An introduction to Dr. James Hollis and his notable books on self, relationships, and personal resilience.

Introduction to Dr. James Hollis

Dr. Hollis explains the distinction between the self and ego, and how our sense of self is shaped by our experiences and narratives.

Understanding the Self and Ego

Discussion on unconscious complexes, triggers, and altered states that influence our decision-making and behavior.

Unconscious Complexes and Triggers

Exploring self-defeating patterns and the importance of seeking feedback from others, paying attention to dreams, and identifying patterns in behavior.

Becoming Conscious of Patterns

The significance of meaning, energy systems, and dreams in understanding the purposeful expression of the psyche and the soul.

Finding Meaning and Purpose

Practical strategies for segmenting thinking and actions to touch into deeper meanings while carrying out daily tasks and responsibilities.

Segmenting Thinking and Actions

The importance of reflecting on dreams and life, and the challenge of making time for therapy.

Reflecting on Dreams and Life

The distractions and noise of modern life, and the need for reflection amidst the chaos.

The Noisy Din Around Us

The first half of life as a period of reactive living, and the need for ego strength to reflect.

Living Reactively vs. Generatively

The challenges of self-reflection in relationships, and the role of ego strength and life experience.

Psychodynamics of Love

The importance of modeling courage and integrity for the next generation, and the burden of unlived parental life.

Modeling a Life of Courage and Integrity

The need for permission to live authentically and the impact of conditional expectations.

Permission to Live Honestly

The summons to live honestly and serve the self, and the meaningful aspect of listening to people's suffering.

Living a Meaningful Journey

The impact of cultural expectations and the shock of living an unlived life.

Cultural Expectations and Unlived Lives

The importance of showing up for the appointment with our own souls, and the transformative nature of self-reflection during hardship.

Appointment with Our Souls

The distinction between being in service to oneself and societal expectations, and the importance of accessing one's deepest resource for self-care.

Being in Service to the Self

The concept of meditation as a deliberate perceptual shift and its role in understanding unconscious processing.

Deliberate Perceptual Shift

Understanding the shadow, its unconscious manifestation, and the impact of disowning and projecting the shadow onto others.

Exploring the Shadow

Exploring the concept of the shadow and its impact on personal growth and society.

Understanding the Shadow

Methods for recognizing and acknowledging one's shadow, including seeking feedback from others and interpreting dreams.

Recognizing the Shadow

Reflection on the humbling and responsible nature of shadow work, and the importance of accepting personal responsibility.

The Humbling Work of Shadow Work

The challenges of addressing personal shadows, the clash of shadows in society, and the reluctance to engage in shadow work.

Addressing Personal Shadows

Exploring the impact of socialization on the development of shadows, the consequences of social norms, and the importance of individual expression.

Socialization and Its Impact

Reflecting on the journey of self-discovery, resistance to parental influence, and the process of becoming a full adult.

The Journey of Self-Discovery

Navigating the dynamics of committed relationships, the balance between sacrifice and personal integrity, and the growth potential within relationships.

Committed Relationships and Sacrifice

Challenges and complexities of long-term relationships, the impact of personal growth on relationships, and the necessity of renegotiation and adaptation.

Challenges in Long-Term Relationships

Exploring the pursuit of fulfillment, the emptiness of external success, and the importance of authentic self-expression.

The Pursuit of Fulfillment

Examining historical and contemporary stereotypes of men, the evolution of male identity, and the changing perceptions of masculinity.

Men and Stereotypes

Exploring the shift from antiquated views of maleness to modern perspectives and the impact on men's psyche.

The Changing View of Maleness

Examining the specific challenges and self-reflection needed for men and boys to understand their own psyche and roles in society.

The Work of Men and Boys

Discussing the role expectations, fear-based responses, and competitiveness that govern men's lives, leading to self-estrangement.

Men's Lives and Role Expectations

Exploring fear-based overcompensations, longing for wise guidance, and the impact of women's courage on men's self-reflection.

