Kimball Musk discusses his love for cooking and the power of ingredients to create memorable moments.

The Art of Cooking

Kimball Musk reflects on his formative experiences growing up in apartheid South Africa and the value of human life.

Growing Up in South Africa

Kimball Musk shares harrowing experiences of witnessing violence and near-death encounters.

Cruelty and Near-Death Experiences

Kimball Musk discusses the impact of his father's actions on his own life and psychology.

Father's Influence and Personal Trauma

Kimball Musk reflects on the bond and complementarity between him and Elon Musk.

Bond with Elon Musk

Kimball Musk shares his first experience with cooking and the joy of sharing meals with family.

First Love for Cooking

Kimball Musk discusses the gift of food and the power of shared meals to bring people together.

Food as a Gift

Kimball Musk reflects on the tangible reactions of people to food and the challenges of running a restaurant.

Running a Restaurant

Exploring the unique experience of bars and restaurants, the role of bartenders in connecting with humanity, and the power of bars as transition spaces.

The Art of Bartending

Discussing the use of bars as a place for solace during difficult times, the role of bartenders in providing comfort, and the emotional significance of bars.

The Melancholy of Bars

Exploring the role of restaurants as a reflection of societal energy, the impact of events on restaurant traffic, and the unique experience of empty and full bars.

The Front Lines of Restaurants

Delving into the culinary journey, the art of cooking with love, the importance of technique over recipes, and the nuances of salt and seasoning.

The Culinary Journey

Discussing the love of steak, the art of cooking a perfect steak, and the communal and artisanal nature of barbecue culture in Austin.

The Steak and Barbecue Experience

Exploring the world of food as an art form and the excitement of opening a barbecue joint in a city with a food culture.

The Art of Food and Barbecue

The challenge of living up to the legendary nature of a restaurant's name and the unique history of the restaurant's building.

Living Up to the Name

The life-threatening accident in 2010 that changed the speaker's perspective on life, work, and purpose.

Life-Altering Accident

The details of the paralyzing injury and the speaker's experience from the moment of the accident to the hospital.

Paralyzing Injury

The speaker's experience of a clear voice and a profound shift in perspective after the accident.

Voice of Clarity

Discussion about the speaker's experience with ayahuasca and the profound impact it had on his perspective.

Ayahuasca Experience

The speaker's early experiences with entrepreneurship and the journey of founding Zip2.

Road Trip and Entrepreneurship

The speaker's pioneering experience with vector-based mapping technology and its transformative potential.

Discovery of Mapping Technology

Exploring the challenges and successes of Zip2, the early internet company.

The Zip2 Journey

The bittersweet acquisition of Zip2 and the transition to new opportunities.

The Acquisition and Transition

The early days of Tesla, the vision, and the challenges faced.

The Birth of Tesla

The transformative phase for Tesla with the Model 3 and the challenges faced.

The Model 3 Revolution

The highs and lows of SpaceX's journey to becoming a multi-planetary species.

The SpaceX Journey

A communal experience during a challenging time at SpaceX.

The Gathering Place

A perspective on the progress and challenges of humanity's journey.

Reflecting on Humanity's Future

- Kimball Musk discusses his love for cooking and the value of certain ingredients
- He reflects on growing up in apartheid South Africa and the lack of value for human life
- Musk shares a traumatic experience of witnessing violence and the impact it had on him
- He emphasizes the importance of maximizing joy in life and the need for perspective when critiquing America
- Musk also discusses his complicated relationship with his father and the desire to make up for his mistakes

- The speaker learned what not to do from their father's intentional actions and verbal abuse
- The speaker and their brother complement each other, with the speaker being social and the brother being an engineering genius
- The speaker started cooking at 11 and found joy in bringing their family together for meals
- Food has the power to bring people together and facilitate genuine, meaningful conversations

