Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff4fRgnuFgQ
Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
- Numerai: https://numer.ai/lex
- Shopify: https://shopify.com/lex to get $1 per month trial
- BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off

GUEST BIO:
Mark Zuckerberg is CEO of Meta.

PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41

SOCIAL:
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman
- Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman
- Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman
- Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

I have to ask, Apple just announced a mixed reality headset called Vision Pro for $3, 500 available in early 2024.

Well, I saw the materials when they launched.

I haven't gotten a chance to play with it yet, so kind of take everything with a grain of salt.

I mean, first, You know, I do think that this is a certain level of validation for the category, right?

Where, you know, we were the primary folks out there before saying, hey, I think that this, you know, virtual reality, augmented reality, mixed reality, this is going to be a big part of the next computing platform.

I think having Apple come in and share that vision will make a lot of people who are fans of their products really consider that.

And then, you know, of course, the $3, 500 price, you know, on the 1 hand, I get it for with all the stuff that they're trying to pack in there.

On the other hand, a lot of people aren't going to find that to be affordable.

So I think that there's a chance that that them coming in actually increases demand for the overall space and that Quest 3 is actually the primary beneficiary of that because a lot of the people who might say, hey, you know, this I like I'm going to give another consideration to this or, you know, now I understand maybe what mixed reality is more and in quest 3 is the best 1 on the market that I can that I can afford and it's great also, right?

It's I think that that's and you know, in our own way, I think we're in there a lot of features that we have where we're leading on.

So I think that that's that I think is going to be a very that could be quite good.

And then obviously over time, the companies are just focused on somewhat different things.

Apple has always, I think, focused on building really kind of high-end things, whereas our focus has been on...

We want to build things that are accessible to a wider number of people.

We've sold tens of millions of Quest devices.

My understanding just based on rumors, I don't have any special knowledge on this, is that Apple is building about 1 million of their device, right?

So just in terms of what you kind of expect in terms of sales numbers, I just think that this is, I mean, Quest is going to be the primary thing that people in the market will continue using for the foreseeable future.

And then obviously over the long term, it's up to the companies to see how well we each executed the different things that we're doing.

But we kind of come at it from different places.

We're very focused on social interaction, communication, being more active, right?

So there's fitness, there's gaming, there are those things.

You know, whereas I think a lot of the use cases that you saw in Apple's launch material were more around, people sitting, people looking at screens, which are great.

I think that you will replace your laptop over time with a headset.

But I think in terms of kind of how the different use cases that the companies are going after.

They're a bit different for where we are right now.

Yeah, so gaming wasn't a big part of the presentation, which is interesting.

It feels like mixed reality gaming's such a big part of that.

It was interesting to see it missing in the presentation.

Well, I mean, look, there are certain design trade-offs in this where, you know, they made this point about not wanting to have controllers, which on the 1 hand, there's a certain elegance about just being able to navigate the system with eye gaze and hand tracking.

And by the way, you'll be able to just navigate Quest with your hands too, if that's what you want.

Yeah, 1 of the things I should mention is that the capability from the cameras with computer vision to detect certain aspects of the hand, allowing you to have a controller that doesn't have that ring thing.

Yeah, the hand tracking in Quest 3 and the controller tracking is a big step up from the last generation.

And 1 of the demos that we have is basically an MR experience teaching you how to play piano where it basically highlights the notes that you need to play and it's like just all its hands.

But I think if you care about gaming, having a controller allows you to have a more tactile feel and allows you to capture fine motor movement much more precisely than what you can do with hands without something that you're touching.

So again, I think there are certain questions which are just around what use cases are you optimizing for.

I think if you want to play games, then I think that you want to design the system in a different way.

And we're more focused on social experiences, entertainment experiences.

Whereas if what you want is to make sure that the text that you read on a screen is as crisp as possible, then you need to make the design and cost trade-offs that they made that lead you to making a $3, 500 device.

So I think that there is a use case for that for sure, but I just think that The company is, we've basically made different design trade-offs to get to the use cases that we're trying to serve.

There's a lot of other stuff I'd love to talk to you about, about the metaverse, especially the Kodak Avatar, which I've gotten to experience a lot of different variations of recently that I'm really, really excited about.

Yeah, I'm excited to talk about that too.

I'll have to wait a little bit because, well, I think there's a lot more to show off in that regard.


