaker 1

03:10

Literally, the only good thing to come out of that experiment was Hugh Jackman, and that took 180 years. It was worth it, but it was a long time. But it was worth it. It was worth it.

Speaker 1

03:21

But... 2 centuries, but it was... It was worth it. But...

Speaker 1

03:26

Mandatory minimums have had a real human cost. Meet 1 prisoner currently serving time in Oklahoma.

Speaker 5

03:33

My name is Kevin Ott. My number's 20-30-93.

Speaker 6

03:36

Good afternoon.

Speaker 5

03:37

I'm in here for trafficking methamphetamine. I start my 14th year in just a couple of months, and I will be here until I die. Yeah.

Speaker 5

03:50

I have life without parole for 3 ounces of methamphetamine.

Speaker 1

03:54

He got a life sentence for 3 ounces of meth. That is insane. They're treating him like he's season 5 Walter White, when he's barely episode 1 Jesse Pinkman.

Speaker 1

04:05

Now, most of the mandatory minimum drug laws on the books were written in the 80s and 90s when America was in the grips of a full-fledged anti-drug hysteria. It was a time when you could turn on your TV and see this.

Speaker 7

04:25

This is crack. Rock cocaine. It isn't glamorous or cool or kid stuff.

Speaker 5

04:33

Little kids doing drugs, it turns my stomach.

Speaker 1

04:36

-...

Speaker 6

04:38

It's... It's me. This is my future?

Speaker 7

04:42

It is if you don't get off those drugs.

Speaker 1

04:44

You use, you lose.

Speaker 6

04:46

Listen to us. We care about you, Mikey.

Speaker 1

04:49

There's nothing cool about a full-on drug. -... That last 1, you have to hand it to him, that last 1 had a clear message to kids.

Speaker 1

04:58

Listen, if you do drugs, all your favorite cartoon characters will show up and talk to you. Is that what you want? Is that what you want? So, to fight the perceived drug menace, Ronald Reagan passed tough, mandatory minimum drug penalties, and his successor pushed for even harsher laws, justifying them in an Oval Office speech featuring this spectacular moment.

Speaker 7

05:20

This is crack cocaine. Seized a few days ago by drug enforcement agents in a park just across the street from the White House. It could easily have been heroin or PCP.

Speaker 7

05:35

It's as innocent-looking as candy.

Speaker 1

05:39

And now, with the help of this bag's contents, I shall ascend into the cosmos on the wings of a dragon to a place where joy is everlasting and fear is but a memory. Let's do this thing. Let's do this thing, y'all.

Speaker 1

05:53

Whoo! We've come it! And look, fun side note here. If you are wondering why someone was dealing drugs in front of the White House, it later emerged the administration asked the DEA to relocate a previously arranged drug sting to make that line in the president's speech true.

Speaker 6

06:13

The DEA obligingly agreed to move the buy a little closer to the White House. The only hang-up was that apparently, the teenage drug dealer didn't know exactly where the White House was.

Speaker 1

06:25

Now, yeah, it's sad that a teenager got caught up in that sting, but that is an unbeatable prison yard story. Oh, that's an amazing breaking and entering anecdote you have. Did I ever tell you about the time I sold crack to the President of the United States?

Speaker 1

06:40

--LAUGHTER --And this was by no means just a Republican issue. Democrats in Congress, state legislatures, and even Bill Clinton also pushed for these laws. And by early 1994, 31 states and D.C. Had mandatory minimum sentences for drug offenses.

Speaker 1

06:57

They united people from either side of the aisle faster than playing the chicken dance at a wedding. And that's... That is guaranteed to work every time. This is 1 your auntie knows.

Speaker 1

07:07

Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. But... But nowadays, that bipartisan tide has very much turned. Everyone from the president to Ted Cruz has spoken out against mandatory minimums.

Speaker 1

07:19

And earlier this year, a bipartisan group of legislators introduced a bill to curb them with this striking statement.

Speaker 3

07:25

Let me just start off with a challenge to the press and everyone in attendance. Try

Speaker 1

07:39

to find a more diverse political

Speaker 6

07:40

group...-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- a diverse political group...

Speaker 1

07:41

Gathered 1 place in the history of

Speaker 6

07:41

the United States Congress. In fact, I challenge you to find any group as diverse as the 8

Speaker 1

07:41

men standing before you. I cannot think of anyone who is not represented here. I challenge you.

Speaker 1

07:47

You are challenged. But even people who helped write those laws at the time have turned on them. Take Kevin Ring. He was a congressional staffer who helped push mandatory minimums in the 90s because he believed that they were an effective deterrent.

Speaker 1

08:02

He later went to prison for fraud, and meeting his fellow inmates somewhat changed his mind.

Speaker 2

08:08

Most of these guys made stupid mistakes without any idea of what the punishment was. They just didn't think they were gonna get caught. So you can make the severity off the charts.

Speaker 2

08:19

You can do life sentence for jaywalking. It's not gonna stop it.

Speaker 1

08:23

Of course it isn't. Ridiculously long sentences are not a great deterrent to crime. Prison sentences are a lot like penises.

Speaker 1

08:30

If they're used correctly, even a short 1 can do the trick. Is a rumor I have heard. And... And the truth is...

Speaker 1

08:41

The truth is, mandatory minimums... Mandatory minimums didn't just not work, they ruined lives. Take the case of Weldon Angelos, a non-violent first-time offender. When he was 24, he sold small amounts of marijuana to an informant, while he happened to have a gun in his possession.