- The speaker discusses the importance of exchanging ideas and playing with them without shutting down conversations
- They emphasize the vulnerability and grounding nature of sharing a meal with others
- The speaker believes that food is a gift we give ourselves three times a day, and emphasizes the importance of eating with others
- Running a restaurant is described as a mix of tangible reactions from customers and the challenge of reading and understanding their psychological state

- The speaker discusses the unique experience of being at a bar and the connection with bartenders
- The bar provides a space for people to be alone together and have meaningful conversations
- The speaker enjoys going to a bar alone for a transition time and to feel the energy of the space
- The speaker values the front lines of humanity that restaurants provide
- The power of good vegetables and the importance of sourcing from different farms is also discussed

- The speaker is not anti-carbs and believes they play a role in diet
- They have a gluten allergy but still enjoy bread and pasta occasionally
- They follow a flexible eating schedule and prioritize enjoying food
- The speaker was inspired by Anthony Bourdain and had a rough but valuable experience at the French Culinary Institute
- They learned important lessons about cooking, including the value of putting love into food preparation

- Kimball discusses his daily ritual of making scrambled eggs for his kids
- He emphasizes the importance of using the right salt for cooking
- He talks about the relationship between salt and cooking technique
- Kimball also shares his love for steak and the importance of sourcing good quality meat
- He discusses the different styles of barbecue in Austin and the communal atmosphere of barbecue joints

- The speaker discusses the evolution of barbecue joints and the need for uniqueness in the food industry
- They also talk about their life-threatening accident in 2010 that led to a change in their career path from technology to working with kids and food
- The accident left them paralyzed, but they received a clear message to work with kids and food, leading to a career change

- Kimball Musk reflects on his childhood in apartheid South Africa and the impact of witnessing violence
- He emphasizes the importance of maximizing joy in life and the need for perspective when critiquing America
- Musk discusses his complicated relationship with his father and the lessons he learned from it
- He shares his love for cooking and the power of food to bring people together
- The speaker values the front lines of humanity that restaurants provide
- Kimball discusses his daily ritual of making scrambled eggs for his kids and the importance of using the right salt for cooking
- He also shares his love for steak and the importance of sourcing good quality meat
- The speaker discusses the evolution of barbecue joints and their life-threatening accident in 2010, leading to a career change

- The speaker experienced a period of clarity and a clear voice, which he attributes to the voice of God, possibly from his experiences with ayahuasca
- He discusses the concept of meditation and the idea of being the watcher of thoughts
- He shares his experience with ayahuasca, emphasizing that it is not a recreational activity and can be a profound and transformative experience
- The conversation then shifts to the speaker's early days as a tech CEO and a road trip he took with Elon Musk in 1994, where they encountered various challenges and met interesting people along the way

- The speaker had a successful college business painting houses
- He was disappointed with the banking world and created a spreadsheet macro to improve efficiency
- He overcame fear of failure and found success in entrepreneurship
- He and his brother were the first to use vector-based mapping on the internet
- They saw the potential to transform the way people receive directions

- The speaker discusses the early days of Zip2 and the challenges of making money in the internet boom
- The acquisition of Zip2 by Compaq was bittersweet, but set the speaker up for future success
- The speaker invested in x.com, which later merged with PayPal, and was involved in the early stages of Tesla
- The Model 3 was a transformative moment for Tesla, and the company operates more like an iPhone company, constantly improving their products
- The speaker and Elon Musk have different perspectives on deadlines, with the speaker preferring a growth mindset over a fixed mindset

- Elon Musk's brother, Kimball Musk, discusses the challenges and low points of SpaceX, including a rocket explosion in the mid-Pacific.
- He shares a memorable moment of bringing food to the SpaceX team during a difficult time, emphasizing the communal experience of sharing a meal.
- Kimball Musk expresses hope for the future of humanity, citing improvements in poverty rates and infant mortality, and discusses his work with the nonprofit Big Green to address the obesity epidemic.
- He emphasizes the importance of celebrating successes and being grateful for life, ending the conversation with a quote from Anthony Bourdain.

