As I mentioned, there are a series of questions that I have not been able to answer.

Some can be more theoretical, others can be more practical.

So, We will take them 1 by 1 and we will see what comes out of this.

Until now, you mentioned the innovations that you have developed.

I would like to ask you If at the level of innovation in mental health, what other innovations do you know at the moment?

If you know other successful projects that have had a start.

It's a well-known site and app and it's quite used.

Sorry, was the question about the problem with them or just if we know?

Their main innovations is that they were the first application of this kind that gamifies the organization and habit adoption and planning.

I think everyone here is aware of I'm Fine.

As far as I understand, they have reached a point where they consider it to be functional and that it is up to them to continue with it.

Another cool app I know is Respiro, which will bring a lot of this guided meditation, breathing, stuff like that, to be more accessible from this point of view.

I also know projects in the mental health part, when it comes to sexual identity.

To do things in this direction, to do informative materials, to organize workshops on sexual identity and things like that.

And the rest, virtual therapy applications, so to speak, in which you connect with therapists and through the application and you have the material there.

Like you, if you think about it, I'll tell you more.

I hope that over time I have come into contact with more start-ups that were doing something in this area of health, for sure, hundreds.

In the area of mental health, clearly less, but I would guess that about 20, in principle.

From the marketplace where you connect with therapists, to some event aggregators, as I have seen, while researching and during the spirit, I have given myself continuous tools.

I also discussed with research projects from UBB, such as Refink, and there were 2-3 projects in a program called Research Valorization, which I held together with the University of Aderes about 2 years ago, or a year ago, sorry.

But, yes, also in the VR area, with the improvement, that is, the resolution of phobias through VR, and in the area of oncology, there are many that have a mental health impact, because it's about sports groups.

We can talk later, I'll give you contacts if you need them.

Applications with facial recognition, which could read your state and at that moment give you a suggestion on the screen, I don't know, to relax, to breathe, to get up, maybe you need a break.

I would like to start with these innovations.

We notice that some innovations are more focused on digitalization, on AI, as far as we can see, this is a trend we are working with at the moment.

And I would like to ask you, what policies exist that support the development of digital and AI technologies for innovations in mental health.

What policies do you support in this digitalization?

Anything that is in the direction of the government, if there in national programs that support the product.

The digitization programs, recently there was a project opened until June 30, it could be applied in the digitization area.

It could be applied from micro-entrepreneurs to large companies.

I know that Micro could receive funding of 30, 000 euros.

That is, at the value of a project of 33, 000 euros,

But it was in the digitalization sphere and now another project is starting, in this region, where we are entering, but maybe it is also in other regions, I don't know.

And it is a project in the area of digitalization.

Now it is in the phase where the funding guide appears and anything related to this area can

Now, I would like to ask you from your practice, does this digitalization component implicate innovation?

Or are there 2 things that don't necessarily overlap?

Now, If we talk about the digitalization financing line, for example, which has just been closed, from my point of view, which I read the guide and I can understand it well, because I had experiences with European financing projects, it did not necessarily involve innovation.

I mean, there was the emphasis and the way in which all the criteria had to be met in order to be eligible and to get an OK score on the digitalization project, it didn't necessarily involve innovation.

Rather, from my point of view, it could have been a head-turner, as a practitioner.

I mean, apart from the fact that you could develop a platform, you couldn't do much.

Or, you could have taken things in cyber security, but that means you already have a fairly advanced idea.

In Romania, the policies are actually at a very, very beginner level.

If we look at European policies, there, innovation and digitization in health is already a little higher.

It is starting to take shape, slowly, because there is a pressure coming, because the European funds are being received, there is also the pressure from the European Commission to start implementing the things in our country, in the health that is being debated and I hope, I mean,

be approved and then to appear in the application forms of the law, is the part of telemedicine, which should be recognized in our country and implemented.

All the ideas of consultations, regardless of whether they are medical or connected services, psychology, on, can be legally agreed on, speaking and at a distance.

This is where my question came from, if digitization is at the same time overlapping with innovation, given that Romania still has factories that are digitized abroad, but are not necessarily innovations at the global level, such as telemedicine, which is practiced in many countries.

