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EPISODE LINKS:
GSP's Twitter: https://twitter.com/GeorgesStPierre
GSP's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/georgesstpierre/
GSP's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/georgesstpierre
GSP's Website: https://www.gspofficial.com

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OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
1:29 - Love of winning
4:21 - Suffering
5:23 - Fasting
15:22 - Carnivore
21:50 - Fear
29:22 - Strategy
32:32 - Mind games
36:14 - Mental games
41:21 - Science of fighting
1:05:00 - GOAT
1:08:42 - A fight vs Khabib
1:18:23 - Free will
1:22:10 - Consciousness
1:24:25 - AI
1:34:33 - Aliens
1:45:42 - Dreams
1:51:15 - Father
1:56:18 - Life and love
2:10:27 - Advice for young people
2:12:48 - How to learn
2:16:15 - Bruce Lee
2:19:24 - Tie choke
2:26:09 - Best martial art for self-defense
2:30:48 - Meaning of life

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The following is a conversation with George St.

Pierre, considered by many to be the greatest fighter in the history of UFC and MMA, but even more than that, 1 of the greatest martial artists ever.

Quick mention of our sponsors, Allform, ExpressVPN, Blinkist, Theragun, and The Information.

Check them out in the description to support this podcast.

As a side note, let me say that getting the chance to hang out with George, talk to him on the podcast, record a quick self-defense video that I'll release soon, all while both of us wearing suits was 1 of the most memorable days of my life.

In setting all this up, I talked to Joe Rogan, and originally we couldn't schedule a chat with him and George on the JRE, which allowed me to pretend for a brief time that George came down to Austin just to see me.

In truth, him and Joe probably conspired to make me feel special, but that's the point.

It's inspiring to see George and Joe, who are at the top of their field, treat others as equals, as human beings, no matter who they are, even silly Russians in a suit.

Meeting George was an honor for me beyond words.

This is the Lex Friedman podcast, and here's my conversation with my long time martial arts hero, and now my friend, Mr.

In your fighting career, were you more motivated by the love of winning or the fear and hatred of losing?

I like to win better than I hate to lose because if it would not have been the case, I would never have fought in the first place because I don't like to fight

But you talked about the anxiety, the fear that you experienced leading up to a fight.

So to you, ultimately, the reason to go through that difficult process is because it feels damn good to have your hand raised?

There is also the fact that martial art had been introduced when I was very young, And it's probably the best thing I can do in my life.

Also, it provides me of freedom, of access of things that most of people do not have, but all that as a price and a lot of money.

I made a lot of money, of course, with it.

I was maybe predisposed with certain abilities.

I met incredible mentors throughout my life.

And in order to keep those advantages of freedom, money and glory and access of things that most people don't have, and have this dream life that I have, I had to sacrifice myself and fight in order to keep it.

It's very hard to understand because I also believe most fighters are not like me.

A lot of guys, because I corner a lot of guys, and it seems to me that they love their job.

I love the science of fighting, the sport, to be in good shape, the confidence that training in mixed martial art give me.

However, I do not like the feeling of uncertainty, the stress that I have, not knowing if I will be badly injured or humiliated or winning the fight.

And that's what takes the most out of me.

More than brain damage, more than anything, that's what takes the most out of me.

But the thing you get from it is the freedom that you get because of the money, but because of the celebrity, because of everything that comes with it.

So you can be the best version of yourself because of fighting.

But at the same time, you've said that, quote, I don't believe there's pleasure in life.

I believe there's only a relief from pain.

So isn't there something to just the suffering in itself, just doing really difficult shit just to get to the top?

To explain that and so people can relate to it, because not everybody's a fighter, I think the best example I can give is, let's say you haven't eaten for a long time and you're craving, right?

And then when it's time to eat, finally, you're about to eat your favorite dish, it's gonna taste so much better.

So that's why I believe there is always some sort of sacrifice before the pleasure.

And the more sacrifice you do, Like they say in fighting, the bigger the risk, the bigger is the reward.

