Introduction to Andrew Huberman and his work, including the upcoming book Protocols, an operating manual for the human body.

Introduction to Andrew Huberman

Transition from skateboarding to science and podcasting, discussing the observation of skateboarders and the pivot to supporting young talent in science and podcasting.

Transition from Skateboarding to Science and Podcasting

Discussion about scouting talent for podcasting, launching new podcasts, and the future of podcasting.

Scouting Talent for Podcasting

Reflections on walking away from endeavors and returning, with examples from John Stewart, Dave Chappelle, and Habib.

Reflections on Walking Away and Returning

Discussion on the growth and future plans for the podcast, including short form content and exploring other venues besides podcasting.

Growth and Future Plans for the Podcast

Reflections on mentoring and legacy in science and podcasting, drawing parallels between skateboarding and science, and the importance of being a good mentor.

Mentoring and Legacy in Science and Podcasting

Exploration of inner reflection and creative inspiration in artists and creatives, including the practice of stilling the body while keeping the mind active.

Artists and Creatives' Inner Reflection

Discussion on the relationship between sleep, dreams, and creativity, including insights from physicists and mathematicians, and the impact of sleep on creativity.

Sleep, Dreams, and Creativity

Controversy and discussion on cannabis, addressing potential risks and benefits, and the response to criticism from the cannabis research field.

Controversy and Discussion on Cannabis

Reflections on navigating online controversy and etiquette, and the importance of respectful and constructive discourse in the scientific community.

Navigating Online Controversy and Etiquette

Discussion on inviting a controversial guest for a podcast episode, and the potential for constructive dialogue and exchange of ideas.

Inviting Controversial Guest for Discussion

Reflections on confrontational behavior in academia and online discourse, and the importance of respectful engagement in scientific discussions.

Reflections on Confrontational Behavior

Reflections on the impact of James Hollis' wisdom and the importance of capturing his insights for a podcast episode.

Impact of James Hollis' Wisdom

Exploration of the shadow, self-analysis, and the importance of recognizing and understanding the hidden aspects of the self.

Exploration of the Shadow and Self-Analysis

Exploration of creative inspiration and practices, including engaging in activities that are slightly off center from the main creative outlet to stimulate new ideas.

Creative Inspiration and Practices

Discussion on the power of emptiness and silence for cognitive enhancement, including the practice of waiting and silence for problem-solving and creativity.

Emptiness and Silence for Cognitive Enhancement

Discussion about hydration, Yerba Mate, and workout routines

Hydration and Workout

Discussion about peptides, experimentation, and hormone pathways

Peptides and Experimentation

Discussion about nicotine, its effects, and personal experiences with Nicorette

Nicotine and Focus

Discussion about a math error, teaching moments, and academic experiences

Math Error and Teaching Moment

Discussion about the effects of exercise on energy levels and circadian rhythms

Exercise and Energy

Discussion about online mistakes, corrections, and the nature of errors on the internet

Online Mistakes and Corrections

Discussion about oral health, misconceptions, and community reactions

Oral Health and Misconceptions

Discussion about Ozempic Monjaro, its controversy, and pharmaceutical vs. supplement stigma

Ozempic Monjaro and Controversy

Discussion about the role of podcasts in the presidential election and the desire for long-form conversations with candidates

Podcast Role in Election

Discussion about the importance of getting to know political figures in a different way and the potential for long-form interviews.

Getting to Know Political Figures

Observations about the political leanings of individuals in entertainment circles and the upcoming presidential race.

Political Leanings in Entertainment Circles

Discussion about the political center, the upcoming presidential race, and the search for future political candidates.

The Center and Future Political Candidates

Engaging experiences with sharks during underwater research and the use of VR in studying marine life.

Shark Encounters and Underwater Research

Exploration of time perception, experiences with psychedelics, and the value of relaxation in challenging situations.

Time Perception and Psychedelic Experiences

Interest in Ibogaine, conservation efforts, and the use of animation for science content.

Ibogaine and Conservation Efforts

Personal priorities, including writing a book, spending time with family, and the pursuit of love and family.

Personal Priorities and Future Goals

Discussion about the value of kids and family, and advice on parenting and partner selection.

Parenting Advice

Reflections on the richness of sibling relationships and the importance of family dynamics.

Sibling Bond

Exploration of childhood experiences, the impact of digital interaction, and the desire to live in different environments.

Childhood and Upbringing

Insights into daily habits, deep work, and the balance between social interaction and productivity.

Daily Habits and Deep Work

Discussion on friendship, loyalty, and the value of hardship in relationships.