Speaker 1

08:59

And as a result, he received a 55-year mandatory minimum sentence with no parole. He won't get out until he's 79 for selling something that's currently legal for recreational use in 4 states, and whose main side effect is making episodes of Frasier slightly funnier. -...and he was not the only 1 affected by his sentence.

Speaker 4

09:20

His 2 boys were 5 and 7. They were just destroyed. I mean, you could see the sadness in him all the time.

Speaker 8

09:30

I think it's cruel. And, like, I'm not saying he doesn't deserve anything, but he did serve his time, and I think he's been there long enough. Like, the minimum should have been, like, 5 years, maybe.

Speaker 8

09:44

55 years is way too much.

Speaker 1

09:46

Yeah, it is. It is way too much. And you know who else thinks that?

Speaker 1

09:51

The judge who sentenced him.

Speaker 9

09:53

If he had been a aircraft hijacker, he would have gotten 24 years in prison. If he'd been a terrorist, he would have gotten 20 years in prison. If he was a child rapist, he would have gotten 11 years in prison.

Speaker 9

10:04

And now I'm supposed to give him a 55-year sentence? I mean, that's just not right.

Speaker 1

10:08

So wait, if my math is right here, this low-level pot dealer received the exact same sentence as would an airplane hijacking, child raping terrorist, a person so evil, I legitimately don't know if 1 has ever existed. And he's not alone. Many judges, many judges oppose mandatory minimums Because they essentially hand over sentencing power to prosecutors who can then use the threat of long mandatory minimums to convince defendants to take a plea bargain or to cooperate by providing information.

Speaker 1

10:42

And we have all seen this in action on cop shows.

Speaker 10

10:46

That heroin we found in your apartment, that kind of weight, we gotta take that to federal court. Mandatory minimum sentence you're looking at is 10 years. See, we're giving you a choice here, Jimmy.

Speaker 10

10:55

You do the 10 years or you help us on these homicides we're looking at.

Speaker 1

10:58

Yeah, and you know what? Don't help us out too quickly either, Jimmy. We got 23 minutes left in this episode, so you're gonna want to reveal that relevant information in a nice piecemeal fashion.

Speaker 1

11:07

--LAUGHTER --And look, drugs have hurt people. For sure. But the mandatory minimum sentencing laws designed to stop them have done way more harm than good, particularly to certain populations. In 2010, nearly 3 quarters of federal drug offenders sentenced under mandatory minimums were black or Hispanic.

Speaker 1

11:27

They affect minorities the way that hockey injuries affect white people. Not entirely, but disproportionately. Now, luckily, at the federal level, we've reduced some mandatory minimums and added safety valve provisions to give judges discretion in certain cases. And on the local level, at least 29 states have rolled back their mandatory minimum laws.

Speaker 1

11:49

But for the most part, those reforms have not been made retroactive. Meaning thousands of people are currently stuck in prison for crimes that would carry far shorter sentences if they committed them just a few years later. And that's terrible. Just think about how annoyed you get when people who get seated after you at a restaurant get served and leave before you.

Speaker 1

12:13

Only, in this case, The food is prison food, the restaurant is prison, and dinner takes 55 fucking years. And the thing is, if we go back, if we go back and fix these mistakes, while we still can, the effect can be transformative. Look at Jason Hernandez, who was sentenced to life in prison for dealing drugs, including crack. Watch him read his commutation from the president.

Speaker 11

12:40

Being known that I, Barack Obama, President of the United States of America, a consideration of the... Other premises, there is other good.

Speaker 6

12:55

A consideration of the

Speaker 11

12:55

premises, of the good, and sufficient reasons to be there unto moving. Do hereby grant the said... ...The said application.

Speaker 1

13:14

Let me tell you just how moving that is. I'm moved by it, and I'm British. And we are so repressed that crying in public is punishable by exile from the country.

Speaker 1

13:25

I'm only here because I saw the trailer for The Notebook in the theater. He wrote her every day for a year. Every day for a year!

Speaker 10

13:35

Their first love was their greatest love! -...love! -...love!

Speaker 10

13:39

-...love! -...love!

Speaker 1

13:40

-...love! -...love! There... There are so many people who deserve to have their cases addressed.

Speaker 1

13:46

Here is just 1 more. Sharonda Jones, a first-time nonviolent offender. She was sentenced to life for her very minor part in a crack cocaine ring. She had an eight-year-old daughter when she went to prison and has had to watch her grow up from inside

Speaker 4

14:00

there. My dream is to just show up

Speaker 6

14:09

at her school. I mean, I know they gave

Speaker 4

14:09

me life, but I can't imagine not being at her graduation. Her high school graduation. I just can't imagine me not being there.

Speaker 1

14:16

Here's the thing, that was 8 years ago, and she missed that graduation. And Sharonda was not on the president's list of commutations last week. Nor, incidentally, was Weldon Angelos.

Speaker 1

14:27

And as for Kevin Ott, he couldn't be on the list because he's in a state facility, so his pardon would need to come from the governor of Oklahoma. And look, there should be a lot more pardons and commutations. But if we really want to address this problem permanently, we need states and the federal government, not just to repeal mandatory minimums going forward, but to also pass laws so that existing prisoners can apply for retroactively reduced sentences. Because almost everyone has agreed that mandatory minimum laws were a mistake.

Speaker 1

14:58

And we cannot have a system where people are continuing to pay for that mistake, and where perhaps their best chance of getting out of a prison that they should no longer be in is somehow finding a turkey costume and hanging around the fucking White House at Thanksgiving. You