Fear-Based Responses and Longing for Wisdom

Addressing the lack of initiation for males, the search for purpose, and the need to find one's own path in life.

Uninitiated Males and Finding One's Path

Reflecting on the individual's journey, the importance of emotional, developmental, and spiritual life, and finding a larger story.

Discussing the balance between individual journey and relational commitments, and the concept of sacrifice for mutual growth.

Balancing Individual and Relational Aspects

Examining the unique challenges faced by women, including career and parenting conflicts, and the need for genuine reciprocity in relationships.

Challenges Faced by Women

Discussion on the historical segregation of women and the resurgence of activism in the 60s.

The Persistence of Segregation

Exploring the radical challenges to traditional role definitions and the resulting ambiguity and reactive nature in society.

Challenges to Traditional Role Definitions

Discussion on the use of psychological terms and clinical diagnoses in social media and the real pathologies of the psyche.

Pathology and Psychological Terms

Exploring the therapist's role in differential diagnosis and the various kinds of depression and their treatment.

Differential Diagnosis in Therapy

Discussion on the recovery of self-worth and the task of addressing personal suffering and psychopathology.

Recovery of Self-Worth

Exploring the conflict between despair and integrity in old age and the accountability to live life in the face of difficult situations.

Integrity and Despair in Old Age

Discussion on mortality, the meaningfulness of life, and the paradox of mortality in making life meaningful.

Understanding Mortality and Life's Meaning

Exploring the fear of death, ego attachment, and the significance of mortality in shaping life choices.

The Fear of Death and Ego Attachment

Reflecting on personal worries about mortality, concern for loved ones, and the curiosity to continue learning.

Facing Mortality and Personal Concerns

Discussing the concept of Gelassenheit, serenity, and the acceptance of mortality by letting go of ego sovereignty.

Letting Go of Ego Attachment

Emphasizing the importance of living large questions, psychospiritual growth, and the impact of decisive life choices.

Living the Questions and Seeking Answers

Expressing gratitude, encouraging support for the podcast, and sharing information about the neural network newsletter.

Final Remarks and Gratitude

# Huberman Lab Podcast: Understanding the Self and Finding Purpose

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. James Hollis, a Jungian psychoanalyst and author of more than 17 books about the self, relationships, and creating the best possible life.

## Discovering the Self

Dr. Hollis teaches us what questions we need to ask of ourselves on a regular basis in order to best understand who we really are and what we most desire at the level of vocation, romantic relationships, friendship and family, and indeed in relationship to life's journey. He emphasizes the distinction between the self and one's sense of self, and how understanding this can lead to personal growth and fulfillment.

## Practical Tools for Personal Growth

Dr. Hollis provides practical tools that we can apply on a daily basis to ensure that we are staying on our best path. He discusses the importance of paying attention to our patterns, seeking feedback from those around us, and paying attention to our dreams and energy systems. He also emphasizes the significance of finding meaning and purpose in our lives, and how this can lead to a more fulfilling existence.

## Segmenting Thinking and Actions

In the absence of a daily therapy session, Dr. Hollis suggests that people can start to segment or compartmentalize their thinking in a way that is functional. He acknowledges the time constraints that many people face and provides practical advice on how to incorporate self-reflection into daily life. This includes setting aside time each morning to reflect on one's purpose and the deeper meaning of life.

## The Shadow and Self-Reflection

Dr. Hollis delves into the concept of the shadow, which represents the parts of our psyche that we find troubling or contradictory to our values. He emphasizes that acknowledging and working with our shadow is essential for personal growth and self-awareness. Dr. Hollis also discusses the importance of being present in the moment and finding activities that allow us to step out of the stimulus-response cycle, such as walking, drawing, or listening to music.

