- Gimlet Media sources stories for their podcasts through a combination of internal teams and external pitches.
- The teams have their own editorial processes and source stories by reading widely, talking to people, and staying curious about the world.
- Sourcing podcasts is different and requires a balance between specificity and openness, allowing for a variety of stories to be told.
- Podcasts come to Gimlet through internal ideas, external pitches, and acquiring existing shows.
- When considering acquisitions, Gimlet looks for shows that have a good fit and potential for growth.
- They focus on finding hosts with vision, expertise, and leadership abilities.
- There is no analytical process for picking shows, as Gimlet relies on the human capital of the hosts.
- Acquisitions like Science Vs and The Pitch have been successful in expanding their audiences and providing support to the hosts.
- Gimlet looks for creativity, ability to get things done, curiosity, sense of humor, and empathy in potential employees.
- They value a desire to understand and bring attention to various issues, regardless of political leaning.

- The speaker discusses the perception of NPR and its audience as left-leaning, but acknowledges that there is a significant conservative listenership as well.
- They mention a show about the Civil War that features predominantly black voices, which is seen as fresh and new in a conversation that often excludes black perspectives.
- The speaker expresses a desire to use their media platform to represent voices that are often not heard in the media.
- They mention three reasons why people listen to podcasts: companionship, storytelling, and learning.
- The speaker believes that the podcast industry has changed rapidly in recent years, with increased mainstream awareness and more content creators entering the space.

- Podcasting has become more mainstream with increased awareness and advertising dollars flowing into the industry.
- Platforms like Spotify, TuneIn, and Apple are paying more attention to podcasting and competing for content deals.
- Distribution is difficult and competitive, requiring a robust marketing strategy.
- The landscape has become more crowded, particularly with political shows like Pod Save America and The Daily gaining popularity.
- Building a podcast audience requires finding new listeners and utilizing platforms like YouTube for marketing.
- Audio content competes with other audio and music, but lacks the same sharing mechanisms as visual media.
- Sharing audio content is challenging because it is consumed in a different way and often requires context.
- Gimlet Media, a podcast company, initially focused on its editorial strengths rather than technology, but has recently hired a head of product.

- The company has hired someone ahead of product and is focusing on using technology, but the specific approach is still undecided.
- Building their own platform seems unlikely as bigger players like Spotify and Apple are now paying attention to the podcast space.
- Individual podcast hosts are not incentivized to be captured by platforms and can distribute their content through various channels.
- The company wants to establish a more direct connection with listeners, but the mechanism is still uncertain.
- The availability of more analytics in the podcast landscape is both a concern and an opportunity for advertisers.
- The company already has access to some analytics and believes that better analytics will benefit the advertising landscape.
- True crime podcasts have been popular since Serial, and there is room for various types of content in the podcasting landscape.
- The company is transitioning some audio content into video, with projects in the works and partnerships with platforms like Amazon.
- The decision to end certain projects is based on sustainability and the ability to produce content at a certain frequency.
- Highly produced content can reach a different audience, but there are exceptions like successful talk shows that are not as time-consuming to produce.
- Editing audio podcasts can make conversations appear smarter and funnier, but controlling energy in a room for video conversations is a learning experience.
- If a concept cannot be sustained and released a certain number of times a year, it is not viable for the company.

- The importance of sustainability and passion in podcasting is discussed.
- The example of a podcast called Sampler is given, where the host was not passionate about the subject and the podcast did not perform well.
- The importance of bringing energy and a strong vibe to a podcast is emphasized.
- The misconception that podcasts are just people talking and joking around is addressed.
- Resources for learning about podcasting, such as online courses and websites like Transom.org, are mentioned.
- The importance of copying and learning from admired podcasters is emphasized.
- Interviewing strategies for podcasting, such as eliciting stories and emotional honesty, are discussed.
- The importance of listening and asking great questions in interviews is highlighted.
- An example of a successful podcast called "The Giant Pool of Money" is mentioned.

The speaker discusses how banks loaned money to individuals without considering their financial situation. He shares an anecdote about someone who wouldn't have loaned themselves money and emphasizes the importance of asking the right questions in interviews. The speaker concludes by emphasizing the role of the interviewer in creating an engaging audio experience.

