22 minutes 18 seconds
🇬🇧 English
Speaker 1
00:00
-♪ ♪ -♪ ♪ Our main story tonight concerns Taiwan. And it's honestly remarkable that we haven't talked about Taiwan before on this show, given it's the birthplace of bubble tea, which is delicious, even though tapioca ball sounds like a sex move for people over 70. And especially since Taiwan shares our unhealthy obsession with mascots. Cities there make tons of them.
Speaker 1
00:24
There is this 1, the Milkfish Kids, celebrating 1 area's milkfish production. And there is this 1 from a region that produces bananas, which I do not want to talk about right now. In fact, Taiwan makes so many mascots that in some cities, the very act of storing them has become a problem.
Speaker 2
00:39
We went with a city counselor to a Taipei public school, following her into the depths of a basement parking lot. Here, behind a door, we discovered a mountain of abandoned mascots. This is Sacred Fire Baby from 2013 National Games held in Taipei.
Speaker 2
01:00
The city government should really think about whether it's necessary to keep creating 1 off mascots.
Speaker 1
01:06
Oh, come on, Taiwan. You can't just keep making mascots and throwing them away. Thankfully, at the end of our seasons, our mascots go to live on a beautiful farm.
Speaker 1
01:16
A fantastic green farm, where Jeff the diseased lung can breathe fresh air, and the polar bear with a broken penis can get the care he so badly needs. I keep asking my producer where this farm is, and she keeps telling me, I'll tell you when you're older. I can't wait! -♪ I can't wait!
Speaker 1
01:30
♪ -♪ I can't wait! ♪ But obviously, the major reason that Taiwan ends up in the news these days is because of its relationship with China, which, to put it mildly, is fraught. And recently, it's getting even fraughter.
Speaker 3
01:42
China has long viewed Taiwan as its own national territory. China's President Xi Jinping on Saturday, all but declaring a policy. The complete reunification of our country must be and will be realized, he said.
Speaker 4
01:56
Military tensions between the 2 sides are soaring. China's Air Force sent nearly 150 planes into Taiwan's air defense zone since the start of this month.
Speaker 1
02:06
Yeah, they did. Not exactly like that, I presume, in a big stack. I'm guessing they flew the planes out 1 at a time, not heaped on top of each other like an air traffic controller's nightmare.
Speaker 1
02:17
The point is, China insists that Taiwan, an independently operating entity with its own democratically elected leaders, armed forces, and constitution, is actually part of China, and in no way a separate country. Here's an understatement. The Chinese government feels strongly about this. So strongly, in fact, that when John Cena went on a press tour for the most recent Fast and Furious movie and said, Taiwan is the first country that can watch F9, this is what happened Next.
Speaker 5
02:45
Actor John Cena has apologized to China after he called Taiwan a country.
Speaker 6
02:51
I'm very, very sorry for my mistake. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm very sorry.
Speaker 6
02:59
You must understand. I love and respect China and Chinese people. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1
03:10
Every part of that is so weird. It's weird John Cena apologized to China, it's weird he did it for calling Taiwan a country, and it's weird to see him do it in pretty decent Mandarin. That's just too many weird things.
Speaker 1
03:23
I half expected that shot to pan out to reveal he's also doing a needle point of Liam Neeson kissing an ostrich. Honestly, it would only make it slightly stranger. But John Cena is not alone here. Taiwan is such a third rail for China, that it may be why Paramount Pictures removed the Taiwanese flag from Tom Cruise's jacket for the Top Gun sequel, and it is definitely why The Gap apologized for releasing this T-shirt featuring a map of China without Taiwan attached.
Speaker 1
03:49
That shirt caused a shitstorm, and it led to The Gap, makers of the bland T-shirts that dads wear when they're on the elliptical for 30 minutes to apologize to 1.4 billion people. So, if China is getting T-shirt retractions from the gap, loudly vowing to reunify with Taiwan and sending stacks of warplanes towards it in record-breaking numbers, it feels like tonight, it'd be worth taking a look at Taiwan. How it got to be in the unique position that it's in, what the world wants from it, and most importantly, what it wants for itself. And let's start with how we got here.