Yeah, I feel that with, I've started fasting a little bit in the past couple of years, and there's nothing as amazing as a delicious meal or anything, actually anything, any food when you haven't eaten for several days, it's kind of incredible.

It's not incredible in the simple way of finally I get to eat.

It's you get to truly experience the beauty of what it is to be alive.

Like that little piece of food, you see all the flavors, you feel just the experience of it is ultimately of gratitude of how awesome it is to be alive.

But when you eat many times a day and you're pigging out and you don't get to experience that.

the most accessible things for people, I think, to experience that kind of pairing of hardship to pleasure.

And in my case, it changed my life on a good, good way.

I cannot recommend it to people because everybody is different.

But after my, to fight Michael Bisping, my last fight was against the champion in the heavier weight class that I used to compete at.

So I thought that if I would gain weight, it would increase my performance.

However, I forced myself to eat like 6 times a day.

And it didn't feel right to me because I feel like I was carrying, like a little bit like I was carrying a bag on my shoulder.

And I think it was a bad idea for me because when I did the weigh-in and I went on a scale at 185, I couldn't go back to my initial weight that was 195, that I worked so hard for several months to get there.

So I was 190 pound, but I couldn't get back.

And the morning of the fight, I got sick.

I had like, we didn't know what it was in the beginning because in order to know, to find out what it was, I needed to do what they call a colonoscopy.

And to do that, they give you something that make that empty you.

And I was trying to gain weight, not to lose weight.

So I told myself, I'm going to wait after the fight, whatever it is, because it was pretty bad.

And then after right away, I'm going to make a checkup.

I did a colonoscopy and I got diagnosed with ulcer colitis.

Then I got on very severe medication to get better.

I always trying to look for more natural way to get better.

And I found out about fasting and it really changed my life.

Jason Fong, who's 1 of the world authority of fasting.

And he gave me a program of fasting and it really changed my life.

And right away, what I did is I went in a CAT scan to see the difference, because It was right after my fight with Michael Bisping, and I did the CAT scan.

So I had my muscle mass, bone density, fat percentage, water retention.

It can show you which arm has more muscle than the other.

So I started doing time-restricted eating, 16-8, but right away when I started, I did 3 days water fast.

And the doctor, Jason Fung, said because I like to train during those days, I consume Himalayan salt to make sure, because when you sweat, there's a lot of minerals to make sure you don't deplete your mineral.

And when I compared the 2 results in the CAT scan, I found out my biggest concern was to lose muscle mass.

I found out that I did not lose muscle mass.

Instead of losing it, it increased a little bit.

Even though my weight on the scale was lighter, I kept the same muscle mass, even increases a little bit.

My water retention is the biggest thing that decrease.

So my inflammation and my fat percentage.

So basically by looking at the data, I found out that by eating so much, trying to gain weight to fight my cold, I only increases my water retention, which is not good because it's like dead weight and inflammation on you.

So what was the actual process of fasting?

You said 16, 8, time restricted, so intermittent fasting, but You also mentioned the 3 day Waterfest.

And you also said training during the 3 day.

For me, I do it, everybody's different, but for me, I do it after New Year's because during the holidays, that's when I eat bad foods and I drink.

I see it more like a cleansing, you know, like a detox, so to speak.

Yes, I do it after the New Year's, right before the summer, cut for the beach.

After the summer, because of the summer, I've been partying a little bit sometime, let myself go.

And I've tried, the doctor for me says to me, he said, George, everybody's different because I'm a very active person and everybody has a different genetic.

So for me, I feel that 3 days is the sweet spot because I still train during those 3 days.

The first day, the first 2 days, I don't change nothing.

I train regularly on my regular schedule.

However, on the third day, I modify a little bit.

And I've tried before, because when I say 3 days is my sweet spot, I've tried to go up to 5 days.

But the problem is after my third days, I found out that I had a big problem sleeping.

They call that the hunter-gatherer mode, you know, like your brain, I mean, it's amazing.

Your creativity is at its peak, but you cannot sleep very well.

And sleeping, for me, I think it's very important.

It's the 4 or 5 days when you start, see, sleep is not important for me.

So it's very interesting the places your mind goes after a few days, you're right.