What politicians do you know who regulate these technological innovations related to mental health.

But here I am referring to regulations starting from confidentiality, data protection, commercial interests.

Do you know if there is anything on the part of innovations?

Știți dacă există ceva pe partea de inovații?

Dedicat pe zona de mental health nu, doar generaliste.

Dar aș fi foarte curios pentru că aș fi necolotat în finanțare.

But I would be very curious because we also

Yes, As I said before, there are certain gaps that we identified, and the fact that we don't have answers today means that there are some reasons behind why we don't have answers in today's discussion.

Either there is, but there is no transparency or dissemination of information, or maybe it doesn't exist and we are developing, or maybe, who knows, it's not necessary, we can turn in many directions.

So I would like to move the conversation a little bit to the role of the public space in the provisioning of technologies related to innovations.

What role does the public sector play in helping in the provisioning of technologies?

At least the mental health startups that have a tech component, so to speak.

I think that people do don't expect the public sector to provide resources, they are more dependent and they are busy waiting for the resources to come.

So, we are not exactly appealing to the public sector for resources on the part of innovation.

Then we go in the other direction, namely, what is the role of the private sector in the innovation of Mental Health?

The private sector sometimes finances start-ups of Mental Health, but there are some KPIs of business and financial outcome, and then, many times, if a startup has a business model, it comes to the point of skeptical private investors to finance, and we have seen this in a few cases in the last 2-3 years, of start-ups that sought financing.

For example, Regina Maria bought the application from the clinic Nicolaos, or something like that, I don't know, a year ago, 2 years ago.

So it's a business circuit that I see in general, a funded, acquired startup, to apply to this area as well.

Examples are starting to appear, including events that are hackathons organized in various communities, which can have an impact in the field of mental health.

So, the trend now, I think it may not be so visible outside, but being involved in the state ecosystem, I see that it is a fairly large growth.

I see these aspects from the private sector, coming to Mental Health Innovation.

Now, Universities are public in general, and many projects are being built there, but the question is how many of them go to the market and have an impact in the business world.

I think there are some blockages in the technology transfer to the market from research, at least in Romania.

And I think the associations of patients, I don't know how many years ago, about 5 years ago we did a hackathon with the association of chronic patients and here, this part of mental health, of emotions, of anxiety, is very strong, besides the illness that everyone has.

Some ideas were born there, but I think they were not continued for more than 6 months.

This helps me, as I saw this part of what is the role.

Now, considering that we mentioned that we do not expect so much that the public sector to come with certain resources.

We don't know now to answer to what is his role, what should be the role of the public space to support the innovations in mental health.

Maybe so, from a slightly educated perspective, and mental health.

Maybe from an uneducated perspective, I think that the public sector is better off with resources, with financing and things like that.

I mean, until now, the startup founder is trying to identify, or at least he should be trying to identify something that can be sold on a market, how to structure his services so that he has business sense, and then he has the responsibility to find a fit between the product and the market, to be the founder and the public sector to give him resources to practice.

So you have a system where you can give him limited resources, but if you let him manage to increase the level of resources, it's still the same.

So, the resources for the development of innovation and its support.

What other actions should the public have to play a relevant role in this?

What I see from above are certain media that are still underdeveloped and where private accounts are not yet being used.

Public funds because the private sector is less involved, except the pharma area, where there are many resources, but the risk appetite on the business side is lower when it comes to TLRs,

low readiness levels technologies, and then I noticed that public funds were going there or when it comes to that, start a startup and access some grants as they did and Calmly or others and then private investors, when they consolidate their startup, have a little more research than when they start investing.

But at the beginning, the risk is too high.

And this happens, at least in Eastern Europe.

The risk is perceived by investors is just

I liked that you brought the conversation to how an innovation reaches the market and how it resists more.

So, compared to the innovations that you have developed, how have they been scaled?

How is this process of scaling innovation in Romania?

As I told you, it all started from an idea and from a networking between the faculty and a PhD student who wanted to develop a certain direction and he wants to use his work.

The pandemic came and he had to reorient himself, because we couldn't test the things developed on patients, we weren't allowed.