Speaker 1
04:24
Historically, Taiwan has been like the Stanley Cup of Asian history in that different people keep passing it around and carving their names on it. Here is a ludicrously brief history of the last 400 years there. Taiwan, or as it's sometimes been called, Formosa, was first home to indigenous people, then colonized by the Dutch and briefly the Spanish, before China's Qing dynasty held it for about 200 years. Then, in 1895, China lost Taiwan to Japan, which turned it into a so-called model colony, imposing Japanese cultural values and generally, ruling it with an iron fist.
Speaker 1
04:57
Then, after World War II, 2 major things happened. First, the Allies put Taiwan back under Chinese control. And second, the civil war that was taking place in China between the Nationalist government, led by Chiang Kai-shek, and the Communists, led by Mao Zedong, ended. Now, spoiler alert, the Communists won.
Speaker 1
05:15
-♪ Ding! ♪ -♪ Ding! Congratulations to Mao! And in the wake of that defeat, Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan along with 2000000 nationalist soldiers and refugees, basically setting up a Chinese government in exile, meaning that China technically had 2 governments at the time, 1 in China and 1 in Taiwan.
Speaker 1
05:33
And Western countries were very invested in the success of the second 1, even calling Taiwan Free China, because they saw it as a necessary bulwark against communism.
Speaker 7
05:43
Against all prophecies, Formosa still keeps the anti-communist flag flying, only a hundred miles or so off the mainland of China. It's a prosperous island where the new generations grow up in freedom. A complete contrast to conditions under the rule of Mao Zedong.
Speaker 1
05:58
You know, I do kind of miss that period of human history where the only way to learn about other cultures was to have a British man on amphetamines tell you which were the good ones and which were the baddies. Here we see Formosians living in freedom. Well, not freedom per se, but the point is, they're not commies, and that's where my curiosity terminates.
Speaker 1
06:17
But while Chiang Kai-shek might have been a staunchly anti-communist U.S. Ally, historically, we've had a lot of those, and they often haven't been great people. And Chiang ruled Taiwan as a brutal authoritarian. Thousands were swept up in a period that came to be known as the White Terror, suffering imprisonment, torture, and even execution.
Speaker 1
06:38
Doing anything that could be remotely construed as criticism of the government was extremely risky, as 1 writer discovered when he merely translated a Popeye comic strip.
Speaker 8
06:52
Popeye and his son were in exile on an island, and they were campaigning for election there. Popeye gave a speech, and he used an English word, fellows. There could be hundreds of translations for fellows, but I chose 1 which was, all my fellow countrymen.
Speaker 8
07:11
This was terrible. The Bureau of Investigation arrested me, saying, why didn't you translate it into something else? This is exactly the way our President Jiang speaks. You are making fun of him.
Speaker 8
07:26
It deserves the death penalty. No doubt, the death penalty.
Speaker 1
07:30
It's true. That guy was interrogated for months on suspicion of being a communist collaborator and ultimately spent 9 years in prison, all because Jiang's government thought a Popeye comic had a hidden political message, which is a bit of a reach. There is clearly no deeper meaning to Popeye comics other than women are inherently prizes to be fought over, performance-enhancing drugs are cool, and Bluto doesn't deserve love.
Speaker 1
07:54
All of which is to say, in the middle of the last century, Taiwan was a grim place. But, after Chung died in 1975, under pressure both internationally and from political movements at home, the nationalists began to loosen their grip, ending martial law in the late 80s and opening the door to full democratization. So, against the odds, Taiwan shifted from a dictatorship to a functioning, vibrant democracy. And I do mean vibrant.
Speaker 9
08:21
A debate over how billions of euros will be allocated for an infrastructure development plan descended into a brawl in Taiwan's parliament on Tuesday. Members of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party and the opposition Nationalist Party threw water and shoved each other to the floor. Taiwan's MPs are known for brawling and even throwing objects at each other.