- Gimlet Media sources stories for their podcasts through internal teams and external pitches.
- They value finding hosts with vision, expertise, and leadership abilities.
- Acquisitions of shows like Science Vs and The Pitch have been successful for expanding audiences.
- Gimlet looks for creativity, curiosity, and empathy in potential employees.
- They aim to represent voices that are often unheard in the media.
- The podcast industry has rapidly changed with increased mainstream awareness and competition.
- Distribution and marketing are challenging in the crowded podcast landscape.
- Gimlet is focusing on using technology but is undecided on the specific approach.
- Analytics in the podcast landscape are both a concern and an opportunity for advertisers.
- True crime podcasts have been popular, but there is room for various types of content.
- Gimlet is transitioning some audio content into video and ending projects based on sustainability.
- The importance of sustainability, passion, and energy in podcasting is emphasized.
- Resources for learning about podcasting and interviewing strategies are mentioned.

Alex Blumberg - https://twitter.com/abexlumberg - is the cofounder of Gimlet Media - https://gimletmedia.com/. Gimlet makes several podcasts you’ve probably heard of–StartUp, The Pitch, and Reply All are a few.

Before Gimlet Alex worked on This American Life and Planet Money.

The YC podcast is hosted by Craig Cannon -  https://twitter.com/craigcannon

Maybe the best place to start is, which seemingly was the most common question.

Roe asked it and a couple other people on Twitter.

That's a really, that's a really good question.

And it's 1 that we're, we're sort of working to answer sort of more, systematically.

So right now, stories have come like sort of like, well, store it like, So part of it, part of it's like we're not sourcing stories, we're sourcing podcasts.

So on 1 level, the people who are sourcing stories are the actual teams themselves.

So like the Nod, 1 of our podcasts, it has this whole editorial process around finding stories that they're going to do.

And startup has a whole editorial process and Reply All has a whole editorial process.

And those teams know sort of like what their shows are about and what their audiences are into.

And it's sort of a normal process of just sort of like reading widely, talking to people on the phone, going out, hearing stories at cocktail parties, whatever it is, you know, and it's sort of like finding something in the news that piques your interest in making some phone calls.

Like that's always that's That's the way stories are sort of like, there's no magic formula to it.

You just, you sort of try to be curious to the world.

So then thinking about sourcing podcasts, are people pitching you?

So sourcing podcasts is a very different thing because it needs to be sort of like, it's like, it's not the actual plot line.

It's the, it's the sort of like, I, I remember this, somebody I, for a while, like somebody at, at this American life was, was friends with 1 of the people who started friends, the TV show friends.

And she was on the show a couple of times.

And I remember, I think somebody was telling me a secondhand story about how she talked about sort of coming up with the idea for Friends.

And she was like, starting a TV show is like, you want it to be just specific enough so that there's something that you can remember about it, but then also very, very open.

And basically you always need a couch sort of like where action can happen, you know?

And, and so I feel like, like sourcing a podcast is sort of similar to that.

You need like what's it needs to be about something, but it can't be, the concept can't be too binding.

Otherwise you're not going to be able to find enough stories to sort of keep it going.

Now sometimes it can be sort of a limited series And we do a couple of those and we're, and like, we're, we go back and forth on sort of like what the model is for that.

And can they, you know, can they be profitable or not?

So some of it goes back to economics, but if like the basic unit is this, is the regularly occurring sort of weekly or almost weekly podcast.

Like let's say that's the basic sort of like template of podcasting.

Those come to us a couple different ways.

Sometimes people inside the company have ideas and we'll sort of do a piloting process to try to see if we can sort of make it.

Sometimes we will acquire shows that already exist out in the world.

And we've done that and we've done it a bunch of different ways.

Yeah, because It's sort of, it's not all that different from, you know, someone interested in doing a startup sizing a market.

And so when someone pitches you an idea, are you like, intuitively, this feels like it has legs or do you do any kind of like analytical process around the picking a show?

We don't do any kind of analytical process around it.

And, and, and partly because it's not like it's, it's like we don't right now, the, the, the, the, sort of like the main, the capital that we need to start a show is human capital.

We need somebody who has a vision, has expertise, and can make it happen.

So we need somebody who can take it and run.

And so a lot of times what we're looking for is somebody who, who, who has a vision.

Like that's, that's, it's like sort of like the, the, the startup equivalent is sort of you bet on the founder.

I think that's even more the case in podcasting if, if, if that's possible, just like, cause, and that was 1 of the mistakes I made early on is sort of like, I had a background in doing this.

I'd helped start planet money with Adam Davidson.

