Taken from JRE #1980 w/Michio Kaku:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/41RxLAMSdaAd97OAFEpG3H?si=2e789f4865d84c63

Now in application of this thing, 1 of the things that we're seeing right now, when we're talking about quantum computing, back to that, 1 of the things we're seeing now is Chat GPT.

Chat GPT, which is this Fascinating AI program that essentially scours the entire internet for answers to things and is so good at it The answers for things for just just data people are getting diagnosed with certain diseases Based on symptoms and blood work and it's a super accurate Legal papers it could fill out legal forms and it's it's wild the capacity That's a

Yes The bar exam can be passed with a chatbot.

If quantum computing gets involved in AI, what are we looking at?

Well, first of all, AI is a software program.

We're talking about homogenizing different kinds of essays on the web, splicing them together, and then passing it off as your latest creation.

Basically plagiarism using digital computers.

However, quantum computers is bigger than that.

Quantum computers is a hardware question, where it actually increases your ability to do much more than with an ordinary digital computer.

So the 2 of them, the chatbots that are a revolution in software, and then quantum computers which are a revolution in hardware, when they get together, watch out.

So we're talking about an extremely powerful alliance between software and hardware.

Now also, as you know, chatbots will also lie, cheat, swindle, joke, and do all sorts of crazy things.

If you're a high school kid, you could write all sorts of science fiction scenarios, and some chatbot may grab pieces of that nonsense and incorporate it into their essay.

Chatbots do not know what is correct or incorrect.

They just gather information so they could be gamed.

That's right, all they do is homogenize, cut up existing things that sound human, put it together, and then people say, my God, that sounds like a human wrote it.

It's not interesting that they could game that also if they wanted to find out what percentage of people believed a certain thing.

If they had some bad actors, some foreign, you know, governments that decided they were going to spread narratives as widely as possible.

And ChatGBT just gathers up all this information.

It could give you an incorrect understanding of what's happening in the world.

It can give you an incorrect understanding of politics, of economics.

point is that even though there's a good aspect to all these software programs, the downside is that you can fabricate truth because they cannot tell the difference between what is false and what is true.

If you talk to the chatbot and say, do you know the difference between correct and incorrect?

They're just instructed to cobble together existing paragraphs, splice them together and polish it up, and then spit it out.

So it is essentially like an amazing resource of information that's very flawed, that can't discern and can't think.

I do this, I have this problem all the time.

I'm a professor and I give assignments to the students, sometimes write a term paper.

Well, you read the essay and then you read another essay and you say, I've heard that before.

A chatbot is like a teenager that plagiarizes other people's essays, passes it off as their own.

We like to think about things that are creative, new, innovative, things that'll change our perception of the world.

None of that, absolutely none of that, comes from a chatbot.

A chatbot simply rearranges pre-existing essays.

The thing is, though, that's all it does now.

What's interesting is what you're talking about with quantum computing and the insane computational power.

And then apply that to having access to all of the information.

You know, when I write a book, my publisher has a fact checker.

A fact checker that goes through all the different statements that I make to make sure that they're all correct.

That's the reason why they're so dangerous.

They don't know what is correct, what is incorrect.

That's the danger, that they could incorporate teenagers ranting and raving about all sorts of garbage and put that in with articles that sound reasonable.

Now here's where quantum computers come in.

Quantum computers can act as a fact checker.

You can ask a quantum computer to remove all the garbage, remove all the nonsense in these articles, and it'll do that.

So in other words, the hardware may be a check on some of the wild statements made by software.

But the problem with that is, who's the arbiter of the information?

It's going to be able to discern what's real and what's not real,

If there are gradations of what is true, like it is partially true or whatever, it can give you the detailed understanding of what could be misconstrued, what is partially correct, what is misleading, but partially correct.

Right now, the chatbot just splices it together like an editor, that's all it is, an editor, not a fact checker, and spits out cobbled together articles that sound reasonable, but there could be dynamite inside some of these articles that were spliced into what was proposed.

With a quantum computer, you can fact check things.