And there it was interrupted, effectively interrupted.

We were already developing more than half of the project, we were going to test it, on our own funds, on the funds of the company, as it were, and we were left with the project at half, so to speak.

And I said, let's continue it, this is the first break I had.

And I said, let's continue it, let's move on, Let's push things to happen.

I got in touch again, I was sent to some NGOs where we can test things, the pandemic has slowly dissolved And I got in touch with some people from psychology and with some therapists, who actually guided us and brought a solid contribution to develop functionalities Because, being IT, we couldn't extract what a therapist needs, for example, to lead a project like this and to innovate in this direction.

It was a long discussion and it was like it was never ending, you know?

It's a discussion and you have to extract certain things.

I said, look, let's take 3 projects, not 10.000 ideas that came out of a brainstorming, let's take 3 ideas and then we find their value and see in what direction they go.

The first idea I came up with was the first phase of the project, to effectively recognize the emotions and to transmit them to more people and to take this part of the therapy and to take it to the level where we can explore to children what would help.

Their process was, I'll tell you so, I don't want to go into detail, the process is still there.

There are some prints with several types of faces, in laughter, fury and all kinds of emotions, presented, which children had to recognize and learn step by step.

And if the gender was changed, it was no longer recognized.

And I transferred all these emotions to a 3D friendly character, which I developed according to the level of the spectrum that each of them had.

What we didn't realize from the very beginning, and this is what helped us when we reached the ONG level, we were told that the therapy for learning emotions happens at the age of

and we were developing applications for virtual reality.

Imagine a 3-year-old who puts on a virtual reality helmet.

Everything was broken then, and I said, I don't want to say the word, we had to think about this from the very beginning.

The application was left in the ground, the first phase was left in the ground because there are children at 12 years old, who have a much higher level, as I was saying, and they are the ones who learn the emotions.

So, it can be used, but the spectrum narrows and its usefulness.

This was the first phase of collaboration.

The second phase of collaboration, we started to extract some functionalities based on their direct needs, and this was the need of the streets, it was an effective need.

I said, what is the most, the most, the most?

Imagine that in this field you need a lot of agreements to do a therapy outside the space.

Agreements from parents, agreements, there are a lot of signed papers, and the parents don't really agree to take the child out of the space.

Let's do something, let's teach the children to cross the street.

And I replicated everything that means in 3D environment.

A street, with positioning, with more detailed elements, less detailed elements that the therapist has to choose according to.

All these things have been extracted in time, effectively, I think in the course of about 3 months, whatever, whatever, what are the colors, which are the ones that do not match, which are rejected, which are accepted, it is a very long process in this field of extracts, effectively, of what you need in that application.

Se fie, cum sa nu fie, care sunt culorile, care sunt cele care nu se potrivesc, care sunt respinse, care sunt acceptate, e un proces foarte lung in domeniul asta de extras efectiv de ce ai nevoie in aplicatie respectiva' What was innovative about this was that it never happened before at their level, a communication like this, where they have a direct contribution to the development of an application as a functionality, to develop an application as a feature, not knowing that this part is a feature that has to exist.

We went and participated in some therapy sessions to understand what they need in the app and what they lack.

With the pixel and the pen in hand, we extracted, we were in a corner, imagine that we didn't have to do anything, we didn't exist, and we extracted all these functionalities, step by step then we validated them, and we saw that there was something going on, and these discussions

the client's choice between developing something or not

The need is to open up from both sides in order to develop something.

If you go over that threshold, things can already work.

We adapted after them, they adapted after us, and so on.

This part, this threshold, is very important in developing and innovating.

Because there are different domains, I'm talking about IT with this field now, but there are other fields as well.

That's why I say, maybe the public sector should return to what I said, that should be the opener of the roads, to open the links between these directions, to hold all kinds of conferences, to hold all kinds of happenings, all kinds of things where both sides are invited, the public sector with the private 1, with the education 1, the public sector, the private sector, the education sector, if all these things are not put in the same direction, they will not work, they just can't.

Someone should come to you and tell you to do something.

And then, these things don't happen by themselves.

