Jeff Bezos talks about his childhood on a ranch in Texas and the impact his grandfather had on him.

Childhood on a Ranch

Jeff Bezos discusses the inspiring moments and insights he takes away from the space race and the Apollo program.

Inspiration from Space Exploration

Jeff Bezos shares his vision of a future with a trillion humans living in the solar system and the need to move heavy industry away from Earth.

The Future of Humanity in Space

Jeff Bezos talks about the Blue Ring spacecraft and its services for payloads in Earth and lunar vicinity orbits.

Blue Ring and Orbital Reef Space Infrastructure Projects

Jeff Bezos explains why he switched from studying theoretical physics to pursuing computer science and his approach to invention.

From Theoretical Physics to Invention

Jeff Bezos provides technical details about the New Glenn rocket, its engines, and the advantages of building large rockets.

New Glenn Rocket

Large turbo pumps are more efficient due to smaller gaps, while small turbo pumps face manufacturing challenges.

Efficiency of Large vs Small Turbo Pumps

Manufacturing large structures, such as launch pads, is challenging and costly.

Challenges in Manufacturing Large Structures

Carbon composites and friction stir welding have revolutionized rocket construction.

Advancements in Materials and Welding Techniques

Rocket materials need to withstand harsh conditions while being as light as possible.

Designing Lightweight and Strong Components

Working towards reusability and reducing the cost of space access is crucial for future endeavors.

The Path to Reusability and Lowering Costs

Building a factory and processes for efficient rate manufacturing is the main challenge for New Glenn's first launch.

The Challenge of Rate Manufacturing

Space exploration is a grand project of humanity that brings meaning and richness to our lives.

The Meaning and Rewards of Space Exploration

Jeff Bezos decided to ride New Shepard based on his trust in the vehicle's safety and engineering.

The Decision to Ride New Shepard

Blue Origin aims to become the world's most decisive company and move faster in space exploration.

The Future of Blue Origin

Most decisions are two-way doors. If you make the wrong decision, you can come back and pick another door. One-way door decisions are irreversible and require careful analysis.

Two-Way Door Decisions

One-way door decisions should be made by senior executives, while two-way door decisions can be made by individuals or small teams. Using a one-size-fits-all process can hinder efficiency.

Differentiating Decision-Making Processes

Disagree and commit is an important principle that saves time and resolves disagreements. It allows decisions to be made even when there is disagreement.

Disagree and Commit

Compromise and stubbornness are ineffective ways of resolving disputes. Escalation and seeking resolution quickly lead to higher velocity and better decision-making.

Effective Dispute Resolution

Blue Origin is developing a lunar lander program that aims to make lunar missions more affordable and sustainable. They are working on using lunar resources and extracting oxygen from lunar regolith.

Blue Origin's Lunar Program

Blue Origin and SpaceX are both working towards advancing humanity in space. They can be competitors and collaborators, and there is room for multiple successful companies in the space industry.

Competition and Collaboration

Day 1 thinking is about starting fresh every day and not being trapped by history or self-consistency. It involves customer obsession, skeptical view of proxies, eager adoption of external trends, and high velocity decision-making.

Day 1 Thinking

Managing to metrics that are outdated or no longer relevant can lead to day 2 thinking. Organizations need a culture that supports truth telling and encourages challenging established proxies.

Challenging Proxies

High-performing organizations require mechanisms and a culture that supports truth telling. It is important to acknowledge that truth telling can be uncomfortable and goes against our natural tendencies.

Importance of Truth Telling

The speaker discusses the importance of being social animals, telling the truth, and being cooperative.

The Importance of Truth and Cooperation

The speaker talks about the hierarchy in science and companies and the importance of setting up a culture where the most junior person can overrule the most senior person if they have data.

Hierarchy and Culture in Science and Companies

The speaker emphasizes the importance of hearing everyone's opinion in an unfiltered way and making decisions based on data.

The Power of Opinions and Data

The speaker shares a story about challenging the accuracy of data in customer service and discusses the obsession with customer experience in Amazon.

Challenges in Truth-Telling and Customer Experience

The speaker expresses optimism about the potential of AI, discusses the impact of technology on human evolution, and mentions the product opportunities in AI and machine learning.

AI, Human Evolution, and Product Opportunities

The speaker talks about their exercise routine, work life, and involvement in Blue Origin. They also mention the importance of focus and thinking retreats.

Exercise Routine and Work Life

The importance of clarity in documents and the value of messy meetings.

