Taken from JRE #1960 w/Andrew Schulz:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/20qmdc3cwlwdmcaxQJeJpr?si=40a7b2fe00ab4144

Like, if we outsource all the things that we're guilty about, does it leave at our border?

If there was a company that came along that was like if Samsung said hey, we're gonna make all of our phone cruelty-free Cruelty-free.

We're gonna get all of our cobalt from this place that where we can ensure You that there's nothing there and and no Chinese factory workers making you know 16 cents a day or whatever the fuck they make Yeah, it's not if yeah if there's a phone that was made in America that cost twice as much I buy it in a fucking Heartbeat,

and because there isn't we what do we do?

They fucked us Okay, and you know to to to be connected to something Where you absolutely?

Absolutely need it, but it's morally reprehensible at its very core Like imagine how many people have tweeted?

Self-righteous things on a phone that was made by slaves.

That's that's the reality of these phones And Apple's 1 of the richest fucking companies on planet Earth.

I don't know what the logistics would be involved in making a phone in America with skilled labor that gets paid a Fair wage and gets health insurance and union benefits and all that stuff But whatever it is, I feel like I would like to pay that

maybe and if I don't have the money I'll buy less phones.

It still seems so normal when I fire it up.

Do we have cobalt in America that we can mine?

I don't know is cobalt Available, I thought it's

well That's where the primary source is for sure, but I think there's at least 1 other place on earth I Don't remember correctly

Why don't you say let's just like Mexico.

Well for sure someone's working with them.

I mean it's not just like 100% Mexican citizens that are sneaking across here and doing all this business.

Yeah someone for sure is working with them.

It's not good to have this, like, fake scenario.

If you make drugs illegal, no one's gonna do drugs.

Okay, because that's not the correct math.

The correct math is, if you make drugs illegal, then illegal people sell drugs, you fucking asshole.

And so now you've propped up a multi-billion dollar industry south of the border filled with ruthless murderers.

is the only cobalt mine in the United States and it's going to remain so.

Let's let the world make their own moral decisions, but maybe if we we legitimately are the moral high ground We could like encourage the rest of the world to realize like the same thing We were talking about earlier about having too much money Like Just don't you can't just think about my at a certain point in time You just you have to just figure out what's best for everybody

and in this situation if I was the king of the world if I was the king of America I would say how about we only make?

Yeah, we make American-made phones with American will have Sanitary conditions that are safe and if you know what provide health care All the things that you would hope someone working a fucking Cobalt mine would get, give them a great wage, like make it so that this is an even exchange, it's not a negative exchange.

Protect them from all the, and if we knew that the Cobalt we're getting on our phone, you don't have to worry.

These guys make $100,000 a year, they're fucking well paid, they live in a great community, okay great.

Now I don't feel bad about my phone, but if you watch those videos from Foxconn you see those fucking poor people Slaving away all day long in this sweatshop 16 hours a day they have bunks there and shit they put nets around the building to keep people from jumping off That is so wild instead of changing the conditions.

Yeah, grab you by your hair fucking drag you back down onto the floor.

You probably owe them money or something.

I mean, I don't know how they fucking do that.

feel- You would want everything you use in your everyday life to have a clean connection to like ethically sourced materials, you know, great relationships with workers, no greedy corporations that are fucking over the environment.

I think they'd want that if they had excess.

I think most people are like trying to pay their fucking rent and they're like, all right, if this is a little bit cheaper, I have a little bit more money for my family, my parents who are sick, and my kids, like I can buy them another fucking baseball mitt.

And so they can't even consider people in the Congo.

And I think that's the tricky thing, where they know, it's almost like the Amazon situation, where it's like, most people probably know that Amazon might not be the best situation for mom and pop businesses, but it's so convenient to them and it's so much cheaper and it's so efficient that they just go, all right, well this is great for me.

It is interesting, but I think that in those circumstances when there's people that just can't afford to buy whatever it is ethically sourced and organically grown, that there should be other options.