Friendship and Loyalty

# **Exploring the Depths of the Mind and Creativity**

## **New Podcasts and Mentoring the Next Generation**
- Andrew Huberman shares insights from his experience in skateboarding and science, emphasizing the importance of mentoring the next generation in various fields.
- His company, Sci-Con Media, is launching a new podcast called Perform with Dr. Andy Galpin, focusing on finding highly qualified talent in science and health-related fields.

## **Challenges and Growth in Podcasting**
- Andrew discusses the growth and expansion of the podcasting industry, including plans for short-form content and exploring new venues besides podcasting.
- The conversation delves into the controversy surrounding a previous episode on cannabis and the importance of engaging in respectful discussions about scientific content.

## **The Wisdom of James Hollis and Exploring the Shadow**
- The conversation with James Hollis, a Jungian psychoanalyst, is highlighted as a pivotal moment in the podcast, emphasizing the importance of introspection and self-reflection.
- The concept of the shadow, the good and the bad that we repress, is discussed, shedding light on the depths of the human psyche.

## **Tapping into Creativity and Ideas**
- Andrew shares his practices for tapping into creativity, including exploring practices such as drawing and painting, which lead to new ideas and areas of exploration for the podcast.
- The importance of finding creative outlets that are slightly off-center from one's main focus is emphasized as a way to access new perspectives and ideas.

## **The Power of Emptiness and Silence**
- The conversation shifts to the power of emptiness and silence in fostering creativity and problem-solving, highlighting the importance of allowing space for new ideas to emerge.
- Andrew's approach to cognitive enhancement and the diverse choices in his refrigerator are mentioned, reflecting his commitment to exploring different avenues for inspiration.

## **The Science of Nutrition and Health**
- Andrew delves into the topic of nutrition, discussing the benefits of certain food and supplements for overall health and cognitive function.
- He emphasizes the importance of understanding the science behind various dietary choices and the need for respectful discourse in the health and wellness community.

## **Exploring the Political Landscape and Nature's Wonders**
- The conversation takes a turn to discuss the current political landscape and the surprising diversity of political leanings among different groups.
- The discussion also highlights the beauty of nature, with a focus on the stunning portraits of animals captured by Joel Sartore and the importance of conservation efforts.

## **Personal Growth and Reflection**
- Andrew shares his experiences with personal growth and reflection, emphasizing the importance of surrounding oneself with loyal and supportive individuals.
- The conversation delves into the challenges of balancing deep work and social interaction, highlighting the need for intentional choices in allocating time and energy.

*The conversation with Andrew Huberman delves into the depths of the mind and creativity, highlighting the importance of mentorship, self-reflection, and finding unique pathways to tap into new ideas. As the podcast continues to evolve, it remains a platform for insightful conversations that inspire growth and exploration.*

"Unlocking Creativity and Mentorship Insights with Andrew Huberman"

Protocols, an operating manual for the human body

They have significant reach when they put out a podcast

He discovered James Hollis in an online lecture about relationships and creating a life

He discovered James Hollis in an online lecture about the shadow

He discovered James Hollis in an online lecture about neuroscience

He discovered James Hollis in an online lecture about autonomic control

How James Hollis quoted Shakespeare and Jung

How James Hollis talked about autonomic control

How James Hollis talked about the shadow and developmental upbringing

How James Hollis talked about neuroscience

A math error related to cumulative probability

A factual error about the pituitary gland

The relationship between oral health and heart health and brain health

The structure of teeth and the importance of fluoride

The controversy surrounding different types of sunscreen

People's political leanings are often exactly wrong

The closeness of most people to the center

Who wants to live in the 12-hour news cycle

Who is going to be the next big candidate in years to come

Being careful with how you allocate your time

- The conversation is with Andrew Huberman, a scientist and host of the Huberman Lab podcast.
- He discusses the importance of knowing when to walk away from a career and mentor the next generation.
- Huberman also talks about the practice of stilling the body while keeping the mind active, similar to rapid eye movement sleep.
- The conversation touches on examples of great minds finding inspiration in different states of body and mind.

