Sarma Melngailis is a chef and restauranteur who was the subject of the Netflix documentary Bad Vegan: Fame, Fraud, Fugitives. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
Sarma's Twitter: https://twitter.com/sarma
Sarma's Instagram: https://instagram.com/sarmamelngailis
Sarma's Website: https://sarmaraw.com
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (book): https://amzn.to/3G9pMvs
Party of One (book): https://amzn.to/3NtcH2n
Beautiful Ruins (book): https://amzn.to/38Cfgkc
Darkness Visible (book): https://amzn.to/3tdxoYL
Projections (book): https://amzn.to/38DrRDJ
Confessions of a Sociopath (book): https://amzn.to/3sM39Ys
On Love (book): https://amzn.to/3sS3Orj
Dear Reader (book): https://amzn.to/39JPE4M

PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
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Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41

OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
1:30 - Childhood
6:33 - Films
17:03 - Gifts
26:07 - Favorite food creations
32:18 - Leon: The Pitbull
44:26 - Bad Vegan
56:27 - Abusive relationship
1:01:10 - Remorse for employees
1:07:05 - Sociopathy
1:17:30 - How Sarma met Anthony Strangis
1:39:29 - Retrospection
1:52:11 - Johnny Depp and Amber Heard
2:00:04 - Is Anthony Strangis a sociopath?
2:04:11 - What Bad Vegan got wrong
2:21:26 - Darkest personal discovery
2:32:08 - Road trip from hell
2:39:23 - Wild stories
2:48:20 - Prison
2:58:00 - Ghislaine Maxwell
3:13:31 - Running restaurants
3:27:13 - Last meal
3:31:36 - Relationships
3:40:48 - Advice for young people
3:46:03 - Regrets
3:49:48 - Mortality
4:05:51 - Love

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He made me think that everything was going to be reversed and okay, and anybody that money was borrowed from, they would get it back, maybe tenfold.

And so it was this weird situation of having 1 foot in his reality and potentially believing the things he was saying, or even over time, wanting to believe them more and more because the alternative was so, the alternative was worse.

The alternative was like, was increasingly a bigger and bigger nightmare.

The following is a conversation with Sarma Melengalas, a chef and restaurateur who was the subject of the Netflix documentary, Bad Vegan, Fame, Fraud, and Fugitives, that documents the rise and fall of her vegan raw food restaurants in New York City that ended in what she called a road trip from hell, being arrested in Tennessee, her pleading guilty for stealing over 2000000 dollars, and serving 4 months at Rikers Island Jail.

Salma disputes the veracity of the documentary and its conclusions, saying that she was misrepresented.

So I wanted to talk to her to get the full story and to seek understanding of who she is as a human being, the good and the bad.

To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description.

And now, dear friends, here's Salma Melengales.

a lot of reading when you were growing up and you mentioned Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S Thompson.

So from the reading you've done in those early days, how did you see the world?

Was it to you a beautiful place or a cruel place?

You were focused on family, just basic day-to-day life?

I had an awareness of not fitting in, but I think back then it felt like something was wrong versus some people are just that way.

And speaking of books, I read a book called Party of 1 by a woman named Anneli Rufus that somebody gave me and suggested I read and that helped a lot.

That was 1 book that made me feel like, it made me understand things from the past that I hadn't understood before, specifically kind of feeling out of place even among my family, which is where you're not supposed to feel out of place.

Yeah, I'm not sure where I saw it, but I think you mentioned that you were a bit of a loner.

And I also think I saw somewhere pictures of you with green hair in high school and a wild haircut.

It's strange because I was kind of a loner.

So it'd be strange to do something that calls so much attention to yourself.

Because back then, I mean, I grew up in a suburb of Boston in Newton.

And anybody that was there around that time, probably if you said, you know, that girl with green hair, blue hair, it was blue most of the time, they would remember like seeing me walking down the street because it stood out like crazy, especially back then.

Now it wouldn't stand out so much, but back then it really stood out.

So I was trying to think about why I did that when I was kind of shy and on the 1 hand wouldn't want to bring attention to myself, but I did something that did.

