- The piece is an interview with Andrew Callaghan, host of Channel 5 on YouTube
- He discusses his experiences filming the Capitol riots and his unique interview style with people on the fringes of society
- He talks about his early interest in journalism and his struggles with HPPD, a condition caused by psychedelic drug use
- Callaghan also discusses his coping mechanisms and how his job helps him feel connected to reality

- The speaker discusses using alcohol to deal with anxiety and HPPD symptoms
- He clarifies that he did enjoy certain classes in school, despite the misconception on his Wikipedia page
- The speaker reflects on the limitations of the school system and the importance of pursuing one's interests
- He talks about his love for journalism and the influence of Hunter S. Thompson on his work
- The discussion also touches on the impact of alcohol and drugs on creativity and the mysteries of black holes and outer space

- The speaker discusses wanting to research space madness and interview people who have experienced it
- They then talk about hitchhiking across the US and the experiences they had
- The conversation shifts to the value of material possessions and the influence of Jack Kerouac

- The speaker shares stories of hitchhiking, including being mistaken for a lot lizard by a man in Louisiana
- He discusses his experiences using the Couchsurfing app to find places to stay
- The speaker reflects on the kindness of people he met during his journey, particularly those who were struggling themselves
- He talks about his skepticism towards religion and morality, and shares his opinions on different regions in the United States, including Colorado and Oregon

- The speaker grew up going to Black Block protests and was deeply affected by the murder of a Native American woodcarver by a Seattle police officer
- This experience led them to embrace anarchist political views, but they later realized the incompatibility of anarchism with reality
- They worked as a host at a fine dining restaurant on Bourbon Street in New Orleans and witnessed chaotic and bizarre scenes
- They also started a viral Instagram series called "Quarter Confessions" where people confessed deep secrets, including disturbing ones
- The speaker eventually felt uncomfortable with the show's impact on the participants and stopped the series

- The speaker discusses feeling uncomfortable with ambush interviews and the impact of sharing personal information in a public setting
- They also talk about their experiences interviewing homeless individuals and the challenges they face
- The speaker mentions their documentary being taken down by YouTube due to a copyright claim from a news station
- They discuss their show "All Gas No Brakes" and the opportunity they were given to produce it after graduating from college

- The speaker was offered an RV and $45k a year by a company
- They struggled to film at Burning Man due to the festival's non-commercialized nature
- They started a podcast at Burning Man and interviewed people about their psychedelic experiences
- They had a run-in with a powerful person at Burning Man and had to take down a video
- They transitioned to traveling to the South and attending various events, finding the people there to be friendly and non-judgmental

- Interview with Andrew Callaghan, host of Channel 5 on YouTube
- Discusses filming Capitol riots and unique interview style with fringe society
- Early interest in journalism and struggles with HPPD
- Coping mechanisms and job connection to reality
- Alcohol use for anxiety and HPPD symptoms
- Reflection on school limitations and pursuing interests
- Love for journalism and influence of Hunter S. Thompson
- Impact of alcohol and drugs on creativity, interest in space madness
- Stories of hitchhiking and experiences using Couchsurfing app
- Skepticism towards religion and morality, views on different US regions
- Embracing anarchist views, working at a fine dining restaurant
- Viral Instagram series "Quarter Confessions" and discomfort with impact
- Uncomfortable with ambush interviews and sharing personal information
- Experiences interviewing homeless individuals and documentary takedown
- Show "All Gas No Brakes" opportunity and struggles at Burning Man
- Transition to traveling in the South and positive experiences with people there

- The speaker talks about the negative perception of the South and his love for states like Mississippi and Alabama
- He discusses his experiences traveling and meeting interesting people, including a lady in Albuquerque
- The speaker talks about the impact of COVID-19 on his work and the polarization it caused in different parts of the country
- He describes his experience covering the George Floyd protests in Minneapolis and the powerful interviews he conducted with protesters

- The speaker witnessed a black man stopping an anarchist kid from throwing a Molotov cocktail at White Castle during protests
- Businesses on Lake Street were burned, but White Castle remained untouched
- The speaker saw a group of friends hitting an ATM with sledgehammers, causing money to spray out, leading to a fight over the money
- The speaker was shot by the National Guard during the protests
- The speaker discussed his rise to fame and the impact of it on his life
- He also talked about his experience with Doing Things Media and the collapse of his show
- He mentioned a potential show with Tim and Eric and Jonah Hill that was rejected by TV networks due to a contract with Doing Things Media

