- The piece is a conversation with Tucker Carlson, a political commentator, about his recent interview with Vladimir Putin.
- Carlson discusses his approach to interviewing and his goal of bringing more information to the public.
- He talks about his impressions of Putin and the interview process, stating that he was not nervous and was focused on gathering information.
- The goal of the interview was to provide more information to the public and challenge the American perspective on the war in Ukraine.

- The speaker rejects the American perspective on the war in Ukraine, feeling that citizens should have a say in the matter.
- He criticizes the media for perpetuating lies about the war and the likelihood of Ukraine winning.
- The speaker interviewed Vladimir Putin and focused on discussing the war and its global implications.
- He believes the war is affecting the US economy and the future of the US dollar.

- The speaker discusses the death of Navalny in prison and expresses sadness about it.
- They criticize American politicians for making claims about Navalny's death without knowing the truth.
- The speaker questions who may have been responsible for Navalny's death and discusses the lack of cult of personality propaganda in Russia.
- They also talk about their decision to interview Putin and the concerns raised by their lawyers about potential arrest.

- The speaker was willing to go through procedural hoops to interview Putin in Russia, but was being intensely surveilled by the US government
- The NSA admitted to monitoring the speaker's communications, and leaked information to the New York Times
- The speaker also tried to meet with Snowden, but was concerned about privacy and surveillance
- The speaker believes that privacy is a prerequisite for freedom, but acknowledges that everything is monitored all the time
- The speaker is troubled by the US intel services leaking information and tampering in elections, making democracy impossible
- The speaker also questions the control of the US government over his interview questions, and expresses skepticism towards political leaders
- The speaker focuses on the practical effects of leaders' behavior rather than their personalities or ideologies.

- The speaker is focused on real-life measures such as life expectancy, suicide rate, drug use, and prosperity in society
- They criticize the obsession with moral victories and emphasize the importance of factual victories
- The speaker discusses their experience in Moscow and expresses shock at the cleanliness and orderliness of the city despite sanctions
- They argue that cleanliness, safety, and beauty are important metrics for measuring a city's success
- The speaker criticizes US policies towards Russia and warns of potential consequences for the US economy

- The speaker is not endorsing Stalin or the Russian system, but is questioning why the US does not have similar infrastructure and standards of living.
- They argue that the US has more central planning and monopolies than Russia, and that the US is being lied to and misled by the media.
- The speaker encourages people to travel and experience different countries firsthand to challenge their preconceptions.
- They also express shame for their past bigotry towards Slavic people and Muslims, influenced by propaganda from mainstream media.

- The speaker believes that labeling a whole group of people as evil based on their nationality is immoral
- They admire Slavic culture and wish to visit Ukraine
- They criticize the lack of freedom of speech and press in the US and other countries
- They argue that the US media is controlled by the government and lacks freedom
- They discuss the lack of press freedom in Norway and the US
- They mention being fired for speaking their mind and criticize Jon Stewart's criticism of them
- They defend themselves against accusations of being a mindless partisan
- They mention a past encounter with Jon Stewart on their show Crossfire

- Tucker Carlson discusses his recent interview with Vladimir Putin and his goal of challenging the American perspective on the war in Ukraine.
- He criticizes the media for perpetuating lies about the war and the likelihood of Ukraine winning.
- Carlson also discusses the death of Navalny in prison and expresses concerns about privacy and surveillance.
- He questions the control of the US government over his interview questions and expresses skepticism towards political leaders.
- Carlson emphasizes the importance of factual victories and criticizes US policies towards Russia.
- He encourages people to travel and experience different countries firsthand to challenge their preconceptions and criticizes the lack of freedom of speech and press in the US and other countries.