- Speaker attributes clarity and clear voice to God, possibly from experiences with ayahuasca
- Discusses meditation and being the watcher of thoughts
- Shares transformative experience with ayahuasca
- Recounts road trip with Elon Musk in 1994 and challenges faced
- Successful college business painting houses
- Created spreadsheet macro to improve efficiency in banking world
- Overcame fear of failure and found success in entrepreneurship
- First to use vector-based mapping on the internet
- Challenges of making money in internet boom
- Zip2 acquisition by Compaq set speaker up for future success
- Investment in x.com, later merged with PayPal, and involvement in early stages of Tesla
- Tesla's transformative moment with Model 3
- Different perspectives on deadlines with Elon Musk
- Kimball Musk discusses challenges and low points of SpaceX
- Emphasizes communal experience of sharing a meal during difficult times
- Expresses hope for future of humanity and work with nonprofit Big Green
- Importance of celebrating successes and being grateful for life

Kimbal Musk is a chef, entrepreneur, and author of The Kitchen Cookbook: Cooking for Your Community. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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TRANSCRIPT:
https://lexfridman.com/kimbal-musk-transcript

EPISODE LINKS:
Kimbal's X: https://x.com/kimbal
Kimbal's Instagram: https://instagram.com/kimbalmusk/
Kimbal's Facebook: https://facebook.com/kimbalmuskofficial/
The Kitchen Cookbook: https://amzn.to/4ccaCoE
The Kitchen (restaurants): https://www.thekitchen.com/

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Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41

OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
1:02 - Growing up in South Africa
13:32 - Cooking
36:18 - Ingredients
43:23 - Anthony Bourdain
45:38 - Cooking school
1:01:58 - Life-threatening accident
1:16:02 - Road trip across US
1:27:45 - Zip2
1:32:28 - Tesla
1:39:53 - SpaceX
1:43:36 - Hope for the future

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What's your favorite ingredient to cook with?

It's more like when there is 1, it really is 1.

You know, like there's peaches on the cover of this cookbook.

Those peaches was in August, Colorado peaches.

It just doesn't get any better than that.

On that day, at that moment, that was the best.

That was the best, but that only lasts for a week.

But damn, are they so good in that moment and you just can't stop wanting to Use that ingredient.

The following is a conversation with Kimball Musk, a long time entrepreneur and chef and author of a new cookbook called The Kitchen Cookbook, Cooking for Your Community.

It is in fact the first cookbook I've ever owned.

I've already made stuff from it and it's delicious.

To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description.

And now, dear friends, here's Kimball Musk.

Growing up in South Africa, you said it was a violent place.

What are some formative moments that you remember from that time?

South Africa was, so I grew up in apartheid South Africa, but more specifically the fall of apartheid.

So it was the 80, I was a teenager in the 80s.

And our community would, part of our social life frankly was the anti-apartheid protests and to go be with white people, black people, kind of mixing it all together.

The most formative experience is frankly how much I appreciate a place like America where we have value for human life.

So there was a country where human life was not valued.

It was a weird thing to come from that to here where we take it so seriously.

If someone dies in a war or something like that.

And we just didn't take it seriously in South Africa.

And it's a very violent train, known for violence, we were stupid kids, we didn't really listen to our parents.

We went on this train and the doors opened, and I had people trying to get off the train, And in front of me, 2 black people, 1 black guy just stabbed this knife in the side of this other black guy's head.

I got to get off the train and everyone is trying to get me to get off because you know they're all behind me.

So I step off and I step into the pool of blood, 1 foot, and then I just walk for about 100 paces while the stickiness of the blood, just kind of for my sneakers, just on 1 foot, just like leaves a footprint behind me.

Underlying the violence is a kind of philosophy that human life is disposable.

The value of human life was lower there than in the United States.

