- The speaker recalls how labels in the music business did not see rap as music when it first emerged.
- They produced the song "Walk This Way" with Run DMC and Aerosmith to demonstrate that rap is music.
- The song was initially polarizing but eventually became a big hit.
- The collaboration between Run DMC and Aerosmith introduced many people to hip hop and rock and roll.
- Aerosmith had fallen on hard times before the song but it helped bring them back into the mainstream.

Taken from JRE #1881 w/Rick Rubin:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5oDyN0CFjEwClqjZxJQf9O?si=afdf3f4ffdf245f3

I can remember being in, once Def Jam happened and we started having a lot of success putting out music, and I'm still probably at NYU, labels would come around and want to be involved in 1 way or another and and 1 label asks like what do you attribute the success of this to after all it's not music now these are people in the music business who are wooing us wanting to work with us And they're telling us they don't hear it as music.

That doesn't even make sense today, right?

But it was a completely alien underground form of music.

And because people were rapping instead of singing, that was 1 piece that wasn't understandable.

And then because the music was like, it's yours, where it's a drum machine, there's no melody, It was too foreign at that point in time for people to understand it as songs.

And in some ways, like, there's a song I produced with Run DMC and Aerosmith, Walk This Way.

And the whole purpose of doing that was to demonstrate this is music.

This is music and this is, not only is it music, it's familiar music, you're just not, you're not seeing it.

Like you're somehow removed from what's happening.

But it's easy to see if you, so again, if you create a demonstration.

So that's what Walk This Way was, was I looked for a song that was familiar and that the way it was written in the original version, the Aerosmith version, the phrasing of it was essentially a rap record.

The verses are, ba ba ba da da da da da da da da da da da da da.

It's not melodic, it's all about the phrasing.

And the beat, you know, the intro, psst, tat, ba boom boom tat, was already a known breakbeat in the hip hop world.

They had never heard, in hip-hop club, no 1 had heard of Aerosmith.

No 1 had heard of Walk This Way, but they knew the Toys in the Attic break, which was just that beat, not the song.

Can we play the intro to Aerosmith's Walk This Way?

I remember that being a very polarizing song.

Because people didn't know what to think it's like some people thought you were ruining walk this way by adding run DMC And some people like why do you have rum DMC with rock and roll?

Just that long That piece is the Toys in the Attic break, because it says Toys in the Attic on the record.

So if you went to a hip-hop club, you might hear that.

But I grew up on Aerosmith, and I grew up on ACDC, and I grew up on Ted Nugent.

And when I saw this disconnect, this was the way to like bridge the gap, just to explain what was happening.

Wow, how was it received in the music business when you did that?

I remember, I guess it was WBCN in Boston.

Can't remember if it was Marc Parenteau or who else was there?

The Morning Mattress was Charles Laquadera and Afternoons was Marc Parenteau.

Yeah, I don't know that it was either of them, but it might have been.

I just remember that BCN played the song, and it was a big deal also, because it was a rock station playing a hip hop record.

And I remember that there was this outrage from the audience, you know, take that garbage off.

And then within a few days, it was the most requested song on the station.

So it was like it definitely divided the audience.

When you hear something new and you don't have a reference for it, your first reaction might be to push it away.

I remember the first time I heard the Ramones when I was in probably junior high school.

And I heard the Ramones, and that was the first really punk rock fast music I ever heard.

I don't think there was any before the Ramones.

So if you're used to hearing normal tempo rock and roll, and then you hear the Ramones, I just laughed, just seemed like a joke.

And then eventually it became my favorite thing.

Did you come to Aerosmith and try to bring it to them?

I just had the idea of doing the song and recording the song with Run-DMC, and then the label said, why don't we reach out to Aerosmith and ask if they would participate?

And I was like, that sounds crazy to me, but if they'll do it, Obviously I'd love it.

They were 1 of my favorite bands growing up.

That was a groundbreaking moment in music.

If you really stop and think about all the ripples that came out of that particular song, that song introduced so many people to hip hop, and I'm sure so many hip hop fans to rock and roll and Run DMC.

You know, combining with Aerosmith is like the perfect combination 2 iconic bands

But also at that point in time Aerosmith had fallen on hard times.

I remember I saw Aerosmith play at Nassau Coliseum sold out incredible show and then 6 months later Aerosmith were playing at a club on Long Island called Speaks, which was like where the cover bands would play.

I think maybe Joe Perry left the band, which was part of it.

But I don't know how you can go from that popular to in this new condition that quickly.

I can't, I wasn't aware that that had happened.

That doesn't even make sense that something like that can happen in 6 months.

Yeah, maybe 600-person club, like a big club, but still a club, a big fall, a big fall.

So they did that and then did that song bring them back?

They had actually put out an album called Done With Mirrors, which was like their comeback album before Walk This Way and that did not was not well received and then Walk This Way came out and then it both broke Run-DMC in a mainstream way and rebroke Aerosmith as a mainstream group.


Speaker 0: The Joe Rogan Experience. I can remember being in, once Def Jam happened and we started having a lot of success putting out music, and I'm still probably at NYU, labels would come around and want to be involved in 1 way or another and and 1 label asks like what do you attribute the success of this to after all it's not music now these are people in the music business who are wooing us wanting to work with us And they're telling us they don't hear it as music.

Speaker 1: That doesn't even make sense today, right?

Speaker 0: No, no, no, no. Now, the world has changed. The world has changed. Wow. But it was a completely alien underground form of music.

And because people were rapping instead of singing, that was 1 piece that wasn't understandable. And then because the music was like, it's yours, where it's a drum machine, there's no melody, It was too foreign at that point in time for people to understand it as songs. Wow.