- The speaker worked for All Gas No Brakes and was unable to earn outside income
- TV networks wanted exclusive rights to the show
- A24 Films wanted to make a movie with the speaker, allowing him to keep the digital brand running
- The speaker was fired after demanding 50% profit split for doing double work
- Channel 5 was born after the HBO project and the movie "This Place Rules" was released on HBO Max
- The speaker praised HBO for their professionalism and support

- The speaker talks about the chaos and impact of the January 6th events
- They discuss the influence of QAnon and its impact on people's lives
- The speaker reflects on the role of conspiracy theories and the media in shaping beliefs
- They mention their interaction with Alex Jones and the backlash they received for including him in their film

- The speaker appeared on CNN and NPR for a press tour for a film
- He confronted Don Lemon on CNN about media's role in dividing Americans for profit
- The press tour was canceled after the confrontation
- He also faced criticism from NPR for platforming Alex Jones in the film
- The speaker discussed the challenges of navigating media and the pressure to conform to algorithms and audience expectations

- The speaker discusses the pressure of creating content based on views and the influence of the audience on creators
- They talk about their experience making a film and working with Jonah Hill
- They touch on their political views and bias in journalism
- They reflect on the migrant situation at the border and the level of poverty in America compared to other nations
- They discuss the homelessness crisis in major US cities and the media's portrayal of it.

- Speaker discusses negative perception of the South and his love for states like Mississippi and Alabama
- Talks about impact of COVID-19, polarization, and covering George Floyd protests in Minneapolis
- Describes experiences with protests, being shot by National Guard, rise to fame, and collapse of show with Doing Things Media
- Mentions potential show with Tim and Eric and Jonah Hill, and challenges with TV networks
- Reflects on chaos of January 6th events, influence of QAnon, and role of conspiracy theories and media
- Discusses interaction with Alex Jones, criticism from CNN and NPR, and challenges of navigating media and audience expectations
- Touches on political views, bias in journalism, migrant situation at the border, and homelessness crisis in major US cities.

- The speaker is disappointed with the media for causing political division
- They believe another event like January 6th won't happen
- They discuss local politics and the 2024 election
- The speaker addresses allegations of pressuring someone for consent
- They explain their side of the story and the impact of the allegations on their life.

- The speaker apologized to a person for a misunderstanding and made amends in private
- They faced backlash and media scrutiny, leading to a mental health crisis
- They entered recovery programs and contemplated suicide, but ultimately found support and love
- The speaker advises young men to be aware of power dynamics and have trauma-informed conversations with partners

- The speaker discusses the importance of understanding people's trauma and how it can affect their behavior
- They talk about the origin of the name "Channel 5" and how it was used as a diversion tactic during filming
- The interview style is described as deadpan and directed
- The editing style involves crash zooms and voiceover storytelling to add context and historical analysis
- The goal of the videos is to humanize people in difficult circumstances and provide solutions for helping them
- The speaker explains the origins and evolution of Drill rap, its connection to true crime, and its influence on modern music
- Oblock, a housing project in South Chicago, is discussed in relation to the drill music scene and potential safety concerns during interviews there

- The video discusses the possibility that OBLOK 6 are not rappers but shooters, possibly involved in the killing of FBG Duck on behalf of King Von.
- There are concerns that some Federal charges may fall on Lil Durk, and OBLOK is trying to rebrand their image by converting to Islam and promoting a positive message.
- The interviewer also discusses his experiences with other individuals, including a rapper named Boss Top and an interview with Crip Mac.
- The conversation also touches on topics such as UFOs, endangered languages in the US, and the belief that most people think they are doing the best thing for the world.

- The speaker believes that most people are inherently good and want to do good
- They think that misunderstandings between people can be healed through listening and keeping an open heart
- The speaker expresses hope for humanity and encourages listeners to keep their hearts open
- The conversation ends with a quote from Hunter S. Thompson about the "edge" and the podcast's sponsor message

The speaker expresses disappointment in the media for causing political division and discusses local politics and the 2024 election. They address allegations of pressuring someone for consent and the impact on their life. The speaker also talks about their mental health crisis, recovery, and advises young men on power dynamics in relationships. The interview style is deadpan and directed, with crash zooms and voiceover storytelling. The goal is to humanize people in difficult circumstances and provide solutions. The speaker explains the origins and evolution of Drill rap and discusses Oblock in South Chicago. They express hope for humanity and encourage listeners to keep their hearts open."""

Andrew Callaghan is the host of Channel 5 on YouTube, where he does street interviews with fascinating humans at the edges of society, the so-called vagrants, vagabonds, runaways, outlaws.

Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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TRANSCRIPT:
https://lexfridman.com/andrew-callaghan-transcript

EPISODE LINKS:
Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan: https://www.youtube.com/channel5YouTube
Andrew's Instagram: https://instagram.com/andreww.me
Andrew's Website: https://andrew-callaghan.com/
Andrew's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/channel5
This Place Rules: https://www.hbo.com/movies/this-place-rules
Books Mentioned:
On the Road: https://amzn.to/4aLPLHi
Siddhartha: https://amzn.to/49rthKz

PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41

OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
1:18 - Walmart
2:48 - Early life
21:38 - Hitchhiking
33:14 - Couch surfing
42:14 - Quarter Confessions
59:58 - Burning Man
1:15:08 - Protests
1:20:41 - Jon Stewart
1:23:37 - Fame
1:36:55 - Jan 6
1:40:39 - QAnon
1:46:24 - Alex Jones
2:03:17 - Politics
2:12:53 - Response to allegations
2:29:53 - Channel 5
2:35:28 - Rap
2:37:15 - O Block
2:41:11 - Crip Mac
2:44:23 - Aliens

SOCIAL:
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- Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

There's 2 people in the back, 2 of her homegirls wearing like, shiesty masks.

And she goes, we're gonna go film the riot.

She has the Sony a7, she gives me a microphone and she's like, go talk to that guy.

And that was a guy with a Molotov cocktail in his hand who had just burned Kmart down.

So I walk up to him and I'm like, what's on your mind?

The following is a conversation with Andrew Callaghan, host of Channel 5 on YouTube, where he does Gazelle style interviews with fascinating humans at the edges of society.

The so-called vagrants, vagabonds, runaways, outlaws, from QAnon adherents to fish heads to O-block residents and much more.

He created the documentary that I highly recommend called This Place Rules on the undercurrents that led to the January 6th Capitol riots.

To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description.

And now, dear friends, Here's Andrew Kalgan.

I went to Walmart before this and got the Wrangler shirt with the Texas Longhorns tee.

There's no way you get those suits from Target.

So you're saying it's a nice way to compliment a suit.

I think you go men's warehouse if not further.

The most expensive thing I own is this watch and it was given to me as a gift.

Yeah, when I was on tour, I had these $2,700 Cartier glasses that I got for a lot of money, $2,700.

But I was on tour, so I just felt like I could do anything as far as fashion choices.

But looking back at pictures from myself in that era, I'm

If you spend more than 100 bucks on sunglasses, you've officially gone off the

And that's where you go back to Walmart to humble yourself.

In fact, I moved to Austin because I was at Walmart and a lady said that I look handsome in a suit.

And I was like, that's it, I love this place.

She just said it for no reason whatsoever.

This older lady just kind of looked at me and with this like genuine sweetness, just said, oh, you look handsome.

Anyway, what was the first, if you remember, first recorded interview you did?

Claudia, this is back in the day, like I was telling you, we just asked her about her life in Columbia and stuff like that.

But I didn't really get into actual journalism until my ninth grade year.

It's all about hip hop and meditation and picking psilocybin mushrooms in public parks and stuff like that.

That's a lot, so side bend meditation, rap, public parks.

Yeah, I was making like conscious rap music.

I was to the point where I had like 4 dream catchers hanging above my bed, Alex Gray painting on the wall, tapestry on the ceiling, just scribbling rhymes down all the time.

So you said somewhere that you sucked at school.

So I had this amazing journalism course in ninth grade.

I went to an alternative high school, and the teacher was named Calvin Shaw, And he was just like, I ended up taking his class all 4 years and he used to let me actually leave school.

So he'd let me basically go around Seattle and do different interviews with people as long as I could come back by the end of the day and write a story for his class.

So the first article that I wrote was about the Silk Road and the deep web.

Because as a ninth grader, when I discovered the hidden wiki, I thought that I was really tapping into the most secret society elite level black market in the world.

And so if you remember, they had that hidden wiki link that was like hire a hitman.

And so I messaged them and I was like, all right, I wanna get someone killed at my school, how much is it gonna cost me?

And I published my interview with the Hidden Wiki hitman, who was probably a fed or something, but who knows.

And my first article was called, like, Inside the Deep Web, a Conversation with a Hitman.

I mean, I was hiding behind a Tor browser, so there's not much fear to be had.

It was anonymous, but I did publish it under my name, so you're right, I could have been in danger.

I also saw that you said you took too many shrooms when you were young, and that led you to have hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder, HPPD.

Well, that condition is classified by persistent visual snow, floaters, morphing objects.

And basically, it wasn't that I took too many shrooms.

I think that it was, I took about an eighth of senna essence mushrooms, which are the ones that come from the earth instead of cow shit.

And I took an eighth of those at my friend Toby's house, and which is a normal amount, but I was in eighth grade.