But I mean, what does it do to your mind?

In terms of training, does it, do you find that it helps you focus and think?

I mean, you're 1 of the great strategic thinkers in terms of martial arts.

Does it help with strategizing and all that?

I wish I would have, I really wish people ask me, would you have done it during the time that you competed?

I think we live in a society that we're bombarded by publicity.

And fasting, nobody makes money with it because there's nothing to sell, you know?

I think that's why a lot of people have not heard about it.

And even for myself, if someone would have talked to me about the benefits of fasting when I was training before I got sick, I would probably have ignored him because it's hard to believe.

It's going to help your mind and you're going to gain muscle potentially.

And perhaps people have talked to me about it, but it went in 1 of my hair and got out from the other side, you know.

And I was diagnosed with ulcer colitis and it helps me get rid of all my symptoms.

What I do is, I know a lot of people have ulcer colitis and for me, I cannot recommend it to other people because everybody is different, but for me, I made a lot of research of how people from ulcerative colitis got better.

And I found out that a lot of people that got that condition get better in a natural way through fasting, eating fermented food, collagen, and like bone broth and stuff for their gut.

And it made a huge difference in my life.

I just wish I would have known that before.

So do you have a specific diet wise stuff you like?

So, you know, I've recently, another ridiculous sounding thing, but it makes me feel really good is very low carbs.

So, you know, keto, even carnivore, it sounds ridiculous.

It doesn't make any sense, but it makes me feel really good even for performance.

Yeah, well, he, there's, I'll tell you where, cause I was doing it before he was doing it, is there's, it was popular in the endurance athlete community where it was fat adapted athletes.

It was people who, insane people who run 50 miles, 100 miles, they figured out that they could fuel their body with fat.

They can go to fat as the source of energy as opposed to carbs.

So I remember hoping that I'll be able to learn how to run 50 miles and so on.

I've never done more than 22, but I just remember switching away from carbs and feeling really liberated.

Like I wasn't thinking about food as much.

I'm able to eat once a day and feel really good.

I mean, I think everybody's body is different but I think carbs make me lazy.

Yeah, it's the crash, but also just psychologically something, it forces me to also think about food too much.

Like it starts becoming, you know, our, just like you said, our society is so much about food.

There's so many, so much advertisement and so much of our social life is about food.

And so it's very easy to live life, like live day to day thinking, when is the next meal?

And if you're not careful, that's gonna get in the way of you doing cool shit for like liberating yourself and thinking like, what am I actually passionate about in this life?

Like creating and forgetting to eat, those kinds of things, and still being able to fuel your body.

It's been fascinating to figure out like later in life that carbs aren't necessary to function well.

It makes me think like we don't know anything about nutrition.

You know, personally, I don't think I could have a diet without carbs.

However, If you talk about diet, I don't have a specific diet, but recently, what I'm trying to do is the days that I do not work out, I only eat once.

But the rest of the thing, I let myself loose because I don't think I would be happy if I don't give myself the right to eat.

For me personally, I love to eat so much, next.

It's very interesting because A few years ago, I went to Africa in Masai Mara.

And you should see, they're very beautiful people, shredded like...

But I mean, think about the Eskimos also, they're like, most of their diet is on fish, right?

So I believe it can be done, you know, like I believe it can be done like an exclusive carnivore diet.

And I, I think I'm going to try it pretty soon just to have the experience, you know, to see how

Be careful bringing it up because he'll convince you to forever switch to carnivore, definitely.

I mean, but just like you, I think he loves food.

It was funny because we went to an Italian restaurant together and I still only eat meat.

I like saying no to food that is delicious.

But part of the problem is that I don't know how to moderate.

No, it's when I have an opportunity, I do it.

I don't have any, I'm an extremist person, Lex.

When I have a chance, I like, I just eat.

I go to much And that's what I like about my life.

You know, that's what I like about fasting.

Because probably if I would not have discovered fasting, eating chocolate would give me cramps and all sorts of problems.

Because People on ulcer colitis, normally they cannot eat chocolate, they cannot drink alcohol.

