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Speaker 1

00:00

The Joe Rogan Experience The wildest 1 is religion. Go on. That they're tax free. Oh!

Speaker 1

00:07

The amount of money

Speaker 2

00:08

a guy like

Speaker 1

00:09

Joel Osteen is raking in tax free, does he have to pay any taxes? Does he have to personally pay taxes? How does that work?

Speaker 2

00:16

I actually have no idea.

Speaker 1

00:18

Find out if that's true.

Speaker 2

00:19

I believe that you're limited salary if your church is incorporated.

Speaker 1

00:26

But having churches pay no taxes is wild.

Speaker 2

00:29

But That speaks to stability, where it's like, it's the, it's Kahoot stability. It's like the, the bill of rights and the 10 commandments, they're not exactly 1 to 1, but it's all kind of the, there's no coincidence there where it's like everything that they it's another wing of the it's a I've Used to refer to God as Super Cup. Oh like we can't be there, but You shall not steal you shall not Even if there's no cameras don't steal don't murder don't

Speaker 1

01:03

is nuts wait cuz Scientology got it. Oh, yeah Yeah, yeah, they they sued they sued the federal government, and they got tax exempt status and You know That's wild because you know the guy who wrote it. Yeah.

Speaker 1

01:18

Like, 1 specific guy who is the, not just the most, he's the most prolific author in human history. You know that? He published more works of fiction, but not that. That was all real.

Speaker 2

01:30

No, I mean, look, guys gotta take the day off.

Speaker 1

01:32

And they get no taxes. It's pretty wild. I mean, if you're like a small Lutheran church and you, you know, you serve the community and you put on charities and do a bunch of great things and you're like a real asset.

Speaker 1

01:42

Yeah. There's a lot of those churches and they should be tax exempt.

Speaker 2

01:45

I don't, other than like the Sea Org slave shit. I don't care about Scientology Do you know what I mean like I don't think that they're they charge for classes I don't know they they kind of make you give them tithe at Churches

Speaker 1

01:58

seems like it's working out for Tom Cruise.

Speaker 2

01:59

It's Working out for a lot of them.

Speaker 1

02:01

Seems like it's really working

Speaker 2

02:02

out for Tom Cruise. I don't care. Just don't put people's, don't slave people.

Speaker 2

02:09

Don't do that. Kidnap Kelly Miscavige and all that shit. But the rest of it I don't care about. The rest of It's not any different to me than any other religion

Speaker 1

02:17

It seems like it's real similar to what goes on in a lot of religions in a sense because there's a lot of religions that Force people to work as missionaries. There's a lot of religions that you know, ask things of people and you have to tithe 10%

Speaker 2

02:29

and have kids and don't use birth control. I'm like that's pretty significant.

Speaker 1

02:34

Very significant yeah yeah. Punish gay people.

Speaker 2

02:37

Yeah.

Speaker 1

02:37

Yeah there's a lot of weird stuff in religions that we just accept. Yeah. Didn't you say that I think you said this that when you had a psychedelic experience, you kind of stopped being an atheist.

Speaker 2

02:49

Yeah, I was an atheist, and then ayahuasca journey number 4, no, journey number 3. 0, I'm in the presence of God. I'm just in it now.

Speaker 2

03:03

And it's not, I mean again, this is what I experienced, so it's not true or false, but it's a central creation force that I experienced. There was, you know, it didn't have any rules or laws or...

Speaker 1

03:20

Did you get a sense of what this whole thing is supposed to be? Like, what are we doing? Like, if there's a central creation force and you interact with it, like, what does it want?

Speaker 1

03:30

What does it want from us? And what is it doing with, like, life?

Speaker 2

03:34

I, My experience, this was from the Bufo, not Ayahuasca, which is amazing. Bufo's just too rough for me. I was drowning on incomprehensibility.

Speaker 2

03:49

I don't think it's comprehensible what the purpose is. That's my experience. I didn't even get love from it. I didn't get hate, I didn't get venom.

Speaker 2

04:00

Yeah, I just got indifference. I just got

Speaker 1

04:02

like super powerful

Speaker 2

04:03

just power force. Yeah, just force It felt magnetic in a weird way.