So I woke up the next morning with these extreme, you know, visual distortions.

I tried to make it go away, but there's really no cure for HPPD.

It's a lifelong condition, so it's just a matter of dealing with it and realizing that it is only visual.

So when people ask me, hey, I have HPPD, how do I cope with it?

I say, remember that every other sense that you have, what you can hear, what you can taste, you know, your feet on the ground, you're still on earth, you're still here.

Well, you said it's only visual, and yes, gratitude for being alive at all, it's great.

But you said that this led you into some dark psychological places like depersonalization disorder.

Yeah, depersonalization is the feeling that you are not real, but that reality still exists.

Derealization is the idea that reality itself is an illusion created by your mind and that you're the only person alive and that everything that your brain is projecting to your visual cortex is a lie and that you're the only living human being.

And so when I've talked to people who have the condition, it's really either or.

But more than 70% of people with HPPD fall into either category.

They're both coping mechanisms for the, I don't know what really happens.

He's the leading scientist when it comes to HPPD research.

He's the only 1 who actually seems to care about finding a cure.

And the only known treatment right now is alcohol and benzodiaphines.

Right, so alcoholism, something that came into my life pretty early.

Alcohol abuse as a result of that experience because that helps with the visual symptoms, makes some of the static go away.

explain to me what in that spectrum you are?

So do you sometimes have a sense that you're not real?

But like I said, my job helps with that because I get to feel like when you seek out extremes to a certain extent and you put yourself on the front lines of intense events, whether it be politically or socially, or just dive into deep fringe subcultures, you get this feeling that you're real.

And being filmed is also confirmation, if you can look at the MP4 file, that you're in fact living here on Earth.

Confirming that you were in it with reality by watching yourself on video.

So is that basically the engine behind all the extreme interviews you've done?

Well, I got HPPD around the same time that I began this journalism course in ninth grade.

So I sort of always used journalism as a therapeutic mechanism to deal with some of these symptoms, especially depersonalization.

There's some pretty good illustrations of what it feels like.

Kind of feels like you're trapped behind your eyes or that you're just this nebulous soul that's trapped in a flesh suit that you're not really a part of.

You're sort of puppeteering a flesh and bone skin suit.

Trapped or just the ability to step outside of yourself?

You feel like your soul is not something that is connected to your body.

It's really hard to explain to people who haven't gone through derealization or depersonalization, but if you go on support groups, they always say, how do I break free from behind my eyes?

I mean, there's a higher state of being through meditation that you can kinda step outside of yourself,

Unfortunately, it was kind of the meditative path or the Eastern path that I took and kind of fused that with psychedelic culture in Seattle that took me down the psychedelic use rabbit hole in the first place.

So like, I'd say it all started with Siddhartha.

No, I don't really do psychedelic drugs, but like a lot of people think that I'm against them, which I'm not, it just doesn't work for me.

If it works for you, I'm sure that can be really fun, especially, I know there's lots of like therapeutic uses for acid and ketamine and psilocybin, but I personally abstain from those kind of anything psychotropic I try to stay away from.

Well, yeah, I mean, I didn't drink at all before I had the HPPD stuff.

And I would've drank later in life, but definitely like 14, 15, everyday after school, I'd drink a 40 ounce of Mickey's.

It's like a, it kinda looks like Old English, but the bottle's green and it has a hornet on the side of it.

Just kinda became a ritual just to deal with the anxiety of that situation.

Yeah, alcohol really works to suppress HPPD symptoms.

So you said you hated classes in school, except that journalism class.

Okay, we need to clear this up, because on my Wikipedia page, for some reason, for Andrew Callahan, early life, it says, Andrew hated every single class except for 1.

So I've had a bunch of teachers who are super cool, like this guy Tim, my astronomy professor at ninth grade, Mrs.

Zanetti, my creative writing teacher in sixth grade, and this really cool dude at my college in New Orleans named Charles Cannon who taught me a class called New Orleans Mythology.

My 3 favorite classes besides my journalism class.

And they all hit me up and they're like, hey man, saw you said you hated every class.

Sorry I couldn't be everything that you wanted me to be.

And so, I just want to say, shout out to all those teachers, I didn't hate every class.

The point that I was making is that being forced into the institution of school so young and having to take common core classes like biology, dissecting frogs, history of the Han Dynasty, stuff like that that I didn't want to learn but I had to learn multiple times.

I mean, I learned about the dynastic cycle in ancient China 3 separate times at 3 different schools and I was like who is writing this curriculum and why is it so important that I understand this process?

