See all LastWeekTonight transcripts on Youtube

Speaker 1

00:00

♪♪ Moving on. Our main story tonight concerns hair. Specifically, black hair. The subject that gave us the single greatest Real Housewives entrance of all time.

Speaker 1

00:13

When Kenya Moore crashed Marlo Hampton's wig launch with a marching band to promote her own line of hair products, and Portia Williams reacted like this.

Speaker 2

00:21

Even if I did agree with Kenya and the fact that people's edges matter, they don't matter today, bitch. You are wrong. This is absolutely insane!

Speaker 2

00:30

Okay? So today I don't agree. But tomorrow, yes, my edges matter and I'll be using the product.

Speaker 1

00:35

You know what? As per usual, Portia is right about a number of things there. Kenya is wrong.

Speaker 1

00:40

Edges do matter. And I, like Portia, will also be using the product tomorrow. Monday is my wash day. And look, I realize I'm not the ideal person to talk about black hair.

Speaker 1

00:51

I look like I still go to an old-timey barber named Valentino and ask for the tidy Liza Minnelli. And I also know that the danger is, when a white guy on TV starts confidently talking about black hair, Even with the best of intentions, it can end something like this.

Speaker 3

01:05

I didn't want the little tea light to overheat, and then all of a sudden, we've got breaking news here at the channel.

Speaker 4

01:10

I told you, if the sprinkler system's coming, I'm done for the day.

Speaker 5

01:12

Yeah, that is not...

Speaker 4

01:14

Sitting up here looking

Speaker 3

01:15

like a mop. Yeah, you don't want sprinkler system and a beautiful weave because they do not go... Oh!

Speaker 3

01:21

0, you're beautiful. You said it was a weave, right?

Speaker 6

01:25

It's not a weave.

Speaker 1

01:30

♪♪ Wow. That is the exact right reaction to announcing your black co-worker's hair is a weave live on air. Getting up from your desk and just running away.

Speaker 1

01:41

Running forever, running until your life fades behind you and your feet touch the ocean. Now, you should know, those 2 co-workers seem to have gotten over that incident, putting out a video titled, Blaine and Layla Discuss Hair Weave, A Rebuttal, where Blaine says he's learned the difference between quick weaves, lace fronts, and sew-ins because of their friendship. But the fact is, on the whole, White people don't really understand a lot about black hair. And by the way, if your first reaction to that was, hey, not all white people, maybe look inside yourself and figure out why that is your response to things.

Speaker 1

02:10

But importantly, that lack of understanding and lack of interest in understanding can have real consequences from the personal to the professional, as you probably know, either from experience or from seeing stories like this.

Speaker 7

02:22

Chastity Jones was tangled in a nearly ten-year legal battle after she says an employer took back a job offer at an Alabama call center because she refused to cut her hair.

Speaker 8

02:32

She said, are those dreadlocks in your hair? And I just... Looked at her and I was like, these?

Speaker 8

02:43

And she said, yes. I said, yes, they are. She said, well, we can accept that here.

Speaker 1

02:52

Can you imagine turning someone away who wants to work at a call center? The university's most thankless job. A place where you answer the phone and immediately there's an angry woman screaming at you because some of the broccolini in her Hello Fresh kit didn't smell right, and now she wants to speak to Mr.

Speaker 1

03:08

Fresh. If you have someone who wants to do that job, let them. What's on their head has nothing to do with it. They could show up to work in a wig made of living ferrets, and they deserve not only that position, but double whatever you're paying them.

Speaker 1

03:21

The point is, black hair and hairstyles are frequently yet another pretext for discrimination. So tonight, let's talk about it. And Let's start by understanding why black hair is so important. For centuries, black people in Africa innovated ways to protect and prolong the health of their hair, and that practice has continued and evolved into beautiful and distinct hairstyles with a deep connection to culture and heritage.