- The speaker discusses the rebound in rapid eye movement sleep after sleep deprivation
- There was controversy surrounding an episode on cannabis, leading to a debate with a scientist online
- The speaker invited the scientist to come on the podcast to discuss the issue
- The conversation with the scientist is scheduled and the speaker hopes to promote respectful scientific discourse
- The speaker emphasizes the importance of humility and respectful behavior, especially in online interactions and scientific discussions

- The speaker is scouting podcasters based on their energy and how they treat others
- He had a profound impact from a conversation with Jungian psychoanalyst James Hollis
- Hollis discussed the importance of accessing the unconscious mind and the concept of the shadow
- The speaker also discusses his own creative process and the importance of silence and emptiness
- He also talks about Tim Armstrong's creative process and the importance of engaging in different creative outlets
- The speaker believes in the power of waiting and silence for problem-solving
- He also discusses his collection of cognitive enhancers in his refrigerator

- The speaker discusses various drinks and supplements he uses for hydration and energy, including Element, Yerba Mate, coffee with cocoa, and Nicorette.
- He also talks about his experimentation with peptides and the potential risks and benefits of using them.
- The speaker limits his use of Nicorette to two pieces per week and warns against frequent use, especially for young people.
- He emphasizes the importance of caffeine in his daily routine and suggests delaying consumption in the morning to offset afternoon crashes.
- The speaker also shares his observation that exercising early in the morning gives him lasting energy throughout the day, while exercising later in the morning leaves him exhausted in the afternoon.

- The speaker discusses the benefits of exercising and engaging in activities at specific times of the day to improve brain function
- He admits to making a math error in a podcast episode and uses it as a teaching moment
- The speaker also talks about the pressure of not making mistakes and the importance of fact-checking with experts
- He mentions the relationship between oral health, heart health, and brain health, and the potential consequences of poor oral hygiene

- The speaker discusses the ability of saliva to remineralize teeth and the importance of providing the right substrates for this process
- They also talk about the controversy surrounding certain health topics, such as sunscreen and supplements, and the need to consider different perspectives
- The speaker expresses a desire for more reasonable and nuanced discussions in both health and politics
- They emphasize the value of long-form conversations, particularly in the context of political interviews, and praise Joe Rogan's skill in this area

- The speaker discusses the importance of getting to know political candidates in a different way
- They talk about the surprising political leanings of people in the entertainment industry
- The conversation then shifts to a discussion about sharks and shark attacks
- The speaker shares a personal experience with great white sharks and discusses the behavior of the sharks
- They also mention a tragic shark attack in Northern California

- Andrew Huberman, scientist and podcast host, discusses the importance of knowing when to walk away from a career and mentor the next generation
- He talks about the practice of stilling the body while keeping the mind active, similar to rapid eye movement sleep
- Examples of great minds finding inspiration in different states of body and mind are mentioned
- Controversy surrounding an episode on cannabis led to a debate with a scientist online, and the speaker invited the scientist to come on the podcast to discuss the issue
- The importance of humility and respectful behavior in scientific discourse is emphasized
- The speaker discusses his own creative process, the power of waiting and silence for problem-solving, and his collection of cognitive enhancers
- He also talks about various drinks and supplements he uses for hydration and energy, including Nicorette, peptides, and caffeine
- The benefits of exercising and engaging in activities at specific times of the day to improve brain function are discussed
- The relationship between oral health, heart health, and brain health is mentioned, along with the controversy surrounding certain health topics
- The value of long-form conversations, particularly in the context of political interviews, is emphasized
- The conversation also includes a discussion about sharks and shark attacks, including a personal experience with great white sharks and a tragic shark attack in Northern California.

- The speaker discusses the low probability of shark attacks and compares the agility and bite force of sharks and saltwater crocodiles
- They also talk about their experience with ayahuasca and the effects of psychedelics on time perception
- The speaker expresses interest in ibogaine and its potential for treating PTSD in veterans
- They mention research on ibogaine in Kentucky as a potential solution for the opioid crisis

- Kentucky planned to use opioid crisis settlement money for Ibogaine research, but later backed away from the plan
- $50 billion in funding is on its way to state and local governments from legal settlements with pharmaceutical companies
- The conversation also touches on topics such as animal conservation, Sesame Street characters, and personal bucket list items, including writing a book and starting a family

- The speaker discusses the importance of family and parenting, emphasizing the advice to choose a partner carefully and the joy of raising children.
- They also talk about their desire to live in both a major city and a rural area, and their daily habits and focus on productivity.
- The speaker values deep focus and the importance of choosing the right business partners and friends.

- The speaker discusses the importance of collaborating with a great team and making careful decisions with sponsors
- He talks about the challenges of balancing social interaction and deep work as an introvert
- He emphasizes the value of spending time alone and gathering with others, and the importance of selecting loyal friends
- The conversation ends with a quote from Carl Jung about making the unconscious conscious and taking control of one's life.

