David Fravor is a navy pilot of 18 years and a primary witness in one of the most credible UFO sightings in history. Please check out our sponsors to get a discount and to support this podcast:
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OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
7:13 - Top Gun
12:06 - Navy pilot career
24:14 - AI is the third brain of a jetfighter 
40:37 - Sully
47:34 - Landing a jet fighter on a carrier
53:18 - What's it like to fly a jet fighter?
1:05:22 - Greatest plane ever made
1:11:04 - The Tic Tac UFO story
1:49:16 - Intelligent extraterrestrial life
1:53:30 - Why aren't UFOs investigated more seriously
1:59:52 - Tic Tac UFO details
2:07:55 - What do you think the Tic Tac was?
2:16:23 - SpaceX
2:30:01 - Response to Mick West Debunking
2:48:24 - Was the Tic Tac a secret military test?
3:00:07 - Is the government in possession of alien spacecraft?
3:25:28 - Interesting UFO sightings in history
3:39:55 - Advice for Young People
3:47:47 - Meaning of life

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The following is a conversation with Commander David Fravor, who was a Navy pilot for 18 years and commander of the Strike Fighter Squadron 41, also known as the Black Aces, a squadron of 12 airplanes consisting of several hundred people.

He's also famously 1 of the people who with his own eyes saw and chased a UFO, an identified flying object in 2004 that is referred to as the Tic Tac and the incident more formally referred to as the USS Nimitz UFO incident.

His story corroborated by several other pilots, from my perspective as a curious scientist and an open-minded human being, is the most credible sighting of a UFO in history, at least that I'm aware of.

He's a humble, fascinating, and fun human being to talk to.

I put out a call for questions on Reddit and many other places and tried to ask as many of the questions that people posted as I could.

And overall, I really enjoyed this conversation, and I'm sure if the world wants us to, and if there's more questions to be had, we'll talk on this podcast again.

Quick summary of the sponsors, Athletic Greens, ExpressVPN, and BetterHelp.

Please check out the sponsors in the description to get a discount and to support this podcast.

As a side note, let me say that the world of UFOs and UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomena and aliens in general is foreign to me because of the high ratio of outlandish conspiracy theorists to actual hard evidence.

I'm a scientist first and foremost, but an open-minded 1, often looking and thinking outside the box.

I'm often disheartened by the closed-mindedness of the scientific community.

And in equal part, I'm disheartened by the lack of rigor and basic scientific inquiry and study on the part of the conspiracy theorists.

I believe there's a line somewhere between the 2 extremes that more inquisitive minds should walk.

I think we humans know very little about our world, what's up there among the stars, and the nature of reality, and the nature of our very own minds.

The path to understanding can only be walked humbly.

The very idea that there is a possibility that David witnessed a piece of technology, whether human made or alien made, that moved in the way it did, should be inspiring to every scientist and engineer on this Earth.

There may be propulsion and energy systems yet to be discovered that, once understood and mastered, will put distant galaxies within reach of us human beings.

Paradigm shifts in science and leaps in understanding can only happen, I think, if we open our eyes and allow ourselves to dream, to think from first principles, and remove the constraints on innovation placed on us by the scientific conventions and assumptions of prior generations.

If you enjoy this thing, subscribe on YouTube, review the 5 Stars on Apple Podcasts, follow on Spotify, support on Patreon, or connect with me on Twitter at Lex Friedman.

As usual, I'll do a few minutes of ads now, and no ads in the middle.

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This show is brought to you by Athletic Greens, the all-in-one daily drink to support health and performance.

I drink it every day to make sure I'm not missing any of the nutrition I need.

Now, let me take a hard left turn and talk about fasting.

I fast often, sometimes intermittent fasting of 16 hours and then an 8 hour eating period of 2 meals, sometimes 24 hours, that's 1 dinner to the next.

I've been even considering doing a 48 or 72 hour fast that some people I look up to have done.

People who have done it tell me that outside of weight loss and the different health benefits, it's a chance to meditate on the finiteness of life.

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And now, finally, here's my conversation with David Fravor.

You're a graduate of the Navy fighter weapons school.

So it's funny, we used to joke, and a friend of mine who was a Top Gun instructor said this.

There's 2 things in the original Top Gun that are true, that are very realistic.

And number 2 is, they do fly airplanes there.

Other than that, I went through in 97, class 497, and There's actually a log of every single person that's went through, kind of like SEAL training.

So people, because there's a lot of posers out there, oh, I was a Navy SEAL.

And matter of fact, just to get a Top Gun patch, the real patch, you have to have gone there.

So a lot of the patches you see, running around are not real.

And when you go in, they look up your name.

If you want to get 1, they look up your name.

You just tell them, they go, okay, here, and I'll sell them to you.

If you are not on the list, you ain't getting no patch.

Because it is, it's, it's, it's a pretty big deal to go through, but it's for me, probably 1 of the best experiences of flying, because everyone there is extremely competent.

So it's, it's just the entire group that is when you want to be that level, where you go, everyone really cares and everyone really wants to be good.