Clarity and Messy Meetings

The six-page narratively structured memo used in meetings at Amazon and Blue Origin.

The CRISP Document

The process of reading and discussing memos in meetings.

The Process of Running a Meeting with Memos

The difficulties of using PowerPoint in meetings and the benefits of using memos.

The Problems with PowerPoint

The concept and purpose of the 10,000 year clock as a symbol for long-term thinking.

Long-Term Thinking and the 10,000 Year Clock

Jeff Bezos' perspective on mortality and his focus on health span.

Mortality and the Future

Closing remarks and appreciation for the conversation.

Closing Remarks

Millions of humans living in space colonies

Trillions of humans living in the solar system

Moving payloads to Earth vicinity or lunar vicinity

He discovered his passion for computer science

He found theoretical physics too challenging

Mathematical skills and visualization skills

A welding technique that uses heat to join two pieces of metal

A welding technique that stirs the molecules of two pieces of metal together

A welding technique that uses explosive charges to join two pieces of metal

A welding technique that uses friction to join two pieces of metal

To solve all the problems of space flight

To make space flight accessible to everyone

To build the largest rockets in the world

Building a factory for rate manufacturing

To become the world's most customer-obsessed company

To build heavy infrastructure for space exploration

To create a tourism vehicle for space travel

To eliminate the risk of a failed mission

Deliberately and with careful consideration

To analyze the decisions from multiple perspectives

To make all decisions in the organization

One-way door decisions can be easily reversed, while two-way door decisions are irreversible

One-way door decisions are irreversible, while two-way door decisions can be easily reversed

One-way door decisions are made by senior executives, while two-way door decisions are made by single individuals

One-way door decisions require careful consideration, while two-way door decisions can be made quickly

Disagreeing with a decision and not taking any action

Disagreeing with a decision but still supporting and committing to it

Disagreeing with a decision and actively working against it

Disagreeing with a decision and seeking compromise

To increase velocity and maximize the efficiency of the system

To ensure all decisions are made by senior executives

To establish a permanent human presence on the moon

To develop sustainable technologies for space travel

Lunar regolith for manufacturing commodities and solar cells

Hydrogen and oxygen extracted from lunar regolith

Ice water found in the permanently shadowed craters

Automation for setting up factories and machines

To land cargo on the moon and make lunar missions more affordable

To develop solar-powered cryo coolers for storing hydrogen

To create a reusable lander for human missions to the moon

To extract oxygen from lunar regolith for sustaining life

He will support and inspire future generations of astronauts

He will focus on developing automation technologies

He will collaborate with Elon Musk on space exploration

He thinks Elon is a capable leader based on the results he has achieved

He believes Elon's public persona accurately represents his leadership style

He thinks Elon is a visionary but lacks leadership skills

He believes Elon's success is due to luck rather than leadership abilities

Starting fresh every day and making new decisions

Being trapped by history and self-consistency

Ignoring the baseline statistics of startup companies

Being optimistic about the success of a startup

To avoid blindly following metrics that are no longer relevant

To prioritize customer obsession in decision making

It creates a culture of innovation and improvement

It ensures seniority matters in decision making

It promotes social cooperation and survival

Focusing on both big things and small paper cuts

Prioritizing the big things and ignoring the small details

Fixing the big issues and leaving the small details to dedicated teams

Improving the overall product or service quality

It causes cognitive load and frustration.

To make the shopping process more efficient.

To reduce friction in the order pipeline.

To increase happiness and emotional satisfaction.

Analyzing business advice from successful founders

They help in achieving inner peace and happiness

We have become better at processing short-form content

We have become less reliant on technology

We have become more focused and productive

It brings about personal growth and development

It improves relationships and social interactions

It enhances physical health and well-being

It can help save humanity from self-destruction

It can lead to the extinction of the human species

It can enhance human intelligence and abilities

It can create a utopian society with no problems

They are discoveries rather than inventions

They are engineered objects with known capabilities

They are inventions that have surprised us with their capabilities

They are still in the early stages of development

It can be very bad for humanity, especially in warfare

It can lead to significant advancements in various fields

It can bring about positive changes in society

It can be a powerful tool for creativity and innovation

He is optimistic and believes AI will save us

He is concerned and believes AI will harm us

He is uncertain and believes AI has both positive and negative impacts

He is indifferent and believes AI will have no significant impact

To provide clarity and facilitate a solution-focused meeting

To encourage discussion and collaboration

PowerPoint presentations are time-consuming

Memos allow for better audience understanding

PowerPoint presentations are persuasive tools

- Jeff Bezos discusses his childhood experiences on a ranch in Texas, where he learned self-reliance and problem-solving skills.
- He reflects on the space race between the Soviet Union and the US, highlighting the incredible achievements and risks taken by astronauts.
- Bezos envisions a future where trillions of humans live in the solar system, inhabiting giant space stations and utilizing resources from the moon and asteroids.

