Taken from JRE #1893 w/Will Harris:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0qf7CYEhxSFPAcdSw1JJMY?si=a7c053110120470b

So I'll tell you this, the Whole Foods Market continues to be my biggest customer.

They used to be virtually my only customer.

But My relationship with Whole Foods has been cooling for a decade and eventually I won't be in there anymore.

I Will will harass me sold Whole Foods market the first pound of American grass-fed beef that they marketed as American grass-fed beef 20 years ago.

And it, well at the time it was so lucky and it just, it caught traction and they wanted to buy all I sold.

But today it's a very different Whole Foods.

Greenwashing is big food advertising, using words to make consumers believe that the food they're selling is the same as what I'm producing, even though it's not.

Hey, is that, have you got that Global Animal Partnership whole foods video where you can show what to show.

Let's get a New York strip and definitely a fillet.

I can't tell you how much that angers me.

I mean that is their video that they made?

I'm sure it does sir But as me as a consumer looking at like what come on man the You're supposed to be Whole Foods Whole Foods to me is supposed to be a place where I can go and get healthy food That's like the idea behind it Whole Foods started by hippies started here in Austin great Whole Foods.

I want Whole Foods Let me go there, but what is and this is?

You have so many things you could tell me in a short period of time.

Healthier, better for the environment, you know, low carbon footprint.

It's all those things they could tell me.

And Whole Foods and Global Animal Partnership are big on greenwashing.

So let's talk about the Global Animal Partnership.

The Global Animal Partnership is an animal welfare nonprofit that Whole Foods financed I don't know, 15 years ago or something.

And I went to the first meeting, producer meeting they ever had in Denver of the Whole Foods had for the Global Animal Partnership rolling it out.

And it was all about this, I thought it was a great idea at the time, this animal welfare system so that step 1, which is low-hanging fruit, a little bit better than industrial, 2345, and 5 was great animal welfare, No physical alterations, can't castrate, whatnot.

We used to castrate everything born on my farm that wasn't named Harris.

And we quit castrating, you know, all the things we had to do to achieve step 5.

And it was explained to us at the time that we want to bring the industry into higher animal welfare, which was right up my alley.

And we're going to have this step 1, 2, which is low-hanging fruit that pretty much anybody, it's like hitting your foot in the door.

But all companies are expected to move up the continuum to let everybody stay up 4 or 5.

So I embraced it and became a step 5 plus.

I don't think they have just a very few in the country.

And they never would pay us anymore for our product.

But as a result, in the case, in the meat case, everything was step 1 and step 2, maybe a little step 3.

And they did allow producers, mostly big multinational corporations, to come in at step 1 and 2 and languish there.

You know, 15 years later, they're still step 1, step 2, which is not the way it was supposed to work.

So, now, instead of, even though there's 5 steps, they talk about how it's all great.

If you're gonna do it with your hands and mouth like that guy, You know, so step one's like, step 5 is like, you're not.

But you go to Whole Foods, you know, and look and ask them how much step 4 and 5 you got back there?

So most of it, here it goes, Jamie's got it here.

Step 1, no cages, no crates, no crowding.

Step 2, enriched environment, things to do.

Step 4, pasture centered based on an outdoor system.

Step 5, animal centered, no physical alterations.

And then step 5 plus, which is you, animal-centered, entire life on the same farm.

As shoppers can know exactly what the animal was raised for, the meat they are buying just by looking for the, what does it say, for the color-coded STEP rating on the product label as of October 1st, 2014.

STEP 5 program includes 2,451 farms and ranches that range from STEP 1 to STEP 5 plus and raise more than 147 million animals annually.

But they added everything together there.

Step 5 in program, look how they did that.

Step 5 in program includes 2,451 farms and ranches that range from step 1 to step 5 plus.

So by saying that and includes these 2,451 farms they're not saying how many of them are actually step 5.

They're like kind of fucking with you with the numbers there.

I'm not saying there won't be that many farms.

The distribution would be greatly skewed.

So if you go to a Whole Foods and say, hey, So I want that.

So they have to get very specific meat from places like you.

Well I mean I think the reason they had that particular segment now is because they didn't have much Step 5 back there.

So that allowed them to say, hey man, it's all good.

It's all better than anywhere else you're gonna get.

Yeah, it's a kind of a, it's a moronic way of describing it.

It's a different Whole Foods than the 1 I started with.

Is it because it's corporate now and because it's owned by big companies and it's all about when you're involved in a gigantic corporation like that, it's about maximizing profits.

The way I would state it is that industrialized farming and big food distribution co-evolved together.

You know, prior to the end of World War II, there was no industrial farming, and there were really no great big food companies, retail companies, you know, local Piggly Wiggly or what not, but there weren't.

And those all co-evolved, Big ag, big food, and industrial farming co-evolved together to what it is now.

