Taken from JRE #2002 w/Amanda Feilding:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/04O1q0t4aBhLLYgcZpT7TM?si=37b80664f2f54b8d

I've heard you say that you believe that what psychedelics do is make the mind more fertile for these experiences.

I think you're at that level where the ego's control

And so if you've, whatever, if you're ready for mystical experience, you're more likely to have it in that experience, in that state of mind.

So the mind is actually restricting us in many ways through the ego from having these experiences.

And what psychedelics do is release those boundaries.

I think that due to the evolution of man, the Homo sapiens, and taking the upright position, this is a theory I was introduced to in 1966, and actually I think a lot of the details are probably wrong, but in concept I think it's true, which is the ape standing upright.

1 thing people haven't taken into account is obviously there are hundreds of acids that are standing upright.

the upright position, gravity is against the blood in the brain.

Because in the brain, there are 2 fluid volumes, blood and cerebral spinal fluid, which is water, basically, which is made in the brain itself.

So it has kind of squatters rights in the brain.

So when you're in that position, gravity is pulling the blood down.

So I think probably with that position we lost a small proportion of our blood supply.

I mean, some animals, if you tie them upright, a dog, for instance, if it's tied up so it can't get down,

it hasn't got the valves to keep the blood up.

And we've obviously got a certain amount, but maybe we lost some blood at that upright position.

And as a compensation for that loss, I think we developed an internal mechanism more than any other animal has done it, which is to direct the blood where it most needs to go.

They have the power to send the blood where it's most important to survival or whatever.

And I think that through the use of the conditioned sound, the word, we learn to control that process more than any other animal.

And over the millennia, we kind of build up our power to do that.

So I think that's the secret of why humans, you know, which is a talking ape, got control of the whole game because of our creation of language, which enabled us to

But it also has a disadvantage that our basic state is slightly low in blood in the dominant organ.

So we have to keep this mechanism of tight control where the blood is distributed and that is evolved with the ego Which is essential.

I mean we wouldn't survive without the ego to kind of Direct the blood where it's most needed People who lose their ego and in the 60s when people took large doses of LSD, as it was then, every day, sometimes they lost their ego.

And there was 1 occasion of someone we knew who was in Ibiza and he'd flipped out and he put the key in

Someone would say goodnight to him, he'd put the key in the

And then in the morning he was still there with the key in the door because the head hadn't told him, turn the key over the door.

So, the words have made us what we are, this incredible animal who can,

you know, have a nuclear war if we want or know all

the atoms in the body, all those brilliant things we do, which is amazing.

But we're also obviously a very deeply faulted animal at some point.

We're, you know, neurotic, psychotic, psychotic, you know, all of those things because of this shortage of blood and then the dependent on the meaning of the word.

So if we have a terrible conditioning, which a lot of people do, the separation from reality is, in a sense, in the meaning of the word.

So the danger of our society now in a sense is we're getting further and further away from

a way is why psychedelics can be a very useful medicine, because they increase the connectivity with the senses, with the internal bodily senses and also the outside perceptual senses.

So I actually think that we're entering a kind of new possible age, and that's why for fun I call it the psychedelic age, because for the first time we've got or getting the knowledge by which we can actually understand the brain better and understand how we can alter the volume of blood in the brain, which is giving the brain energy.

The more energy we have, the more parts of the brain can function simultaneously.

And that obviously can be very creative, stimulating, empathic by just having more of the brain functioning.

And so I think that the knowledge of psychedelics, and when I say psychedelics, I don't actually mean necessarily psychedelics, because as we all know, 1 can get these experiences endogenously through exercise or...

Holotropic breathing, exactly, or breathing exercise.

I mean, all the spiritual training all knew that.

That's what they were doing in the spiritual disciplines, is teaching people how to control their internal ego and also their sense of consciousness.

spiritual experience is the getting higher and loosening the grip of the ego, so you're more in touch with nature.

Do you think that in the absence of these psychedelic experiences, 1 of the problems with words is that we develop narratives and then we use our ego to reinforce these narratives and we sort of deny objective reality?

I think more and more the word can become the reality.

I mean, in the creation of words, which we

thankful to have, but nevertheless it does create a slightly different world.

It's rather like the shadows on Plato's wall.

1 gets one's internal edition of the world, rather than the real experience of the world.