Adica ar trebui să vină cineva ca tine ca restul să zică hai să facem ceva.

Și atunci, na, lucrurile astea nu se întâmplă

Poate astea ar trebui să fie preluate de partea publică în care știe efectiv ce domenii ar trebui și cum ar putea fi făcute.

I don't know what fields should be and how they could be done.

It helps me a lot that you told me all the process that you went through to develop the whole product.

It seems a bit difficult to imagine in Romania that the public system can realize which are the directions without consulting with the private sector.

We have also seen this model of community building on various verticals.

The problem is that, and it is very nice that it could be supported by public financing or public efforts, The problem is that it's not developing, but it's hard to develop a sustainable business model.

You have to identify needs, to organize community events, to make maps, for example.

And in general, I don't really know how this can work.

years until we got the first funding, in which there was a voluntary effort.

Now things are moving faster, but in the period of

it was simply a voluntary work, and then we saw what can be done now, organizations with more projects, with financing, with national impact, things are growing.

But it doesn't happen so fast, because there are no funds dedicated to the community, and information transparency, because once the information is public, once we are included in a group like this, we can easily connect, we can see each other's interests and we can do things together.

But until we get there, it's a kind of volunteer work without public funds.

Until then, we just meet out of the goodwill of the soul to talk about these things and to try to address them in various directions that are more relevant.

I have focused more on startups, and I realize that it's not just about startups.

It's organizations, patient associations, so in many ways innovation can be done, not just through technology.

You know, to have a street that is pedestrianized and has many plants and shrubs where people can sit, I think it is being experimented here on Potaisa Street in Cluj, or where they can have a socialization meeting in the evening, I think this is also a social innovation, not a technological 1.

We mapped a series of innovations in mental health, and to complete your idea, we have actually launched the mentoring project from Preventis, which is based on the offering of a mentor, a person who is a substance user, which is a new approach, it is not therapeutic, it is not technology, but it is a social and community practice, which if it is well implemented, helps a lot of people.

That's just to give an example of what we identified.

Okay, an addition, I was just working on the map on the mental health startup, ajuta foarte multă persoane.

Asta doar ca să dau un exemplu de ce am identificat noi.

harta pe startup-urile de Mental Health și poți să, cum ziceam, să faci sharing de informație cu voi și în același timp, fii curioși ce alte organizații și să fiu un event de bridging între două parții.

I want to share information with you and at the same time I would be curious about other organizations and to be a bridging event between the 2 parties.

Now I would like to ask you, the innovations that you have developed, are they relatively sustainable?

I think we are trying to figure it out now.

I think this is the most complicated thing for a founder before realizing what he is doing.

And related to this, I realized that, for example, we want to do various experiments to see if people really need it or not.

And there are a lot of people who are against projects.

For example, if we do something together, professionally, for sure someone else worked in this field and can say something.

And I think that at startups, it's this thing that we all go in our own direction, we are independent, we are founders and so on.

But we don't realize how much we have to win if we collaborate with others, if we make new things and so on.

I'm sorry, I've gone a bit on this tangent.

And I think a method by which you realize that the idea is sustainable is simply to be with other people, to say, hey, this idea is valid, it's worth experimenting with us, it's worth fighting for 3 months to realize if you already know, and so on.

Yes, sometimes they have, even sometimes when you develop something in parallel, there can be some particularities that show you that you are doing something different and you see different results.

But I really liked what you said, Radu, that at first you want to see that the product is sustainable and then you scale it.

I would like to ask you, What is the starting point for the innovation?

From an uneducated perspective, I think that when you validate that the service produces the outcomes you said it would produce and that the outcomes are valuable for the people you serve, you know that you have a method through which you can transmit, that it is valuable for people and people can realize it from the beginning and you don't need some marketing project to show them that hey, it's a good product for you.

You have a service that is valuable and people realize that it is valuable, that service and you have a channel through which you can communicate this to people you want to reach.

I think that's the moment when you have the predictability, that's the moment when you start to do scalable things.

And then, of course, the technical considerations, if you have the ability to serve people and so on.

If anyone else has anything to add, I saw that you have no reaction to the light.

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