But I believe because I'm fasting, that's the reason why I'm medication-free.

I can eat whatever I want, whenever I want, But I have to do that fasting, you know?

And now it became to a point that it's no longer hard for me.

Some of my friends think I'm insane, you know?

But I tell them, when you get used to it, it becomes like an habit.

And I know that Antar Gata, like our ancestor, did not eat 3 times a day.

They ate when they could, and when they eat, they feed themselves as much as they can until the next time, because they didn't know when they could eat again.

So I think that's how we're built, to have this similar lifestyle.

If we could take a step back to the discussion about fear a little bit.

So Mike Tyson talks about this process of him walking to the ring.

He sounds similar to you in many ways of the anxiety and the fear that he experiences.

And he has this sort of story that he tells about walking to the ring and being supremely afraid.

But as he walks and gets closer and steps in, he finds the confidence and becomes supremely confident.

Do you go through a similar process of finding the confidence?

So what I do is, because I'm not afraid to admit that I'm afraid.

And In the beginning of my career, I really thought, I asked myself, because I was very good in Mixed Martial Arts, but I really thought I wasn't made for this because the idea of fighting didn't make me happy.

It's something like I was forced to do in order to keep that lifestyle that I have and achieve my goal, perhaps 1 day to make enough money to retire and you know, That was my dream.

But when I was looking around the gym where I was training, most of my training partners, they were happy.

And sometime I corner a lot of guys and they're happy and they are in the locker room.

Some perhaps does, but if you see me in the locker room like when I get like my last fight with Michael Bisping just to give you an example in my last fight with Michael Bisping because it's fresh it's the 1 that is the most recent and but it's always the same thing my last fight in Bisping I get in the locker room I had like 3 guys that I trained with.

Micky Gahl, Eamon Zahabi, and Joseph Duffy.

It was like, my locker room was basically cursed.

You know, when you're in a locker room and people from your locker room leave for a fight and then they come back, it's kind of a momentum, you know, you shake and, yeah, good job, now it's

You know, it's kind of a team, brotherhood sort of thing.

So the atmosphere in my locker room was pretty bad.

And before every fight, I asked myself always, shit, what the hell I'm doing here?

However, I'm putting on a mask, like I'm acting.

Because if I don't do that, it will reflect on my coaches.

And if the confidence of my coaches is affected, it will reflect on me.

I need to make them believe that I'm excited to be there and I'm happy to be there.

So this sort of play starts when I first step in the locker room, Even though I feel completely different, but that's how I play it.

Normally, the fight day, I never feel 100%.

My highs are hitching because I don't sleep enough the few nights before because I'm constantly rehearsing scenarios that might happen in the fight.

So mentally, it's not that I'm not on top.

I keep it to myself and I'm lying to everybody around me.

Ferraz, Jonathan, I heard they know, Freddie Rose, they've been with me for a long time, so they know what's going on, but at least I'm lying to them.

And seeing all my training partners, like, very disappointed because they lost their fight, some were badly hurt as well.

So, and I remember I get, I get, I get, I started to warm up and everything.

And as you start to warm up, you become a different person.

Because, you know, we know that certain posture in yoga can affect your mental state.

But I would say it's a little bit the same thing in fighting.

You know, like when you start hitting the pads, your muscle memory, your instincts comes back and you remember that you're good at this, you know, and your confidence start to grow.

And as seeing your trainers holding the pad and repeating your moves, it makes you also remember all the sacrifice you have done through your training camp and confidence comes from how you prepared yourself.

And even if you're afraid, you can be confident at the same time.

Being afraid and being confident is 2 different things.

And before every fight, just right before I walk in, it's when I'm scared, I go in the bathroom and I look at myself in the mirror.

I used to have a bandana and a gi, but now I didn't have this for my last fight because of the new rebug deal they had.

But I did the same rehearsal that I always do.

I look at myself in the mirror and I start to compliment myself.

Like, even if I don't believe it, I'm starting to try to believe it as I am.

I'm finding all the reasons why I'm going to win the fight.

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Georges St-Pierre: The Science of Fighting | Lex Fridman Podcast #179