Speaker 1

04:09

So is bufo 5 methoxy

Speaker 2

04:12

Yeah, it's 5 Yeah, 5m. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1

04:15

Yeah, that is a very different feeling. That's a very different experience. I thought that 1 I really thought it was gone I thought I died.

Speaker 2

04:22

I mean it dude. I didn't even when I was here last time. I wasn't totally yeah Recovered

Speaker 1

04:28

I feel like there's some sort of trend in life and in the cosmos of things getting more complex. And I'm not the first person to point this out either. But with human beings in particular, everything is about technological innovation and things becoming more and more complexed and information being more and more accessible and being more and more connected with each other.

Speaker 1

04:57

It seems like a really, really obvious trend. And if you play that trend out, you know, a thousand years, a hundred thousand years, a million years, like where, where is that going? Is that going on all over the universe? And is that what God's doing?

Speaker 1

05:13

Is God all about this constant state of improvement that it goes on forever until you reach like literally like a godlike being.

Speaker 2

05:24

Yeah yeah that's the thing with with I had a few kind of rapture experience like ish rapture ish I just get the feeling that if if like when If there was a rapture or whatever I just think people will go wow this was we fucking were really worried about the wrong shit for sure like beyond even our comprehend like Beyond our be so far past what we were like not even worried about Fucking or war or any of that stuff. It's like dude. It's just about this energy Yeah field that I Couldn't make heads or tails of in terms of like we're supposed to?

Speaker 1

06:17

Well, if you think of amoebas, if you think of single-celled organisms, they eventually become multi-celled organisms. They develop the ability to move around, and they come on shore, and they evolve and change, and this goes on forever and ever and ever. And then 1 day in 2022, they're us.

Speaker 1

06:35

That's what we are. We're the most advanced form that we're aware of of that thing. If that keeps going, maybe that is what creates the universe itself. Maybe the universe is making itself through us.

Speaker 1

06:47

We're just in this amoeba stage, and we can't even comprehend it. To us, it's like, what are you talking about? We're gonna change the world? Like, imagine an amoeba being born in the bottom of a volcano silo, you know, in the bottom of the ocean.

Speaker 2

06:58

I felt like an amoeba on 5-a-mil.

Speaker 1

07:00

Yeah, well, you basically probably are. I think we probably all are a version of that in comparison to this ultimate thing that we're going to become. If we do keep evolving, if evolution is a real thing, and it did go from single-celled organisms to what we see now in human beings, if you just keep going, that should get to some place of impossible energy and power and maybe the universe itself.

Speaker 1

07:27

Maybe that's what it's made out of. Maybe that's how we make things like stars and maybe the universe itself is born out of this and we're just this really tiny stage, this amoeba-like stage that will ultimately become the God force of the universe. Maybe that's our ultimate transition between a physical being into this thing of energy and love and light and power and indifference in many ways to our own plights because it's necessary to achieve this purpose. Like all of our bullshit and maybe all of our struggles and maybe all of our Debates about things and trying to figure out what's white and what's wrong whose philosophy is correct and whose behavior is correct Maybe all of that is just trying to get us to that ultimate stage where we're going to be And that's what happens everywhere in the universe.

Speaker 1

08:17

That's the universe creating itself everywhere all over the place when things get and they have a certain amount of troubles that they have to deal with whether it's tribal invasions or super volcanoes and Figure it out Get to a point where you can become the next thing.

Speaker 2

08:34

Yeah, I mean. And then

Speaker 1

08:35

on and on and on and on and on forever.

Speaker 2

08:37

Yeah, I mean that's, I would, my, especially my 5 MEO Experience was about having no sense of order whatsoever Meaning I was an amoeba. I didn't know what breathing was. I don't know what direction was.

Speaker 2

08:54

I don't know what site was I didn't know fucking Anything. Yeah, and I was I was drowning on I don't know any I don't know what a thought is It was really Incredibly different like

Speaker 1

09:07

it's hard

Speaker 2

09:08

beyond and so that's what I've come away from 1 of the things have come away with from it with is is this sense of like we're just trying to order things more than anything. Like, that's our number 1 sort of human priority because it's like the best way to survive. And I feel like we're ordering for the wrong stuff a lot of the time, but it's inevitable.

Speaker 2

09:30

You