- The speaker believes that most people will want to live near Earth in order to easily travel between Earth and space.
- They argue that space exploration is a way to preserve Earth and its resources.
- The speaker discusses the Blue Ring spacecraft, which can transport payloads to geosynchronous orbit or lunar vicinity.
- Blue Ring provides various services such as thermal management, electric power, compute, and communications.
- The speaker mentions the need to go into space due to the increasing energy usage per capita on Earth.
- They discuss their interest in physics and how they switched to computer science after realizing they would be a mediocre theoretical physicist.

- The speaker switched to computer science and enjoys it, but emphasizes the importance of strong math skills in theoretical physics.
- They describe themselves as an inventor and highlight the need for lateral thinking and creativity in problem-solving.
- The speaker mentions the importance of wandering and giving oneself permission to explore different ideas.
- They discuss the process of noticing and developing good ideas, acknowledging that objections are common in the beginning stages.
- The speaker believes there are many different ways to be smart and finds it interesting to discover how people are smart in unique ways.
- The New Glenn rocket is a large, heavy lift launch vehicle with specific technical aspects such as engine thrust, fuel, and propellant choices.
- The speaker explains the benefits and challenges of size in rocket design, including the impact on parasitic mass and the efficiency of rotating machines.

- The efficiency of pumps and rotating machines increases as they get larger, but manufacturing large structures is challenging.
- Large rockets require heavy lift operations, tooling, and extensive construction, making them more difficult and costly to build compared to small rockets.
- Materials used in rocket construction, such as carbon composites and friction stir welding, have advanced significantly since the 1960s.
- Friction stir welding allows for strong welds without weak regions, reducing the weight of tanks and structures.
- The fairings on top of the rocket are designed to fall apart when needed and use explosive charges for separation.
- The first stage of the rocket is reusable, while the second stage is currently expendable, but there is a path towards making it reusable in the future.
- The main goal is to reduce the cost of access to orbit, which will open up new opportunities in space exploration and innovation.
- Cost reduction is achieved through inventing better ways and making the world richer.
- The biggest challenges in manufacturing and engineering for the New Glenn rocket are related to achieving the first launch.

- The biggest challenge in manufacturing New Glenn is ensuring efficient production at a high rate.
- Manufacturing facilities, processes, inspection techniques, and acceptance tests all need to operate at rate.
- Rate manufacturing is as difficult as designing the vehicle itself.
- The goal is to produce New Glenns in a way that enables efficient production of subsequent vehicles.
- Building heavy infrastructure is necessary to unlock ingenuity and imagination in space exploration.
- The first launch of New Glenn is expected in 2024, with uncertainty about the payload.
- The CEO is nervous but optimistic about the first launch, and ground testing and simulation have resolved many potential issues.
- The transporter erector for New Glenn is an impressive machine.
- The CEO was not nervous when riding New Shepard on its first crewed flight.

- The speaker had an incredible experience in space and felt loved by their family before the launch.
- Being in zero gravity felt natural and gave them a powerful perspective on the fragility of Earth.
- The decision to ride in the New Shepard spacecraft was made based on trust in the vehicle's design and the team behind it.
- The escape system in the spacecraft is automated and designed to react quickly in case of emergencies.
- Blue Origin, the company behind the spacecraft, needs to move faster and become more decisive.
- The speaker wants Blue Origin to be the world's most decisive company and take appropriate technology risks.

- Most decisions are two-way doors, meaning they can be reversed if they turn out to be wrong.
- One-way door decisions are consequential and irreversible, requiring careful analysis and deliberation.
- Two-way door decisions should be made quickly by individuals or small teams within the organization.
- Disagree and commit is an important principle that allows for decision-making and commitment, even when there is disagreement.
- Compromise and stubbornness are ineffective resolution mechanisms, and escalation should be used instead.
- Quick decision-making is essential for increasing velocity and maintaining a fast and decisive culture.
- Blue is working on its own lander program for the lunar mission, with the Mark I lander designed to carry cargo to the moon's surface.

