- The person being interviewed had an esoteric appreciation for wine since 2000
- They couldn't describe or map out the different aspects of wine, but found it inspirational
- They gained knowledge about wine through experiences at wineries and spending time in Adelaide Hills at Penfolds
- They started appreciating wine in 1996 and owned a vineyard a few years later
- They found the process of making wine to make sense to them almost instantly
- They visited their first vineyard in 1997 or 1998 in New Zealand and became inspired to make their own wine
- Many people questioned their decision to start making wine, but they found it rewarding and grounding
- They have learned to improve their winemaking through adjusting variables such as grape selection and oak usage
- They reuse barrels and clean them with steam and water
- They manage their time through logistical time management

Taken from JRE #1887 w/Maynard James Keenan:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/62ZE9Pb59rQuyIHXpUrldr?si=292c03bc973343d8

But when you decided to do this in 2000, you must have had some sort of an esoteric appreciation.

I just couldn't describe that to you and I couldn't map out what year was what wine.

I could just tell you that everything about this wine is inspirational in some way.

Whether it's like the age on it, the acid structure, something that all the pistons were firing in terms of like all the sensory alarms that are going off in my mouth, the length of the experience, like how it's changing in the glass, yeah, that was very inspiring to me.

As far as actually being able to map that out for you, I'm an idiot, I couldn't do it.

Did you go through any sort of education in terms of like what is involved in the creation of a wine that you appreciate?

I just thought time in cellar, like spending time in Adelaide Hills at Penfolds for a very short amount of time.

Seeing it happening around the world, going to wineries while on tour, while they're trying to time it, where I can go when they're gonna actually harvest today to see what's the equipment are using, what are you doing, how are you doing this thing?

So before that were you a wine connoisseur?

I started appreciating wine maybe around 96.

So just a few years later you own a vineyard?

It's like, you know, going back to, I was talking to Donald today, like, he walked into Hickson's place on Pico back in the day.

Henry Eakins walked in the same week that I walked in to Hickson's Academy back in 95.

Henry Akins is 1 of the best black belts I've ever met.

It made sense to him, it clicked and it went, and there's no way you can figure out what that is to make him what he is, right?

I was not that guy, I had to work harder at it.

Wine was like I'd been doing it my whole life.

And then slowly backing up and understanding the chemistry of it, working with people to go action, reaction, and logging that in to develop that, you know, constantly.

But the process, just the basic logistics of making wine made sense to me almost instantaneously.

No, my first wine that I, you know, actually was involved in making was 2004.

But in 96, when you first started getting interested in it, you went to a vineyard?

You start to all of a sudden went from a dude who you know woke and grew up in a you know lower middle class family with teachers on you know teach Parents are to teach your budget, you know cutting wood for the winter to being on tour with a band and all sudden I can afford a bottle of wine that was more than $50.

Seeing all the agents and the lawyers and the fucking promoter and the manager and the fucking accountant all backstage having a nice glass of wine while I'm drinking Bud Light over here, going, where the fuck's that?

And I grabbed a glass and tried it and went, this is a new thing, this is something I wanna know about.

And when was the first time you actually went to a, do you remember the first vineyard you visited while they were doing all that?

Yeah, watching the process, watching, no, that was, I think they were doing Saint Blanc, I think, it might have been Pinot.

But they were de-stemming, and I was watching the stemming process going, okay, okay, machine.

And you just thought 1 day I'm gonna do that.

Yeah, and then the wheels started getting into motion.

How many people around you going Maynard, what the fuck are you doing?

It just seems like such a fucking intensive,

Like, Tim and I are like the logistics Nazis.

to not get in your own way, to understand the 16 steps.

Like today, dealing with that triangle, I kept getting my foot caught up and trying to get the leg around the head because I was getting in my own way.

I didn't shift enough to make it so that I wasn't in my own way.

I'm thinking 5 steps ahead, and I'm not gonna put a thing down in the way that I have to move and add 6 steps to get into the next step.

And this is a thing that you get better at?

I get better at it with every harvest, but I was already naturally inclined that way as far as, like, Tetris is my thing.

That's wild, because there's nothing like that in my mind that I'm fascinated by, that I would want to go and start developing a company that makes these things.

It seems like it's just so rare that something like a light bulb goes off and you're like, I need a wine press.

So when you crack open a bottle of wine today, do you ever open 1 and go, I should have waited?