Speaker 1

03:45

And for as long as that has happened, white people have been unable to handle it. 1 of the first things slave traders would do was shave the heads of enslaved people, which erased their cultural identity. And black hair has historically been described in dehumanizing fashion, with racial typologist Charles Hamilton Smith describing his hierarchy of 3 main types of people. The bearded Caucasian type, the beardless Mongolic type, and the woolly-haired tropical type.

Speaker 1

04:11

And the only time woolly-haired tropical is an acceptable term to use, is if you're talking about Madagascar's Wooly Lima, a tropical little sweetie who always looks like he just accidentally replied all. Other than that, it's off limits. Now, by the late 19th century, beauty companies were advertising products like skin lighteners and hair straighteners, reinforcing the idea that black hair was dirty and unkempt, and the closer your appearance was to whiteness, the better, like in this ad from 1900 from Magnetic Comb that promised to destroy the hair germs on your head, and take you from a curly-haired black person to a straight-haired white 1. And the desire to make black hair smoother and straighter was so strong, just listen to the sheer delight this British Newsreel takes in showing you the process.

Speaker 9

04:56

Combs come into play. Kept constantly heated, they are passed through each section of the hair until all trace of kinkiness disappears. It's not all plain sailing, actually, and it's not quite a permanent permanent, if you follow me.

Speaker 9

05:08

If the hair gets really wet or steamed up, it unstraightens itself and back come the kinks.

Speaker 1

05:14

Oh, no! Hearing that beauty standard reinforced in that particular voice is definitely a sign that something has gone terribly wrong. And I know for some viewers, passing a hot metal comb through the hair to straighten it might look like a curio from the distant past, but I guarantee, some of you were just transported back to being 8 years old, sitting on a high stool in the kitchen at 6 a.m.

Speaker 1

05:36

On school picture day, holding your ears down while your mom or grandma gets the hot comb uncomfortably close to your scalp. For some, the smell of burning hair is a sign that something's wrong, but for others, it brings back memories. By the 1960s and 70s, though, the embrace of black hair's natural texture and culturally significant styles had become a radical act of self-acceptance and political power.

Speaker 10

05:57

Who taught you to hate the texture of your hair? Who taught you to heat the color of your skin to such extent that you bleach to get like the white man?

Speaker 1

06:09

White people. The answer is white people. That question answers itself, just like the answer to the questions, who lets their dogs kiss them in the mouth, who wants to pick apples for fun, and who's coming to dinner on Ina Garten's show?

Speaker 1

06:20

The answer is... White people. But despite the natural hair movement, white people's discomfort and ignorance around black hair has very much remained. 1 study found black women were 80 percent more likely to agree with the statement, I have to change my hair from its natural state to fit in at the office.

Speaker 1

06:37

And another found that black women with natural hairstyles were perceived to be less professional, less competent, and less likely to be recommended for a job interview. The point is, the way your hair is perceived, and therefore, the way you are perceived, can manifest in all sorts of ways.

Speaker 11

06:53

I know the anxiety that people have after getting their hair done, and like, okay, what's gonna happen when I go to work? Are they gonna say anything?

Speaker 8

07:00

You know, it's a big thing in the workplace. A lot of people don't want to draw attention to themselves, so they try to do the norm.

Speaker 4

07:06

A lot of the time, I would always get people just like, saying how, like, soft my hair is and everything, and like, wanting to touch it. That's like, always a

Speaker 12

07:12

big thing.

Speaker 4

07:13

And like, adults doing that, too.

Speaker 8

07:15

And like,

Speaker 6

07:15

grown women, like, can

Speaker 8

07:16

I touch it?

Speaker 6

07:17

You know you don't touch no black women here.

Speaker 2

07:18

No, you already know that.

Speaker 4

07:20

It makes me feel like you're in a zoo.

Speaker 1

07:21

Look, you obviously shouldn't be made to feel like you're in a zoo ever for any reason. Also, and this is clearly not the point, but if you are touching animals at the zoo, you're doing the zoo wrong. Don't be stressing out the otters by shouting unwanted questions and trying to sneak your hands into the cages to cop a feel.