- Jeff Bezos discusses his childhood experiences on a ranch in Texas and the skills he learned.
- He envisions a future with trillions of humans living in the solar system and utilizing space resources.
- Bezos believes space exploration is a way to preserve Earth and its resources.
- He discusses the Blue Ring spacecraft and its services.
- The speaker emphasizes the importance of strong math skills and lateral thinking in problem-solving.
- They discuss the benefits and challenges of size in rocket design.
- The main goal is to reduce the cost of access to orbit for space exploration and innovation.
- The biggest challenges in manufacturing the New Glenn rocket are related to achieving the first launch.
- The first launch of New Glenn is expected in 2024.
- The speaker had an incredible experience in space and emphasizes the importance of trust in the spacecraft design.
- Blue Origin needs to become more decisive and take appropriate technology risks.
- Quick decision-making and commitment are important principles for the company.
- Blue Origin is working on its own lander program for lunar missions.

Blue Origin is developing a lunar lander called Mark II for NASA's Artemis program, which is designed to be reusable and can bring cargo and humans back from the moon. The company is also working on using lunar resources like regolith to manufacture commodities and solar cells on the moon, as well as extracting oxygen from regolith. The ultimate goal is to make the moon more sustainable and reduce the cost of lunar missions. Blue Origin and SpaceX are seen as competitors in the space industry, but there is room for multiple successful companies. Jeff Bezos, the founder of Blue Origin, believes that Elon Musk, the founder of SpaceX, is a capable leader.

- Early investors were told there was a 30% chance of success in the startup company
- Startups are unlikely to work, but it's important to be optimistic
- Amazon is exciting and a privilege to be a part of, despite the challenges
- "Day 1 thinking" is about starting fresh every day and making new decisions
- To fend off "Day 2" (stagnation), essential elements include customer obsession, skeptical view of proxies, adoption of external trends, and high velocity decision making
- Skeptical view of proxies means not getting trapped by metrics that may no longer be relevant
- It is important to have a culture that supports truth telling, even if it is uncomfortable or challenging.

- The speaker emphasizes the importance of communication and cooperation in human survival and in scientific processes.
- They suggest setting up a culture where the most junior person can overrule the most senior person if they have data.
- The speaker shares a strategy of speaking last in meetings to avoid influencing others' opinions.
- They discuss the importance of backing opinions with data, but also acknowledge the power of intuition and anecdotes.
- The speaker shares an example of how customer complaints revealed a flaw in data collection and the importance of seeking truth, even when uncomfortable.
- They highlight the obsession with customer experience at Amazon and the focus on both big issues and small customer experience deficiencies.
- The speaker mentions the importance of identifying and focusing on the big things that will not change over time.
- They explain the concept of "paper cuts" as small customer experience deficiencies and the need for dedicated teams to address them.
- The "buy now with 1 click" button is mentioned as an example of a frictionless and intuitive customer experience.

- The speaker believes that buying things and having enough money to buy them is a pleasant experience.
- One-click shopping on Amazon was a solution to a series of inconveniences and brought happiness to customers.
- The speaker emphasizes the emotional beauty and satisfaction of creating innovative ideas.
- The speaker discusses the impact of technology, such as the Kindle and social media, on attention spans and the need for long-form activities like reading books.
- AI, particularly large language models, is seen as a powerful tool that can have both positive and negative impacts on humanity.
- The speaker is optimistic about the potential of AI to help and save humanity, but acknowledges the need for caution and responsible use.
- The movie "Oppenheimer" is referenced to highlight the challenge of humans handling powerful technologies like nuclear weapons.

- The speaker believes that there will be significant benefits from AI technologies before the development of general AI.
- There are still tricks and techniques to be discovered in AI, as humans are more power efficient and require less data for certain tasks.
- Scaling up AI models can also lead to significant advancements.
- Language models struggle with being truly original and determining what is true or not.
- There are many opportunities for AI products, such as smarter virtual assistants like Alexa.
- The speaker is involved in building foundational models and tools for enterprise clients.
- The challenge lies in maintaining security and privacy while training on private data.
- The speaker believes that humans and robots could have romantic relationships, although it may not be widespread.
- Jeff Bezos' productive day involves puttering, coffee, exercise, and work.
- He spends most of his time on Blue Origin, reading documents, having meetings, and focusing on technology.
- Building organizations is his least favorite part of the work.