The speaker discusses shark attacks and compares sharks to crocodiles. They talk about their experience with psychedelics and interest in ibogaine for treating PTSD. Kentucky planned to use opioid crisis settlement money for ibogaine research, but later backed away. The conversation also touches on animal conservation, personal bucket list items, family, and productivity. The speaker emphasizes the importance of family, deep focus, and choosing the right partners and friends. They discuss the challenges of balancing social interaction and deep work as an introvert, and end with a quote from Carl Jung about taking control of one's life."""

Andrew Huberman is a neuroscientist at Stanford and host of the Huberman Lab Podcast. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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TRANSCRIPT:
https://lexfridman.com/andrew-huberman-5-transcript

EPISODE LINKS:
Andrew's YouTube: https://youtube.com/AndrewHubermanLab
Andrew's Instagram: https://instagram.com/hubermanlab
Andrew's Website: https://hubermanlab.com
Andrew's X: https://x.com/hubermanlab
Andrew's book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3RNSIQN
Andrew's book: https://hubermanlab.com/protocols-book

PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41

OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
0:50 - Quitting and evolving
7:48 - How to focus and think deeply
10:21 - Cannabis drama
20:34 - Jungian shadow
31:01 - Supplements
34:04 - Nicotine
38:27 - Caffeine
40:14 - Math gaffe
57:16 - 2024 presidential elections
1:04:13 - Great white sharks
1:12:58 - Ayahuasca & psychedelics
1:27:59 - Relationships
1:35:34 - Productivity
1:44:23 - Friendship

SOCIAL:
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- Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman
- Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman
- Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

Hardship will show you who your real friends are.

Don't eat with people you wouldn't starve with.

The following is a conversation with Andrew Huberman, his fifth time on the podcast.

He is the host of the Huberman Lab podcast and is an amazing scientist, teacher, human being, and someone I'm grateful to be able to call a close friend.

Also, he has a book coming out next year that you should pre-order now called Protocols, an operating manual for the human body.

To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description.

And now, dear friends, here's Andrew Huberman.

You think there's ever going to be a day when you walk away from podcasting?

I mean, I came up within and then on the periphery of skateboard culture.

And for the record, I was not a great skateboarder.

I would have to say that because skateboarders are relentless if you call something you didn't do or whatever.

I mean, I could do a few things and I loved the community and I still have a lot of friends in that community.

Jim Thiebaud at Deluxe, you can look him up.

He's kind of the man behind the whole scene.

I know Tony Hawk, Danny Whale, these guys, I got to see them come up and get big and stay big in many cases, start huge companies like Danny and Colin McKay's or DC.

Some people have a long life in something, some don't.

But 1 thing I observed and learned a lot from in skateboarding at the level of observing the skateboarders and then the ones that started companies.

And then what I also observed in science and still observe is you do it for a while, you do it at the highest possible level for you, and then at some point you pivot and you start supporting the young talent coming in.

In fact, the greatest scientists, people like Richard Axel, Catherine Dulock, there are many other labs in neuroscience, Karl Deisteroth, they're not just known for doing great science, they're known for mentoring some of the best scientists that then go on to start their own labs.

I think in podcasting, I am very fortunate I got in in a fairly early wave, not the earliest wave, but thanks to your suggestion of doing a podcast, fairly early wave.

I'll continue to go as long as it feels right, and I feel like I'm doing good in the world and providing good, but I'm already starting to scout talent.

My company that I started with Rob Moore, Sci-Con Media, a couple other guys in there too, Mike Blayback, our photographer Ian Mackey, Chris Ray, Martin Phobes.

Right now, that's Huberman Lab podcast, but we're launching a new podcast, Perform with Dr.

And we want to do more of that kind of thing, finding a really great talent, highly qualified people, credentialed people.

And I've got a new kind of obsession with scouring the internet, looking for the young talent in science, in health and related fields.

And so will there be a final episode of the HLP?

Yeah, I mean, Bullet Buster Cancer aside, someday they'll be the very last and thank you for your interest in science and I'll clip out.

I love the idea of walking away and not be dramatic about it.

When it feels right, you can leave and you can come back whenever the fuck you want.

John Stewart did this well with The Daily Show.

I think that was during the 2016 election when everybody wanted him to stay on and he just walked away.

Dave Chappelle, for different reasons, walked away.

And then came back and was doing like stand up in the park in the middle of nowhere.

You have Habib who Undefeated, walks away at the very top of a sport.

The last few years have been tremendous growth.

We launched in January 2021, and even this last year, 2024, has been huge growth in all sorts of ways.

We have some short form content planned, 30-minute shorter episodes that really distill down the critical elements.

We're also thinking about moving to other venues besides podcasting.

So there's always the thought and the discussion, but when it comes to like when to hang up your cleats, you know, it's like, There just comes a natural time where you can do more to mentor the next generation coming in than focusing on self.