Speaker 1

07:38

Yes, the bald eagle's feathers are laid, but don't shout, -"Yas, queen!" and try to pet her. Unlike your co-workers, The eagle will snap your fucking fingers off, and you will have it coming. Unfortunately though, white people's biases and ignorance are often just laying in wait for the right moment to strike.

Speaker 5

07:55

Jonathan Sutherland is a Penn State football captain and a Dean's List student. But what people are talking about tonight is his hair. That's thanks to this letter.

Speaker 5

08:05

The author is a proclaimed alumnus from decades ago named David Peterson. He calls Sutherland's hair awful, stating his locks are... He also writes...

Speaker 1

08:21

Everything about that is upsetting, from the racist attitude to the hurtful language, to the fact that he chose to express moral outrage over something in college football. But it's not that the NCAA makes millions off student athletes. Instead, it's, I can see your hair outside your helmet.

Speaker 1

08:36

Now, that man later explained that he only wrote the letter because, I was just disgruntled about some of the hairdos that we're seeing. You think of Penn State as a bunch of clean-cut guys. And, you think of Penn State as, is just not a sentence that ends well under any circumstances, especially when you realize that man actually got a degree from Penn State in 1966, the same year as Jerry Sandusky, who somehow, despite his short hair, turned out to be a heinous sex criminal. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it's almost like the haircut doesn't fucking matter.

Speaker 1

09:09

And it starts way before college. You may remember the terrible case of high school wrestler Andrew Johnson, who was basically forced to cut his locks off or forfeit an important wrestling match by a referee. That case made national news, but there are hundreds of others that don't. From the school in Kentucky that once banned, and I quote, dreadlocks and corn rolls, to twin sisters in Massachusetts that received hours of detention because of their braided hair, to this daycare in suburban Chicago.

Speaker 13

09:35

Mom may like the smell, but according to this note Tiona Norris posted on her Facebook page, Amaya's teacher didn't like it, basically saying...

Speaker 8

09:43

Your child stinks. Don't put the coconut oil in her hair. The kids were teasing her.

Speaker 13

09:48

Nora says Amaya was the only black child in her preschool class at the Rackety Ann Learning Center in Elmhurst.

Speaker 14

09:54

I was just hurt for my child.

Speaker 13

09:56

Especially after Nora says she met with the teacher and school administrator and learned the children in the class never complained. It was just the teacher who didn't like the smell. We called the school and left several messages.

Speaker 13

10:08

We visited and got this. Hi, I'm Dorothy Tucker from Channel 10 News. Goodbye.

Speaker 1

10:15

Wow. That feels like a perfectly staged five-second play encapsulating the history of race relations in America. A black person trying to discuss racial inequality with a white person who then immediately says, goodbye. So, black people from an early age are often told that their hair is unattractive and needs to be corrected.

Speaker 1

10:33

And that is already just a lot before you even start getting into all the ways that society makes it difficult to navigate the world because of your hair. Even just buying hair products can be an unnecessary challenge, with black hair products routinely locked in a case where someone has to come with a key to get it for you, or maybe even walk it to the register, in the same aisle where products for white people that cost just as much or more are simply sitting out on the shelves. And the explanation for this is never great.

Speaker 8

11:03

So I went and found the manager, and I said, I'm waiting for the key for shampoo and conditioner. I said, but let me ask you, why are the black hair products locked up and not the white hair products? He said, and another associate said, well, people have been stealing.

Speaker 1

11:22

Yeah. Now, that Walmart claims that it was based on data of theft in the store. But when a town council member asked to see that data, the store instructed her to call 1-800-WARMART. And just out of interest, on a touch-tone phone, which button do you press to hear the bullshit data used to justify locking up $4 EcoStyler gel?

Speaker 1

11:40

Is that like number 7, or do you have to ask for an associate first? So, it is already hard enough to get products to do your hair at home. But finding a qualified stylist can be even harder. The cosmetology industry mostly revolves around and trains for caring for straight, non-textured hair.