Speaker 1: It's hard to, it's, you know.

Speaker 0: Yeah, it's shocking. It's ridiculous. And in some ways, like, there's a song I produced with Run DMC and Aerosmith, Walk This Way. And the whole purpose of doing that was to demonstrate this is music. This is music and this is, not only is it music, it's familiar music, you're just not, you're not seeing it.

Like you're somehow removed from what's happening. But it's easy to see if you, so again, if you create a demonstration. So that's what Walk This Way was, was I looked for a song that was familiar and that the way it was written in the original version, the Aerosmith version, the phrasing of it was essentially a rap record. The verses are, ba ba ba da da da da da da da da da da da da da. It's not melodic, it's all about the phrasing.

That's how rap works. And the beat, you know, the intro, psst, tat, ba boom boom tat, was already a known breakbeat in the hip hop world. They had never heard, in hip-hop club, no 1 had heard of Aerosmith. No 1 had heard of Walk This Way, but they knew the Toys in the Attic break, which was just that beat, not the song. Wow.

Yeah, Let's listen to that. Can we play the intro to Aerosmith's Walk This Way?

Speaker 1: I remember when you did that. I remember that being a very polarizing song.

Speaker 0: Absolutely.

Speaker 1: Because people didn't know what to think it's like some people thought you were ruining walk this way by adding run DMC And some people like why do you have rum DMC with rock and roll? It doesn't make any sense

Speaker 0: Just that long That piece is the Toys in the Attic break, because it says Toys in the Attic on the record. Just that. So that was... So if you went to a hip-hop club, you might hear that.

Speaker 1: Wow.

Speaker 0: But I grew up on Aerosmith, and I grew up on ACDC, and I grew up on Ted Nugent. I grew up on rock and roll music. And when I saw this disconnect, this was the way to like bridge the gap, just to explain what was happening.

Speaker 1: Wow, how was it received in the music business when you did that?

Speaker 0: I guess the first thing was radio. I remember, I guess it was WBCN in Boston. Yeah. Played it once.

Speaker 1: Marc Parenteau?

Speaker 0: Can't remember if it was Marc Parenteau or who else was there?

Speaker 1: Charles Laquadera?

Speaker 0: No, tell me another name.

Speaker 1: God, that's hard to remember.

Speaker 0: Like DJs.

Speaker 1: The Morning Mattress was Charles Laquadera and Afternoons was Marc Parenteau.

Speaker 0: Yeah, I don't know that it was either of them, but it might have been. Again, I don't remember. I just remember that BCN played the song, and it was a big deal also, because it was a rock station playing a hip hop record. And I remember that there was this outrage from the audience, you know, take that garbage off. And then within a few days, it was the most requested song on the station.

So it was like it definitely divided the audience. But the best things do. That's what's really exciting. When you hear something new and you don't have a reference for it, your first reaction might be to push it away. I remember the first time I heard the Ramones when I was in probably junior high school.

And I heard the Ramones, and that was the first really punk rock fast music I ever heard. I don't think there was any before the Ramones. So if you're used to hearing normal tempo rock and roll, and then you hear the Ramones, I just laughed, just seemed like a joke. You know, it just seemed ridiculous. And then eventually it became my favorite thing.

Speaker 1: How did Aerosmith react? Did you come to Aerosmith and try to bring it to them? Did the label come

Speaker 0: to them? I just had the idea of doing the song and recording the song with Run-DMC, and then the label said, why don't we reach out to Aerosmith and ask if they would participate? And I was like, that sounds crazy to me, but if they'll do it, Obviously I'd love it. You know, I loved that band growing up. They were 1 of my favorite bands growing up.

So that seemed like a dream. And then they came and we did it. Wow.

Speaker 1: That was a groundbreaking moment in music. It really was. If you really stop and think about all the ripples that came out of that particular song, that song introduced so many people to hip hop, and I'm sure so many hip hop fans to rock and roll and Run DMC.

Speaker 0: Absolutely.

Speaker 1: You know, combining with Aerosmith is like the perfect combination 2 iconic bands

Speaker 0: But also at that point in time Aerosmith had fallen on hard times. I remember I saw Aerosmith play at Nassau Coliseum sold out incredible show and then 6 months later Aerosmith were playing at a club on Long Island called Speaks, which was like where the cover bands would play.

Speaker 1: 6 months?

Speaker 0: 6 months.

Speaker 1: What happened?

Speaker 0: I don't know. I don't really know. I think maybe Joe Perry left the band, which was part of it. But I don't know how you can go from that popular to in this new condition that quickly. But it happened.

That's wild. Yeah.

Speaker 1: I can't, I wasn't aware that that had happened. That doesn't even make sense that something like that can happen in 6 months. Nassau Coliseum, which is like, what

Speaker 0: is that? Sold out. 20,000, 18,000

Speaker 1: something. Jesus Christ, to a club.

Speaker 0: Yeah, maybe 600-person club, like a big club, but still a club, a big fall, a big fall. Wow.

Speaker 1: In 6 months.

Speaker 0: Yeah, really quick.

Speaker 1: So was it a scandal when Joe Perry left? Is that what it was? Was it like everyone was upset?

Speaker 0: I don't know. I really don't know.

Speaker 1: So they did that and then did that song bring them back?

Speaker 0: That song brought them back. Wow. Yeah. Holy shit. They had actually put out an album called Done With Mirrors, which was like their comeback album before Walk This Way and that did not was not well received and then Walk This Way came out and then it both broke Run-DMC in a mainstream way and rebroke Aerosmith as a mainstream group.

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Rick Rubin on How Walk This Way Brought Hip-Hop Into the Mainstream