Or I open up some of my stuff from before and go, yeah, I fucked that up.

But I know that I could have done better on this bottle.

And what would you have done to do better?

But, you know, there's adjustments that I've made over the years that have made it so that there's a higher percentage of success for that year

It all depends on the grape, depends how we picked

Is it Too much oak, is it not enough oak?

Yeah, well, when you're putting stuff in barrels, is it too new, is there too much flavor?

Am I imparting too much flavor on the wine?

Going back and tasting some of the stuff I early did, it's because they were new, I just bought the barrels.

So there's a lot of oak on some of the earlier wines that I did that is not there now because now they're older barrels and no longer imparting that flavor of oak.

So in hindsight, I can't change it, it's done.

Yeah, Get a couple new, but buy some neutral ones from somebody instead so that there was just a kiss of oak on it rather than a lot of new oak.

So there's a company that specializes in creating barrels?

No, you just go to some of the other wineries that are that are cycling through some of their barrels and you can buy used barrels from a reputable wineries.

I was gonna ask you next, do you reuse your barrels?

I use as much as I possibly can because I don't necessarily want the oak influence on the wine.

Does the wine that was in the barrel influence future wines?

So there's no chemicals, no nothing, just water?

I understand, but I don't understand where it's coming from.

This goes around yeah, it's 12 of those And there's another 12 like where the fuck is the time


Speaker 0: The Jerogan Experience.

Speaker 1: But when you decided to do this in 2000, you must have had some sort of an esoteric appreciation.

Speaker 0: Yes, 100%. I just couldn't describe that to you and I couldn't map out what year was what wine. I could just tell you that everything about this wine is inspirational in some way. Whether it's like the age on it, the acid structure, something that all the pistons were firing in terms of like all the sensory alarms that are going off in my mouth, the length of the experience, like how it's changing in the glass, yeah, that was very inspiring to me. As far as actually being able to map that out for you, I'm an idiot, I couldn't do it.

Speaker 1: Did you go through any sort of education in terms of like what is involved in the creation of a wine that you appreciate?

Speaker 0: I just thought time in cellar, like spending time in Adelaide Hills at Penfolds for a very short amount of time. Seeing it happening around the world, going to wineries while on tour, while they're trying to time it, where I can go when they're gonna actually harvest today to see what's the equipment are using, what are you doing, how are you doing this thing?

Speaker 1: Like when did that spark get ignited? Like what?

Speaker 0: 99.

Speaker 1: So it was like right before you started?

Speaker 0: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: So before that were you a wine connoisseur? Were you a wine appreciator?

Speaker 0: I started appreciating wine maybe around 96. Really?

Speaker 1: Yeah. So just a few years later you own a vineyard? Yeah. That's crazy.

Speaker 0: It just resonated. Whatever it was, it just clicked. It's like, you know, going back to, I was talking to Donald today, like, he walked into Hickson's place on Pico back in the day. Henry Eakins walked in the same week that I walked in to Hickson's Academy back in 95. Henry Akins is 1 of the best black belts I've ever met.

I can't... I can barely tie my belt.

Speaker 1: So. It resonated with him.

Speaker 0: It resonated with him. It made sense to him, it clicked and it went, and there's no way you can figure out what that is to make him what he is, right? I was not that guy, I had to work harder at it. Wine was like I'd been doing it my whole life.

Speaker 1: Almost instantly.

Speaker 0: It made sense. And then slowly backing up and understanding the chemistry of it, working with people to go action, reaction, and logging that in to develop that, you know, constantly. But the process, just the basic logistics of making wine made sense to me almost instantaneously.

Speaker 1: And this was from 96? Like when?

Speaker 0: No, my first wine that I, you know, actually was involved in making was 2004.

Speaker 1: But in 96, when you first started getting interested in it, you went to a vineyard?

Speaker 0: You just- It was just dinners. You start to all of a sudden went from a dude who you know woke and grew up in a you know lower middle class family with teachers on you know teach Parents are to teach your budget, you know cutting wood for the winter to being on tour with a band and all sudden I can afford a bottle of wine that was more than $50. You know, going, oh, this is cool. Seeing all the agents and the lawyers and the fucking promoter and the manager and the fucking accountant all backstage having a nice glass of wine while I'm drinking Bud Light over here, going, where the fuck's that? And I wanna know.