## Men and Personal Growth

Dr. Hollis shares insights on the changing perceptions of men's roles and identities over the years. He discusses how societal expectations and stereotypes have evolved, and the impact this has on personal growth and fulfillment for men. He also addresses the challenges that men face in seeking therapy and personal development, and provides valuable perspectives on navigating these obstacles.

## Women and Personal Growth

Dr. Hollis emphasizes that women also need to examine the messages given to them by their families, cultural settings, and role models. He recognizes the unique challenges that women face, including the balance of career and family, and the societal expectations placed upon them. Dr. Hollis discusses the importance of finding a partner who supports genuine reciprocity in responsibilities and the challenges that arise from trying to have it all.

## Understanding Pathology and Psychological Terms

Dr. Hollis and I discussed the use of psychological terms such as narcissism, projection, and gaslighting in today's society. He emphasized the importance of differential diagnosis in therapy, and how it's essential to understand the underlying mechanisms of various psychiatric challenges. We also delved into the impact of the internet on mental health and the need for genuine dialogue and observation over time to make accurate diagnoses.

## The Second Half of Life

We also explored the stages of developmental maturation and the core conflicts that individuals go through at different stages of life. Dr. Hollis shared insights on the conflict between despair and integrity in old age, and how mortality makes life meaningful. He emphasized the importance of understanding and acknowledging our sense of mortality, and how this can lead to personal growth and a more fulfilling existence.

## Embracing the Journey

Dr. Hollis encourages us to ask large questions and live a large and interesting journey. He emphasizes the importance of choosing a path that enlarges us psychospiritually, and how this leads to growth and development. He also highlights the need for genuine self-reflection and the impact of our choices on the precious gift of life.

Stay tuned for the next segment of the podcast where we delve deeper into the discussion with Dr. James Hollis.

If you're enjoying the podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. You can also leave us a review and check out our sponsors. For more science and science-related tools, follow me on social media at Huberman Lab. And don't forget to subscribe to our neural network newsletter for monthly podcast summaries and practical protocols at hubermanlab.com.

Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with Dr. James Hollis. And last but certainly not least, thank you.

Unlocking Personal Growth and Finding Purpose: Insights from Dr. James Hollis

The expression of the suffering of the soul

The purposeful expression of the organism

People's self-perception is often inaccurate

People's self-perception is always accurate

People's self-perception is unpredictable

Social media creates stable and predictable interactions

Social media creates erratic and unpredictable interactions

Social media has no impact on interactions

Social media encourages positive interactions only

Individual performances with a personal identity

They have a large problem because they're no longer able to blame others

They are likely to be misunderstood by others

They are not accountable for their actions

Ask your partner, children, or close friend

Avoid acknowledging personal responsibility

What is wanting to live in this world through me?

To prioritize their career over everything else

To support the growth and development of their partner

To differentiate between different kinds of depression

Foraging for unconscious parental influences

Living with joyous events and family influences

- The Huberman Lab Podcast features Dr. James Hollis, a Jungian psychoanalyst and author of 17 books about self, relationships, and creating the best life.
- Dr. Hollis discusses the importance of asking ourselves questions to understand who we are and what we desire in various aspects of life.
- He emphasizes the distinction between the self and the ego, and how our upbringing, trauma, and unique traits shape our sense of self.
- The podcast is separate from Stanford University and is sponsored by Matina, Juv, and BetterHelp.
- Dr. Hollis explains that the self has a healing and expressive agenda, and how complexes can temporarily take over our consciousness.
- He also discusses how our internal clusters of energy can influence our decisions and perceptions.