Speaker 1

11:58

So there is no guarantee that a stylist in your area can work with black hair. Just watch 1 TikToker call 23 salons in their hometown and get nothing but responses like these.

Speaker 15

12:09

I was wondering if you guys worked with African-American hair, specifically 4C type?

Speaker 16

12:15

We do not. None of the girls do here, no. We don't really have a lot of experience, so I would say that you're probably better to keep looking around.

Speaker 15

12:26

I was wondering if you guys were able to work with African-American hair, specifically 4C type?

Speaker 16

12:32

Oh, hold on just a moment. Let me ask. Okay.

Speaker 16

12:35

Is anybody familiar with African-American hair? Not very much.

Speaker 1

12:42

Yeah, that's not great. But I do love that that receptionist is asking the entire staff like she just got called as a phone a friend on who wants to be a millionaire. Hey, Donna, it's the $25,000 question.

Speaker 1

12:54

Can you do a silk present, bump those ends? Final answer, she can't. And this isn't just a problem in salons. Even in Hollywood, stylists who are both familiar with black hair and who are in the stylist union are rare, and actors definitely know when their production has failed to hire 1.

Speaker 17

13:11

I was on this show, they made me a series regular, I was hella pumped. Walked in the hair and makeup trailer first time, oh, shit, I'm about to like get paid. Let me see, homegirl, this white lady, she tapped my head.

Speaker 17

13:24

Yeah. Knot line, she tapped it, sprayed some water, didn't brush, didn't comb and left. And I was like, oh, wild.

Speaker 1

13:32

Now, I actually recommend going back and watching each actor in that clip as he tells that story, because you really get the sense that every 1 of them identifies with what he's saying there. And it's not ideal that for a lot of hair stylists, their strategy to deal with black clients is the same that you would use to get your cat off the kitchen counter. Give him a little spritz, and then give him a pat on the head so they know you're not mad.

Speaker 1

13:54

And when you consider all of the obstacles that get placed in the path of black people, it's understandably pretty hard to take when white people wear the exact same hairstyles that they get judgment for. From Bo Derek, famously wearing braids in the movie 10, to Adele and Miley Cyrus trying on black hairstyles for fun, to this Condé Garcon fashion show at which the models wore lace front cornrow wigs, which were awful in every possible way. I mean, just look at that thing. There is enough room between each braid to land a fucking plane there.

Speaker 1

14:24

And you don't even have to look closely to see the model's dark hair through the lace. Come on. You put a wig cap on first, then you put the wig on. You grab your gotta be spray or wig glue, you melt that lace, and you lay those edges down so well they fall asleep.

Speaker 1

14:36

There are only 2 situations where that appalling level of wig application is acceptable. Either you're in the middle of hosting an episode of SNL, or you're posing as a British nanny to stay close to your children after your divorce. That is it. And the thing is, white people appropriating black hairstyles isn't just infuriating, it can directly make it harder for black people to fight discrimination concerning their hair.

Speaker 12

14:59

There was a court case in 1981, a discrimination suit filed by a black woman named Renee Rogers. She'd worked for American Airlines, and she wore her hair in cornrows. Her legal argument was that her hairstyle was a part of her cultural heritage.

Speaker 12

15:13

The judge ruled against her in federal court because he said she got her hair done soon after the movie 10 came out. And therefore, there was no legal basis for saying it was cultural heritage because she was doing something that essentially was imitating how Bo Derek styled her hair.

Speaker 1

15:28

Yeah, it's true. Among the reasons he dismissed her case, the judge suggested that a Black person wearing a traditionally Black hairstyle was just copying a white celebrity who stole it from Black people, which is just ridiculous. Hairstyles have cultural roots.

Speaker 1

15:43

They don't just come out of nowhere to sweep the nation, with the sole exception, of course, of the Rachel, which wasn't appropriated from any culture. It simply sprang forth fully formed from the concept known as the 90s. And I wish I could say that that is a thing of the past, but you know it isn't. Chastity Jones, the woman you saw earlier, spent years appealing her case, only to lose in part because judges interpreted civil rights law to protect against discrimination based only on immutable or unchangeable characteristics associated with race, like skin color.

