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Speaker 1

00:00

The Jorogun Experience

Speaker 2

00:02

I don't think this is gonna work laughing Oh my god I can't see Oh fuck I can't like I can't see at all I don't know how you're supposed to see out of that.

Speaker 1

00:17

It's a deadly outfit.

Speaker 2

00:20

I guess I'll just put that on when I want to say something incriminating.

Speaker 1

00:23

Yeah. What do you mean?

Speaker 2

00:25

Well, the Thought Police. So pull up that article, Jamie, at the beginning of this podcast. We should probably go right into this Because apparently the Department of Homeland Security And Twitter yeah, we're working together Are we on yeah?

Speaker 2

00:45

I don't hear there. We go The Department of Homeland Security Was they had a plan to police information and they were working with Twitter in some fashion Like look at this quietly broadening its effort to curve speech it considers dangerous. Yeah. What does that mean?

Speaker 1

01:04

I don't know.

Speaker 2

01:05

An investigation by the Intercept has found years of internal DHS memos, emails, and documents obtained via leaks and an ongoing lawsuit, as well as public documents, illustrate the expansive effort by the agency to influence the tech platforms. Shit. The work, much of which remains unknown to the American public, dun dun dun, came into clear view earlier this year when DHS announced a new disinformation governance board.

Speaker 1

01:34

Good Lord.

Speaker 2

01:35

A panel designed to police misinformation, false information spread unintentionally, disinformation false information spread internally. Intentionally. Intentionally, excuse me.

Speaker 2

01:46

And malinformation, factual information shared typically out of context with harmful intent Mal information is a weird 1

Speaker 1

01:55

mal information. Yeah,

Speaker 2

01:56

because it's factual but it's shared typically out of context

Speaker 1

02:02

With harmful intent that's where you're like you look you don't understand why we mowed down those reporters with a chopper. It's out of context. You can't just show the video.

Speaker 2

02:13

While the board was widely ridiculed, immediately scaled back, and then shut down within a few months. Other initiatives are underway as DHS pivots to monitoring social media now that its original mandate, the war on terror, has been wound down. So that's been wound down, apparently.

Speaker 2

02:30

Platforms have got to get comfortable with government. It's really interesting how hesitant they remain. Microsoft executive Matt Masterson, former DHS official, texted Jen Easterly. Look at that, platforms have got to get comfortable with government.

Speaker 2

02:48

Oh.

Speaker 1

02:49

What does that mean?

Speaker 2

02:50

I don't know. Tim Pool sent me this this morning. I didn't get a chance to read, I was in the gym.

Speaker 1

02:55

Look, you gotta get comfortable with government.

Speaker 2

02:57

Yeah, that's what I've been saying.

Speaker 1

02:58

Just get comfortable.

Speaker 2

02:59

Yeah, why aren't you comfortable?

Speaker 1

03:00

Cozy up. Put on some sweatpants. Cozy up.

Speaker 1

03:07

Wow, that's creepy. I mean, I guess we all kind of suspected it though right it's not like anybody that's is that a shocker

Speaker 2

03:16

well what would Tim Poole said is that Twitter was working with them That they I guess like they weren't being honest about it they were working with them What were you telling me that the Jimmy Kimmel tweeted something and tried to delete it?

Speaker 1

03:31

Yeah, it looks like, I could be wrong about this, but Kemmel was pissed at Musk. Why? For buying Twitter.

Speaker 2

03:39

Why does he care? What is he mad about?

Speaker 1

03:41

So basically, a lot of people seem to be really upset with Elon for buying Twitter because Elon is saying that he's not going to censor Twitter anymore. He's gonna let all the banned people are gonna get back on apparently. You know, it's like they're trying to figure it out how to do it.

Speaker 1

04:04

And so this is upset a lot of people who were happy with the idea that it was being like hyper moderated in a way I think that fits in with their politics. Yeah, that was the idea. So it's like so like their team was in control for a second and now somebody you know What it reminds me of it's like when a new booker shows up in a comedy club And all the comics start talking shit, it's like scary

Speaker 2

04:34

It has been interesting over the years to watch you blossom from the electric car guy into a fully formed piece of shit. Wow.

Speaker 1

04:42

And look, see, it says this tweet was deleted by the tweet author.

Speaker 2

04:46

Learn more. He was replying to a tweet that Elon tweeted And what was the tweet on deleted which I was that was a tweet where it's this It's like the Santa Monica observer or something like that was tweeting something about the Paul Pelosi attack and that Santa Monica Observer has been known to tweet things that aren't correct or at least has or not tweet, publish things that aren't correct, at least has in 1 instance that they were citing something about Hillary Clinton. I don't know but you know he I think what Elon tweeted was there's a tiny chance that we might not be getting the full story and then he tweeted that story yeah this is the idea that maybe Paul Pelosi knew this guy because people have been trying to pin that guy and say that he was A right-wing MAGA guy, but didn't he live in like some fucking hippie collective and he made like hemp jewelry

Speaker 1

05:45

He did woota queue pipeline He went woota queue. So like he apparently had some kind of blog or something. I think he started off Wu, super hippie, ayahuasca, mystical, and then gradually kind of devolved into Q

Speaker 2

06:06

Q anon Q anon Twitter's Twitter's fact-checking the president United States is incorrect fact,

Speaker 1

06:12

right,

Speaker 2

06:13

which is crazy that that's happening

Speaker 1

06:16

Well, this is the emperor wears no clothes. Yes. That's the fable right?

Speaker 1

06:21

Like there's naked dudes going around everybody's scared of them so they're like beautiful robes!

Speaker 2

06:27

Yeah.