Like I had like this experience doing this.

And so I sort of just thought that like, okay, I can, I can sort of help start all these other ones, but I don't have enough time or bandwidth to be involved with in more than 1 or 2?

And if the company's growing, I don't have any bandwidth to do that anyway.

So we need people, showrunner types or hosts who can lead the vision.

And so that's a complicated set of qualities.

You need, they need skill, they need sort of like, they need a vision, they need leadership ability.

And what do you look for in an acquisition, aside from content and, you know, kind of founders, hosts that you believe in, are there particular numbers that you look for when you're going to, you're going to make an acquisition?

I mean, we're looking for somebody who could, who could be a good fit.

Obviously we're looking for somebody who pops.

So like Wendy Zuckerman is a good example.

Like that was a that was a show that we acquired.

She had her show is called Science Versus.

And that was something that she was doing out of Australia.

And we heard it and what it, so she had a pretty good audience on her own, like that she'd sort of built more or less independently with just her and her producer, Caitlin.

Can you talk about that specifically, like roughly what that was?

Yeah, so we heard it, we really, like she was just like clearly like Just like a magnetic.

Yeah, right like she's just like she's so funny so smart just so so engaging and The premise seemed really good We talked to her about like sort of like what her audience was like and it was pretty it was pretty solid especially given that she'd been doing it all by herself.

No, I mean, I think If you've gotten up to 100,000 independently, you're doing really well.

So it was like, and so we're looking for some, like if you're, but if you're getting, if you're somewhere in that, you know, sort of getting close to that number independently, that's a pretty good sign.

And then it's just a matter of how much can we help?

How many more people can we expose you to?

How much can we help with marketing and stuff?

We were able to sort of like take her audience and sort of multiple it several times over and surround her with a team to make it possible for her to get more work out at a quality that she was striving for.

But just like by herself was really, really hard to get to.

She didn't have the luxury of auditioning different experts on a topic and finding the best 1.

She had to go with the expert that she got and sometimes they were just dry as dust and so that shows in the product.

So if she can sort of cycle through a couple experts until she finds the 1 who's more engaging to talk to, that's a win.

It's such a huge advantage, because I previously before YC was doing a podcast on my own with my friend, and we were fortunate in that we knew someone at MailChimp, so they would help out, And that's great, but it really becomes a grind when you're doing it on your own.

So observing you guys from afar, I was like, oh my God, this is such a perfect opportunity to start acquiring content.

Because as a sole creator, you have like no support behind you.

Well, and that's exactly so that so our latest acquisition is the pitch.

Yeah, I'm sure your listeners are familiar with and and that's that's a perfect example of that.

Like Josh Muccio, you know, started this podcast sort of like by himself out of his him and his wife sort of working from his house in Florida.

And he's exactly like, he's got this drive.

He's got a vision for what he's trying to do.

He's read every single thing that's ever been put up on Transom, the radio website.

And he was just ready, you know, to sort of like have, you know, take it further and like sort of go to the next, next level with, with his show.

And so that's, it was just like, it seemed like a very obvious sort of fit.

What about someone who's, you know, maybe just graduating college and wants to work at Gimlet?

Like what are the qualities you look for in them to be like, oh man you might be, you might have a fit here?

We're looking for, so we're looking for A couple of things.

We're looking for the ability to get shit done.

A lot of times with a lot of the jobs that we do, we'll have like some sort of like AAAA, like a sort of a homework assignment that we'll give people sort of like a trial, you know, sort of like edit this interview or sort of like, you know, sort of like give us, you know, sort of like critique this story, something like that, just to sort of get a sense of how they think editorially.

Sense of humor, you know, we just, we, and, and empathy is like a big, big part of, of, of what we believe is important.

you have to, you, you have to be motivated by a desire to, to understand, you know, as much as a desire as any other desire.

Like sometimes a lot of people get into sort of like this line of work for a variety of reasons.

Sometimes it's like they really wanna, like they feel passionately about an issue and they wanna sort of bring attention to that issue.

All that is true, but we want it to be, you know, so it proceed from curiosity and understanding.

And are you guys kind of agnostic to what issue that is?

Because historically I always thought NPR and then, you know, all the NPR diaspora, like people working on their own content, had a certain type of generally like left leaning audience that fit into Brooklyn or wherever.

Do you guys care for like, you know, it's completely different than that?

So This is, I mean, I think honestly, this is a sort of a complicated issue now for media companies that I'm trying to grapple with.