- The speaker reflects on a past interview with Jon Stewart, claiming it was recorded as a win for Stewart due to his popularity
- The speaker criticizes Stewart for being partisan and not challenging powerful figures
- The speaker admits to being called a "dick" by Stewart and acknowledges his own faults
- The speaker believes there is a lack of debate on important issues such as the economy and war in the media

- The speaker hopes for a reasonable settlement to end the war in Ukraine
- They believe that both sides need to compromise for a settlement to be successful
- The speaker criticizes NATO and the US government's involvement in the conflict
- They express sympathy for Zelensky and criticize the US government's role in the war
- The speaker is ashamed of the US government's actions and believes they are responsible for the suffering in Ukraine
- They dismiss Putin's justification for continuing the war as "dumb" and criticize the conversation around "denazification" as ad hominem

The speaker discusses the use of the term "Nazi" in relation to the conflict in Ukraine and Putin's perspective on nationalism. They also mention Putin's health and their off-camera conversation with him, as well as Russia's attempt to join NATO in 2000.

- The speaker discusses Russia's attempt to join NATO and how it was turned down
- They also talk about the US's policies towards Russia and Ukraine, and the impact of these decisions
- The speaker criticizes the narrow-minded thinking of US policymakers and their reliance on outdated geopolitical templates
- They also mention the potential consequences of interviewing controversial world leaders like Hitler or Putin

- The speaker discusses the importance of conversation and peace talks with world leaders like Putin and Zelensky
- They talk about the challenges of interviewing in a foreign language and the importance of understanding the nuances of language and culture
- The speaker also reflects on the dangers of seeking fame and adulation, and the importance of maintaining a stable family and connection to nature

- The speaker believes that the desire for the love of people you don't know is poisonous
- He discusses the impact of technology on society, citing South Korea as an example
- He questions the benefits of technological advancements, pointing out the decline in life expectancy and rise in fentanyl use
- The speaker raises concerns about the lack of beauty and creativity in modern architecture compared to historical buildings
- He emphasizes the need to understand the impact of technology on society and its unresolved implications

- The speaker reflects on a past interview with Jon Stewart and criticizes him for being partisan and not challenging powerful figures
- They hope for a reasonable settlement to end the war in Ukraine and criticize NATO and the US government's involvement
- The speaker discusses Putin's perspective on nationalism, Russia's attempt to join NATO, and the impact of US policies towards Russia and Ukraine
- They emphasize the importance of conversation and peace talks with world leaders and raise concerns about the impact of technology on society

- The speaker discusses the uncontrollable nature of technology and the need to steer it in a safe way.
- They compare the situation to the Manhattan Project and the use of nuclear weapons.
- The conversation also touches on the potential dangers of AI and the need to prevent its misuse.
- The speaker also discusses their relationship with Donald Trump and their involvement in the 2020 election.

- The speaker admits to spreading disinformation and expresses anger towards CNN for calling them out
- They vented to a producer about the situation and regret giving their text messages to a lawyer
- They believe the 2020 election was rigged and that Biden is senile
- They criticize the choices for presidential candidates and express concerns about the power of the federal government
- They feel that the justice system is being used to manipulate the political system

- Tucker Carlson discusses the power and reach of various intelligence agencies, including the CIA, Mossad, and MI6
- He expresses concern about the CIA's involvement in domestic politics and its impact on American democracy
- He also shares his views on the Hamas attacks on Israel and criticizes American foreign policy leadership
- Carlson expresses skepticism about the effectiveness of American foreign policymakers and criticizes the promotion of Nikki Haley to a position of authority

- The speaker discusses his interest in interviewing world leaders, including Xi Jinping, and his admiration for Joe Rogan's curiosity and success
- He reflects on the importance of staying grounded in family and the unpredictability of successful relationships
- He emphasizes the role of humility and acknowledges the existence of unseen forces in shaping our lives
- The speaker also touches on the limitations of a purely rational worldview and the distinction between people who believe they are God and those who know they are not.

- The speaker believes that everyone, even those who claim to be atheists, appeals to a higher power in times of extreme stress.
- The speaker admires a Muslim leader, Sheikh Mohammed of Abu Dhabi, for his humility and leadership qualities.
- The speaker advises young people to have children and prioritize family over career and wealth.
- The speaker has no specific vision for his career, but values freedom and the opportunity to work with people he enjoys.

