- Blue Origin is developing a lunar lander called the Mark I, which can take 3,000 kilograms to the surface of the moon and is fueled with liquid hydrogen.
- They are also developing solar-powered cryo-coolers to make hydrogen a storable propellant for deep space missions.
- The Mark II lander, part of NASA's Artemis program, is designed to be reusable and can land on the moon in a single-stage configuration.
- Blue Origin is working on using lunar resources like regolith to manufacture commodities and solar cells on the moon.
- They are also investigating extracting oxygen from regolith and finding ice in the permanently shadowed craters on the moon.
- Jeff Bezos believes it is unlikely he will step foot on the moon or Mars in his lifetime, as these missions will likely be done by professional astronauts.
- Automation will play a significant role in setting up factories and performing tasks on the moon.

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Jeff Bezos is the founder of Amazon and Blue Origin.

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There's a lot going on there and you haven't really talked about it much.

So in addition to the Artemis program with NASA, Blue is doing its own lander program.

There's a sexy picture on Instagram with 1 of them.

The picture is me with Bill Nelson, the NASA administrator.

Just to clarify, the lander is the sexy thing about this.

Yes, the Mark I lander is designed to take 3,000 kilograms to the surface of the moon in a cargo, expendable cargo.

It's an expendable lander, lands on the moon, stays there, take 3,000 kilograms to the surface.

It can be launched on a single New Glenn flight, which is very important.

So it's a relatively simple architecture, just like the human landing system lander that called the Mark II.

Mark I is also fueled with liquid hydrogen, and which is for high energy missions like landing on the surface of the moon, the high specific impulse of hydrogen is a very big advantage.

The disadvantage of hydrogen has always been that it's such a deep cryogen, it's not storable.

So it's constantly boiling off and you're losing propellant because it's boiling off.

And so what we're doing as part of our lunar program is developing solar-powered cryo-coolers that can actually make hydrogen a storable propellant for deep space.

It's a game changer for any high-energy mission.

So to the moon, but to the outer planets, to Mars, everywhere.

So the idea with both Mark I and Mark II is the New Glenn can carry it from the surface of Earth to the surface of the Moon.

The lunar lander we're developing for NASA, the Mark 2 lander, that's part of the Artemis program.

They call it the sustaining lander program.

So that lander is designed to be reusable.

It can land on the surface of the Moon in a single-stage configuration and then take off.

So the whole, you know, if you look at the Apollo program, The lunar lander in Apollo was really 2 stages.

It would land on the surface and then it would leave the descent stage on the surface of the moon and only the ascent stage would go back up into lunar orbit where it would rendezvous with the command module.

Here what we're doing is we have a single stage lunar lander that carries down enough propellant so that it can bring the whole thing back up so that it can be reused over and over.

And the point of doing that of course is to reduce cost so that you can make lunar missions more affordable over time.

Which is, that's 1 of NASA's big objectives, because this time, the whole point of Artemis is go back to the moon, but this time to stay.

So, you know, back in the Apollo program, we went to the moon 6 times and then ended the program, and it really was too expensive to continue.

And so there's a few questions there, but 1 is how do you stay on the moon?

Like a sustaining life where a few folks can stay there for prolonged periods of time.

Well, 1 of the things we're working on is using lunar resources like lunar regolith to manufacture commodities and even solar cells on the surface of the moon.

We've already built a solar cell that is completely made from lunar regolith simulant and this solar cell is only about 7% power efficient, so it's very inefficient compared to the more advanced solar cells that we make here on Earth.

But if you can figure out how to make a practical solar cell factory that you can land on the surface of the moon, and then the raw material for those solar cells is simply lunar regolith, then you can just continue to churn out solar cells on the surface of the moon, have lots of power on the surface of the moon, that will make it easier for people to live on the moon.

Similarly, we're working on extracting oxygen from lunar regolith.

So lunar regolith by weight has a lot of oxygen in it.

It's bound very tightly as oxides with other elements.

And so you have to separate the oxygen, which is very energy intensive.

So that also could work together with the solar cells.

But if you can, and then ultimately, we may be able to find practical quantities of ice in the permanently shadowed craters on the poles of the moon.

And we know there is ice water in those, or water ice in those craters.

And we know that we can break that down with electrolysis into hydrogen and oxygen.

And then you'd not only have oxygen, but you'd also have a very good, high efficiency propellant fuel in hydrogen.

So there's a lot we can do to make the moon more sustainable over time, but the very first step, the kind of gate that all of that has to go through is we need to be able to land cargo and humans on the surface of the moon at an acceptable cost.

To fast forward a little bit, is there any chance Jeff Bezos steps foot on the moon and on Mars?

I think it's probably something that gets done by future generations by the time it gets to me.

I think in my lifetime, that's probably gonna be done by professional astronauts.

Sadly, I would love to sign up for that mission.

You know, give me a finding shot here, maybe.

But I think if we are placing reasonable bets on such a thing in my lifetime, that will continue to be done by professional astronauts.

Yeah, so these are risky, difficult missions.

And probably missions that require a lot of training.

You know, you are going there for a very specific purpose to do something.

We're gonna be able to do a lot on the moon too with automation.

So, you know, in terms of setting up these factories and doing all that, we're sophisticated enough now with automation that we probably don't need humans to tend those factories and machines.