Like I feel like at NPR, we were perceived as being liberal And probably like the majority of the people working there would sort of like call themselves liberal.

But we really did strive for objectivity or at least trying to understand both sides of the issue.

We would never just sort of like, you know.

And I think the listenership wasn't as like, I think it was pretty even, it wasn't like it wasn't down the middle.

But there was something like 30 to 40 percent of the listeners were identified as conservative.

And it was a pretty big, you should check

But it's, it was, it's a, when people hear it, it's a surprising number

And certainly the feedback I get, like, you know, sort of like for the first season of startup, you know, it was like, it seemed like pretty, you know, sort of like evangelical pastors and sort of like Brooklyn hipsters and everybody in between, we're listening to, to, to start up.

And I think, you know, and we'll still like occasionally, like on reply all there was like, they, they had a, they, they had something that sort of like, let listeners understand how 1 of them felt about Trump.

You know, and we received a couple of letters saying like, I voted for Trump, like I love the show, why are you, you know, sort of like, why are you saying that?

So it's like, it's not, I don't think, so I don't, I don't.

Like, I feel like I understand there's like, I, it's tricky.

There's like, a lot of fear and anger, and especially among communities that are not white, right?

Like especially, like, and I think, and so I, and I wanna give voice to that, you know what I mean?

I think we do live in a racist society, and there is white supremacy, and that is real.

And it's not a political statement, it's a fact, and it's based on historical things that happened, and 400 years of slavery, and a civil war that we never dealt with.

And like, you know, and so like, that is all, that's not political in my mind to say that.

And so when you, and so when you, so 1 of our shows is a show about the Civil War.

And I'm shocked by how, when I listen to it, by how fresh and unusual it sounds.

We just did, the most recent episode was called The Takedown and it was sort of like, it was a live show that they put on at the Bell House.

Like it featured Nicole Hannah-Jones, who just won a MacArthur grant, Al Letson, who's like a prominent podcast host and Christie Coleman, the CEO of the, of the, the CEO, the CEO of the American civil war museum.

And then the host Chenjerai Kumanyika and, and the, and his other host, Jack Hitt.

And what was, and it was like, it was sort of like, they were talking about the, the, the, the, sort of the most pervasive myths about the civil war that they constantly encounter on Twitter.

And what was, and the shocking thing that felt so fresh and new about it was that 4 of the 5 people on the stage were black.

And like, that almost never happens, you know, in conversations about the Civil War, which was about slavery, you know?

And by the way, that's 1 of the myths, that it wasn't about slavery.

And like, that's sort of crazy that like, you have so much conversation about the Civil War and how often black voices are not represented in that conversation when black people in America were at the center of the conflict and the legacy of America results from the Civil War.

And so that, I know that, and I know people listen to that.

And every once in a while, we'll get a comment like, that feels political to people.

And I guess it is, but it just feels like true.

4 of the 5 intellectuals on stage talking about the civil war black, and that feels new and revelatory.

So yeah, so I, so, so, and I think I have a media company now And there are a lot of voices that don't get represented in media.

And it feels like, yeah, I wanna use that platform to help represent those voices.

Right, because I've kind of been wondering how you're driven.

Obviously there are podcasts like that 1, maybe like Dan Carlin, Hardcore History, that are super educational.

And where you guys are kind of drawing the line in terms of like, this is our mission, we're educating about certain issues, or it's just about compelling storytelling, or maybe it's something else entirely.

Like, do you guys have a defined goal as to what your products are and what they do?

Right, I don't, so we don't, like I would never wanna say that like, I mean, we take engagement very seriously.

So anything that is like, it was really informative, but it wasn't very fun to listen to, like that's a lose.

You definitely want to be, I don't want people to feel like they should listen to it, but they don't want to.

You want to be like the Thomas Piketty of podcasting.

But I feel like the way I think about it is sort of like, there's like, I think there's 3 big buckets of why people listen to podcasts.

1 of them is to just be, 1 of them is because they, is for companionship.

Like they like the hosts and like it's fun to hang out with them.

And like there's a whole bunch of podcasts that are like that.

Like Joe Rogan I think is a great example.

Like, right, like just people, Howard Stern, oh, like Rush, you know, sort of like Glenn, there's like, you feel like, oh, they're your buddy, you know, we're all talking together and it's fun to hang out with you And you guys are funny.