I mean, again, I saw this in skateboarding, like Danny and Colin and Danny's brother, Damon, started DC with Ken Block, the driver who unfortunately passed away a little while ago, rally car driver.

And they eventually sold it, I think, to Quicksilver or something like that.

But they're all phenomenal talents in their respective areas, but they brought in the next line of amazing writers, the Plan B thing, you know, Paul Rodriguez.

For skateboarders, they know who this is.

Now in science, there are scientists like Feynman, for instance.

I don't know if anyone can name 1 of his mentor offspring.

So there are scientists who are phenomenal, like beyond world class, multi-generational world class, who don't make good mentors.

I'm not saying he wasn't a good mentor, but that's not what he's known for.

And then there are scientists who are known for being excellent scientists and great mentors.

And I think there's no higher celebration to be had at the end of one's career.

If you can look back and be like, hey, I've put some really important knowledge into the world.

You spawned all these other scientific offspring or sport offspring or podcast offspring.

I mean, in some ways we look to Rogan and to some of the other earlier podcasts like they paved the way.

Rhonda Patrick, first science podcast out there.

So, you know, it eventually the baton passes, but fortunately right now everybody's active and it feels really good.

Well, you're talking about the healthy way to

do it, but there's also a different kind of way where you have somebody like Grisha Grigori Perlman, the mathematician who refused to accept the Fields Medal.

So He's 1 of the greatest living mathematicians and he just walked away from mathematics and rejected the Fields Medal.

What did he do after he left mathematics?

These photos of him looking very broke, like he could use the money.

He turned away the money, he turned away everything.

You know, there's, you just have to listen to the inner voice, you have to listen to yourself and make the decisions that don't make any sense for the rest of the world and make sense to you.

Bob Dylan didn't show up to pick up his Nobel Peace Prize.

Yeah He probably grew in notoriety for that Maybe just doesn't like going in Sweden, but it seemed like a big fun trip I think they do it in a nice time of years, but hey, that's his right.

I think the best artists aren't doing it for the prize.

They aren't doing it for the fame or the money.

They're doing it because they love the art.

You gotta verb it through, download your inner thing.

I don't think we've talked about this, this obsession that I have about how Rick has this way of being very, very still in his body, but keeping his mind very active as a practice.

We spent some time with him in Italy last June.

And we would tread water in his pool in the morning and listen to a history of rock and roll and 100 songs.

And then he would spend a fair amount of time during the day in this kind of meditative state where his mind is very active, body very still.

And then Carl Deisteroth, when he came on my podcast, talked about how he forces himself to sit still and think in complete sentences late at night after his kids go to sleep.

And there's a state of mind rapid eye movement sleep where your body is completely paralyzed and the mind is extremely active and people credit rapid eye movement sleep with some of the more elaborate emotion filled dreams and the source of many ideas.

Einstein, people described him as taking walks around the Princeton campus, then pausing and would ask him what was going on and the idea that his mind was continuing to churn forward at a high rate.

So, this is far from controlled studies, but we're talking about some incredible minds and creatives who have a practice of stilling the body while keeping the mind deliberately very active, very similar to rapid eye movement sleep.

And then there are a lot of people who also report great ideas coming to them in the shower while running.

So it can be the opposite as well where the body is very active and the mind is perhaps more on kind of like a default mode network, not really focusing on any 1 specific thing.

You know, interesting, there's a bunch of physicists and mathematicians I've talked to, they talk about sleep deprivation and going crazy hours through the night, obsessively pursuing a thing.

And then the solution to the problem comes when they finally get rest.

And we know, we just did this 6 episode special series on sleep with Matt Walker.

We know that when you deprive yourself of sleep and then you get sleep, you get a rebound in rapid eye movement sleep.

You get a higher percentage of rapid eye movement sleep.

He did an episode on sleep and creativity, sleep and memory.

Rapid eye movement sleep comes up multiple times in that series.

There's also some very interesting stuff about cannabis withdrawal and rapid eye movement sleep.

People are coming off cannabis often will suffer from insomnia, but when they finally do start sleeping, they like dream like crazy.

Cannabis is a very controversial topic right now.

There's a bunch of drama around the episode you did on cannabis.

Yeah, we did an episode about cannabis, talked about the health benefits and the potential risks, right?

It depends on the person, depends on the age, depends on genetic background, a number of other things.

We published that episode well over a year ago and it had no issues online, so to speak.

See all Lex Fridman transcripts on Youtube

Andrew Huberman: Focus, Controversy, Politics, and Relationships | Lex Fridman Podcast #435