Speaker 9
08:42
And fights in parliament are even seen as 1 way for the opposition to show voters that it stands tough on issues.
Speaker 1
08:49
Yeah. Fighting is not uncommon in Taiwan's parliament. Here they are throwing water balloons at each other, and here they are hurling pig guts during a debate on pork imports. And that is not all.
Speaker 1
09:01
1 time in 2006, a member snatched a written proposal of a bill and shoved it into her own mouth, which is fantastic and definitely something that we should steal. You want to kill a clean energy bill? Pull up a chair and fucking eat all 900 pages of it. But Taiwan is not just a functioning democracy, it's a major player in the global supply chain.
Speaker 1
09:23
Taiwan was the fastest growing economy in Asia last year, and it's the world's key manufacturer of semiconductors, which are used absolutely everywhere in products from cars to sex toys. So the next time that you fire up a butt plug that has a hundred thousand times more computing power than the Apollo moon mission, make sure you say, -"Thanks, Taiwan." -$1,000. So all of this brings us to where we are right now, with Taiwan established as a highly developed and wealthy country, and yet, no 1 is allowed to call it 1. And that brings us back to the huge, unresolved issue of Taiwanese sovereignty, because China now sees claiming Taiwan as a key point of national pride, with Xi Jinping calling reunification part of his vision for the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation.
Speaker 1
10:08
And anyone wanting to do business in China knows that calling Taiwan a country is a massive faux pas. And it's not just the Gap and John Cena who have found this out. All of these companies have either had to apologize for or walk back even the smallest implication that Taiwan is a separate country. And you can see this caution everywhere.
Speaker 1
10:28
At this year's Olympics, you probably saw Taiwanese athletes competing not under the Taiwanese flag, but under the fake pseudo flag of Chinese Taipei. Something they've been forced to use at every Olympic since the 1980s, when they reached a compromise with the IOC that allowed them to participate without angering China. But this arrangement isn't something that all Taiwanese people appreciate. In fact, during the 2012 games, the lead singer of Taiwanese heavy metal band, Band Thonic, pointed out just how ludicrous it is.
Speaker 10
10:57
Our team, our national team been called Chinese fucking Taipei. AUDIENCE LAUGHS Fucking bullshit, right? Oh, we can't call you Taiwan, sorry.
Speaker 10
11:07
We have to call you Chinese fucking Taipei.
Speaker 1
11:10
Look, I know I say this every week, but that death metal singer complaining about Olympic nomenclature has a real point there. Although... Although, to be fair, if their official Olympics name really was Chinese fucking Taipei, that would at least be a little more accurate vis-a-vis who is fucking whom.
Speaker 1
11:29
And even Huge international organizations like the WHO are forced to play this ridiculous game, freezing out Taiwan from full participation. Last year, when 1 WHO official was pressed on this point by a Hong Kong newscaster, it led to this very awkward interaction.
Speaker 11
11:45
Will the WHO consider Taiwan's membership? Hello?
Speaker 7
12:01
I couldn't hear your question.
Speaker 11
12:02
Okay, let me repeat the question.
Speaker 7
12:05
Okay, let's move to another 1 then.
Speaker 11
12:07
Right, because I'm actually curious about Taiwan as well, on Taiwan's case.
Speaker 9
12:18
We decided to give Dr Alward another call to follow up.
Speaker 11
12:23
And I just want to see if you can comment a bit on how Taiwan has done so far in terms of containing the virus.
Speaker 7
12:30
Well, we've already talked about China.
Speaker 1
12:32
Oh! We did, did we? Are you sure about that? Because it sure seems like first, you pretended not to hear the question, then faked getting disconnected after committing the world's most telegraphed log off.
Speaker 1
12:46
That man couldn't be more clearly avoiding the question if he came back online pretending to be a lamp. You can't ask a lamp about Taiwan, especially me, I only speak French. So that's actually 2 reasons I shouldn't have to answer this question. I'm a lamp, and I only speak French, except for this brief paragraph in English explaining my situation.