- The speaker achieves focused thinking by going on thinking retreats and allowing meetings to go longer than planned
- Meetings at Amazon and Blue Origin start with a six-page memo that everyone reads silently for 30 minutes before discussing
- The use of memos instead of PowerPoint presentations allows for better discussion and avoids the problem of people not reading the memo beforehand
- Writing a six-page memo forces the author to be clear and concise in their thinking
- The speaker is known for the 10,000 year clock, a symbol for long-term thinking that will hopefully extend humanity's thinking horizons
- The clock is designed to last 10,000 years with no human intervention and is located in a remote location to encourage pilgrimage and contemplation
- Long-term thinking is important as humans have become more powerful and need to consider the unintended consequences of their actions
- The speaker believes humans will still be here when the clock runs out, although civilizations may rise and fall

- Blue Origin is developing a reusable lunar lander for NASA's Artemis program.
- They are also working on using lunar resources for manufacturing and extracting oxygen.
- The goal is to make the moon more sustainable and reduce the cost of lunar missions.
- Jeff Bezos believes Elon Musk is a capable leader.
- The speaker emphasizes the importance of optimism and communication in startups.
- They discuss the essential elements for avoiding stagnation in a company.
- A culture of truth telling and data-driven decision making is important.
- The speaker highlights the obsession with customer experience at Amazon.
- They discuss the impact of technology, AI, and the need for caution and responsible use.
- The speaker is involved in building AI models and tools for enterprise clients.
- Jeff Bezos' productive day involves puttering, coffee, exercise, and work.
- Building organizations is his least favorite part of the work.
- The speaker achieves focused thinking through thinking retreats and longer meetings.
- Meetings at Amazon and Blue Origin start with a six-page memo for better discussion.
- The speaker is known for the 10,000 year clock, symbolizing long-term thinking.

- The speaker used to be afraid of death but as they have gotten older, that fear has diminished.
- They want to stay alive as long as possible but focus more on being healthy and not experiencing a long decay.
- They are curious about the future and want to see how things turn out.
- They have reasons to stay around, such as their love for family and friends.
- The speaker thanks Jeff Bezos for creating Amazon and trying to make humans a multi-planetary species.
- The conversation is with Jeff Bezos and the podcast is supported by sponsors.
- The speaker ends with a quote from Jeff Bezos about being stubborn on vision but flexible on details.

The speaker used to fear death but now focuses on staying healthy and curious about the future. They have reasons to stay alive and thank Jeff Bezos for his contributions to humanity. The conversation is with Jeff Bezos and the podcast is supported by sponsors. The speaker ends with a quote from Jeff Bezos about being stubborn on vision but flexible on details.

Jeff Bezos is the founder of Amazon and Blue Origin.

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TRANSCRIPT:
https://lexfridman.com/jeff-bezos-transcript

EPISODE LINKS:
Jeff's Instagram: https://instagram.com/jeffbezos
Jeff's Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeffbezos
Amazon: https://amazon.com
Blue Origin: https://blueorigin.com
Invent and Wander (book): https://amzn.to/41bF2SY

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OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
0:24 - Texas ranch and childhood
4:02 - Space exploration and rocket engineering
16:36 - Physics
26:10 - New Glenn rocket
1:08:59 - Lunar program
1:18:55 - Amazon
1:36:16 - Principles
1:54:56 - Productivity
2:05:34 - Future of humanity

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The following is a conversation with Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon and Blue Origin.

This is his first time doing a conversation of this kind and of this length.

And as he told me, it felt like we could have easily talked for many more hours, and I'm sure we will.

This is the Lex Friedman Podcast, and now, dear friends, here's Jeff Bezos.

You spent a lot of your childhood with your grandfather on a ranch here in Texas.

And I heard you had a lot of work to do around the ranch.

So what's the coolest job you remember doing there?

And I spent all my summers on that ranch from age 4 to 16.

And my grandfather was really taking me those in the summers and in the early summers, he was letting me pretend to help on the ranch.

Because of course a 4 year old is a burden, not a help in real life.

He'd be really just watching me and taking care of me.

And he was doing that because my mom was so young.

She had me when she was 17 and so he was sort of giving her a break and my grandmother and my grandfather would take me for these summers.

But as I got a little older, I actually was helpful on the ranch and I loved it.

I was out there, like my grandfather had a huge influence on me, huge factor in my life.

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Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin | Lex Fridman Podcast #405