And then you can say, this is 90% correct, this is totally wrong, this is sometimes correct, and you get gradations of what is correct and incorrect.

Well, if you can get an objectively accurate fact-checker, that would be a huge step up from what we have today because a lot of people have very little faith in certain fact-checkers And when you find out that they're ideologically biased or they're governmentally biased And if you could have something that could just tell you if you even Pay attention to how Twitter's doing it now, where they have community notes.

Say if someone makes a statement about something controversial, climate change, whatever, and then this controversial statement gets refuted in the community notes, and then people will start commenting, and really intelligent, very well-read people on specific subjects will chime in with peer-reviewed papers and all these different statistics that show, and then Twitter will correct it.

And it will say, readers have said, and then put up the relevant information.

Right, see that's what chatbots do not do today.

They have no understanding of correct or incorrect, false and true, no understanding of that.

But with hardware coming into the picture that is more advanced, then yeah, you're talking about machines that can do that automatically.

But it's the problem, who controls that machine?

Like say if China gets a hold of 1 of those machines first, if they develop a quantum computer first, and they start implementing it.

Well, we have to make sure that our quantum computers can check other people's quantum computers to make sure that they're not fudging the facts.

Now, remember that if this is not done legally, if there are no laws passed in this direction, and it's like the Wild West, Then of course the politicians get involved and it becomes a real mess.

Now we do know that you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater.

Therefore there are limits to free speech.

But how do you make limits on statements that are written on the web that no human can possibly follow, that's where quantum computers can come in.

Quantum computers are powerful enough to survey the entire landscape and give reasonable rebuttals to things that are just outrageous.

Well, more than that, it's going to be able to instantaneously change how we interact with each other in terms of language barriers, all these issues that we have currently.

I'm sure you're aware of Google had their earbuds.

There was a feature where, say, if you went to Spain and didn't speak Spanish, you could talk to it, and they would talk to it, and it would translate back and forth.

So you could have a real-time conversation.

But if there's something like augmented reality, and we have something like that, you're going to be able to instantaneously translate what people are saying.

There'll be no language barriers for people.

We'll be able to, I think that would change just human perception across the world.

It's so easy to think of each other as being different because we speak a different language and we live in a different part of the planet.

But that would literally change how we interact with each other.

Yeah, and just remember that Where do correct ideas come from?

Correct ideas come from interaction with incorrect ideas.

It's the struggle between ideas out of which correct ideas emerge.

And this does not happen on the internet because of course with chatbots, Everything is cobbled together, cut, spliced, and simply glued together with scotch tape, masquerading as an essay.

So with fact-checking, I think it's going to be different because unless we do fact-checking, the politicians will get involved and this could be a real mess.

So I would hope that the industry does fact checking by itself rather than having politicians do it.

It's such an important point that you said where you said that the bad ideas have to exist so the good ideas triumph.

And that's really an argument against censorship on the internet, which is another problem that people have, especially censorship when it comes to something being ideologically based.

But when you're thinking about quantum computing, I think this is small potatoes, right?

I think we're looking at literally being able to change how we interact with the universe.

Like when we were talking on our last podcast about the preponderance of evidence that there's things that operate inside of our atmosphere that are beyond imagination, that they operate with no visible means of propulsion, they move at insane speeds, we don't understand what they are.

If we think about what quantum computing is going to be capable of, that's the kind of stuff we're thinking about,

Right, yeah, you see quantum computers are the ultimate computers because they're computing on atoms.

If there are aliens in outer space, and I think there are, it means that they also have perfected quantum computers, and they can do calculations that are far beyond anything that we can calculate with.

A wormhole, in principle, is a gateway between 2 distant points in space and time, which allows you to break the Einstein barrier and go faster than the speed of light.

It may take a quantum computer to sort through what happens when you go through a wormhole and wind up on the other side of the universe and the aliens probably already have done that.

They've probably had centuries of experience with quantum computers because that's the ultimate computer.

You can't compute in anything smaller than an atom.

And they probably already have used the quantum computers to navigate through wormholes, let's say, hypothetically.