And I grabbed a glass and tried it and went, this is a new thing, this is something I wanna know about.

Speaker 1: And when was the first time you actually went to a, do you remember the first vineyard you visited while they were doing all that?

Speaker 0: I wanna say it was like 97, I think. 98, it was Pegasus Bay in New Zealand.

Speaker 1: In New Zealand?

Speaker 0: Yeah, watching the process, watching, no, that was, I think they were doing Saint Blanc, I think, it might have been Pinot. I think it was Pinot. But they were de-stemming, and I was watching the stemming process going, okay, okay, machine. I can afford a machine.

Speaker 1: And you just thought 1 day I'm gonna do that. Yeah, and then the wheels started getting into motion. Yeah. Wow. How many people around you going Maynard, what the fuck are you doing?

Speaker 0: All of them.

Speaker 1: All. It just seems like such a fucking intensive,

Speaker 0: complicated endeavor. Yeah. But it's rewarding. It's work. You're grounding.

There's setup. There's cleanup. There's logistics. Like, Tim and I are like the logistics Nazis. Like, we have to...

Speaker 1: There's a way to do it,

Speaker 0: to not get in your own way, to understand the 16 steps. Like today, dealing with that triangle, I kept getting my foot caught up and trying to get the leg around the head because I was getting in my own way. I didn't shift enough to make it so that I wasn't in my own way. In the cellar, I am not in my own way. I'm thinking 5 steps ahead, and I'm not gonna put a thing down in the way that I have to move and add 6 steps to get into the next step.

Speaker 1: And this is a thing that you get better at?

Speaker 0: I get better at it with every harvest, but I was already naturally inclined that way as far as, like, Tetris is my thing.

Speaker 1: Wow. That's wild, because there's nothing like that in my mind that I'm fascinated by, that I would want to go and start developing a company that makes these things. It seems like it's just so rare that something like a light bulb goes off and you're like, I need a wine press.

Speaker 0: Yeah. Just that.

Speaker 1: Wow. So when you crack open a bottle of wine today, do you ever open 1 and go, I should have waited?

Speaker 0: I mean, yeah, there's those instances. Or I open up some of my stuff from before and go, yeah, I fucked that up. This is a good bottle. It's okay. But I know that I could have done better on this bottle.

Speaker 1: And what would you have done to do better?

Speaker 0: Well, it depends on the grape. Depends on what I did. And it depends on the thing. But, you know, there's adjustments that I've made over the years that have made it so that there's a higher percentage of success for that year

Speaker 1: for that wine. What are those variables?

Speaker 0: It all depends on the grape, depends how we picked

Speaker 1: it, depends on what it did. Is it Too much oak, is it not enough oak? Oak in the casket?

Speaker 0: Yeah, well, when you're putting stuff in barrels, is it too new, is there too much flavor? Am I imparting too much flavor on the wine? Going back and tasting some of the stuff I early did, it's because they were new, I just bought the barrels. So there's a lot of oak on some of the earlier wines that I did that is not there now because now they're older barrels and no longer imparting that flavor of oak. So in hindsight, I can't change it, it's done.

Speaker 1: But I might've- Aged the barrels?

Speaker 0: Yeah, Get a couple new, but buy some neutral ones from somebody instead so that there was just a kiss of oak on it rather than a lot of new oak.

Speaker 1: So there's a company that specializes in creating barrels?

Speaker 0: No, you just go to some of the other wineries that are that are cycling through some of their barrels and you can buy used barrels from a reputable wineries.

Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you next, do you reuse your barrels?

Speaker 0: I use as much as I possibly can because I don't necessarily want the oak influence on the wine.

Speaker 1: Does the wine that was in the barrel influence future wines?

Speaker 0: No, you're rinsing it out pretty good. You know, you're cleaning them out.

Speaker 1: What do

Speaker 0: you clean it with? Steam.

Speaker 1: So there's no chemicals, no nothing, just water?

Speaker 0: Steam and water, yeah. Wow.

Speaker 1: How the fuck do you

Speaker 0: have time for all this? I just don't understand this. Logistical time management.

Speaker 1: I understand, but I don't understand where it's coming from. I'm looking at a clock. I'm going okay. This goes around yeah, it's 12 of those And there's another 12 like where the fuck is the time

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Joe Asks Maynard James Keenan About His Vineyard