- The speaker feels blessed to be around people as long as human nature is not tampered with
- Bad leaders have been a recurring theme in history
- The speaker strongly opposes using technology to permanently change the human brain
- The speaker values long-term thinking and believes those in power should prioritize humanity
- The speaker questions the motives and track record of those in power
- The conversation ends with a quote from Mahatma Gandhi about the triumph of truth and love in history

The speaker discusses the uncontrollable nature of technology and the need to steer it in a safe way, comparing it to the Manhattan Project and nuclear weapons. They express concerns about AI misuse and their involvement in the 2020 election. The speaker criticizes CNN for calling them out, expresses skepticism about American foreign policy leadership, and emphasizes the importance of family and humility. They oppose using technology to permanently change the human brain and question the motives of those in power. The conversation ends with a quote from Mahatma Gandhi about the triumph of truth and love in history.

Tucker Carlson is a highly-influential political commentator. You can watch and listen to him on the Tucker Carlson Network and the Tucker Carlson Podcast.

TRANSCRIPT:
https://lexfridman.com/tucker-carlson-transcript

EPISODE LINKS:
Tucker Carlson Network: https://tuckercarlson.com/
Tucker Carlson Podcast: https://tuckercarlson.com/listen/
Tucker's X: https://twitter.com/tuckercarlson
Tucker's YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TuckerCarlson
Tucker's Instagram: https://instagram.com/tuckercarlson
Tucker's Facebook: https://facebook.com/tuckercarlsonTCN/
Vladimir Putin Interview: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fOCWBhuDdDo

PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41

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OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
3:53 - Putin
20:07 - Navalny
41:20 - Moscow
1:00:48 - Freedom of speech
1:07:03 - Jon Stewart
1:19:48 - Ending the War in Ukraine
1:29:15 - Nazis
1:37:42 - Putin's health
1:48:47 - Hitler
1:58:12 - Nuclear war
2:16:31 - Trump
2:33:27 - Israel-Palestine
2:39:37 - Xi Jinping
2:53:34 - Advice for young people
2:58:53 - Hope for the future

SOCIAL:
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- Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

He said very specifically, depending on the questions you ask Putin, you could be arrested or not.

And I said, listen to what you're saying.

You're saying the US government has control over my questions and they'll arrest me if I ask the wrong question?

Like, how are we better than Putin if that's true?

Killing Navalny during the Munich Security Conference in the middle of a debate over $60 billion in Ukraine funding?

I don't think we kill people in other countries to affect election outcomes.

Oh wait, no, we do it a lot and have for 80 years.

The following is a conversation with Tucker Carlson, a highly influential and often controversial political commentator.

When he was a Fox, Time Magazine called him the most powerful conservative in America.

After Fox, he has continued to host big impactful interviews and shows on X, on the Tucker Carlson podcast, and on TuckerCarlson.com.

I recommend subscribing, even if you disagree with his views.

It is always good to explore a diversity of perspectives.

Most recently, he interviewed the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin.

We discussed this, the topic of Russia, Putin, Navalny, and the war in Ukraine at length in this conversation.

Please allow me to say a few words about the very fact that I did this interview.

I have received a lot of criticism, publicly and privately, when I announced that I will be talking with Tucker.

For people who think I shouldn't do the conversation with Tucker or generally think that there are certain people I should never talk to, I'm sorry, but I disagree.

I will talk to everyone, as long as they're willing to talk genuinely in long form for 2, 3, 4 more hours.

I will talk to Putin and to Zelensky, to Trump and to Biden, to Tucker and to John Stewart, AOC, Obama, and many more people with very different views on the world.

That's what long form conversations are supposed to be all about.

Now, for people who criticize me for not asking tough questions, I hear you.

I do often ask tough questions, but I try to do it in a way that doesn't shut down the other person, putting them into a defensive state where they give only shallow talking points.

Instead, I'm looking always for the expression of genuinely held ideas and the deep roots of those ideas.

When done well, this gives us a chance to really hear out the guests and to begin to understand what and how they think.

And I trust the intelligence of you, the listener, to make up your own mind, to see through the bullshit, to the degree there's bullshit, and to see to the heart of the person.

Sometimes I fail at this but I'll continue working my ass off to improve.