Speaker 1

06:27

And then some kid is like he's naked look he's obviously naked and then another person's like oh yeah you're right he is. It's like that is the pot that is the like I guess the hope of the internet, is that truth comes out and it destabilizes bad power, bad structures. You want to, you want to throw a monkey wrench into shit that doesn't work So that it like stops working and you rebuild instead of patching up old wobbly Things that are like smokes coming out gears are flying off and you're supposed to pretend like it's working.

Speaker 1

07:05

That's where it gets creepy. It's like, you know, if the machine that is failing starts telling tech companies or whoever, Like what is real and what isn't then a broken machine is then like articulating truth Which then so if someone starts telling the truth The Emperor wears no clothes and then like Twitter throws up underneath like this is potential misinformation Or whatever

Speaker 2

07:34

that's why this Department of Homeland Security thing is so creepy Because that would be the same people The same people that are telling you things that are factually Inaccurate or that are getting fact-checked on Twitter would be the very people that would get to dictate. What is mal? Information.

Speaker 2

07:53

Yeah, like mal information was the craziest 1 Like everybody thinks you shouldn't be able to say things aren't true, right? Or if you do you must correct them like you are you are you telling the truth? Are you manipulating with lies right? He can't manipulate with lies.

Speaker 2

08:08

So if maybe you said something and you thought it was true, let's correct that. But if you just keep Doing that over and over and over again, you never admit that. And then you're the 1 who gets to dictate what's mal-information. It's like the death throes of a dying system.

Speaker 2

08:27

And it's reaching out and it's acting and behaving the way it used to be able to behave when it had total access to what gets in what people get informed about or not. Right. It had complete control of that at 1 point in time.

Speaker 1

08:42

Well it's massive. I mean we're talking about How many offices are filled with people working for the government right now? How many?

Speaker 1

08:49

If you put them in a building, would the building go all the way to the moon?

Speaker 2

08:53

Would it be like a

Speaker 1

08:54

high rise? Probably the moon would be covered with government office buildings. But it's massive.

Speaker 1

09:00

And then it's so huge that you know, just people get put into departments and Some and some of the people that get put in the departments are good smart people and some of the people that get put in The departments they suck

Speaker 2

09:13

and like everything in All walks of life.

Speaker 1

09:16

Yeah, right. That's all it takes. So you get 1, like, everybody's had a shitty manager.

Speaker 1

09:21

You get 1 shitty manager in some job where he's got a little more power than he's supposed to have. And then he's probably got people around him who are like, this is a bad idea. And he's like, well, you're fired. And then people come in who are like, this is a really good idea.

Speaker 1

09:37

He's like, you're a genius if you think this is a good idea. Because it is. Then you have this like terrible geometry of like, where the contagion happens, where this 1 asshole's like starts getting surrounded by concentric circles of assholes and then those people have so much power and And that's I think what's going on with it is it's just like there's just too many people Running things and of those people there's got to be some that are great. I know there is.

Speaker 1

10:04

And there's some that are just abject, monstrous, power hungry, coked up assholes. And I think that's when you start seeing shit like that. It's clearly a sign of, I mean, again, maybe I'm being naive, but I'd like to imagine that that's coming from a few assholes. That's not coming from the totality of the US government, all of it.

Speaker 1

10:26

It's just coming from, what, a thousand assholes?

Speaker 2

10:30

But then there's also the real problem of actual misinformation that's being spread by bad parties, right? Like we know that. We know that there's misinformation that gets spread by bad governments, by our enemies.

Speaker 2

10:46

We know that there's a whole industry

Speaker 1

10:50

Yeah,

Speaker 2

10:50

like these Russian troll farms.

Speaker 1

10:52

Sure.

Speaker 2

10:53

You know, we've talked about this before but in on Facebook 19 of the top 20 Christian sites were being run by Russian troll farms.

Speaker 1

11:02

I remember you saying that

Speaker 2

11:03

you know how nuts that

Speaker 1

11:05

is up

Speaker 2

11:06

That means they're like they're like some conversations that are insane. They don't make any sense like how is this? How is this a conversation?

Speaker 2

11:13

Well, it might not be It might be right. We're getting manipulated It might be there's a bunch of and then the problem with people we were talking about before that we have this natural Inclination to follow leaders we do that online too, man And it's just like some really good tweets that point in a certain Direction people will start agreeing with it right people are easily the idea that manipulation only applies to like verbal or or Written in a statement. No it fucking applies to tweets too. You can manipulate people

Speaker 1

11:42

Manipulated all the fucking time. Are you kidding me? I'm like always getting caught up in bullshit online I like go through like phases of like yeah I pendulum between teams or I'll get caught up in some like deep crazy conspiracy I like I get like I it's a very potent by the way I'm not saying it's potent because I get manipulated easily but it's a potent drug.

Speaker 2

12:08

Yes.

Speaker 1

12:08

The internet's a potent drug. There's all kinds of operators. It's not just Russian troll forums.

Speaker 1

12:14

It's discordians. It's just basic like trolls who are bored. It's who knows what, probably some cult we'll never know about. Just some weird cult on an island somewhere with some nefarious purpose that's trying to put some certain information on the internet.

Speaker 1

12:30

It's an ocean of madness. Maybe the horrible idea is, okay, we can control the ocean of madness. That's what we're gonna do because some of these people are other states trying to cause discord in our society that could lead to a civil war, the collapse of the United States. We've got to do something about this.

Speaker 1

12:54

Call up Twitter. Listen, it's a problem. You got to let us tell you what's real and what's not real. And at first, maybe that's great.

Speaker 1

13:00

It's like, look, this is a hundred percent coming from Russian trolls. This, this, whatever this is, this is Russian AI trolls. But then, all of a sudden, the president calls that department, he's like, hey, is there any way that you could also start applying that to people who say that I seem like I'm kind of out of it.

Speaker 2

13:30

You