So, there's a lot that's gonna be done in both modes.


Speaker 0: You've mentioned the lunar program. Let me ask you about that. Yeah. There's a lot going on there and you haven't really talked about it much. So in addition to the Artemis program with NASA, Blue is doing its own lander program.

Can you describe it? There's a sexy picture on Instagram with 1 of them. Is it the MK1, I guess?

Speaker 1: Yeah, the Mark I. The picture is me with Bill Nelson, the NASA administrator.

Speaker 0: Just to clarify, the lander is the sexy thing about this. I just really wanna clarify that.

Speaker 1: I know it's not me. I know it was either the lander or Bill. Okay. I love Bill, but

Speaker 0: yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: Thank you for clarifying. Yes, the Mark I lander is designed to take 3,000 kilograms to the surface of the moon in a cargo, expendable cargo. It's an expendable lander, lands on the moon, stays there, take 3,000 kilograms to the surface. It can be launched on a single New Glenn flight, which is very important. So it's a relatively simple architecture, just like the human landing system lander that called the Mark II.

Mark I is also fueled with liquid hydrogen, and which is for high energy missions like landing on the surface of the moon, the high specific impulse of hydrogen is a very big advantage. The disadvantage of hydrogen has always been that it's such a deep cryogen, it's not storable. So it's constantly boiling off and you're losing propellant because it's boiling off. And so what we're doing as part of our lunar program is developing solar-powered cryo-coolers that can actually make hydrogen a storable propellant for deep space. And that's a real game changer.

It's a game changer for any high-energy mission. So to the moon, but to the outer planets, to Mars, everywhere.

Speaker 0: So the idea with both Mark I and Mark II is the New Glenn can carry it from the surface of Earth to the surface of the Moon.

Speaker 1: Exactly. So the Mark I is expendable. The lunar lander we're developing for NASA, the Mark 2 lander, that's part of the Artemis program. They call it the sustaining lander program. So that lander is designed to be reusable.

It can land on the surface of the Moon in a single-stage configuration and then take off. So the whole, you know, if you look at the Apollo program, The lunar lander in Apollo was really 2 stages. It would land on the surface and then it would leave the descent stage on the surface of the moon and only the ascent stage would go back up into lunar orbit where it would rendezvous with the command module. Here what we're doing is we have a single stage lunar lander that carries down enough propellant so that it can bring the whole thing back up so that it can be reused over and over. And the point of doing that of course is to reduce cost so that you can make lunar missions more affordable over time.

Which is, that's 1 of NASA's big objectives, because this time, the whole point of Artemis is go back to the moon, but this time to stay. So, you know, back in the Apollo program, we went to the moon 6 times and then ended the program, and it really was too expensive to continue.

Speaker 0: And so there's a few questions there, but 1 is how do you stay on the moon? What ideas do you have about Yeah. Like a sustaining life where a few folks can stay there for prolonged periods of time.

Speaker 1: Well, 1 of the things we're working on is using lunar resources like lunar regolith to manufacture commodities and even solar cells on the surface of the moon. We've already built a solar cell that is completely made from lunar regolith simulant and this solar cell is only about 7% power efficient, so it's very inefficient compared to the more advanced solar cells that we make here on Earth. But if you can figure out how to make a practical solar cell factory that you can land on the surface of the moon, and then the raw material for those solar cells is simply lunar regolith, then you can just continue to churn out solar cells on the surface of the moon, have lots of power on the surface of the moon, that will make it easier for people to live on the moon. Similarly, we're working on extracting oxygen from lunar regolith. So lunar regolith by weight has a lot of oxygen in it.

It's bound very tightly as oxides with other elements. And so you have to separate the oxygen, which is very energy intensive. So that also could work together with the solar cells. But if you can, and then ultimately, we may be able to find practical quantities of ice in the permanently shadowed craters on the poles of the moon. And we know there is ice water in those, or water ice in those craters.

And we know that we can break that down with electrolysis into hydrogen and oxygen. And then you'd not only have oxygen, but you'd also have a very good, high efficiency propellant fuel in hydrogen. So there's a lot we can do to make the moon more sustainable over time, but the very first step, the kind of gate that all of that has to go through is we need to be able to land cargo and humans on the surface of the moon at an acceptable cost.

Speaker 0: To fast forward a little bit, is there any chance Jeff Bezos steps foot on the moon and on Mars? 1 or the other or both?

Speaker 1: It's very unlikely. I think it's probably something that gets done by future generations by the time it gets to me. I think in my lifetime, that's probably gonna be done by professional astronauts. Sadly, I would love to sign up for that mission. So don't count me out yet, Lex.

You know, give me a finding shot here, maybe. But I think if we are placing reasonable bets on such a thing in my lifetime, that will continue to be done by professional astronauts.

Speaker 0: Yeah, so these are risky, difficult missions.

Speaker 1: And probably missions that require a lot of training. You know, you are going there for a very specific purpose to do something. We're gonna be able to do a lot on the moon too with automation. So, you know, in terms of setting up these factories and doing all that, we're sophisticated enough now with automation that we probably don't need humans to tend those factories and machines. So, there's a lot that's gonna be done in both modes.

Speaker 0: You

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Jeff Bezos on going back to the Moon | Lex Fridman Podcast Clips