All that said, I find that this no tough questions Criticism often happens when the guest is a person the listener simply hates and wants to see them grilled into embarrassment, called a liar, a greedy egomaniac, a killer, maybe even an evil human being, and so on.

If you are such a listener, what you want is drama, not wisdom.

There are many shows you can go to for that, with hosts that are way more charismatic and entertaining than I'll ever be.

If you do stick around, please know I will work hard to do this well and to keep improving.

Thank you for your patience and thank you for your support.

To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description.

And now, dear friends, here's Tucker Carlson.

What was your first impression when you met Vladimir Putin for the interview?

And I thought he seemed like someone who'd overthought it a little bit, who had a plan.

And I don't think that's the right way to go into any interview.

My strong sense, having done a lot of them for a long time, is that it's better to know what you think, to say as much as you can honestly, so you don't get confused by your own lies, and just to be yourself.

And I thought that he went into it like an over-prepared student.

But he was also probably prepared to give you a full lesson in history as he did.

Well, I was totally shocked by that and very annoyed because I thought he was filibustering.

I thought he would, I mean, I asked him, as I usually do, the most obvious, dumbest question ever, which is, you know, why'd you do this?

And he had said in a speech that I think is worth reading, I don't speak Russian, so I haven't heard it in the original, but he had said at the moment of the beginning of the war, he had given this address to Russians in which he explained to the fullest extent we have seen so far why he was doing this.

And he said in that speech, I fear that NATO, the West, the United States, the Biden administration will preemptively attack us.

I mean, I can't evaluate whether that's a fear rooted in reality or 1 rooted in paranoia, but I thought, well, that's an answer right there.

And so I alluded to that in my question, and rather than answering it, he went off on this long from my perspective, kind of tiresome sort of greatest hits of Russian history and the implication, I thought, was, well, Ukraine is ours or Eastern Ukraine is ours already.

And I thought he was doing that to avoid answering the question.

So, you know, the last thing you want when you're interviewing someone is to get rolled.

So I, a couple of times interrupted him politely, I thought, but he wasn't having it.

I'm not here to prove that I'm a great interviewer.

I think a Western audience, a global audience has a right to know more about the guy.

And so just let him talk, you know, cause it's not, you know, I don't feel like my reputation's on the line.

People have already drawn conclusions about me, I suppose, to the extent they have.

I'm not interested really in those conclusions anyway.

And so I calmed down and just let him talk.

And in retrospect, I thought that was really, really interesting.

You know, whether you agree with it or not, or whether you think it's relevant to the war in Ukraine or not, that was his answer.

No, I did my normal regimen of nicotine pouches and coffee.

I tried not to eat all the sweets they put in front of us, which is, that is my weakness, is eating crap.

But you eat a lot of sugar, as you know, before an interview, and it does dull you.

I wasn't nervous the whole time I was there.

You know, I'm 54, my kids are grown, I believe in God.

But no, I wasn't nervous, I was just interested.

I mean, I couldn't, you know, I'm interested in Soviet history.

And so to be in the Kremlin in a room where Stalin made decisions, either wartime decisions or decisions about murdering his own population, I just couldn't get over it.

So for me, I was just blown away by that.

It turns out I knew a lot about the Soviet period, you know, the 1937 purge trials, the famine in Ukraine.

Like I knew a fair amount about that, but I really knew nothing about contemporary Russia less than I thought I did, it turned out.

And, but yeah, I was just, I was just blown away by where we were.

And that's kind of 1 of the main drivers at this stage in my life.

That's why I do what I do is because I'm interested in stuff and I want to see as much as I can and try and draw conclusions from it to the extent I can.

So I was very much caught up in that, but no, I wasn't nervous.

I didn't think he's going to like kill me or something.

And I'm not particularly afraid of that anyway.

I mean, again, it's an age and stage in life thing.

I mean, I have 4 children, so there were times when they were little where I was terrified of dying, because if I died, it would have huge consequences.

But no, I mean, at this point, I don't wanna die, I'm really enjoying my life, But I've been with the same girl for 40 years, and I have 4 children who I'm extremely close to, well now 5, a daughter-in-law.

And I love them all, I'm really close to them, I tell them I love them every day.

I don't, I've had a really interesting life.