It's so fascinating when you think of where we were just a few thousand years ago, or a few hundred years ago, to where we are now.

And then you imagine the invention of quantum computing, you imagine everything, just the whole idea of whatever we think of current computer progression just goes out the window.

And it's insane calculation capabilities.

We could be able to do something like that in the future.

Quantum computers allows us to calculate things that are way beyond our ability to calculate today, like going through a wormhole or warp drive, or even the question of multiple universes.

People ask the question, how come quantum computers are so powerful?

It's because they compute in parallel universes.

This is the multiverse, which of course Marvel Comics has discovered and the Oscars have discovered recently.

But the multiverse idea comes from quantum physics.

Electrons can be 2 places at the same time.

Now some people have a hard time getting their head around that, but get used to it.

Because the electrons that are in this microphone dance between universes at the atomic level.

And so we have to get used to the idea that quantum computers introduces a whole new way of looking at reality.

Now, reality is not a Marvel comic, but the idea of the multiverse comes from quantum physics.

And that is electrons can be multiple places at the same time.


Speaker 0: The Jorogon Experience.

Speaker 1: Now in application of this thing, 1 of the things that we're seeing right now, when we're talking about quantum computing, back to that, 1 of the things we're seeing now is Chat GPT. Chat GPT, which is this Fascinating AI program that essentially scours the entire internet for answers to things and is so good at it The answers for things for just just data people are getting diagnosed with certain diseases Based on symptoms and blood work and it's a super accurate Legal papers it could fill out legal forms and it's it's wild the capacity That's a

Speaker 0: bar exam that way. Yes The bar exam can be passed with a chatbot.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like 98%, right? Now, here's the question. If quantum computing gets involved in AI, what are we looking at?

Speaker 0: Well, first of all, AI is a software program. We're talking about homogenizing different kinds of essays on the web, splicing them together, and then passing it off as your latest creation. Basically plagiarism using digital computers. It's a software question. However, quantum computers is bigger than that.

Quantum computers is a hardware question, where it actually increases your ability to do much more than with an ordinary digital computer. So the 2 of them, the chatbots that are a revolution in software, and then quantum computers which are a revolution in hardware, when they get together, watch out. So we're talking about an extremely powerful alliance between software and hardware. Now also, as you know, chatbots will also lie, cheat, swindle, joke, and do all sorts of crazy things. If you're a high school kid, you could write all sorts of science fiction scenarios, and some chatbot may grab pieces of that nonsense and incorporate it into their essay.

Speaker 1: Oh, interesting. So it can't discern what's accurate.

Speaker 0: Exactly. The whole point. This is the whole ball of wax. Chatbots do not know what is correct or incorrect.

Speaker 1: They just gather information so they could be gamed.

Speaker 0: That's right, all they do is homogenize, cut up existing things that sound human, put it together, and then people say, my God, that sounds like a human wrote it. Of course, a human did write it.

Speaker 1: It's not interesting that they could game that also if they wanted to find out what percentage of people believed a certain thing. If they had some bad actors, some foreign, you know, governments that decided they were going to spread narratives as widely as possible. And ChatGBT just gathers up all this information. It could give you an incorrect understanding of what's happening in the world. It can give you an incorrect understanding of politics, of economics.

The whole

Speaker 0: point is that even though there's a good aspect to all these software programs, the downside is that you can fabricate truth because they cannot tell the difference between what is false and what is true.

Speaker 1: That's very interesting.

Speaker 0: If you talk to the chatbot and say, do you know the difference between correct and incorrect? And they say, no, it's just on the web. They're just instructed to cobble together existing paragraphs, splice them together and polish it up, and then spit it out. But is it correct? It doesn't care.

It doesn't know.

Speaker 1: So it is essentially like an amazing resource of information that's very flawed, that can't discern and can't think.

Speaker 0: I do this, I have this problem all the time. I'm a professor and I give assignments to the students, sometimes write a term paper. So what do they do? Some of them plagiarize.

Speaker 1: How do you catch them?

Speaker 0: Well, you read the essay and then you read another essay and you say, I've heard that before. I've seen that expression. Oh, you did it the old-fashioned way.