Speaker 1

16:15

So for decades, courts have found that hairstyles, even though they are deeply tied to racial identity, are not covered. And all of that means that a younger generation can still end up having to deal with this shit.

Speaker 18

16:27

Nineteen-year-old Destiny Tompkins has worked at this Banana Republic store at the Westchester Mall in White Plains for just about a month. She was called into a meeting with her manager on Wednesday, caught completely off guard by what happened next.

Speaker 15

16:40

He was like, yeah, so, the district manager came in, she pointed out something about your hair. And I'm like, okay, so what's wrong with my hair? He said, it's a little too urban and unkempt for our look, and for our image.

Speaker 15

16:53

We were just wondering, like, if you could just take them out.

Speaker 1

16:56

Okay, putting aside the use of the word urban there, a level of tone deafness on par with naming your store Banana Republic, just take them out? Those are words from someone who has 0 idea of what it took to put them in in the first place. That is coming from a man who, I'm guessing, has never spent 7 hours in a salon chair with an iPad full of movies and a backpack full of snacks.

Speaker 1

17:18

Now, you should know, the store called that unacceptable, and the manager was fired. But the problem is, since professionalism gets defined by white standards and expectations, black hair is more likely to crash into those expectations. So, what can we do? Well, for some of the smaller issues you've seen tonight, there have been changes.

Speaker 1

17:37

Some chain stores, including Walmart, have announced that they will no longer be locking up black hair products, which feels like the least that they can do, but it is a start. A bigger change would be to pass laws like Crown Act, or creating a respectful and open world for natural hair. Versions have already become law in these 11 states. And while the language varies, generally, they expand the definition of race in anti-discrimination laws to include traits historically associated with race, like protective hairstyles, such as braids, locks, and twists.

Speaker 1

18:07

Unfortunately, Crown Act bills have repeatedly met with Republican opposition. In Utah, in 1 recent Zoom hearing on their bill, State Senator Derren Owens, who voted against it, made a point of first addressing the bill's advocates like this.

Speaker 19

18:22

Let me make a comment. You people are beautiful. I...

Speaker 19

18:27

And I don't normally do this, but I'm gonna show you in a... I was in a store the other day, and I don't think you won't be able to see this picture but this gentleman in front of me with my black man had 2 young children and they were just Having fun around up and down the island and I don't normally take pictures of children, but they were adorable 2 black children. Because they're just the cutest kids in the world. 1 has cornrows and 1 of them dreadlocks.

Speaker 19

18:54

I wish you could see that.

Speaker 1

18:55

What are you doing? You exceptionally weird man. Just to recap, he started off there by telling a group of black women, you people are beautiful.

Speaker 1

19:05

Then proceeded to say, I don't normally take pictures of children, but... A perfectly acceptable sentence until the but part. Then launched into a story about how he keeps photos of strangers' children on his phone. All of which evokes a response perhaps best summed up by this expression, which I'd argue is an absolute master class in how to say, the fuck, using only your eyebrows.

Speaker 1

19:25

And if you are wondering how he got from that to voting against the bill, His argument was that he felt existing laws were sufficient and that it almost looks like we're trying to do something that doesn't exist. But this discrimination isn't something that doesn't exist. It's something that doesn't exist for white men who've never had to think about it before. The consequences of hair-based discrimination are very real.

Speaker 1

19:49

Just listen to Connecticut State Senator Gary Winfield make the case for his state's Crown Act in the run-up to it passing into law by talking about his three-year-old daughter.

Speaker 20

19:58

Right now, she runs through life... With all of the energy that she has, with all of the beauty that she has, with her hair natural. That's who she is.

Speaker 20

20:12

It's not just what sits on top of her head, it is who she is. But I want her to be able to participate in this world fully. And so even if she runs through this world with her natural hair, there will be a discussion about what it is to run through this world with her natural hair. And what she will have to learn, whether she makes the choice to run through this world with her natural hair or not, is that a part of her is not acceptable.