What would success be like in your head leading into it?

I mean, I have really strong feelings about what's happening, not just in Ukraine or Russia, but around the world.

I think the world is resetting to the grave disadvantage of the United States.

I don't think most Americans are aware of that at all.

And so that's my view and I've stated it many times because it's sincere.

But my goal was to have more information brought to the West so people could make their own decisions about whether this is a good idea.

I mean, I just I guess I reject the whole premise of the war in Ukraine from the American perspective, which is, you know, a tiny group of dumb people in Washington has decided to do this for reasons they won't really explain.

And you don't have a role in it at all as an American citizen, as the person who's paying for it, whose children might be drafted to fight it, you know, to shut up and obey.

You know, I think, I guess I'm a child of a different era.

I'm a child of participatory democracy to some extent, where your opinion as a citizen is not irrelevant.

And so I'm just, and I guess the level of lying about it was starting to drive me crazy.

And I've said, and I will say again, I am not an expert on the region or really any region other than say, Western Maine.

But it was obvious to me that we were being lied to in ways that were just...

The idea that Ukraine would inevitably win this war.

Now victory was never, as it never is, defined precisely.

Nothing is ever defined precisely, which is always a tell that there's deception at the heart of the claim.

I mean, I'm hardly a tactician or a military expert.

For the fifth time, I'm not an expert on Russia or Ukraine.

Russia has 100 million more people than Ukraine, 100 million.

It has much deeper industrial capacity, war material capacity than all of NATO combined.

For example, Russia is turning out artillery shells, which are significant in a ground war at a ratio of 7 to 1 compared to all NATO countries combined.

Russia is producing 7 times the artillery shells as all of Europe combined?

And it turns out to be a really significant fact, in fact, the significant fact.

But if you ask your average person in this country, even a fairly well-informed person of good faith who's just trying to understand what's going on, who's going to win this war?

And they think that because our media, who really just do serve the interest of the US government, period, they are state media in that sense, have told them that for over 2 years.

And I was in Hungary last summer talking to the prime minister, Viktor Orban, who's a, you know, whatever you think of him, he's a very smart guy, very smart guy, like smart on a scale that we're not used to in our leaders.

And I said to him off camera, so is Ukraine going to win?

He looked at me like I was deranged, or I was congenitally deficient.

And I said to him, I think most Americans believe that because NBC News and CNN and all the news channels, all of them tell them that because it's framed exclusively in moral terms and it's Churchill versus Hitler and of course, Churchill is going to prevail in the end.

And it's just so dishonest that even it doesn't even matter what I want to happen or what I think ought to happen.

That's a distortion of what is happening.

And if I have any job at all, which I sort of don't actually at this point, but if I do have a job, it's to just try to be honest.

There is a more nuanced discussion about what winning might look like.

A nuanced discussion is not being had, but it is possible for Ukraine to quote unquote win with the help of

I guess that conversation needs to begin by defining terms.

Coming to the table with, as you call it, the parent, the United States.

Putting leverage on the negotiation to make sure there's a fairness.

Well, of course, as a, and I should just restate this, I am not emotionally involved in this.

I'm American in every sense, and my only interest is in America.

And so I'm looking at this purely from our perspective, what's good for us.

But I'll just say as a human being, as a Christian, I mean, I hate war, and anybody who doesn't hate war shouldn't have power, in my opinion.

So I agree with that definition vehemently.

A victory is like not killing an entire generation of your population.

It's not being completely destroyed to be eaten up by BlackRock or whatever comes next for them.

So yeah, we were close to that a year and a half ago and the Biden administration dispatched Boris Johnson, the briefly prime minister of the UK to stop it and to say to Zelensky, who I feel sorry for, by the way, because he's caught between these forces that are bigger than he is, to say, no, you cannot come to any terms with Russia.

And the result of that has not been a Ukrainian victory.

It's just been more dead Ukrainians and a lot of profit for the West.

And I tried to ask Boris Johnson about it because why wouldn't I after he denounced me as a tool of the Kremlin or something.

And he demanded a million dollars to talk to me.