And like, and even like the slate gab fest, a lot of those are sort of like, there's, there's this sort of, I, these are friends that I, they feel like friends, the hosts.

Second, I think they just want to be told a good, a good gripping story.

been telling stories to each other since we came up with the ability to speak.

And like podcasting is just a sort of extension of that.

And so like, I feel like you get Dirty John, a lot of the big,

a lot of our stuff, a lot of like the sort of like S-Town, you know, it was just sort of like, like just narrative, like the bulk of it is just narrative.

And then the third big bucket is like, they want to learn something.

So a lot of, so podcasting is 1 of the things that you can do while you're not doing something else.

So you're cleaning the house or working out or, you know, sort of like, you know, driving to work or whatever.

And it's, it, you feel like, oh, I'm multitasking now in a way that feels productive.

And so like, you know, like a big example.

And so, so learning, I think is a big use case for podcasting.

So we just try to figure out like, okay, what are we doing?

And right now we've, we, and we try to do all of them.

Like the, the big ones can sort of bring storytelling, bring that companionship and bring something that you learn.

And those feel like, you know, and I feel like Reply often does that.

They definitely have the companionship and they definitely have the storytelling down.

A lot of times you're learning something along the way as well.

A lot of our podcasts are doing, are trying to do all 3 and might focus more on 1 or the other.

So a lot of our listeners are also founders and are also thinking about spaces as both just like interesting, but markets where they could potentially build something.

So maybe it does make a little bit of sense to talk about the podcast industry more specifically and just the content stuff.

How has it changed since you started and where do you see it going given like the, current proliferation of like audio stuff in your home, AirPods, all that kind of stuff.

So it's, I mean, it's changed quite a bit.

Like, I think it has changed much more quickly than I thought.

Like, I was in this for a long time, you know, like starting, like I remember when we first put our, first put out this American life as a podcast and there was like, I think, I don't know, 5,000 people listened to it or something like that, you know?

And then, you know, sort of like I was doing planet money for like 5 years before leaving.

And, and, and so, And just sort of like, it was like sort of changing and evolving and growing, but not at the clip.

And then sort of like, then we started and C-Real came along and then boom, man, everything just like sort of, I think, I think in large part because of C-Real, in large part because of us, I think.

And then just sort of timing, like all the ones who were already there were sort of like started picking up and it just became just a lot more mainstream awareness, a lot more advertising dollars flowing into it and a lot more content creators coming on board.

It changes things a little bit like in terms of sort of like you've got to bring your A game when it comes to sort of like content but also sort of like have a have a much more robust marketing strategy when you know it becomes a little bit more sort of like a traditional media company where you got to figure out what's your marketing plan, who are your partners, and sort of rolling it out, that sort of thing.

I think people are paying more attention to it.

Like the platforms are paying a lot more attention to it now.

So like Spotify, TuneIn, and of course Apple.

Apple was the dominant, just sort of like by accident they created the category.

And it sort of created this whole ecosystem.

But the ecosystem, even though it was getting larger by our standards, by Apple standards, was still a tiny rounding error.

And now it's gotten beyond rounding error status.

And so they're starting to pay attention as well.

Which is all, I think now the platforms are starting to compete a little bit and you see deals around content happening and that sort of thing.

Because distribution is so difficult still.

I mean, it's been hard, but now it's both hard to discover and competitive.

And so what do you guys do when you have a brand new show and you're like, we need to start this out with I don't know like whatever your benchmark is for like a good amount of listeners in the beginning.

Like we used to be that we didn't have to do as much.

You know I think the landscape has gotten more crowded.

I think also, like, politics has become a much bigger storyline.

And you've got shows coming out like Pod Save America and The Daily that have brought a lot of new people into podcasting.

But like, it's like, you know, they're focused on sort of like the craziest story that's happening right now, which is sort of like the presidency.

But what we do is what We have a nice network now of listeners, and we have millions of unique listeners now that we can put new shows in front of.

We also need to start finding other audiences.

So like we have, you know, sort of millions of unique listeners.

But then there's like lots of other people who sort of would listen, but don't know about podcasting or don't know.

And so, and those people are like sort of like they're, they are, there's like this continual drift, right?

But, that just takes more work and it's just sort of like a longer sort of like, it's like, you've got to give shows time basically.

Part of it is you've got to get the editorial sort of cranking.

See all Y Combinator transcripts on Youtube

Alex Blumberg of Gimlet Media