And the guys that are managing the meat department's Whole Foods really need to pick up the phone and say, send me 48,000 pounds, a truckload of 48,000 pounds of six-ounce fillets to the following 5 distribution centers every week for the next month.

Ike, well, the Will Harris's of the world won't ever see 48,000 pounds of 6 ounce fillets.

The only people that can do that are Tyson, Cargill, JBS, Smithfield.

So the only way this is gonna work to do it your way is if someone's deeply committed to change.

I also sell to a grocery chain called Market District, 1 called Mom's, 1 called Publix, 1 called Kroger, and I don't feel as used as window dressing by those stores.

So you feel that like your way of doing it is it's almost like it's a trick they're trying to pretend that most of their meat is gotten from people like you

that's that's my perception which is your song

well it seems like that was the perception that I got from it too based on the way they use that giant number and said it's anywhere from step 1 to step 5 plus.

They kind of lumped everybody in together.

I've sold, I actually sold Publix supermarket prior to selling Whole Foods.

I sold them before I did Whole Foods and they, Publix, it's not an advertisement, they have ordered consistently from me every single week for 20 years.

There's no smoke and mirrors and, you know, there's just...

And, you know, Again, Whole Foods is still my biggest customer.

This probably will get me thrown out if it does.

I mean, we'll have to work a little harder and sell a little more online, you know, but

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, you know, there was a time that, well, it's a very different company.


Speaker 0: The Jerogen Experience. So I'll tell you this, the Whole Foods Market continues to be my biggest customer. They used to be virtually my only customer. But My relationship with Whole Foods has been cooling for a decade and eventually I won't be in there anymore. I Will will harass me sold Whole Foods market the first pound of American grass-fed beef that they marketed as American grass-fed beef 20 years ago.

And it, well at the time it was so lucky and it just, it caught traction and they wanted to buy all I sold. But today it's a very different Whole Foods. And we won't be there long.

Speaker 1: What's the issue?

Speaker 0: You know what greenwashing is? Greenwashing? Yeah. No. Sort of.

Greenwashing is big food advertising, using words to make consumers believe that the food they're selling is the same as what I'm producing, even though it's not. Hey, is that, have you got that Global Animal Partnership whole foods video where you can show what to show. Please.

Speaker 1: So greenwashing.

Speaker 0: Greenwashing? Okay. So what's this meat rating system about? Let me put it this way. Step 1 is like.

Step 5. So step 5. Let's get a New York strip and definitely a fillet.

Speaker 1: And what the hell does that mean?

Speaker 0: I can't tell you how much that angers me.

Speaker 1: Tell me what that means. That's their question? I mean that is their video that they made? Yeah. I'm sure it does sir But as me as a consumer looking at like what come on man the You're supposed to be Whole Foods Whole Foods to me is supposed to be a place where I can go and get healthy food That's like the idea behind it Whole Foods started by hippies started here in Austin great Whole Foods.

I want Whole Foods Let me go there, but what is and this is? What does that mean? You have so many things you could tell me in a short period of time. Healthier, better for the environment, you know, low carbon footprint. It's all those things they could tell me.

Instead they go... And that's their commercial.

Speaker 0: So this is about greenwashing. And Whole Foods and Global Animal Partnership are big on greenwashing.

Speaker 1: Okay, what is step 5 and step 4? What does

Speaker 0: all that mean? So let's talk about the Global Animal Partnership. Okay. The Global Animal Partnership is an animal welfare nonprofit that Whole Foods financed I don't know, 15 years ago or something. I don't know how long ago.

And I went to the first meeting, producer meeting they ever had in Denver of the Whole Foods had for the Global Animal Partnership rolling it out. And it was all about this, I thought it was a great idea at the time, this animal welfare system so that step 1, which is low-hanging fruit, a little bit better than industrial, 2345, and 5 was great animal welfare, No physical alterations, can't castrate, whatnot. We used to castrate everything born on my farm that wasn't named Harris. And we quit castrating, you know, all the things we had to do to achieve step 5. And it was explained to us at the time that we want to bring the industry into higher animal welfare, which was right up my alley.

I did too. And we're going to have this step 1, 2, which is low-hanging fruit that pretty much anybody, it's like hitting your foot in the door. But all companies are expected to move up the continuum to let everybody stay up 4 or 5. Okay. I thought it was great.

Sounds great. So I embraced it and became a step 5 plus. I don't think they have just a very few in the country. We want them. And they never would pay us anymore for our product.

But as a result, in the case, in the meat case, everything was step 1 and step 2, maybe a little step 3. And they did allow producers, mostly big multinational corporations, to come in at step 1 and 2 and languish there. You know, 15 years later, they're still step 1, step 2, which is not the way it was supposed to work. So, now, instead of, even though there's 5 steps, they talk about how it's all great. And it's not all great.