The value of the individual in the United States is really high.

There's probably an index you can put together.

That's a really interesting way to put it because violence is much easier on a mass scale.

Suffering, causing suffering on a mass scale is much easier when you don't value the human life.

I've heard this before, which I think I agree with, is when someone is killed, someone is taken from our lives, The vacuum that it creates, the social vacuum, is extraordinarily painful.

I mean, if someone in my community passes away, it's very, very sad for me.

And when you go to a place where, it will live, grow up in a place where that human life is not valued, there's something about the, there's a little bit less of the social vacuum created because everyone is kind of expecting everyone to potentially be taken out at any moment.

But then there's also a beauty to it because there's a much more of a celebratory element.

When my cousin Russ and I, again, we were stupid kids, we shouldn't be doing this, but we'd go into the townships where a lot of the violence would be happening.

We really didn't see most of the violence there.

It was in these more protests and so forth.

But there's a joy that also comes from lower value of human life.

Like everyone is like, well, I mean, it's beautiful.

We have dinner with black friends, friends with their family, and we were still pretty young.

When you accept mortality, you can really enjoy life.

I mean, I think there's actually, that's quite a nice insight.

I've never really put it that way, but I think that's right, actually.

I think you just chill out a bit, take things a little less seriously.

And if you just head on, accept that fact, you can just enjoy every single moment and let go of this attachment and just enjoy

I do love that we all live longer and so forth, but we should live longer with the goal of joy

goal of happiness and peace, not some form of misery that you choose to attach yourself to?

There's a story that Walter Isaacson writes about where Elon got beat up pretty bad and you were there, and then You also had to watch your dad yell at Elon for an hour, calling him worthless, all those kinds of things.

You said it was the worst memory of your life.

I think, you know, coming back to the point of low value of human life, they tried to kill him.

So I just watched someone, I mean, it wasn't just 1, but there was a main person and then there was a few others that piled in.

They just, they tried to kill him in front of me.

We were eating sandwiches on a staircase at the school, an outdoor staircase.

I just had to, they were not coming up to me and I just had to watch and I couldn't help.

It was 1 of the saddest, most difficult experiences.

Yeah, I think, so I've had a near-death experience where I almost died.

I was in 2010, and I think that, and I broke my neck, and I can go to that story in a moment, but this was different.

This comes back to the low value of human life part where if someone had killed my brother, if that person had beat him to death, which he was trying to do, life would have gone on.

That's like an insane thought in an American, maybe in some tough neighborhoods, but for the most part, it's another thing.

Yeah, the brutality of that, the mundaneness of that brutality.

It makes you think of all the places in the world that that's happening.

And all the beautiful people that just disappear.

I always say to people who have an opinion about America that, no, this is a really bad country or whatever.

And I say, look, please go try another country before you say that.

Not to say that America can't get better, but please go try another country because not having that perspective, or having a perspective that, I don't know, that could chip on their shoulder about the country that they're in.

Okay, go try another country, and then come back and tell me.

It doesn't have to be some very violent country.

And you just realize that actually the world doesn't think the same way that America thinks.

And you're gonna just learn a perspective that I think gives you a better way to critique where we live in America.

You said that your dad was a rollercoaster of affection and then verbal abuse.

Walter Isaacson quotes Barack Obama who said, someone once said that every man is trying to live up to his father's expectations or make up for his father's mistakes, and I suppose that may explain my particular malady.

What I thought you were gonna say, was we thought you were gonna end the sentence with live up to my father's expectations.

then you said the second part, which is make up for his mistakes.

And I think that's actually, that 1 rings true for me.

He was really, he's still alive, but I'm not connected to him.

But he's very, he taught me, the phrase I used to have was he taught me what not to do.

What kind of human not to be, what kind of actions not to take.

And so that kind of closer to living up to his mistakes, but it's, but my father was such a train wreck that it's not really mistakes, it's like intentional actions of what not to do.