No, when you go through, if anything, it's more of the students and then there's the instructor side.

And the instructor sides are really, you know, they're guys that you know, they just chose to stay up in Fallon.

And it's extremely difficult job because they have a very small tolerance for not being good.

So they're briefs, the guys when they give a lecture.

So let's just say there's a fighter employment lecture, which is 1 of the hardest ones.

It takes about 2 days to give the fighter employment lecture.

The guy who gives the lecture goes through multiple, they call them murder boards, where he's scrutinized by his peers and he practices.

By the time they actually stand in front of a class, they pretty much have their 250 PowerPoint slides memorized and they don't even turn around.

They just click and they know them in order.

So they are extremely, extremely standardized when you go through the school.

Because what they're doing is they're training.

So when you come out of Top Gun, you're called a strike fighter weapons and tactics instructor.

When you come out of that, your job is to go usually to 1 of the weapons schools on the East or West coast and train the fleet squadrons.

And then you visit the squadrons and train and do upgrade rides and all that.

So there's a, there's a reason that they're extremely, particular when you go through the course.

It is literally 1 of the best things and it's not a rank-based thing because think oh Navy.

You can come in as like an 04 lieutenant commander.

The lieutenants, the hierarchy, or at least to be, I don't know how it is exactly today But I imagine it's the same the hierarchy is actually based on seniority at the school not necessarily ranked So when the tactical decisions are made which are based on fact and and trying things out in the Fallon ranges They set this the top X number of folks that have been there seniority-wise, and I mean time-wise, are the ones that actually make the decision.

And when the door, you may not agree, but when the door opens and everyone comes out from the staff, they all speak the same language.

And it has to be that way, which is why the school has been so effective since it was founded.

So it's just a, it's an incredible group of individuals.

So there's a bar of excellence that the instructors demand.

So it's not a, hey, I'm now an instructor so I can do what I want.

There is a standard and they have to live up to that standard, they have to, and I mean every moment of every day.

So if they go someplace, if they go from Fallon and they come down and do, they're called site visits where they come down and they'll come to Lamour, California, which is where the West Coast Fighter Wing is at for the Navy.

And they go around and start flying sorties with the fleet squadrons to kind of pass on some of that knowledge.

It's they can't just drop your guard because you wear the Top Gun patch and people know that.

And they wear light blue shirts so it's pretty easy to identify them when they're out there and you know And then everyone else who's been through the school, including them, have the patch on their sleeve.

So there's a standard that's expected when you come out of there.

Can you briefly tell the story of your career as a pilot?

And then the Marines actually sent me, recommended me to go to the Naval Academy.

So it's always better to be lucky than good.

But I got to go to the Naval Academy and I finished.

Since 1969 when I watched Neil Armstrong walk on the moon.

I was at that point, I asked my mom, I remember watching it.

And I said, wow, yeah, it's so cool, mom.

And she said, well, you know, they were all pilots.

And then at that point it was like, I'm going to be a pilot.

And if you knew me growing up, cause I was a little bit of a delinquent, People are just like, yeah, right.

Then, and if people that knew me when I was a kid, they'd be like, yeah, and they'd be like, not a chance.

And then when I did, I actually had a, it's a funny story and I'll get to it, I'll finish my career, but I was at my cousin's wedding and we all grew up in the same neighborhood.

We kind of, they had Italian side of the family.

So it was my house right down the street.

It was my cousin Chad and then right around the corner is my cousin Ray and

The guy 2 doors down from my house, a paperboy

in the neighborhood, so they all knew me.

And I went to my cousin's wedding and he and Mr.

Race looks at me and he says, David Fravor.

He goes, you fly jets, top gun and all that.

He goes, man, I figured you'd be in jail by now.

And it was kind of a, to me it was a little bit of a badge of honor going on.

So you, I've heard you before and just now say that it's better to be lucky than good.

And you talk modestly about just being lucky, but if you were to describe your trajectory, maybe in a way of advice, like retrospectively, how'd you pull it off to be truly a special person?

Don't let anyone put you down and say you can't do it.

I knew what I was capable of inside, you know, and if I really believe if you want something and you want to do something, then you, you can achieve it.

Like if I loved basketball and I really wanted to be in the NBA, there's a realism that says I'm 5 foot 8 and I got like a really short vertical leap and I'm really not that good at basketball.

It's probably not ever gonna happen no matter how hard I try and practice.

Or for me to be in the NFL, I'm not fast, you know, I'm not that big.

It's just physically, I'm incapable of doing that.

But there's things that don't really tie to a true physical ability as far as size and strength, but it's mental.

And I'm not saying you have to be a genius and super smart to be a fighter pilot.

It really comes down to the ability to think very quickly.

80% solution is typically good enough because if you overthink it, you're behind.

And then in an air-to-air fight, that's what happens.

And before you know it, because it's happening so fast, you don't have, you can't get to the nth degree, you know, 6 decimal places.

You build up a really strong gut for the 80% solution.

Yeah, I'm a big believer in the 80% solution.

