Taken from JRE #2028 w/Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/04gQ8km0XhEitU1Vz4lA3j?si=721b41b302b841a3

It's the first time in history that you have Commander David Fravor, Lieutenant Ryan Graves, and then 1 whistleblower, a guy named David Grush, who we can't validate what he said because it's all classified information.

But Commander Fravor, a friend of ours, he just told what happened to him.

Then you've got Ryan Graves, who his whole squadron has been seeing these things.

But Grush stood up there, and he was very careful with his words, and I want people to know why.

If you look at that setting, you're going to see right behind him was a guy named Chuck.

Chuck McCullough is the former intelligence community inspector general.

So like the cops of the intelligence community and He was right behind David Grush who is his client?

So he's representing David Grush because David Grush put a whistleblower complaint He put Yeah, and look at those 2 handsome guys right there.

So there's, yeah, this is the biggest conspiracy photo of all time.

Can you imagine people seeing this and being like, what are those idiots doing up there with him?

dude with the beard and the glasses in the back, he looks so happy.

People think that that guy with the bald head is James Clapper by the way I got a bunch of

a bunch of comments that Clapper was looking at my notes

He's just part of a Ryan's organization as a but you know, here's the deal Man this photo is kind of hilarious because George literally Joe George had Ontological shock when we were in that room.

It's like he's sitting there I mean he's sitting there and seeing after all this time this shits being said out loud So so what happened was The seats were kind of like designated for us because George and I were supposed to testify by the way But then common wisdom says why have these journalist guys when you can hear directly from the first-hand people and I mean we agreed

but what we did was we put on congressional record statements and people should read them if they haven't they're on congressional record I did an assessment of kind of the estimate of the situation on UFOs, but he named names and programs.

But what you're seeing there is, and I kind of had to fight for this, you know, is getting his lawyer behind him should Be like an obvious fucking thing when a guy's going up to testify under oath in front of Congress if you believe him He's speaking under whistleblower protection dude.

It was hard to get his lawyer behind him I had literally had to put the lawyer behind him So we got the lawyer behind him so he could lean in and be like careful Dave careful Which he did like a bunch of times

then there's George looking all scrunched and everybody's like why Jeremy over there?

I think people are a little afraid of me because you know a little bit of a maniac sometimes Whatever we're there Dave starts talking they ask him questions.

These weren't pre scripted or anything, you know, we're talking about what could be asked for sure But they weren't pre scripted what Dave Grush said and correct me or add to if I get this wrong Dave Grush said I did an investigation.

I was hired by, and this is a guy from the National Reconnaissance Office, the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, like this guy is, he's been in the intelligence community a long time, and he sits there under oath, and he says, I did an investigation.

I interviewed, it was my job to look at over 2,000 special access programs, like black programs.

And it was my job to find out if any of them had to do with UAP and if there's any money being hidden like misappropriated theft.

And he's like after interviewing 40 witnesses I found a ton of shit that supports this.

And I've in fact he said I found people who worked on the craft firsthand and they had to come in or they willingly came in.

He called them hostile and non-hostile witnesses.

And he's like, so I did that whole thing.

The second I did that, which was my job, I was given the job, Reprisals started happening to me.

So he smartly did a whistleblower complaint through the Presidential Protection Act 19 or something.

He got the head of the ICIG, the former head of the ICIG who's a lawyer, and he says, fuck dude, here's what I know.

Here's what people don't know is the ICIG, so the intelligence community, did their own investigation into David Grush's witnesses and what he found.

They interviewed like 40 plus under oath and immediately said David Grush's claim is both credible and urgent.

Our intelligence community did a deep dive investigation into what David Grush told them under oath in the right secure settings and they're like credible, urgent.

So David Grush can tell you the basic things that happened, but you know how he kept saying in the appropriate environment if you've got clearance we can do that.

I'm willing to give you a list of hostile and non-hostile people that worked on the craft You know biologicals he even said he's like I'll give that to you today We just got to get a skiff and we got to make sure that you have access you have clearance and he was denied a skiff that day he's

I mean, he had a career in the Air Force, served in Afghanistan, a distinguished career.

Then he goes into the intelligence community working for the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency.

He was assigned by his boss to be the liaison to the UAP task force.

That's what Congress had set it up to investigate the whole UFO matter before the current program existed.

And that guy who was in charge of the task force, Jay Stratton, gave him a job.

Go find the special access programs that are hiding UFO stuff, either siphoning millions of dollars or they've got technology, crash retrievals, reverse engineering, all the stuff that we've always heard, rumored, and he did.

Most of the juiciest stuff that he found, he can't say in an unclassified setting.

And that's something offline we'll talk about.

There have been attempts to get him silenced, unmuzzled by the way, to not do podcasts or shows and stuff right to get him muzzled by People that are trying to say he's talking outside of his dop sir, which is like what he's allowed to talk about So they're they're looking for 1 word that he says that's outside of that Like I get asked by by people in the government has he ever told you the number of crashes?

He's never told you locations like I'm gonna fucking answer you first of all second of all no he hasn't Because that would be illegal if it were to be true

So he is authorized to talk about a very limited number of things.

And they're not vouching for their authenticity.

Dobser process, which is, I don't know what it stands for, but it's like a pre-pub process.

He very smartly, because his lawyer is really smart, former ICIG, he's like, write it in what you want to talk about and see what they come back about what you can't talk about So they're not saying what he's saying is true.

They're just saying you can talk within these parameters I would like to see if what he's saying is true.

Whether you believe his claims or not, what he's doing is legal, but it is, I mean, it's a career killer, right?

Dobser says, they go through it and they make sure that things that are highly sensitive or classified, you can't say this word or this program or this name, so they kind of do it as a pre-publication thing, that's the process, does that make sense?

I wrote a book with Colm Kelleher and Jim Lekatsky about the DIA's UFO program, it took Dobser 14 months to approve our manuscript.

But also when you get pushback where people are trying to entrap him or get people to say that he said something out of school, the Dobser people are like, no, he's fine.

Like, he's talked within those parameters.

He just has to be careful to not accidentally say something that is outside of those parameters.

And right now is a very sensitive time for that, you know, immediately.

It's interesting, we met him in Huntsville, Alabama at a conference, the SCU conference.

We went down there to interview somebody else to get him on camera and we had been told this guy might, there's a guy might introduce himself and Jeremy was shooting video of me sitting at a bar at the moment that this guy walked up and introduced himself.

And then we got to know him a little bit.

A couple months later, he comes out to Las Vegas.

And he comes out because he likes Star Trek, like everybody likes Star Trek, comes out and spends 2 days with us.

The next day, he flies back Sunday night, Monday morning he reports to work.

He was suspended, his clearance was suspended.

We were worried, oh Christ, was he seen in our company and that's what happened?

But that was the beginning of his first real big trial by fire They accused him of a bunch of stuff and said that they were gonna fire him and permanently suspend his clearance

And was was he already discussing UFOs at that time?

Not not with us but he had already been investigating it on behalf of the UAP task force, and he had shared information through the whistleblower process with the Inspector General.

Yeah, let me just break it down real simple.

So here he is, he gets this job, He's looking at all these special access programs.

You know, like he's a brilliant guy in general.

And then the moment George is talking about, I kind of had heard about him.

All of a sudden, he comes up to him at this bar where we were at.

That's the first time that he talked to anybody outside of government.

Now, he didn't share anything he shouldn't, but he's kind of coming to George and then to me to say, I'm doing this whistleblower thing.

I am concerned for my safety and just in general for my career, he wanted a journalist or journalists to know, not to report on it.

So imagine that, we don't even break the story that we had before anybody, right?

So what I did, because I'm his harpoon, I did a deep dive into this guy for months and months and months.

He actually came to my home, met my family.

And I got to know him and we vetted and vetted, okay, this guy is who he says he is.

This is not some sham or something like that.

But then what happens is, what George was talking about, the second trip.

So I'm already talking at this Star Trek thing, because my friend growing up, from my Jiu-Jitsu class was Rod Roddenberry, so He's like the son of Gene Roddenberry.

So he's just like, dude, Jeremy, come talk to a bunch of Trekkies about real UFOs.

So that was a great opportunity for Dave to come and meet with us again and just talk to us, right?

Yeah, and then that Monday, when he gets back, he's walked out of the geospatial intelligence agency or NRO depending on which 1 you want to identify him with He's he's out man, and they did some bullshit on him like time card like out of 12,000 billable hours maybe there's like 30 hours somewhere where you didn't do it right.

They were doing anything they could to fuck with this guy.

So that was our first like heads up, oh dude, how this guy gets treated is gonna dictate everybody else that has come to us in private, saying I think this is illegal, what I'm doing.

Among the complaints they issued to try to take away his security clearance was that he had mental health issues.

So he was suspended for a couple of months.

They did a background investigation of his allegations, the allegations that have been made against him, and they cleared him, reinstated him, reinstated his security clearance.

He stayed on the job for a couple more months and then retired because he sees the handwriting on the wall and he left.

And that's when he started plotting the next chapter.

And now we're seeing the backlash process firing up once again.

After he testifies in front of Congress in that hearing and offers to tell them more in a classified setting and spill all the beans, they gotta find a media guy to go after him this article in the intercept

Yes, the intercept did a smash piece by the way.

We already knew all about Dave Gresh's PTSD Mm-hmm and at the time his best friend 1 of his dear friends Just talk got off the phone with him blew his own brains out right so he was like drinking He was in a bad place the first day day 1.

I talked to him I said what dirt are they gonna pull up on you?

If what you're telling me is true, they're gonna get some dirt.

And he goes, look man, I had PTSD, I dealt with it, I survived it, nothing horrible happened.

But you know, he told us day 1, man, that intercept thing was some bullshit.

They come in and they try to discredit what he said Because of his PTSD shit and the thing is that happened to Lazar like if you believe Or don't believe don't care that did happen to Lazar to where people try to discredit his character to try to minimize what he's telling You so we saw that with Dave and that was only the visible stuff I'm telling you things behind the scenes that have been done to Dave and his family It's disgusting Like not even just like pull your clearance kind of shit.

Like there are people that don't want him, that he's an embarrassment, you know, to the Department of Defense.

If what he's saying, he's coming out of school and he's saying, I saw some BS.

They not only, the intelligence community and military folks tipped off a reporter and said, go look for this.

And they found some police records of where he was drinking too much and was suicidal and and that was adjudicated.

The Department of Defense, his employers looked into it.

He was a better person, a stronger person for it.

But they leaked that information to besmirch his character and now we see additional pushback in Congress.

So this committee that held this hearing into UFO, UAP matters, was a subcommittee on national security of the Oversight Committee, the larger committee.

Since that hearing happened, the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee got together with the Chairman of the Oversight Committee and decided no more UFO hearings in the House.

We're not doing that anymore because, in their words, it could be an embarrassment to the Department of Defense.

You're damn right it would be an embarrassment for what's gonna come out.

I mean, it was a big success, you know, to have this publicly done.

It's the first time in history that we have direct witnesses like 2 pilots and then a whistleblower.

It was the first time in history, we fought for every millimeter of that territory to get that to happen.

It was not received well by the intelligence community.

You know, they did not like that that happened And that's pretty telling to me.


Speaker 0: The Joe Rogan Experience. It's the first time in history that you have Commander David Fravor, Lieutenant Ryan Graves, and then 1 whistleblower, a guy named David Grush, who we can't validate what he said because it's all classified information. But Commander Fravor, a friend of ours, he just told what happened to him. He chased the UFO. Then you've got Ryan Graves, who his whole squadron has been seeing these things.

You've had both on your podcast. But Grush stood up there, and he was very careful with his words, and I want people to know why. If you look at that setting, you're going to see right behind him was a guy named Chuck. Chuck McCullough. Chuck McCullough is the former intelligence community inspector general.

So like the cops of the intelligence community and He was right behind David Grush who is his client? So he's representing David Grush because David Grush put a whistleblower complaint He put Yeah, and look at those 2 handsome guys right there. So there's, yeah, this is the biggest conspiracy photo of all time. Can you imagine people seeing this and being like, what are those idiots doing up there with him? But so behind David- What

Speaker 1: did that

Speaker 2: dude with the beard and the glasses in the back, he looks so happy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. Yes, you're our foes.

Speaker 3: People think that that guy with the bald head is James Clapper by the way I got a bunch of

Speaker 0: yeah, it wasn't like about

Speaker 3: a bunch of comments that Clapper was looking at my notes

Speaker 0: He's just part of a Ryan's organization as a but you know, here's the deal Man this photo is kind of hilarious because George literally Joe George had Ontological shock when we were in that room. It's like he's sitting there I mean he's sitting there and seeing after all this time this shits being said out loud So so what happened was The seats were kind of like designated for us because George and I were supposed to testify by the way But then common wisdom says why have these journalist guys when you can hear directly from the first-hand people and I mean we agreed

Speaker 2: Yeah,

Speaker 0: but what we did was we put on congressional record statements and people should read them if they haven't they're on congressional record I did an assessment of kind of the estimate of the situation on UFOs, but he named names and programs. But what you're seeing there is, and I kind of had to fight for this, you know, is getting his lawyer behind him should Be like an obvious fucking thing when a guy's going up to testify under oath in front of Congress if you believe him He's speaking under whistleblower protection dude. It was hard to get his lawyer behind him I had literally had to put the lawyer behind him So we got the lawyer behind him so he could lean in and be like careful Dave careful Which he did like a bunch of times

Speaker 1: and

Speaker 0: then there's George looking all scrunched and everybody's like why Jeremy over there? We're no 1 next to him. I think people are a little afraid of me because you know a little bit of a maniac sometimes Whatever we're there Dave starts talking they ask him questions. These weren't pre scripted or anything, you know, we're talking about what could be asked for sure But they weren't pre scripted what Dave Grush said and correct me or add to if I get this wrong Dave Grush said I did an investigation. It was my job.

I was hired by, and this is a guy from the National Reconnaissance Office, the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, like this guy is, he's been in the intelligence community a long time, and he sits there under oath, and he says, I did an investigation. I interviewed, it was my job to look at over 2,000 special access programs, like black programs. And it was my job to find out if any of them had to do with UAP and if there's any money being hidden like misappropriated theft. And he's like after interviewing 40 witnesses I found a ton of shit that supports this. And I've in fact he said I found people who worked on the craft firsthand and they had to come in or they willingly came in.

He called them hostile and non-hostile witnesses. And he's like, so I did that whole thing. The second I did that, which was my job, I was given the job, Reprisals started happening to me. So he smartly did a whistleblower complaint through the Presidential Protection Act 19 or something. He got the head of the ICIG, the former head of the ICIG who's a lawyer, and he says, fuck dude, here's what I know.

Here's what people don't know is the ICIG, so the intelligence community, did their own investigation into David Grush's witnesses and what he found. They interviewed like 40 plus under oath and immediately said David Grush's claim is both credible and urgent. So it's not like just 1 guy telling you. Our intelligence community did a deep dive investigation into what David Grush told them under oath in the right secure settings and they're like credible, urgent. So David Grush can tell you the basic things that happened, but you know how he kept saying in the appropriate environment if you've got clearance we can do that.

I'm willing to give you a list of hostile and non-hostile people that worked on the craft You know biologicals he even said he's like I'll give that to you today We just got to get a skiff and we got to make sure that you have access you have clearance and he was denied a skiff that day he's

Speaker 3: He's a credible guy. He's the real deal. I mean, he had a career in the Air Force, served in Afghanistan, a distinguished career. Then he goes into the intelligence community working for the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. He was assigned by his boss to be the liaison to the UAP task force.

That's what Congress had set it up to investigate the whole UFO matter before the current program existed. And that guy who was in charge of the task force, Jay Stratton, gave him a job. Go find the special access programs that are hiding UFO stuff, either siphoning millions of dollars or they've got technology, crash retrievals, reverse engineering, all the stuff that we've always heard, rumored, and he did. He found it. Most of the juiciest stuff that he found, he can't say in an unclassified setting.

It has to be, because they will get him. They will bust his ass if they can. They've already tried.

Speaker 0: You know, it's 4 times. And that's something offline we'll talk about. There have been attempts to get him silenced, unmuzzled by the way, to not do podcasts or shows and stuff right to get him muzzled by People that are trying to say he's talking outside of his dop sir, which is like what he's allowed to talk about So they're they're looking for 1 word that he says that's outside of that Like I get asked by by people in the government has he ever told you the number of crashes? He's never told you locations like I'm gonna fucking answer you first of all second of all no he hasn't Because that would be illegal if it were to be true

Speaker 2: So he is authorized to talk about a very limited number of things.

Speaker 3: Is that correct?

Speaker 0: And they're not vouching for their authenticity. Dobser process, which is, I don't know what it stands for, but it's like a pre-pub process. He very smartly, because his lawyer is really smart, former ICIG, he's like, write it in what you want to talk about and see what they come back about what you can't talk about So they're not saying what he's saying is true. They're just saying you can talk within these parameters I would like to see if what he's saying is true. So we just need that option

Speaker 1: So who gives him the authority

Speaker 2: to talk about these things?

Speaker 0: No 1 gives him the authority. He's taking that all on himself. He's a true whistleblower. Whether you believe his claims or not, what he's doing is legal, but it is, I mean, it's a career killer, right? Dobser says, they go through it and they make sure that things that are highly sensitive or classified, you can't say this word or this program or this name, so they kind of do it as a pre-publication thing, that's the process, does that make sense?

Speaker 3: I wrote a book with Colm Kelleher and Jim Lekatsky about the DIA's UFO program, it took Dobser 14 months to approve our manuscript. So they take their time.

Speaker 0: They take their time. But also when you get pushback where people are trying to entrap him or get people to say that he said something out of school, the Dobser people are like, no, he's fine. Like, he's talked within those parameters. He just has to be careful to not accidentally say something that is outside of those parameters. And right now is a very sensitive time for that, you know, immediately.

Speaker 3: It's interesting, we met him in Huntsville, Alabama at a conference, the SCU conference. It's a UFO event. We went down there to interview somebody else to get him on camera and we had been told this guy might, there's a guy might introduce himself and Jeremy was shooting video of me sitting at a bar at the moment that this guy walked up and introduced himself. So he had that moment on camera. And then we got to know him a little bit.

A couple months later, he comes out to Las Vegas. There was a Star Trek convention. We were going to speak at it. And he comes out because he likes Star Trek, like everybody likes Star Trek, comes out and spends 2 days with us. The next day, he flies back Sunday night, Monday morning he reports to work.

Armed security guards escort him out. He was suspended, his clearance was suspended. We were worried, oh Christ, was he seen in our company and that's what happened? But that was the beginning of his first real big trial by fire They accused him of a bunch of stuff and said that they were gonna fire him and permanently suspend his clearance

Speaker 2: And was was he already discussing UFOs at that time?

Speaker 3: Not not with us but he had already been investigating it on behalf of the UAP task force, and he had shared information through the whistleblower process with the Inspector General.

Speaker 0: Yeah, let me just break it down real simple. So here he is, he gets this job, He's looking at all these special access programs. He's a fucking brilliant guy. He's a physicist by the way. You know, like he's a brilliant guy in general.

So he discovers all this shit. He starts getting reprisals. And then the moment George is talking about, I kind of had heard about him. All of a sudden, he comes up to him at this bar where we were at. That's the first time that he talked to anybody outside of government.

Now, he didn't share anything he shouldn't, but he's kind of coming to George and then to me to say, I'm doing this whistleblower thing. I am concerned for my safety and just in general for my career, he wanted a journalist or journalists to know, not to report on it. So imagine that, we don't even break the story that we had before anybody, right? So what I did, because I'm his harpoon, I did a deep dive into this guy for months and months and months. He actually came to my home, met my family.

And I got to know him and we vetted and vetted, okay, this guy is who he says he is. He's 100% who he says he is. So we kinda got that layer of trust. This is not some sham or something like that. But then what happens is, what George was talking about, the second trip.

So I'm already talking at this Star Trek thing, because my friend growing up, from my Jiu-Jitsu class was Rod Roddenberry, so He's like the son of Gene Roddenberry. So he's just like, dude, Jeremy, come talk to a bunch of Trekkies about real UFOs. And I'm like, cool, I'll do it. It's in Georgia's hometown. So that was a great opportunity for Dave to come and meet with us again and just talk to us, right?

Yeah, and then that Monday, when he gets back, he's walked out of the geospatial intelligence agency or NRO depending on which 1 you want to identify him with He's he's out man, and they did some bullshit on him like time card like out of 12,000 billable hours maybe there's like 30 hours somewhere where you didn't do it right. They were doing anything they could to fuck with this guy. So that was our first like heads up, oh dude, how this guy gets treated is gonna dictate everybody else that has come to us in private, saying I think this is illegal, what I'm doing.

Speaker 3: Right. Among the complaints they issued to try to take away his security clearance was that he had mental health issues. So he was suspended for a couple of months. They did a background investigation of his allegations, the allegations that have been made against him, and they cleared him, reinstated him, reinstated his security clearance. He stayed on the job for a couple more months and then retired because he sees the handwriting on the wall and he left.

And that's when he started plotting the next chapter. And now we're seeing the backlash process firing up once again. After he testifies in front of Congress in that hearing and offers to tell them more in a classified setting and spill all the beans, they gotta find a media guy to go after him this article in the intercept

Speaker 0: Yes, the intercept did a smash piece by the way. We already knew all about Dave Gresh's PTSD Mm-hmm and at the time his best friend 1 of his dear friends Just talk got off the phone with him blew his own brains out right so he was like drinking He was in a bad place the first day day 1. I talked to him I said what dirt are they gonna pull up on you? If what you're telling me is true, they're gonna get some dirt. And he goes, look man, I had PTSD, I dealt with it, I survived it, nothing horrible happened.

But you know, he told us day 1, man, that intercept thing was some bullshit. They come in and they try to discredit what he said Because of his PTSD shit and the thing is that happened to Lazar like if you believe Or don't believe don't care that did happen to Lazar to where people try to discredit his character to try to minimize what he's telling You so we saw that with Dave and that was only the visible stuff I'm telling you things behind the scenes that have been done to Dave and his family It's disgusting Like not even just like pull your clearance kind of shit. Like there are people that don't want him, that he's an embarrassment, you know, to the Department of Defense. If what he's saying, he's coming out of school and he's saying, I saw some BS.

Speaker 3: Like, they don't want that. So we are in a pushback phase. They not only, the intelligence community and military folks tipped off a reporter and said, go look for this. And they found some police records of where he was drinking too much and was suicidal and and that was adjudicated. It was looked at.

The Department of Defense, his employers looked into it. He'd gone through treatment. He got past it. He was a better person, a stronger person for it. But they leaked that information to besmirch his character and now we see additional pushback in Congress.

So this committee that held this hearing into UFO, UAP matters, was a subcommittee on national security of the Oversight Committee, the larger committee. Since that hearing happened, the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee got together with the Chairman of the Oversight Committee and decided no more UFO hearings in the House. Enough of that bullshit. We're not doing that anymore because, in their words, it could be an embarrassment to the Department of Defense. You're damn right it would be an embarrassment for what's gonna come out.

Speaker 0: I mean, it was a big success, you know, to have this publicly done. It's the first time in history that we have direct witnesses like 2 pilots and then a whistleblower. It was the first time in history, we fought for every millimeter of that territory to get that to happen. It was not received well by the intelligence community. You know, they did not like that that happened And that's pretty telling to me.

We should do

Speaker 1: it again. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing.

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UFO Investigator's on the David Grusch Hearings