Speaker 1
13:04
Au revoir, je suis lamp. -... But it is not just companies and international organizations. The vast majority of world governments have no official diplomatic relations with Taiwan because China won't have diplomatic relations with anyone who does.
Speaker 1
13:20
And for all the initial cheerleading from Western countries about Taiwan's pluck and verve in keeping the anti-communist flig flying, things have shifted. By the end of the 1970s, most countries had switched their recognition of China's official government from the 1 on Taiwan, known as the Republic of China, to the communist 1 on the mainland, the People's Republic of China. In fact, today, the number of governments still willing to diplomatically recognize Taiwan has joined us to only 14 countries and the Holy See. Although, that last 1 really shouldn't be that surprising to you.
Speaker 1
13:54
You know the Pope. He loves to stir shit up. --HARD LAUGHTER- Drinks wine in the morning. He's a messy bitch who lives for drama.
Speaker 1
14:02
Now, as for America, we've spent the past half century walking a diplomatic tightrope with a policy known as strategic ambiguity. It's something that lets us maintain functional relations with Taiwan and still have a full formal relationship with China. It's an approach that began in the 1970s, and it was built upon a series of incredibly carefully worded statements.
Speaker 12
14:25
The United States, in 1 of our communiques with the People's Republic of China, acknowledged the PRC position that Taiwan was part of China, but the United States also did not accept the PRC claim to Taiwan. That has been our position ever since, and so, in effect, the U.S. Views Taiwan's status as undetermined.
Speaker 1
14:49
Right. We acknowledged China's claim, but didn't agree with it, leaving Taiwan's status as undetermined. You know, like Schrodinger's cat, or the Scientology version, Miscavige's wife. They could be 1 thing or the other thing, and no 1 knows for sure, do they, David?
Speaker 1
15:05
Hey, David. David. Where's Shelley? But that confusion is emblematic of the strategic ambiguity policy.
Speaker 1
15:14
For instance, the U.S. Operates out of this building in Taiwan, often referred to as its de facto embassy, but not, crucially, as an actual embassy. Taiwan, meanwhile, has this building in D.C., which does pretty much everything that an embassy would do just without actually being called 1. And I know that this policy can occasionally seem ridiculous, but the uncertainty is kind of the point, especially when it comes to defense.
Speaker 1
15:38
In 1979, Congress passed the Taiwan Relations Act, in which the U.S. Committed to assist Taiwan in maintaining its self-defense capability. But that commitment very much stops short of the U.S. Promising to defend Taiwan from a Chinese invasion.
Speaker 1
15:53
Instead, it says, any effort to determine the future of Taiwan by other than peaceful means would be of grave concern to the United States. And what does that even mean? Does it mean the U.S. Would deploy military assets?
Speaker 1
16:06
Or just that the U.S. General would slightly raise an eyebrow? No 1 really knows. It is a willfully confusing, will they or won't they dance, that for 40 years has been the backbone of U.S.-Taiwan policy.
Speaker 1
16:19
And look, so far, we've been talking about Taiwan almost exclusively in terms of what other countries want from it, but the key question is clearly, what does it want for itself? But even That is not easy to answer. Taiwan is made up of a mix of different cultures, languages, and political viewpoints. Remember, their lawmakers sometimes throw pig intestines at each other in parliament.
Speaker 1
16:40
Everyone is not on the same page there. But to the extent Taiwanese people have spoken through the ballot box, They've chosen a government that wants to keep China at arm's length. That singer that you saw earlier talking about Chinese fucking Taipei, he's actually in Taiwan's parliament now. And he is openly pro-independence.
Speaker 1
16:58
As for Taiwan's current leader, Tsai Ing-wen, She was elected on a platform of defending Taiwan, but crucially, preserving the status quo. Just watch how cautiously she discusses the question of Taiwanese independence.
Speaker 12
17:13
Are you in principle at least in favour of the idea of formal Taiwanese independence?