If you get 80%, you can go, And then you can always adjust, which is exactly what, like if you're fighting in BFM, the 80% solution is it's like a chess game, but it's a really, really fast chess game where you go, I'm doing this.

And then I know that if I do a maneuver, if he's going to counter it correctly, he should do A.

If he doesn't do A, he does some degree less like BCD and then I know how bad his error is and then I capitalize.

I don't have to go – I need to go to 47 degrees nose high.

If I just kind of get above 40, then I'm good and I can watch how he reacts and then I can adjust for that.

And you continually work that problem and you chip away because if you start neutral, you're just basically chipping away and gaining advantage, advantage, advantage, till eventually, you know, and if you're really, you know, fighting, you know, just guns only rear quarter where you got to get behind the guy, kind of World War II dogfighting type stuff, then it's literally a very, very fast chess game that happens at 400 knots, 300 knots, depends.

So to get to be 1 of the rare individuals that are able to do that, he just had the dream and didn't take no for an answer.

My dad was, I used to call him a fire ready aim guy.

He'd smack me and then ask me what I did wrong.

Back then, I joke and people look because at times it was tough because he can be pretty demanding, but on the other side, I probably needed to be reined in a little bit at times.

But then everyone else in my family, my mom was really awesome when I was a kid.

My grandfather who is a big, big part of it, my mom's dad, he taught me a lot.

You have a question there that we'll talk about him, but huge, huge influence, very, very positive.

And a lot of the stuff that I do today and decisions are based on things that he taught me.

And I figured it was the first funeral I ever went to and it was about 3 miles long and church was overfilling and people were out.

He was a beer delivery guy, dead serious.

And you go, someone asked who died, the Pope.

No, when I was at the, I was going to stay in the Marines.

I really wanted to go, man, I love the Corps.

I think it's, of all services, it's that 1.

Everything is in a ball, and they're very, very professional, and it was a great, great organization to join.

But I went out to the Nimitz on my freshman cruise.

After your freshman year at the Naval Academy, you go out on a ship and you're an enlisted person.

You get to experience that half, but I already was enlisted, so it was fine with me.

Because it comes up a lot, you mind saying what the Nimitz is, what a ship is?

So it's 4 and a half acres of sovereign U.S.

It does have defensive weapons, but for the most part, it's a giant moving airport is what it is.

So I was out there watching the airplanes land and take off And I'm like, oh, and the squadrons that were out there, 1 of the squadrons was a VF-41 and F-14 squadron, VF-84 and F-14 squadron, and then a couple of A-6 squadrons.

And we actually ended up part pairing up and hanging out with some of the A-6 pilots and BNs.

And the way to do it was to not to go in the Navy, because there are Marine squadrons that go out to the aircraft carriers, but most of them are land-based to support the Marines, because they're that unit, that whole unit.

The Marine Corps is that 1 service that has it all.

And so when I graduated and I got to, I worked hard through primary and that's where I knew Missy.

We were in the, actually went through together, Missy Cummings.

We went through primary together and then I went to Kingsville, we all selected the same time.

I went to Kingsville, there was another guy, Scott Wiedemeyer, the 3 of us.

I went to Kingsville, Scott went to Beeville and Missy went to Meridian.

So the 3 of us that we had all went through, we got, we selected out of primary together.

And that's, that's how I, besides from school, I knew her at school too.

It took me 2 years to the day from the time I graduated the Naval Academy until I got my wings.

And through some luck, I ended up getting A6s on the West Coast, which is a side-by-side bomber, so it's a pilot on the left seat and the bombardier navigators on the right seat.

It is all-weather and it flies low at night.

How many, I guess, is that a good term to use, fighter jet, as a broad category for the public?

How many fighter jets are side by side like that?

That was, in the Navy, that was the only 1.

The Air Force, the F-111 was a side-by-side, but the Navy, it was the A-6.

And then there's the EA-6B, which is a derivative of that.

The EA-6Bs just went away a few years ago, and now the E-18G Growler is the replacement for the EA-6B.

There was never a replacement for the A6 that I flew.

It really became the F-18, which the A6 could go quite a bit further distance wise by fuel than the Hornet.

Is there usually 2 people in the plane, but they're usually like in front and behind?

But most of the tactical airplanes in the world today are

With the exception of, probably someone will yell at me, but really with the exception of the F-15E Strike Eagle and the F-18F Super Hornet, which is the F is a 2 seater

and the G is also a 2 seater, but it's more of

an electronic attack by say full up fighter bomber.

So most of the time that you've flown in your, like I said, 18 year career, was it 2 seater?

Then I went to single seat F-18s, and I flew those all the way up until 2000 and, let me think, 2001, to the end of 2001.

And then I shifted over and started flying the Super Hornets and I flown both of those, the Es and the Es.

But I deployed when I had command of VFA 41, I had the 2 seat, they were F squadron.

So you eventually ended up commanding the strike fighter squadron 41.

Is there some parts of that journey that are amazing, parts of it that are tough, that kind of stand out?

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David Fravor: UFOs, Aliens, Fighter Jets, and Aerospace Engineering | Lex Fridman Podcast #122