But if there was a clear option that someone could take, if a phone costs 1,200 bucks,

I just looked up as saying that cell phones are not what's driving the cobalt price rise it is a price rise batteries it's bad batteries

But that but that is what they use them in cell phones.

and how much is in like a 9-volt battery Yeah That's okay, I see your point.

We're thinking about it as cell phones, but that's because cell phones are the primary method of communication.

Just how many podcasts are listened to on cell phones?

Imagine if Cell phones were made illegal and people still had to get podcasts.

The majority of modern electric vehicles use these battery chemistries and lithium nickel manganese, manganese, manganese, manganese cobalt oxide, which have a cathode containing 10 to 20% cobalt.

But that's a different measurement unit, right?

Either way, I mean, it's like, it's kind of for everything with lithium-ion batteries.

It's like it's like it's almost like asking

4 to 30 kilograms for UV 5% Okay, cell structure requires a minimum amount of cobalt about 5% and less lower energy density Lithium ion batteries without cobalt are used at the expense of performance a typical smartphone battery requires only 5 to 20 grams of cobalt whereas an EV requires between 4 and 30 kilograms Whoa?

It's electric cars electric cars are fucking up the environment oh no isn't that like what a conundrum

mean it's not just the environment it's like I'm what I'm saying the environment I'm like the frequency of the earth.

Until somebody cleans that up, the mines, until somebody actually looks at it, every electronic thing with lithium ion batteries is connected to this horrific crime against humanity.

all the chitter chatter all the talk about a quality and equity and Helping and charity and what about that?

This ain't a secret It's not like a fucking X marks a spot in a pirate map.

Yeah Google and I Has the Darth car on my Podcast we talked about it in front of fucking millions of people people know it's a thing.

Yeah, they're not they're not even talking about it They're not doing shit.

Yeah, we're not gonna stop using our phones

That's it should be the name of the company Idaho cell phone company dude.

I don't mind they mine cobalt Let's build like this what if Apple was smart.

They'd make a deal Okay, like you buy iPhone you buy iPhone Pro iPhone Pro Max you can buy that or you could buy an Idaho cell phone company iPhone.

It costs $2,000 but it's made in fucking Idaho and you get to see the photos of the people that work in the factory, and you know that everybody's getting paid well, and everybody has health insurance.

100%, it would be a big status thing to have the Idaho Cell Phone Company's iPhone.

Like the state of Idaho, like the way it's on the map, like on the back, just says ICC.


Speaker 0: The Jorogun Experience. Yeah, where does our guilt extend? Like, if we outsource all the things that we're guilty about, does it leave at our border? Never.

Speaker 1: It never leaves. You have a phone that's made by slaves.

Speaker 0: But do you feel guilty about it? Yes, you do

Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. If there was a company that came along that was like if Samsung said hey, we're gonna make all of our phone cruelty-free Cruelty-free. We're gonna get all of our cobalt from this place that where we can ensure You that there's nothing there and and no Chinese factory workers making you know 16 cents a day or whatever the fuck they make Yeah, it's not if yeah if there's a phone that was made in America that cost twice as much I buy it in a fucking Heartbeat,

Speaker 0: but there isn't

Speaker 1: there isn't

Speaker 0: and because there isn't we what do we do? We put up with the guilt like

Speaker 1: well, they fucked up. They fucked us Okay, and you know to to to be connected to something Where you absolutely? Absolutely need it, but it's morally reprehensible at its very core Like imagine how many people have tweeted? Self-righteous things on a phone that was made by slaves.

Speaker 0: Yes

Speaker 1: That's that's the reality of these phones And Apple's 1 of the richest fucking companies on planet Earth. I don't know what the logistics would be involved in making a phone in America with skilled labor that gets paid a Fair wage and gets health insurance and union benefits and all that stuff But whatever it is, I feel like I would like to pay that

Speaker 0: and we have

Speaker 1: maybe and if I don't have the money I'll buy less phones. I'll buy a phone. I have a fucking iPhone 11. 1 of my phone lines is an iPhone 11. It's great.