- Our experiences and environment shape our sense of self and can lead to unconscious patterns and behaviors
- Therapy aims to help individuals understand and differentiate from these patterns
- Understanding one's own patterns, seeking feedback from others, and paying attention to dreams can help uncover unconscious influences
- The unconscious can drive behaviors and emotions, and becoming aware of these influences can lead to personal growth and change

- The speaker discusses the importance of finding meaning in life and the suffering of the soul
- He emphasizes the need to understand the purpose of one's existence and to listen to the yearning of the soul
- The speaker shares his personal experience of facing depression and finding a new path in life
- The video includes a brief sponsorship message for a nutritional supplement
- The speaker and the host discuss the challenge of finding time for deeper reflection and meaning in a busy daily life

- The central problem of our time is that people claim they don't have time for self-reflection or therapy
- Reflecting on dreams and journaling is important for self-awareness and therapy
- People are often too distracted by the demands of life to reflect on themselves
- Self-reflection takes courage and humility, but it ultimately serves others
- It is important to be honest with oneself and reflect on internal drivers and complexes
- It is common for people to fear expressing their true desires for fear of not being accepted

- The speaker discusses the challenges of being honest with oneself and others, especially in the context of social media
- They propose practical tools for self-reflection and self-care, such as journaling, meditation, and engaging in activities that absorb attention
- The speaker emphasizes the importance of finding ways to be alone with oneself to combat loneliness and reconnect with one's inner resources
- They also highlight the negative impact of stimulus-response interactions, particularly on social media, and the need for balance and self-awareness in using these platforms.

- The speaker believes that taking time alone, such as going for a walk, can reveal the unconscious mind and lead to a more authentic response to life's demands
- They discuss different forms of meditation, including yoga nidra, and how it can help with self-awareness and intentional living
- They also talk about the concept of the "shadow" in psychology, which represents the unconscious parts of our psyche that we may find troubling or contradictory
- The speaker mentions the Waking Up app as a tool for meditation and mindfulness training
- They emphasize the importance of being present in the moment and embracing the full range of human nature, including the parts we may find unacceptable
- The shadow can manifest through projection onto others or getting caught up in collective moods.

- Rock concerts can create a mob mentality where individual identity is lost
- Recognizing and owning one's shadow is important for personal and societal growth
- Few people address their shadows, leading to polarization and collective identification
- Socialization and family dynamics can impact the development of the shadow
- Personal example of breaking free from family limitations and pursuing a larger life journey

Dr. James Hollis, a Jungian psychoanalyst and author, discusses the importance of self-reflection and understanding unconscious influences in the Huberman Lab Podcast. He emphasizes the distinction between the self and the ego, the impact of upbringing and trauma on our sense of self, and the role of therapy in uncovering unconscious patterns. The podcast is sponsored by Matina, Juv, and BetterHelp. Dr. Hollis also explores the concept of the "shadow" in psychology and the need for individuals to recognize and address their own shadows for personal and societal growth.

- The speaker discusses the complexity of being an adult and a human being, and the struggle of standing one's ground while also being open to other perspectives
- They emphasize the importance of self-awareness and individuation in relationships
- The high divorce rate is attributed to people changing over time and the difficulty of maintaining a relationship as individuals evolve
- The speaker also discusses the challenges of parenting and the importance of supporting a child's individual expression
- The survival of marriages does not necessarily indicate personal growth and development within the relationship

- The speaker discusses the importance of living in one's truth and not being swayed by societal expectations
- They emphasize the value of genuine friendships and relationships over material possessions and public opinion
- The discussion also touches on the challenges faced by men in finding their identity and sense of duty in the modern world
- The speaker highlights the importance of living a life in service to one's inner values and psyche, rather than external standards of success
- They also mention the need for men to adapt to changing societal expectations and seek help when needed, rather than adhering to outdated stereotypes of masculinity.