And and by the way, in writing, too, I'm not making this up.

the record, you demanded a million dollars from me

But and I said to his guy, I said, I just interviewed Putin, who was widely recognized as a bad guy.

Like, are you telling me that Boris Johnson is sleazier than Vladimir Putin?

And so I guess these are really, it's not just about Boris Johnson being a sad, you know, rapacious fraud, which he is obviously, but it's about like the future of the West and the future of Ukraine, this country that purportedly we care so much about, all these people are dying and like, what is the end game?

It's also deranged that I didn't imagine and don't imagine that I could like add anything very meaningful to the conversation because I'm not a genius, okay?

But I felt like I could at the very least puncture some of the lies and that's an inherent good.

Vladimir Putin, after the interview, said that he wasn't fully satisfied because you weren't aggressive enough.

First of all, what do you think about him saying that?

I guess it does seem like the 1 Putin statement that Western media take at face value.

Everything else Putin says is a lie except his criticism of me, which is true.

But I mean, I have no idea what he meant by that.

I can only tell you what my goal was, as I've suggested, was not to make it about me.

I watched, you know, he hasn't done any interviews of any kind for years.

But The last interview he did with an English-speaking reporter, Western media reporter, was like many of the other interviews he'd done with Western media reporters.

Mike Wallace's son did an interview with him that was of the same variety, and it was all about him.

And I just feel like that's the most tiresome, fruitless kind of interview.

I don't think I'm an especially good person.

I've definitely never claimed to be, but people can make their own judgments.

And again, the only judgments that I care about are my wife and children and God.

So I'm just not interested in proving I'm a good person.

And I had a lot of, I mean, you should see, I almost never write questions down, but I did in this case because I had months, well, I had 3 years to think about it as I was trying to book the interview, which I did myself.

But they were all, it was all about internal Russian politics and Navalny, and I had a lot of, I thought, really good questions.

And then at the last second, and you make these decisions, as you know, since you interview people a lot, often you make them on the fly.

And I thought, no, I want to talk about the things that haven't been talked about and that I think matter in a world historic sense.

And then number 1 among those, of course, is the war and what it means for the world.

I did ask about Gershkovich, who I felt sorry for, and I wanted Putin to release him to me, and I was offended that he didn't.

I said, well, doesn't that make him a hostage?

But other than that, I really wanted to keep it to the things that I think matter most.

You know, people can judge whether I did a good job or not, but that was my decision.

Did you want to ask some tough questions as follow-ups on certain topics?

Clarifying questions, I suppose they would.

You know, I just wanted to hear his perspective.

Again, I've probably asked more asshole questions than any living American.

As has been noted correctly, I'm a dick by my nature.

And so I just feel at this stage of my life, I didn't need to prove that I could like Vladimir Putin answer the question.

You know, I think if I had been, you know, 34 instead of 54, I definitely would have done that, because I would have thought this is really about me and I need to prove myself.

And also, no, I just, there's a war going on that is wrecking the US economy in a way and at a scale people do not understand.

That was of course inevitable ultimately because everything dies, including currencies, but that death, that process of death has been accelerated exponentially by the behavior of the Biden administration and the US Congress, particularly the sanctions.

And people don't understand what the ramifications of that are.

The ramifications are poverty in the United States, okay?

Because I'm coming at this from not a global perspective, I'm coming at it from an American perspective.

What are your thoughts on, just at a high level first, about his death?

I've known a lot of people in prison, a lot, including some very good friends of mine.

From a geopolitical perspective, I don't know any more than that.

And I laugh at and sort of resent but mostly find amusing the claims by American politicians who really are the dumbest politicians in the world, actually.

You know, this happened, and here's what it means.

And it's like, actually, as a factual matter, we don't know what happened.

We can say, and I did say, and I will say again, I don't think you should put opposition figures in prison.

Now, if I had to guess, I would say killing Navalny during the Munich security conference in the middle of a debate over $60 billion in Ukraine funding.

But maybe, you know, maybe they killed him.

See all Lex Fridman transcripts on Youtube

Tucker Carlson: Putin, Navalny, Trump, CIA, NSA, War, Politics & Freedom | Lex Fridman Podcast #414