But there's still the trauma of that, you know, it has an effect on the human psychology and can permeate through time.

So it has probably complex, indirect effects on who you are, the good and the bad.

There's a critique that my friends give me, which is when they're talking to me, I kind of just drift away.

I just, I'm still looking at them, still nodding, might even respond to them in their conversation, but I'm actually not there.

And I've realized that actually I grew up, because my father would just verbal, abuse is 1 way to say it, it is abuse, but it's more just verbal diarrhea for hours and constantly saying, do you understand?

He wants to make sure that I'm paying attention.

So I train myself to look like I'm paying attention, but I'm not.

Yeah, and I do that less and less of a time, but I.

But that path has been paved somewhere in your mind at childhood, so it could be easy to walk down it.

You and Elon were close growing up, you're still close.

My strength is definitely on the social side.

And I love putting people together in person.

And I love to have vibrant debates and conversations.

I've been doing that forever, and including some fun parties and stuff where I bring people together and I really kind of want people to have fun and be, but be vulnerable in a, not just like silly partying, just but actually like let's all connect.

The definition for me of a good party is people laugh and cry.

Like I wanna have people have an emotional connection.

I go to Burning Man every year and that is there's no question, you will cry at some point during Burning Man.

No small talk, oh yeah, exactly, no small talk.

You're totally right on, like most parties, not parties, but most events you go to are like clubs, these sort of nightclubs.

And I never go to those, and my joke is, it's Why would I wanna go to a place where I pay to shout small talk in the dark?

The only reason I enjoy those places is the full absurdity of exactly that.

But I have, so my compliment for my brother was just bringing joy and social connection.

And he's truly, he's an engineering genius.

I've worked with him forever, and we do compliment each other.

By the way, thank you for giving me my first cookbook.

I'm gonna keep it on the counter and it's gonna give me legitimacy when anyone comes over.

When did you first fall in love with cooking?

I started cooking when I was 11 years old.

My mom is just, she's wonderful, but she's self-admittedly a bad cook.

But at the time, it was, and I think anyone with kids goes through this, your kids just want something that, like spaghetti bolognese or a burger or something.

And my mom would do brown bread, plain yogurt, and boiled squash.

You know, like the absolute most disgusting things that a child could imagine eating.

And she said, yeah, If you wanna cook, no problem.

So I went to the grocery store and I, back in those days, a butcher was separate to the grocery store, and I went to the butcher and I said, what can I cook?

And he pulled out a chicken and he said, This is the easiest recipe for you, just put it on a pan in an oven, a hot oven, because back then the ovens weren't necessarily like 400 degrees or 450 or whatever, and put it in a hot oven for 1 hour and enjoy.

And so I went home and actually I also brought some French fries, I'll tell you that as well.

So I was like, I'm a kid, of course I want French fries.

So I did roast chicken with French fries.

And the chicken came out and it was just Fantastic.

First of all, I think that also kicks off the magic.

If you screw it up and you're like, oh, maybe this is not for me.

But I could tell the French fry part, which was a disaster.

So I cooked the French fries, but I didn't heat the oil first.

So I just put the potatoes in the oil and I waited for it to heat up.

And I just was throwing up later that night.

Your body can't ingest that much because it sucks the oil in.

so that was a disaster, but at the time it tasted good.

The real magic, which I also found was wonderful, was when I cooked, my brother, my sister, my mom, all very, very busy, very intense people, would sit down and we would have a meal together.

And I was like, wow, this is a powerful, it's a very powerful thing that I've now got where in no other way could I have that connection with my family.

I mean, obviously we stay connected, we're very close, it's sector, but in no other way could we sit down and just talk about things, or talk about whatever's on our mind, or just to just, not even talk, just to be at the table together.

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Kimbal Musk: The Art of Cooking, Tesla, SpaceX, Zip2, and Family | Lex Fridman Podcast #417