It still works. It still seems so normal when I fire it up. It doesn't seem any different to me.

Speaker 0: But do we have the mineral? Do we have cobalt in America that we can mine?

Speaker 1: I don't think we do in America.

Speaker 0: That's the tricky thing.

Speaker 1: I don't know is cobalt Available, I thought it's

Speaker 0: only available in like the Congo

Speaker 1: well That's where the primary source is for sure, but I think there's at least 1 other place on earth I Don't remember correctly

Speaker 0: Boom Mexico, let's go Mexico's Listen we

Speaker 1: have a problem with the cartels. Why don't you say let's just like Mexico.

Speaker 0: Do we have a problem with them? Do we have a problem with the cartels? Are we working with a cartel?

Speaker 1: Well for sure someone's working with them. I mean it's not just like 100% Mexican citizens that are sneaking across here and doing all this business. Someone's working with them. God damn what's wrong with my throat. Yeah someone for sure is working with them.

But it's not good. It's not good to have this, like, fake scenario. You have a fake scenario. It would say, drugs are bad. If you make drugs illegal, no one's gonna do drugs.

Like, your math sucks. Okay, because that's not the correct math. The correct math is, if you make drugs illegal, then illegal people sell drugs, you fucking asshole. And so now you've propped up a multi-billion dollar industry south of the border filled with ruthless murderers. Idaho

Speaker 0: is the only cobalt mine in the United States and it's going to remain so. Okay, so we have some cobalt here. I'm sure they could find some more.

Speaker 1: Maybe we have just enough for us. How about just for us? Let's let the world make their own moral decisions, but maybe if we we legitimately are the moral high ground We could like encourage the rest of the world to realize like the same thing We were talking about earlier about having too much money Like Just don't you can't just think about my at a certain point in time You just you have to just figure out what's best for everybody

Speaker 0: Yes,

Speaker 1: and in this situation if I was the king of the world if I was the king of America I would say how about we only make? Phones that are in America. Yeah, we make American-made phones with American will have Sanitary conditions that are safe and if you know what provide health care All the things that you would hope someone working a fucking Cobalt mine would get, give them a great wage, like make it so that this is an even exchange, it's not a negative exchange. Protect them from all the, and if we knew that the Cobalt we're getting on our phone, you don't have to worry. These guys make $100,000 a year, they're fucking well paid, they live in a great community, okay great.

Now I don't feel bad about my phone, but if you watch those videos from Foxconn you see those fucking poor people Slaving away all day long in this sweatshop 16 hours a day they have bunks there and shit they put nets around the building to keep people from jumping off That is so wild instead of changing the conditions.

Speaker 0: They won't let you kill you. That's crazy

Speaker 1: They're like get back to work. Yeah, grab you by your hair fucking drag you back down onto the floor. You probably owe them money or something. I mean, I don't know how they fucking do that.

Speaker 0: Yeah, it's a tricky 1. Do you

Speaker 1: feel- You would want everything you use in your everyday life to have a clean connection to like ethically sourced materials, you know, great relationships with workers, no greedy corporations that are fucking over the environment. Everybody would want that.

Speaker 0: I think they'd want that if they had excess. I think most people are like trying to pay their fucking rent and they're like, all right, if this is a little bit cheaper, I have a little bit more money for my family, my parents who are sick, and my kids, like I can buy them another fucking baseball mitt. And so they can't even consider people in the Congo. And I think that's the tricky thing, where they know, it's almost like the Amazon situation, where it's like, most people probably know that Amazon might not be the best situation for mom and pop businesses, but it's so convenient to them and it's so much cheaper and it's so efficient that they just go, all right, well this is great for me.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's that. It is interesting, but I think that in those circumstances when there's people that just can't afford to buy whatever it is ethically sourced and organically grown, that there should be other options. But if there was a clear option that someone could take, if a phone costs 1,200 bucks,

Speaker 2: right? I just looked up as saying that cell phones are not what's driving the cobalt price rise it is a price rise batteries it's bad batteries

Speaker 1: well yeah well that was the

Speaker 0: lesson shit

Speaker 1: But that but that is what they use them in cell phones. It's like lithium-ion batteries Yeah, 8

Speaker 2: grams of cobalt is in a cell phone

Speaker 1: and how much is in like a 9-volt battery Yeah That's okay, I see your point. You're right. It's everything electronics. We're thinking about it as cell phones, but that's because cell phones are the primary method of communication. Just how many podcasts are listened to on cell phones?