And it wasn't, my family, to their credit, they were fine with it, so It wasn't a rebellion against them or anything like that.

So, he was cool with your green hair when you're a rebellion.

He was fine with the green hair, but I think in some ways maybe they had to be fine with it because I didn't cause problems otherwise and I got good grades in school.

I was a very low maintenance child I think.

He has a lot of just brilliant quotes, a lot of brilliant lines.

So 1 of the ones I love is, "'Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body But rather just skidding broadside in a cloud of smoke Thoroughly used up Totally worn out and loudly proclaiming.

What a ride What do you think about that?

Somewhere, I heard recently what he consumed in a day.

It's funny, when I was in college, there were always really interesting people coming through, speakers and whatnot, and I tended to not go to events and whatnot.

But in the 4 years I was there, I mean, really interesting people came through and gave talks, you know, I don't know, just a lot of famous people.

Thompson came to speak and that was the only 1 I attended.

That was the only interesting person who came to speak on the campus that I attended was Hunter S.

And he had a glass of whatever it was, whiskey.

And I don't remember a whole lot about it, but it was entertaining.

And yeah, I mean, later in his life, he started making less and less sense, but he was still somehow like embodying the crazy that he represented throughout his life, the boldness, the fearlessness, the wildness, all that kind of stuff.

And we'll talk about Johnny Depp a little bit too.

Obviously Johnny Depp played him or he starred in Fear and Loathing and they hung out together and it just seemed to somehow like the universe rhymes in these 2 individuals.

They're both madmen and in different kind of ways.

So you also told me that Leon the Professional is 1 of your favorite films.

It's also the reason you named your dog Leon.

So what do you find beautiful and powerful about this film?

I've watched it a bunch of times, but it's been a while since I've watched it.

So for people who haven't watched it, there's a guy named Leon played by Jean Reno.

There's a young girl, I think, I don't know,

And she's abused, She has a really hard life.

And then she finds protection under this fellow, Leon, who also happens to be a professional assassin.

And he is also kind of a Forrest Gump type character.

He almost, he seems to be like the immature 1 or like rather the 1 who's young and she seems to have a wisdom far beyond her age because of the hard life she had to live through.

And then they're here huddling together from the cruelty of the world in finding connection.

Yeah, I think it's 1 of those films where there's so many interesting things about it, but I'm sure 1 of them is just the contradiction of him being a caring person and reluctant to get attached to her.

You know, he tries to, I think he knows he's, he is very reluctant to get attached to her in the beginning.

And so you see all of his humanity, but yet he's also an assassin that kills people.

And I think probably a psychoanalyst would have a field day with why I like that movie so much.

But There's something I think about she, even in the brief part that depicts her in the beginning, it seems clear that she's sort of out of place in her family.

And then, yeah, there's all kinds of interesting things about their relationship along the way.

What I like about that movie, and I had to think about it recently because I've read stuff about it that bothered me, or it bothered me the fact that I haven't really thought about it before.

For people who haven't watched the movie, so here's a young underage girl who kind of comes onto him.

First of all, I think she actually just doesn't know what like familial love is.

So this is the only way she knows how to express love.

And 2 is, you know, a lot of bad people in this world would take advantage of that, right?

And the fact that she finally met a human being who doesn't and is just there to protect her.

That's a real sort of, I don't know, a powerful statement of what it means to be sort of like a father figure, I suppose, a protector.

So that to me, I love the idea of being sort of the protector, that there's something like, something worthwhile in this world to protect amidst all the cruelty that's all around.

So that's a beautiful kind of, you're basically saving this young human's, or you're repairing this young human's path to love, to real love in life.

Because that idea of love was destroyed for her.

Just family, everything is, everything is, sort of everything around her is broken and he's kind of repairing it by reestablishing what that kind of love can be.

Well, There's also just the simplicity of the film, just from a cinematic perspective, is beautiful.

The music, the way it looks, the minimalism.

It was over the top, and also the bad guy, the bad cop, played by Gary Oldman.