Speaker 1: Yeah, right,

Speaker 0: the old-fashioned way. But you see, that's what a chatbot is. A chatbot is like a teenager that plagiarizes other people's essays, passes it off as their own. Now, I'm a scientist. We like to think about things that are creative, new, innovative, things that'll change our perception of the world.

None of that, absolutely none of that, comes from a chatbot. A chatbot simply rearranges pre-existing essays. That's all it does.

Speaker 1: The thing is, though, that's all it does now. That's what's interesting. What's interesting is what you're talking about with quantum computing and the insane computational power.

Speaker 0: Right.

Speaker 1: And then apply that to having access to all of the information.

Speaker 0: Right, but there's a good aspect too. You know, when I write a book, my publisher has a fact checker. A fact checker that goes through all the different statements that I make to make sure that they're all correct. There is no fact checker for chatbots. Let me repeat that again.

There is no fact checker for chatbots. That is the whole ball of wax. That's the reason why they're so dangerous.

Speaker 1: Because

Speaker 0: they can, they don't know. These chatbots are machines. They don't know what is correct, what is incorrect. It's all the same to them. That's the danger, that they could incorporate teenagers ranting and raving about all sorts of garbage and put that in with articles that sound reasonable.

You see? That's the problem. Now here's where quantum computers come in. Quantum computers can act as a fact checker. You can ask a quantum computer to remove all the garbage, remove all the nonsense in these articles, and it'll do that.

So in other words, the hardware may be a check on some of the wild statements made by software.

Speaker 1: But the problem with that is, who's the arbiter of the information? Who decides what's real and what's not? How does the chatbot decide? Is the chatbot ideologically biased?

Speaker 0: The chatbot doesn't. The chatbot simply spits

Speaker 1: it out. The quantum computing does.

Speaker 0: Yeah, quantum computing can then...

Speaker 1: It's going to be able to discern what's real and what's not real,

Speaker 0: even if

Speaker 1: it's propaganda.

Speaker 0: If there are gradations of what is true, like it is partially true or whatever, it can give you the detailed understanding of what could be misconstrued, what is partially correct, what is misleading, but partially correct. You see what I'm saying? Right now, the chatbot just splices it together like an editor, that's all it is, an editor, not a fact checker, and spits out cobbled together articles that sound reasonable, but there could be dynamite inside some of these articles that were spliced into what was proposed. With a quantum computer, you can fact check things. And then you can say, this is 90% correct, this is totally wrong, this is sometimes correct, and you get gradations of what is correct and incorrect.

Speaker 1: Well, if you can get an objectively accurate fact-checker, that would be a huge step up from what we have today because a lot of people have very little faith in certain fact-checkers And when you find out that they're ideologically biased or they're governmentally biased And if you could have something that could just tell you if you even Pay attention to how Twitter's doing it now, where they have community notes. Have you seen this?

Speaker 0: No, I haven't.

Speaker 1: It's interesting. Say if someone makes a statement about something controversial, climate change, whatever, and then this controversial statement gets refuted in the community notes, and then people will start commenting, and really intelligent, very well-read people on specific subjects will chime in with peer-reviewed papers and all these different statistics that show, and then Twitter will correct it. And it will say, readers have said, and then put up the relevant information.

Speaker 0: Right, see that's what chatbots do not do today. They have no understanding of correct or incorrect, false and true, no understanding of that. But with hardware coming into the picture that is more advanced, then yeah, you're talking about machines that can do that automatically.

Speaker 1: But it's the problem, who controls that machine? Like say if China gets a hold of 1 of those machines first, if they develop a quantum computer first, and they start implementing it.

Speaker 0: Well, we have to make sure that our quantum computers can check other people's quantum computers to make sure that they're not fudging the facts.

Speaker 1: Right, that's what

Speaker 0: I'm talking about. Now, remember that if this is not done legally, if there are no laws passed in this direction, and it's like the Wild West, Then of course the politicians get involved and it becomes a real mess. Now we do know that you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. Therefore there are limits to free speech. We get that.