All of them? Yeah. Or is it like 90%? Imagine if Cell phones were made illegal and people still had to get podcasts.

Speaker 0: Done.

Speaker 1: The majority of modern electric vehicles use these battery chemistries and lithium nickel manganese, manganese, manganese, manganese cobalt oxide, which have a cathode containing 10 to 20% cobalt. And what was the cell phone?

Speaker 2: 8 grams.

Speaker 1: 8 grams. But that's a different measurement unit, right? 1 of them's percentage.

Speaker 0: Yeah, I was trying to find.

Speaker 1: 1 of them's grams. How

Speaker 0: many grams?

Speaker 1: Either way, I mean, it's like, it's kind of for everything with lithium-ion batteries. It does something to stabilize it

Speaker 0: You know what? It's like it's like it's almost like asking

Speaker 1: 4 to 30 kilograms for UV 5% Okay, cell structure requires a minimum amount of cobalt about 5% and less lower energy density Lithium ion batteries without cobalt are used at the expense of performance a typical smartphone battery requires only 5 to 20 grams of cobalt whereas an EV requires between 4 and 30 kilograms Whoa? It's electric cars electric cars are fucking up the environment oh no isn't that like what a conundrum

Speaker 0: life is I

Speaker 1: mean it's not just the environment it's like I'm what I'm saying the environment I'm like the frequency of the earth. Yes. Until somebody cleans that up, the mines, until somebody actually looks at it, every electronic thing with lithium ion batteries is connected to this horrific crime against humanity. Yeah, what are we doing? Nothing?

Speaker 0: Nothing? Why

Speaker 1: all the chitter chatter all the talk about a quality and equity and Helping and charity and what about that? We're all not a

Speaker 0: personally responsible. Yeah, bro.

Speaker 1: This ain't a secret It's not like a fucking X marks a spot in a pirate map.

Speaker 0: Nope. This is Google.

Speaker 1: Yeah Google and I Has the Darth car on my Podcast we talked about it in front of fucking millions of people people know it's a thing. Yeah, they're not they're not even talking about it They're not doing shit.

Speaker 0: It's inconvenient. It's too inconvenient to care about

Speaker 1: it's very inconvenient For all of us.

Speaker 0: Yeah, we're not gonna stop using our phones

Speaker 1: Idaho cell phone company

Speaker 0: You gonna start it

Speaker 1: That's it should be the name of the company Idaho cell phone company dude. I don't mind they mine cobalt Let's build like this what if Apple was smart. They'd make a deal Okay, like you buy iPhone you buy iPhone Pro iPhone Pro Max you can buy that or you could buy an Idaho cell phone company iPhone. It costs $2,000 but it's made in fucking Idaho and you get to see the photos of the people that work in the factory, and you know that everybody's getting paid well, and everybody has health insurance. You know, you would do it?

Speaker 0: Of course.

Speaker 1: 100%, it would be a big status thing to have the Idaho Cell Phone Company's iPhone.

Speaker 0: But that is good. That is good. We reward caring about other

Speaker 1: people. 100%.

Speaker 0: We want that. We want that.

Speaker 1: ICC.

Speaker 0: I-C-C.

Speaker 1: Idaho Cell Phone Company.

Speaker 0: This might happen.

Speaker 1: Like just old school, just a fucking...

Speaker 0: Flip phone.

Speaker 1: Like the state of Idaho, like the way it's on the map, like on the back, just says ICC. And everybody know you got an ICC? Oh shit, cool bro. Helping out the environment.

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Phones, Cobalt Mining, and America Outsourcing Guilt