If you're gonna do it with your hands and mouth like that guy, You know, so step one's like, step 5 is like, you're not. It just pisses me off. I would imagine. But you go to Whole Foods, you know, and look and ask them how much step 4 and 5 you got back there? And probably not much.

Speaker 1: So most of it, here it goes, Jamie's got it here. Step 1, no cages, no crates, no crowding. Step 2, enriched environment, things to do. Step 3, enhanced outdoor access. Step 4, pasture centered based on an outdoor system.

Step 5, animal centered, no physical alterations. That means castration and all that. And then step 5 plus, which is you, animal-centered, entire life on the same farm. As shoppers can know exactly what the animal was raised for, the meat they are buying just by looking for the, what does it say, for the color-coded STEP rating on the product label as of October 1st, 2014. STEP 5 program includes 2,451 farms and ranches that range from STEP 1 to STEP 5 plus and raise more than 147 million animals annually.

But they added everything together there.

Speaker 0: Oh

Speaker 1: yeah. Step 5 in program, look how they did that. Step 5 in program includes 2,451 farms and ranches that range from step 1 to step 5 plus. So by saying that and includes these 2,451 farms they're not saying how many of them are actually step 5. They're like kind of fucking with you with the numbers there.

Speaker 0: And I can tell you it's not many.

Speaker 1: It's Not 2,451. But that's step 1 to step 5.

Speaker 0: I'm not saying there won't be that many farms. I'm saying that's not...

Speaker 1: Not that many step fives.

Speaker 0: The distribution would be greatly skewed.

Speaker 1: So if you go to a Whole Foods and say, hey, So I want that. How many you got? It's less, far less. So they have to get very specific meat from places like you.

Speaker 0: Well I mean I think the reason they had that particular segment now is because they didn't have much Step 5 back there. So that allowed them to say, hey man, it's all good.

Speaker 1: Right, it's all good. It's all better than anywhere else you're gonna get. And that's greenwashing.

Speaker 0: That's greenwashing.

Speaker 1: That makes sense.

Speaker 0: It devalues what the Step 5 Plus does.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a kind of a, it's a moronic way of describing it.

Speaker 0: It's a different Whole Foods than the 1 I started with.

Speaker 1: Is it because it's corporate now and because it's owned by big companies and it's all about when you're involved in a gigantic corporation like that, it's about maximizing profits.

Speaker 0: Ultimately. Everything you said is right. The way I would state it is that industrialized farming and big food distribution co-evolved together. You know, prior to the end of World War II, there was no industrial farming, and there were really no great big food companies, retail companies, you know, local Piggly Wiggly or what not, but there weren't. And those all co-evolved, Big ag, big food, and industrial farming co-evolved together to what it is now.

And the guys that are managing the meat department's Whole Foods really need to pick up the phone and say, send me 48,000 pounds, a truckload of 48,000 pounds of six-ounce fillets to the following 5 distribution centers every week for the next month. Ike, well, the Will Harris's of the world won't ever see 48,000 pounds of 6 ounce fillets. The only people that can do that are Tyson, Cargill, JBS, Smithfield. So that's that co-evolution.

Speaker 1: So the only way this is gonna work to do it your way is if someone's deeply committed to change.

Speaker 0: Yeah, let me say this. I also sell to a grocery chain called Market District, 1 called Mom's, 1 called Publix, 1 called Kroger, and I don't feel as used as window dressing by those stores.

Speaker 1: So you feel that like your way of doing it is it's almost like it's a trick they're trying to pretend that most of their meat is gotten from people like you

Speaker 0: that's that's my perception which is your song

Speaker 1: well it seems like that was the perception that I got from it too based on the way they use that giant number and said it's anywhere from step 1 to step 5 plus. They kind of lumped everybody in together.

Speaker 0: I've sold, I actually sold Publix supermarket prior to selling Whole Foods. I sold them before I did Whole Foods and they, Publix, it's not an advertisement, they have ordered consistently from me every single week for 20 years. They put it out there. People, Buy it or not. There's no bullshit.

There's no smoke and mirrors and, you know, there's just... No greenwashing. No greenwashing. It's just honestly buy out or not. And, you know, Again, Whole Foods is still my biggest customer.

This probably will get me thrown out if it does. Does it?

Speaker 1: Do you think they will?

Speaker 0: I don't know.

Speaker 1: You just don't seem to care though. Well, it

Speaker 0: ain't much of an ass-kissing business. I like it. They do what they want to do. I mean, we'll have to work a little harder and sell a little more online, you know, but

Speaker 1: But you'd prefer that, to bullshit?

Speaker 0: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, you know, there was a time that, well, it's a very different company.

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Regenerative Farmer Will Harris on Whole Foods and Green Washing