Speaker 13
17:21
The reality and what it is now is that we are already a functionally independent country. We have our own government and we have our own election.
Speaker 12
17:32
Will there come a day when that reality needs to be spelled out by a formal declaration of independence?
Speaker 13
17:37
The idea is this, we don't have a need to declare ourselves an independent state, we are an independent country.
Speaker 1
17:44
Right. She's clearly declaring that they're independent there, but also very much drawing the line at a declaration of independence. Because she knows that Taiwan explicitly formalizing the way things are could cause a lot of trouble. It's like meeting your partner's parents for the first time and saying, hello, I regularly fuck your offspring.
Speaker 1
18:03
Yeah, everyone was aware of that, but now that you've officially declared it, things are gonna get much more difficult for everyone involved here. And the truth is, that intense pragmatism is in line with how many Taiwanese people feel. Polls have consistently shown that when they are asked about independence from or unification with China, something like 1 and a half percent want unification with China as soon as possible, and about 6 percent want independence as soon as possible. But the vast majority favor some version of sticking with the status quo at least for now, which does make sense because as things stand, as volatile as this situation can appear, day-to-day life in Taiwan can go on as normal as this Taiwanese man shows.
Speaker 7
19:00
Can you tell us about the situation in Taiwan?
Speaker 8
19:02
I think...
Speaker 6
19:04
I'm a man of
Speaker 8
19:04
my word. That's just the way
Speaker 7
19:08
it is.
Speaker 8
19:09
Taiwanese are just Taiwanese.
Speaker 1
19:13
Wow. That is a pretty relaxed attitude given the circumstances here. He's talking about the nuclear-armed, saber-rattling superpower taunting his country with warplanes like it's season 2 of Emily in Paris. You know, I don't love that it's happening, but honestly, I just try to carry on with my life.
Speaker 1
19:31
But the question is, can the currently safe status quo hold forever? Xi Jinping has stated that the question of Taiwan cannot simply be passed on from generation to generation, and those military drills do seem to be sending a message. And while experts say war is not imminent, Taiwan is understandably thinking about its own defense capabilities. Something, by the way, that the U.S.
Speaker 1
19:54
Has been happy to assist them in thinking about by selling them billions of dollars in weapons, showing that even strategic ambiguity has its price. But despite U.S. Assistance, the Taiwan military is obviously a fraction of China's, and its recent attempts to attract recruits have left something to be desired.
Speaker 14
20:13
The armed forces have been producing videos like this to try to drum up enthusiasm among potential young soldiers. But they've been struggling to make up for a shortfall left by a phasing out of conscription.
Speaker 1
20:26
Okay, I am really not sure that that is helping. That does not look like a group of people who are excited to be in the military. It looks like a bunch of background dancers who were cut from In the Heights because they were too boring to be on camera.
Speaker 1
20:38
So, what exactly can or should be done here? Well, that is something that the entire world has been dissecting for half a century now, and so far, the answer we seem to have settled on is some version of, next question, please. Which is clearly not very satisfying. And I know, ambiguity is inherently frustrating.
Speaker 1
20:58
Especially for Americans, who might look at a place like Taiwan, which looks and acts like a country, and feel that it is weird and farcical to not acknowledge it as 1. But from a practical standpoint, would that be better? And is that even what the people of Taiwan want? Could it be that maintaining the current, deeply weird, ambiguous status quo is actually the best option here?
Speaker 1
21:21
I don't know. I'm not Taiwanese, and frankly, people who aren't Taiwanese making decisions for Taiwan is a bit fucking played out historically. So Maybe the best thing that we can do is move past talking about Taiwan like it's some kind of poker chip in a never-ending game of us versus them, because the fact is, Taiwan is not a plucky bulwark against the red menace, nor is it some sort of island-sized Viagra to rejuvenate the Chinese nation. Taiwan is 23 million people who, in the face of considerable odds, have built a free, democratic society and very much deserve the right to decide their own future in any way that they deem fit, even if that means, sporadically, beating the absolute shit out of each other.
Speaker 8
22:15
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