But how do you make limits on statements that are written on the web that no human can possibly follow, that's where quantum computers can come in. Quantum computers are powerful enough to survey the entire landscape and give reasonable rebuttals to things that are just outrageous.

Speaker 1: Well, more than that, it's going to be able to instantaneously change how we interact with each other in terms of language barriers, all these issues that we have currently. I'm sure you're aware of Google had their earbuds. There was a feature where, say, if you went to Spain and didn't speak Spanish, you could talk to it, and they would talk to it, and it would translate back and forth. So you could have a real-time conversation. I'm not sure how good is it.

How good is that, Jim? But if there's something like augmented reality, and we have something like that, you're going to be able to instantaneously translate what people are saying. Yeah. There'll be no language barriers for people. We'll be able to, I think that would change just human perception across the world.

Just the way we view each other. It's so easy to think of each other as being different because we speak a different language and we live in a different part of the planet. But that would literally change how we interact with each other.

Speaker 0: Yeah, and just remember that Where do correct ideas come from? Correct ideas come from interaction with incorrect ideas. It's the struggle between ideas out of which correct ideas emerge. And this does not happen on the internet because of course with chatbots, Everything is cobbled together, cut, spliced, and simply glued together with scotch tape, masquerading as an essay. So with fact-checking, I think it's going to be different because unless we do fact-checking, the politicians will get involved and this could be a real mess.

So I would hope that the industry does fact checking by itself rather than having politicians do it.

Speaker 1: It's such an important point that you said where you said that the bad ideas have to exist so the good ideas triumph. And that's really an argument against censorship on the internet, which is another problem that people have, especially censorship when it comes to something being ideologically based. But when you're thinking about quantum computing, I think this is small potatoes, right? I think we're looking at literally being able to change how we interact with the universe. Like when we were talking on our last podcast about the preponderance of evidence that there's things that operate inside of our atmosphere that are beyond imagination, that they operate with no visible means of propulsion, they move at insane speeds, we don't understand what they are.

If we think about what quantum computing is going to be capable of, that's the kind of stuff we're thinking about,

Speaker 0: right? Right, yeah, you see quantum computers are the ultimate computers because they're computing on atoms. If there are aliens in outer space, and I think there are, it means that they also have perfected quantum computers, and they can do calculations that are far beyond anything that we can calculate with. Like, for example, a wormhole. A wormhole, in principle, is a gateway between 2 distant points in space and time, which allows you to break the Einstein barrier and go faster than the speed of light.

But the calculations are horrendous. It may take a quantum computer to sort through what happens when you go through a wormhole and wind up on the other side of the universe and the aliens probably already have done that. They've probably had centuries of experience with quantum computers because that's the ultimate computer. You can't compute in anything smaller than an atom. And they probably already have used the quantum computers to navigate through wormholes, let's say, hypothetically.

Speaker 1: It's so fascinating when you think of where we were just a few thousand years ago, or a few hundred years ago, to where we are now. And then you imagine the invention of quantum computing, you imagine everything, just the whole idea of whatever we think of current computer progression just goes out the window. And it's insane calculation capabilities. We could be able to do something like that in the future.

Speaker 0: Right. Quantum computers allows us to calculate things that are way beyond our ability to calculate today, like going through a wormhole or warp drive, or even the question of multiple universes. People ask the question, how come quantum computers are so powerful? It's because they compute in parallel universes. This is the multiverse, which of course Marvel Comics has discovered and the Oscars have discovered recently.

But the multiverse idea comes from quantum physics. Electrons can be 2 places at the same time. Now some people have a hard time getting their head around that, but get used to it. That's why we have lasers. That's why we have transistors.

That's why we have the internet. That's why we have this conversation. Because the electrons that are in this microphone dance between universes at the atomic level. And so we have to get used to the idea that quantum computers introduces a whole new way of looking at reality. Now, reality is not a Marvel comic, but the idea of the multiverse comes from quantum physics.

And that is electrons can be multiple places at the same time.

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Michio Kaku on Quantum Computing and AI Chat-bots