I think he was listening to Beethoven or something like that.

He'd taken some pills and drugs of some kind.

There was a part of the orchestra, the violence was part of some kind of musical creation.

Yeah, it's interesting because I turn away from violence or films usually that have violence or TV or anything that has that sort of element to it, except in certain cases where...

That's a more simple kind of love, but also with the violence that is beautiful, I suppose you could say.

Yeah, and my favorite scene is the 1 with Patricia Arquette and James Gandolfini.

Oh yeah, where she, there's a shotgun involved.

And then- It actually makes me cry every time I see it, for some reason.

So for people who haven't seen the film, I think he's actually, I think he's hitting her or like there's blood and violence and so on because he's resisting being murdered.

And then he throws her into the glass, the shower thing, and she's all cut up and beat up.

Yeah, there's just so much passion in it.

She knows she's gonna, or in that moment, she knows or thinks she knows that she's gonna die anyway.

Well, and also she's, you know, she loves Clarence.

Yeah, the love comes through through that violence.

Her fella in that film has the same kind of thing when he visits-

And he's also fearless in that interaction saying, she's now mine.

And that happy ending, spoiler alert in a way.

That's what I like about it too, because I feel like some movies should come with, I don't wanna watch a movie if it's gonna be devastating, usually unless it's worthwhile in some other way, but I'm kind of sensitive and I don't want, I don't like movies that have a terrible ending.

You know, I mean, there's a book I read because it got so many good reviews, and the very last scene, the woman steps in front of a train and it was like so I'm partial to movies with happy endings.

True Romance does have 1 of the, I mean, it's probably unhealthy.

No, where she just kind of looks at Clarence and her son and child or whatever.

And she's saying, you're so cool, you're so cool.

I just felt that movie has so much in it.

Cause it's, you know, it's funny and there's so many, so many good actors in that film.

And Brad Pitt plays in that film, a pivotal role of Pothead on couch.

Yeah, they're all so good and funny and Michael Rapaport and even Val Kilmer.

People don't realize he's in the movie because he doesn't look like himself.

You know when there's like the Elvis sitting there talking to him in the end.

Yeah, you don't notice it unless you somehow either are very perceptive or noticed it in the credits.

And Quentin Tarantino wrote the film, I think.

Directed by Tony Scott and the music is beautiful too.

And Christopher Walken and Dennis Hopper.

Dennis Hopper plays Clarence's dad and they have this very racist sounding scene, but the big important aspect of that scene is it's a father willing to die to protect the son.

I mean, it's so much beautiful violence in

And she's a prostitute or not really, part-time, short time.

My third favorite film has no violence whatsoever.

It's I forget the author, it's a book and I read the book much later, but it's Helena Bonham Carter and Daniel Day-Lewis is in it and Julian Sands.

Daniel Day-Lewis is a fascinating character.

He's amazing in this film because he plays, he's very funny.

He sort of plays a, he's a comical character, which is unlike most of what he does, I think.

I don't watch a ton of movies, so, but yeah, he plays, his role is funny.

Well, that's a, that's a heck of a top 3 You you brought me some books some bread and books.

Yeah, some Russian bread Russian inspired bread

Yeah, I mean it's Latvian, but it's similar to

similar to what's made in Russia and it's made at a Russian bakery

So you got me some books, beautiful ruins.

Yeah, and if you never read them, who cares?

People give you books and then you feel like you just, you sort of feel like

you just- I see this as, we'll talk about this.

I don't feel the need to satisfy people's happiness.

Okay, so, but It could also be an opportunity to experience something I never otherwise would have.

It's a book that made me laugh and cry, and it's just a happy story.

And for some reason, I don't know exactly why, but for some reason, when you asked me to come, it just, I thought, oh, I'm gonna bring a copy of that book.

That's, you just felt, it came, a voice told you.

A Memoir of Madness, compelling, harrowing, a vivid portrait of a debilitating disorder that offers the solace of shared experience in New York Times.

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Sarma Melngailis: Bad Vegan, Fraud, Prison, and Sociopathy | Lex Fridman Podcast #288