Speaker 1

20:46

That's awful. It's infuriating that black children have to add hair discrimination to the long list of things that they're already forced to think about, like the threat of police violence, the danger of harassment by racist white people, and of course, the very real risk of getting photographed by Utah State Senator Derren Owens in a fucking checkout line. That man's daughter and all Black people should clearly be able to make choices about their hair based on what they feel like doing with it, rather than, will this get me harassed or fired?

Speaker 1

21:17

If you want to have natural hair, great. You want to straighten your hair, great. Whatever you like. The point is, black hair shouldn't be viewed, corralled, or judged by white people's comfort because it doesn't belong to white people, it doesn't affect white people, And white people really don't need to have an opinion on it.

Speaker 1

21:34

And our laws should reflect that. And I know that there may be limits to what Crown Acts can accomplish. Even if 1 passes at the federal level, there could be cases where a white judge is asked to decide whether a specific hairstyle is associated with race and completely fucks it up. But they are a start.

Speaker 1

21:52

And look, if you're not a Black person, it's probably easy to hear these stories and think, well, it's just hair. But the thing is, it's not. It's not at all. Black people aren't getting hired or are getting fired.

Speaker 1

22:05

Black students are being teased, taunted, and removed from school, all because of their hair. And Crown Act laws could make a real difference there. And while social stigma and unrealistic beauty standards aren't going to go away overnight, there are a few things that white viewers, in particular, might want to keep in mind going forward. And to that end, if you are 1, there's a message that you should probably hear.

Speaker 8

22:30

Hi, white people. I'm Uzo Aduba.

Speaker 6

22:33

I'm Craig Robinson. Hi, white people. I'm Leslie Jones.

Speaker 6

22:36

What's up, black people?

Speaker 8

22:38

Brothers and sisters.

Speaker 6

22:40

You good? Your mama good? All right.

Speaker 6

22:43

Listen, I gotta talk to these white people for a second. I'll see you at the meeting. All right. Look, white people, I know you have lots of questions.

Speaker 21

22:52

Like, maybe too many questions.

Speaker 4

22:55

Like, how often do you have to wash black hair?

Speaker 6

22:57

What is a silk press?

Speaker 21

22:59

What does a do-rag do?

Speaker 6

23:01

Well, the good news is we're about to fill you in. We're about to give you the answer to all your questions about black hair.

Speaker 21

23:07

You ready for it?

Speaker 4

23:08

You ready for it?

Speaker 6

23:09

You ready for it?

Speaker 21

23:10

OK, here it is. Google it.

Speaker 16

23:15

Google it.

Speaker 6

23:16

Fucking Google it.

Speaker 1

23:17

Fucking Google it.

Speaker 8

23:18

I mean, it doesn't have to be Google.

Speaker 6

23:20

It can be fucking Bing, YouTube, Wikipedia. I don't give a shit.

Speaker 21

23:25

The information is out there.

Speaker 6

23:26

And once you get the information, you can appreciate all the beauty and hard work it takes to keeping my hair laid and looking good, okay?

Speaker 21

23:34

And if you're not interested in Googling it, there is another option. Fuck off.

Speaker 4

23:39

Leave us the fuck alone.

Speaker 6

23:41

Fucking off is always an option.

Speaker 21

23:44

And look, white people, Don't tell me you can't figure this out on your own. You figured out sellers of katan.

Speaker 4

23:48

You figured out sourdough bread last year. I think you can Google the word weave.

Speaker 6

23:53

You can learn what the fuck a box braid is, bitch.

Speaker 21

23:56

Okay, I think that just about covers it.

Speaker 4

23:58

Basically, just Google it. Don't touch it.

Speaker 6

24:01

And that's 1 more thing.

Speaker 21

24:02

Don't spray my hair with water and tap my head. I'm not a cat.

Speaker 6

24:07

Bye. Goddamn white people. You