Speaker 0: I have to ask, Apple just announced a mixed reality headset called Vision Pro for $3, 500 available in early 2024. What do you think about this headset?

Speaker 1: Well, I saw the materials when they launched. I haven't gotten a chance to play with it yet, so kind of take everything with a grain of salt. But a few high-level thoughts. I mean, first, You know, I do think that this is a certain level of validation for the category, right? Where, you know, we were the primary folks out there before saying, hey, I think that this, you know, virtual reality, augmented reality, mixed reality, this is going to be a big part of the next computing platform.

I think having Apple come in and share that vision will make a lot of people who are fans of their products really consider that. And then, you know, of course, the $3, 500 price, you know, on the 1 hand, I get it for with all the stuff that they're trying to pack in there. On the other hand, a lot of people aren't going to find that to be affordable. So I think that there's a chance that that them coming in actually increases demand for the overall space and that Quest 3 is actually the primary beneficiary of that because a lot of the people who might say, hey, you know, this I like I'm going to give another consideration to this or, you know, now I understand maybe what mixed reality is more and in quest 3 is the best 1 on the market that I can that I can afford and it's great also, right? It's I think that that's and you know, in our own way, I think we're in there a lot of features that we have where we're leading on.

So I think that that's that I think is going to be a very that could be quite good. And then obviously over time, the companies are just focused on somewhat different things. Apple has always, I think, focused on building really kind of high-end things, whereas our focus has been on... We have a more democratic ethos. We want to build things that are accessible to a wider number of people.

We've sold tens of millions of Quest devices. My understanding just based on rumors, I don't have any special knowledge on this, is that Apple is building about 1 million of their device, right? So just in terms of what you kind of expect in terms of sales numbers, I just think that this is, I mean, Quest is going to be the primary thing that people in the market will continue using for the foreseeable future. And then obviously over the long term, it's up to the companies to see how well we each executed the different things that we're doing. But we kind of come at it from different places.

We're very focused on social interaction, communication, being more active, right? So there's fitness, there's gaming, there are those things. You know, whereas I think a lot of the use cases that you saw in Apple's launch material were more around, people sitting, people looking at screens, which are great. I think that you will replace your laptop over time with a headset. But I think in terms of kind of how the different use cases that the companies are going after.

They're a bit different for where we are right now.

Speaker 0: Yeah, so gaming wasn't a big part of the presentation, which is interesting. It feels like mixed reality gaming's such a big part of that. It was interesting to see it missing in the presentation.

Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look, there are certain design trade-offs in this where, you know, they made this point about not wanting to have controllers, which on the 1 hand, there's a certain elegance about just being able to navigate the system with eye gaze and hand tracking. And by the way, you'll be able to just navigate Quest with your hands too, if that's what you want.

Speaker 0: Yeah, 1 of the things I should mention is that the capability from the cameras with computer vision to detect certain aspects of the hand, allowing you to have a controller that doesn't have that ring thing.

Speaker 1: Yeah, the hand tracking in Quest 3 and the controller tracking is a big step up from the last generation. And 1 of the demos that we have is basically an MR experience teaching you how to play piano where it basically highlights the notes that you need to play and it's like just all its hands. It's no controllers. But I think if you care about gaming, having a controller allows you to have a more tactile feel and allows you to capture fine motor movement much more precisely than what you can do with hands without something that you're touching. So again, I think there are certain questions which are just around what use cases are you optimizing for.

I think if you want to play games, then I think that you want to design the system in a different way. And we're more focused on social experiences, entertainment experiences. Whereas if what you want is to make sure that the text that you read on a screen is as crisp as possible, then you need to make the design and cost trade-offs that they made that lead you to making a $3, 500 device. So I think that there is a use case for that for sure, but I just think that The company is, we've basically made different design trade-offs to get to the use cases that we're trying to serve.

Speaker 0: There's a lot of other stuff I'd love to talk to you about, about the metaverse, especially the Kodak Avatar, which I've gotten to experience a lot of different variations of recently that I'm really, really excited about.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to talk about that too.

Speaker 0: I'll have to wait a little bit because, well, I think there's a lot more to show off in that regard. Guard. You

See all Lex Clips transcripts on Youtube

Mark Zuckerberg on Apple Vision Pro | Lex Fridman Podcast Clips