The part that makes school difficult, especially in college, is that you have people just going to school just to get the degree who don't really know exactly what they're interested in and they don't even have time to figure that out because they're in a business program or a communications program with no specific interest.

Well, I think if you wanna do school right, take on every single subject that you're forced into, it's like the David Foster Wallace, just be unboreable by it.

Just really go in as if ancient Chinese dynasties are the most interesting thing you could possibly learn.

And it is somewhat interesting, the Silk Road and the Great Wall and terracotta soldiers and stuff.

But I'm just saying, like when I got to college, I signed up for journalism school, right?

And I didn't get to take a media class until the second semester.

And I had to take everything prior to that, and I'd already spent so much time, I just think the excruciating boredom of schooling left a bad taste in my mouth.

But there was individual classes that I liked a lot.

Yeah, there should be some choice, or maybe a lot of choice, even at the level of high school, for what kind of classes you pursue.

And you're also saying so Wikipedia is not always perfectly right.

No, but it's just interesting because like, I've said so much in podcasts, but that's what they isolated.

And I've gotten that question before, which I understand, it's the first thing on my Wikipedia page, but it makes me sound like a super hater.

Have you ever seen this Instagram page called Depths of Wikipedia?

On a basic level, everybody wants media coverage, right?

Everyone likes to be on camera and get exposure for whatever they're doing.

And so being a journalist and being almost like a portal for exposure for people allows you to be on the front row of everything that you want to be a part of.

You get to be in the front row for history as it's unfolding because everyone wants to be covered.

So being a journalist gives you a ticket to everywhere that you wanna go in life.

And so it allows you to step into different realities almost and then go back to yours.

Thompson, is he up there as 1 of the influences?

I think the early Daily Show was so good.

I mean, that was like, the Ali G Show especially.

I think Louis Theroux's broadcasts on BBC were great.

Thompson too, but not really until college.

You know, I really like a particular Hunter S.

Thompson book called The Great Shark Hunt, where he covers the Ruben Salazar murder by LAPD or LA Sheriff's Department in Boyle Heights in the 70s.

And his relationship with his lawyer, Oscar Acosta, and that whole saga is great.

Fear and loathing, I like, but not as much as his straightforward reporting.

Because there's the Gonzo side of Hunter, where he's like saying he's taking drugs and seeing shit.

And there's the other side of him, which is like an actual reporter interested in telling a story that has news value.

There is something about you that makes people wanna say you're the Hunter S.

I think they mean some kind of non-standard willingness to explore the extremes of humanity and like almost a celebration of the extremes of humanity.

Yeah, well that's a very kind comparison.

I just went to Aspen on a little Hunter S.

Thompson recon trip to go check out the Woody Creek Tavern, which is the spot that he, it was like his bar near his cabin.

Unfortunately, it's kind of turned into, not a dive bar now, but it's a sit down sort of country restaurant.

But I expected to see a bunch of gnarly Hunter S.

I mean, drugs and alcohol is all part of it somehow.

So it opens a gateway to a deeper understanding of humanity.

But I will say though, as someone now who doesn't party like I did when I was younger, it's not as important as I thought it was.

I'm good friends with a lot of people that say alcohol is really bad for you.

But there's something that, I just, as an introvert, as a person who has a lot of anxiety, for me alcohol has opened doors of just opening myself up to the world more.

Oh, I'm actually a fan of alcohol, moderate drinking.

But I'm saying my life before, I would say 2019, 2018 especially, there was the chaos on camera, but then there was my private life, which was like chaotic partying all the time.

And I convinced myself, much like Hunter did, that that was the secret sauce in the core, the spiritual, in my spiritual core, that gave me the creativity.

But then I cut out a lot of that stuff and I'm just as creative.

And it's interesting that a lot of, I think 1 of the hardest parts about addiction is that if you're a functioning, highly creative addict of any kind, your brain and the addictive part of your brain convinces yourself that it's all part of the cross purpose and that it has this symbiotic, inspirational thing going on, but it's not true.

You can sometimes channel, you can sometimes leverage all those things for your creativity, but the creative engine, it lives outside of that.

Like have you read Hunter's daily routine in the year up to his death?

It was like 15 grapefruits and 8 ball of Coke and just a certain amount of shotgun shells for him to fire into the sky every morning.

There's no way, and he didn't do anything creative in those final years.

But so the creativity goes away and gradually you just become a party animal, like Andy Dick.

You make all kinds of choices, and sometimes you can have, create works of genius in a short amount of time based on drugs and no drugs.

Einstein had that miracle year where he published several incredible papers in 1 year, 1905.

See all Lex Fridman transcripts on Youtube

Andrew Callaghan: Channel 5, Gonzo Journalism, Controversy, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #425