Taken from JRE MMA Show #148 w/Bernard Hopkins:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Mnn8w6WIEYh2Q1QBhdUyi?si=c1b7928b05c6418a

When I understood my value in that penitentiary at 17, when I got certified at 17, 5 to 15, subtract 5 out of 15 in state prison, that leaves you to back time, to walk off, call parole.

They had a boxing gym there and all of the Pennsylvania prisons, which was 30 plus, had boxing in their penitentiary.

That was part of baseball, flag football, handball on the wall.

That sparked, That flame came back from little short amateur career I had.

That's how I built my reputation up in my neighborhood.

I always fought, fight in the streets, fighting in school.

How old were you when you first boxed as an amateur?

My uncle took me to the gym my mother's brother because my father had a brother that boxed too And they all was my weight.

I was all their weight when I started middleweight My uncle's on both sides of the tree mother and father Boxed at middleweight in the 60s 70s early 70s.

So it's in my DNA right can't help myself It's who I am and who I became But I got back to it When I went to the penitentiary

when you were an amateur, did you were you taking it seriously or were you?

I was eating everything that anybody else was eating at that age in the neighborhood and what was there.

I mean, I remember fighting and getting a trophy about this big.

Plastic trophy, but to me that was like a gold medal.

they got the trophies showing everybody in your neighborhood and the elementary school I was at.

And they take you to, I don't wanna get no free commercials, but they take you to this, still around, you know, to get a hamburger, french fries, and you probably know, you know, to take you there.

Amateur program, but it was like the POW, right?

I don't know if they have it here in Texas, the PAL, called the Police Athletic League.

So the POW League was structured to get young, black, urban men that's on the corner, or young boys, right, to go to PAL.

Anybody can go there, but mostly it was in our neighborhood.

They would come to the gym and you can sign up for amateur boxing, you could be Olympic gold medal.

But I had family members, it was in my DNA.

Once I was taken to the gym by Artie McLeod, we call him Artie, but it was Arthur McLeod, called him Moose, my mother's brother, middleweight, bad-ass, look him up, Artie McLeod.

The streets took his career, obviously based on what?

The streets of Philadelphia, the blue-collar town worker.

Philadelphia can make you or break you when it comes to making it out of there, right?

Not only sports, any entertainer, any success that you might have on your back in the community, and again, feel you just love there.

But a lot of us don't make it out even though the talent was better than mine.

The trap of the streets, but they're also what you're used to doing and what you're used to thinking.

Listen, until I traveled through boxing, tell you how much boxing did for me.

To travel around the world multiple times, meet multiple people from every class of life that I believe, you know, I'm pretty sure is people I haven't met, but from here to there to status or power or influence, influencers, I say, man, the world ain't just North Philly.

The world is not just Raymond Rosen projects.

So I start understanding now, like, even sitting there watching at that time how the fork and the spoon and the butter knife is on 1 side of the table.

And I'm looking, I'm like, look, this guy's taking a nap and putting it on the floor.

I mean, this might sound ignorant, but you got to understand from that mindset of what I'm saying.

Not understand my experience because some haven't.

Just like in the boxing business, I started paying attention.

Then once I got to the point where I had a voice, means I had to do something in boxing.

I had 10 and 1, because I lost my first fight.

I was out for 9 months, out of penitentiary.

I wanted to get right back in the ring before I grabbed a kilo of cocaine like everybody was selling in the 80s and 90s.

A, everybody, listen, anybody on the West Coast, Sydney's coast, know the 80 and the 90 era, right?

The 80 and 90 era in urban city was get down or lay down.

Push and experience that I had to do something to make her proud To make her proud once I get out still got years to do how many years do I do 5 5 to 15 Subtract 5 out of 15 the way the Pennsylvania Parole Board works, if you get out, on your minimum is 5, you can do the 15.

Get into a stabbing, get write-ups, do something in there that can be a crime too.

So I had to walk a straight line amongst Chaos.

Everybody, 90% of people there, they know why they there.

That moment, after that first year of establishing myself, filling out the environment of who you deal with, who you stay away from, who to snitch, What guard, what CO is good, what CO is not.

Most of the COs live in the same neighborhood you grew up at.

It was the brother of your uncle, friend.

Who never had a felony so he got a filler application, he got a job, and then he's the CO.

Hey CO, can I get an extra commissary, whatever?

So you're not really protected by nobody because anybody can sell you out or do a favor.

What I'm trying to understand is just physically I understand that you didn't party I understand that you're very disciplined but how are you physically able to compete at that level deep in your 40s?

Because everybody else is doing what everybody else has been doing.

What were you doing different physically?

Physically, I was always, even to the day, I pay attention to what I put in my body is who I am, not what I actually look like.

And I understood that most people that I seen in my time in boxing.

Florida's disciplined the same way, don't drink, don't smoke, and be sitting right there in the club and everybody doing everything else.

But genetics plays, my grandmother lived to 99.

But then again, do I really take all the eggs and put it in that basket because my father and mother died before 60.

So I would say the lifestyle, I would say the mindset or the teachings are both, hit, not get hit, you know, read books a lot, do something to exercise your brain, take care of your physical body.

The penitentiary, The penitentiary taught me more going there once I got there to understand what I wanted to do.

I wasn't just lifting weights in a weight yard and be swole up around a bunch of men for 5 years, I went and understood that, A, after a year went by, they got a boxing program.

I wanted to get off the block to go to another block, and the guard, CO, said, where you going, Wild 41, 45?

Hey, I'm going to the gym, but I'm trying to go on a block to hang out before count to go back on my block.

If I don't do it, if I don't get over it before count, I get a write up.

So I was forced to go down to the gym and seeing people sparring and I said, I want to be a part of that.

And I got my ass beaten lesson, and I didn't like it, and I've never been afraid to go in the gym again.

30 years later, I said I would never go in a ring or any situation ill-repaired or unrepaired.

That lesson that I said to you then and I'll say to you now, being in that institution, having that experience, going in that gym for the first time and say after a year went by and only by accident that I went down at gym because I was headed to another block as I said earlier and then get down at gym because boxing was in the penitentiaries in that era we had boxing there attached to the AAU which is the same thing they have outside.

They used to bring young fighters in there to fight us.

You buy a ticket at the commissary, you go to the fights that Friday and inmates watch you root for you I didn't like how I felt I wasn't prepared he didn't beat me because I wasn't better I got beat because I didn't run.

I got beat because as they say the word hater, that I go down there and say, how he are?

Yeah, come on, I used to box when I was in the streets.

I used to do this when I was in the street.

But those same old head trainers that had double life or 1 life sentence or 2 life sentence, they spoke about me on Behind the Glory, Brian Gumbel, look it up, it's out there.

They spoke about me when I visit that same prison in my early professional career.

Sparring for my Atlantic City preliminary fights when I was building my record to get to where I became a champion.

I became the USBA champion, which is a sister of the IBF World Championship belt I Left that institution Anyone would have ran much far as as far as they could they'd Iran so far from that place and never want to see it again.

But after 6 to 7 months of coming from a first professional loss with Clinton Mitchell in Atlantic City, look it up.

I took off 89 and 90, the streets was grabbing me.

I still had 7 and a half years parole, do the math, 9 years.

I rebooted my first fight, I believe it was in 91, 90 and 91.

But that crucial moment, that year and a half, if you look up my record, you'll see Clinton Mitchell, 89, inactive.

I made a decision, meeting an old guy named Bowie Fisher.

He should be in the Hall of Fame because of me.

Very few trainers go in the Hall of Fame with 1 Hall of Famer or fighter.

The fighter gets in, but the trainer might not.

And I'm not saying it's bad or good, I'm just saying that's how it goes.


Speaker 0: The Joe Rogan Experience. When I understood my value in that penitentiary at 17, when I got certified at 17, 5 to 15, subtract 5 out of 15 in state prison, that leaves you to back time, to walk off, call parole. They had a boxing gym there and all of the Pennsylvania prisons, which was 30 plus, had boxing in their penitentiary. That was part of baseball, flag football, handball on the wall. That sparked, That flame came back from little short amateur career I had.

That's how I built my reputation up in my neighborhood. I always fought, fight in the streets, fighting in school.

Speaker 1: How old were you when you first boxed as an amateur? Like when did you first walk

Speaker 0: in the gym? 9 years old. My uncle took me to the gym my mother's brother because my father had a brother that boxed too And they all was my weight. Well. I was all their weight when I started middleweight My uncle's on both sides of the tree mother and father Boxed at middleweight in the 60s 70s early 70s.

So it's in my DNA right can't help myself It's who I am and who I became But I got back to it When I went to the penitentiary

Speaker 1: when you were an amateur, did you were you taking it seriously or were you? No, I wasn't taking it seriously. You weren't fully committed.

Speaker 0: I was eating everything that anybody else was eating at that age in the neighborhood and what was there. I mean, I remember fighting and getting a trophy about this big. It's always the same stance, right? Plastic trophy, but to me that was like a gold medal.

Speaker 1: You know,

Speaker 0: they got the trophies showing everybody in your neighborhood and the elementary school I was at. And they take you to, I don't wanna get no free commercials, but they take you to this, still around, you know, to get a hamburger, french fries, and you probably know, you know, to take you there. We happy. That was it. Amateur program, but it was like the POW, right?

I don't know if they have it here in Texas, the PAL, called the Police Athletic League. It's big over there in East Coast. So the POW League was structured to get young, black, urban men that's on the corner, or young boys, right, to go to PAL. Anybody can go there, but mostly it was in our neighborhood. They would come to the gym and you can sign up for amateur boxing, you could be Olympic gold medal.

You can do this and do that. But I had family members, it was in my DNA. Once I was taken to the gym by Artie McLeod, we call him Artie, but it was Arthur McLeod, called him Moose, my mother's brother, middleweight, bad-ass, look him up, Artie McLeod. The streets took his career, obviously based on what? Lifestyle.

The streets of Philadelphia, the blue-collar town worker. Philadelphia can make you or break you when it comes to making it out of there, right? Not only sports, any entertainer, any success that you might have on your back in the community, and again, feel you just love there. But a lot of us don't make it out even though the talent was better than mine. Strong, strong, right?

Speaker 1: The trap of the streets.

Speaker 0: The trap of the streets, but they're also what you're used to doing and what you're used to thinking. Listen, until I traveled through boxing, tell you how much boxing did for me. To travel around the world multiple times, meet multiple people from every class of life that I believe, you know, I'm pretty sure is people I haven't met, but from here to there to status or power or influence, influencers, I say, man, the world ain't just North Philly. The world is not just Raymond Rosen projects. So I start understanding now, like, even sitting there watching at that time how the fork and the spoon and the butter knife is on 1 side of the table.

And I'm looking, I'm like, look, this guy's taking a nap and putting it on the floor. I think he's putting on his lap. I mean, this might sound ignorant, but you got to understand from that mindset of what I'm saying. Not understand my experience because some haven't. But I start paying attention.

That was the key. Just like in the boxing business, I started paying attention. Then once I got to the point where I had a voice, means I had to do something in boxing. Nobody cares if you consider it nobody. I had 10 and 1, because I lost my first fight.

Atlantic City to Clinton Mitchell. I was out for 9 months, out of penitentiary. I wanted to get right back in the ring before I grabbed a kilo of cocaine like everybody was selling in the 80s and 90s.

Speaker 1: That was the plan?

Speaker 0: I had a choice to do 1 or the other. Right. A, everybody, listen, anybody on the West Coast, Sydney's coast, know the 80 and the 90 era, right? The 80 and 90 era in urban city was get down or lay down. 84, I was booked.

84, my brother got killed. Shirley Mae Hopkins lost 2 sons in 84. Talking about trauma. That was a key, key, key... Push and experience that I had to do something to make her proud To make her proud once I get out still got years to do how many years do I do 5 5 to 15 Subtract 5 out of 15 the way the Pennsylvania Parole Board works, if you get out, on your minimum is 5, you can do the 15.

Get into a stabbing, get write-ups, do something in there that can be a crime too. The 5 is the minimum. The 15th is the max. So I had to walk a straight line amongst Chaos. No confusion.

Everybody, 90% of people there, they know why they there. Fuck what they say. They know why they there. That moment, after that first year of establishing myself, filling out the environment of who you deal with, who you stay away from, who to snitch, What guard, what CO is good, what CO is not. Most of the COs live in the same neighborhood you grew up at.

It was the brother of your uncle, friend. Who never had a felony so he got a filler application, he got a job, and then he's the CO. I know your dad, okay, thanks. Hey CO, can I get an extra commissary, whatever? So you're not really protected by nobody because anybody can sell you out or do a favor.

Speaker 1: What I'm trying to understand is just physically I understand that you didn't party I understand that you're very disciplined but how are you physically able to compete at that level deep in your 40s?

Speaker 0: Because again, lifestyle, talent,

Speaker 1: but everybody else

Speaker 0: falls apart. Because everybody else is doing what everybody else has been doing. What were you doing different physically? Physically, I was always, even to the day, I pay attention to what I put in my body is who I am, not what I actually look like. And I understood that most people that I seen in my time in boxing.

Florida's disciplined the same way, don't drink, don't smoke, and be sitting right there in the club and everybody doing everything else. You heard that before, it's all over. You got those type people like that. But genetics plays, my grandmother lived to 99. But then again, do I really take all the eggs and put it in that basket because my father and mother died before 60.

So I would say the lifestyle, I would say the mindset or the teachings are both, hit, not get hit, you know, read books a lot, do something to exercise your brain, take care of your physical body. The penitentiary, The penitentiary taught me more going there once I got there to understand what I wanted to do. I wasn't just lifting weights in a weight yard and be swole up around a bunch of men for 5 years, I went and understood that, A, after a year went by, they got a boxing program. I wanted to get off the block to go to another block, and the guard, CO, said, where you going, Wild 41, 45? Hey, I'm going to the gym, but I'm trying to go on a block to hang out before count to go back on my block.

If I don't do it, if I don't get over it before count, I get a write up. So I was forced to go down to the gym and seeing people sparring and I said, I want to be a part of that. And I got my ass beaten lesson, and I didn't like it, and I've never been afraid to go in the gym again. 30 years later, I said I would never go in a ring or any situation ill-repaired or unrepaired. I always go in there prepared.

That lesson that I said to you then and I'll say to you now, being in that institution, having that experience, going in that gym for the first time and say after a year went by and only by accident that I went down at gym because I was headed to another block as I said earlier and then get down at gym because boxing was in the penitentiaries in that era we had boxing there attached to the AAU which is the same thing they have outside. They used to bring young fighters in there to fight us. They're amateurs. Have shows for the inmates. You buy a ticket at the commissary, you go to the fights that Friday and inmates watch you root for you I didn't like how I felt I wasn't prepared he didn't beat me because I wasn't better I got beat because I didn't run.

I got beat because of the ego. I got beat because as they say the word hater, that I go down there and say, how he are? You wanna get in there with him? Yeah, come on, I used to box when I was in the streets. You know, that's the common talk.

I used to do this when I was in the street. Okay. But those same old head trainers that had double life or 1 life sentence or 2 life sentence, they spoke about me on Behind the Glory, Brian Gumbel, look it up, it's out there. They spoke about me when I visit that same prison in my early professional career. Guess what?

Doing what? Sparring for my Atlantic City preliminary fights when I was building my record to get to where I became a champion. I became the USBA champion, which is a sister of the IBF World Championship belt I Left that institution Anyone would have ran much far as as far as they could they'd Iran so far from that place and never want to see it again. But after 6 to 7 months of coming from a first professional loss with Clinton Mitchell in Atlantic City, look it up. I took off 89 and 90, the streets was grabbing me.

I still had 7 and a half years parole, do the math, 9 years. I rebooted my first fight, I believe it was in 91, 90 and 91. But that crucial moment, that year and a half, if you look up my record, you'll see Clinton Mitchell, 89, inactive. 89 inactive, 90 inactive, 91. What was happening in 16 months?

I made a decision, meeting an old guy named Bowie Fisher. Guy with a sissel. He won a champ, we won championships. He should be in the Hall of Fame because of me. I'm already in there.

I'm the only fighter he ever had. Very few trainers go in the Hall of Fame with 1 Hall of Famer or fighter. The fighter gets in, but the trainer might not. And I'm not saying it's bad or good, I'm just saying that's how it goes.

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Bernard Hopkins on How Prison Prepared Him for Boxing