And so, I think it's good to be in contact with nature, and I think it's a dangerous path that we're taking now, where it becomes more and more life is the screen.

And it has great advantages as well as dangers, kind

But I do think that the knowledge of getting high has always been central to the human evolution.

And at the earliest demonstrations of what we've got, of the earliest demonstrations of human culture, say The caves in Chauvet, do you know that?

Which I think they've never been bettered.

I mean, that artwork, the brush strokes of those animals, they're alive, you can see the movement.

So I can tell, because I am in some respects an artist.

Pull up some of those images, Jamie, because some of those images are, here we go.

Yeah, they did create a feeling of movement like the animals were running.

I mean, anyone who paints, I mean, Picasso, I think, said without them he would have never done what he did.

I can't remember quite, but modern art isn't better.

It's crazy because they're depicting rhinos too.

So it was obviously very spiritual, because why go into

if it's just the kind of magical, spiritual experience they're having?

And so I think, without doubt, they were high.

How they got there, was it through singing, drumming, or singing, or was it through taking compounds?

Funny enough, I've recently been introduced to a charming man who's an archaeologist in charge of Chauvet, And I said I'd love to be able to analyze and see

if there's any remnants of some psychoactive substance.

And he said I was very welcome to go there.

So I'm very excited about the possibility.


Speaker 0: The Jerogen Experience.

Speaker 1: I've heard you say that you believe that what psychedelics do is make the mind more fertile for these experiences. Yes. Is that a good way to

Speaker 0: put it?

Speaker 2: Yes. That's exactly what I think. I think you're at that level where the ego's control

Speaker 0: has dissolved to some degree.

Speaker 2: And so it's like fertile ground. And so if you've, whatever, if you're ready for mystical experience, you're more likely to have it in that experience, in that state of mind.

Speaker 1: So the mind is actually restricting us in many ways through the ego from having these experiences.

Speaker 0: Yes, I think so.

Speaker 1: And what psychedelics do is release those boundaries.

Speaker 2: Yes. I think that due to the evolution of man, the Homo sapiens, and taking the upright position, this is a theory I was introduced to in 1966, and actually I think a lot of the details are probably wrong, but in concept I think it's true, which is the ape standing upright. 1 thing people haven't taken into account is obviously there are hundreds of acids that are standing upright. Free your hands, you run faster,

Speaker 0: you see further, all of that. But in

Speaker 2: the upright position, gravity is against the blood in the brain. Because in the brain, there are 2 fluid volumes, blood and cerebral spinal fluid, which is water, basically, which is made in the brain itself. So it has kind of squatters rights in the brain. So when you're in that position, gravity is pulling the blood down. So I think probably with that position we lost a small proportion of our blood supply.

I mean, some animals, if you tie them upright, a dog, for instance, if it's tied up so it can't get down,

Speaker 0: it will start howling and go mad because

Speaker 2: it hasn't got the valves to keep the blood up. And we've obviously got a certain amount, but maybe we lost some blood at that upright position. And as a compensation for that loss, I think we developed an internal mechanism more than any other animal has done it, which is to direct the blood where it most needs to go. Obviously, all animals do that. They have the power to send the blood where it's most important to survival or whatever.

And I think that through the use of the conditioned sound, the word, we learn to control that process more than any other animal. And over the millennia, we kind of build up our power to do that. So I think that's the secret of why humans, you know, which is a talking ape, got control of the whole game because of our creation of language, which enabled us to

Speaker 0: do these incredible things we do.

Speaker 2: Yes. But it also has a disadvantage that our basic state is slightly low in blood in the dominant organ. So we have to keep this mechanism of tight control where the blood is distributed and that is evolved with the ego Which is essential. I mean we wouldn't survive without the ego to kind of Direct the blood where it's most needed People who lose their ego and in the 60s when people took large doses of LSD, as it was then, every day, sometimes they lost their ego. They flipped out.

And there was 1 occasion of someone we knew who was in Ibiza and he'd flipped out and he put the key in

Speaker 0: the lock to open the door. Someone would say goodnight to him, he'd put the key in the

Speaker 2: lock and left him. And then in the morning he was still there with the key in the door because the head hadn't told him, turn the key over the door.

Speaker 0: We need the words

Speaker 2: to keep us, you know, under control. So, the words have made us what we are, this incredible animal who can,

Speaker 0: you know, have a nuclear war if we want or know all

Speaker 2: the atoms in the body, all those brilliant things we do, which is amazing. But we're also obviously a very deeply faulted animal at some point. We're, you know, neurotic, psychotic, psychotic, you know, all of those things because of this shortage of blood and then the dependent on the meaning of the word. So if we have a terrible conditioning, which a lot of people do, the separation from reality is, in a sense, in the meaning of the word. So the danger of our society now in a sense is we're getting further and further away from

Speaker 0: nature in a sense. And that in

Speaker 2: a way is why psychedelics can be a very useful medicine, because they increase the connectivity with the senses, with the internal bodily senses and also the outside perceptual senses. So I actually think that we're entering a kind of new possible age, and that's why for fun I call it the psychedelic age, because for the first time we've got or getting the knowledge by which we can actually understand the brain better and understand how we can alter the volume of blood in the brain, which is giving the brain energy. The whole thing is about energy. The more energy we have, the more parts of the brain can function simultaneously. Simultaneously.

And that obviously can be very creative, stimulating, empathic by just having more of the brain functioning. And so I think that the knowledge of psychedelics, and when I say psychedelics, I don't actually mean necessarily psychedelics, because as we all know, 1 can get these experiences endogenously through exercise or...

Speaker 1: Holotropic breathing.

Speaker 2: Holotropic breathing, exactly, or breathing exercise. I mean, all the spiritual training all knew that. That's what they were doing in the spiritual disciplines, is teaching people how to control their internal ego and also their sense of consciousness. And I think

Speaker 0: at the center of the

Speaker 2: spiritual experience is the getting higher and loosening the grip of the ego, so you're more in touch with nature.

Speaker 1: Do you think that in the absence of these psychedelic experiences, 1 of the problems with words is that we develop narratives and then we use our ego to reinforce these narratives and we sort of deny objective reality?

Speaker 2: Yes. I think more and more the word can become the reality. I mean, in the creation of words, which we

Speaker 0: all have and have to have and are

Speaker 2: thankful to have, but nevertheless it does create a slightly different world. It's rather like the shadows on Plato's wall. 1 gets one's internal edition of the world, rather than the real experience of the world. And so, I think it's good to be in contact with nature, and I think it's a dangerous path that we're taking now, where it becomes more and more life is the screen. But still, that's the way we're going.

And it has great advantages as well as dangers, kind

Speaker 0: of thing.

Speaker 2: But I do think that the knowledge of getting high has always been central to the human evolution. And at the earliest demonstrations of what we've got, of the earliest demonstrations of human culture, say The caves in Chauvet, do you know that? Yes, yeah. Which I think they've never been bettered. I mean, that artwork, the brush strokes of those animals, they're alive, you can see the movement.

No 1 ever did it better.

Speaker 1: And it's like 30-something

Speaker 2: thousand years old? Exactly, 35, 40, something around there. So I can tell, because I am in some respects an artist. I know those strokes.

Speaker 1: Let's see. Pull up some of those images, Jamie, because some of those images are, here we go. Amazing stuff.

Speaker 2: They're just incredible, aren't they? The movement of the

Speaker 1: animals, the feeling. Yeah, they did create a feeling of movement like the animals were running.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and the lines. I mean, anyone who paints, I mean, Picasso, I think, said without them he would have never done what he did. I can't remember quite, but modern art isn't better. It gets as good, but not really.

Speaker 1: It's crazy because they're depicting rhinos too.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Just really wild. There was rhinos in France.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Beautiful ones of horses and buffaloes. And that's in

Speaker 0: the bowels of the earth they do it.

Speaker 2: So it was obviously very spiritual, because why go into

Speaker 0: the bowels of the earth

Speaker 2: if it's just the kind of magical, spiritual experience they're having? And so I think, without doubt, they were high. How they got there, was it through singing, drumming, or singing, or was it through taking compounds? Funny enough, I've recently been introduced to a charming man who's an archaeologist in charge of Chauvet, And I said I'd love to be able to analyze and see

Speaker 0: if we can find out

Speaker 2: if there's any remnants of some psychoactive substance. And he said I was very welcome to go there. So I'm very excited about the possibility.

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Researcher Amanda Feilding on The Effects of Psychedelic Use on the Ego