- The speaker discusses the traditional view of masculinity and the pressure on men to meet societal expectations
- Men are expected to suppress their emotions and be competitive, leading to self-estrangement
- The speaker emphasizes the need for men to address their inner struggles and find their own path
- Both men and women are called to question societal expectations and find purpose in their lives
- The speaker highlights the importance of both goal-directed behavior and awareness of context and relationships for a fulfilling life

- Men and women can support each other and celebrate their differences
- Men are recognizing the need to address their inner struggles
- Traditional initiation rituals for boys are lacking in modern society
- Many uninitiated males are struggling to find their identity
- Therapy can help individuals find their larger life story
- Sacrifice in relationships is about making things sacred for both parties
- Facing childhood fears is important for personal growth
- Understanding oneself and balancing relationships is important for personal and relational growth

- The speaker discusses the caution of immediately applauding long marriages, as they may have experienced soul death
- They suggest the need for third party support in relationships, similar to how villages provided support in the past
- The speaker also addresses the unique challenges women face in balancing career and parenting
- They emphasize the importance of genuine reciprocity and shared responsibilities in relationships, especially in child rearing

- The speaker discusses the opportunities available to women now, contrasting it with the past where women were not allowed to pursue certain careers.
- They also talk about the societal changes in the 60s and the ambiguity and freedom it brought.
- The conversation shifts to the use of psychological terms on social media and the need for differential diagnosis in therapy.
- The speaker expresses concern about the misappropriation of psychological terms and the potential impact on those suffering from actual pathologies.

- The speaker discusses the complexity of being an adult and the struggle of maintaining relationships as individuals evolve
- Emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and individuation in relationships
- Addresses the challenges faced by men in finding their identity in the modern world and the need to adapt to changing societal expectations
- Highlights the importance of living in one's truth, genuine friendships, and supporting a child's individual expression
- Discusses the unique challenges women face in balancing career and parenting
- Expresses concern about the misappropriation of psychological terms on social media and the potential impact on those suffering from actual pathologies

- The speaker discusses the concept of suffering and the tasks it presents to individuals in therapy
- He emphasizes the importance of taking responsibility for addressing one's own struggles
- The discussion also touches on the impact of childhood abuse and the task of recovering a sense of self
- The speaker shares his personal motto of "shut up, suit up, show up" as a reminder to take accountability for one's life
- The importance of developmental stages in adulthood is also highlighted, with an emphasis on resolving core conflicts throughout life

- The second half of life involves confronting the work that needs to be done
- It is difficult to imagine going through difficult life stages until they actually happen
- Aging and mortality bring about feelings of despair and loss
- The brain's ability to adjust time perception may be a way to avoid the reality of death
- Understanding and acknowledging our mortality is important for self-recognition as humans
- Mortality makes life meaningful, as immortality would lead to boredom and lack of purpose

- The speaker discusses the concept of mortality and the identification of the ego
- He emphasizes the importance of asking big questions and living a large and interesting journey
- The conversation covers the fear of death, the significance of life, and the need to make choices that enlarge us psychospiritually
- The speaker expresses gratitude for the conversation and encourages listeners to subscribe to the podcast and engage with the content on social media.

- Huberman Lab is available on all social media channels
- They offer a free monthly neural network newsletter with podcast summaries and protocols in PDF form
- The protocols cover topics such as neuroplasticity, learning, sleep improvement, and growth mindset
- To subscribe, go to hubermanlab.com, click on the menu tab, scroll down to newsletter, and enter your email
- Email privacy is guaranteed
- The discussion with Dr. James Hollis is appreciated

- The speaker discusses the concept of suffering and the importance of taking responsibility for addressing one's struggles
- The impact of childhood abuse and the task of recovering a sense of self is highlighted
- The speaker shares his personal motto of "shut up, suit up, show up" to emphasize taking accountability for one's life
- The importance of resolving core conflicts throughout life and confronting the work that needs to be done in the second half of life is discussed
- Aging and mortality bring about feelings of despair and loss, and the brain's ability to adjust time perception may be a way to avoid the reality of death
- Understanding and acknowledging our mortality is important for self-recognition as humans
- The conversation covers the fear of death, the significance of life, and the need to make choices that enlarge us psychospiritually
- The speaker expresses gratitude for the conversation and encourages listeners to subscribe to the podcast and engage with the content on social media. Huberman Lab is available on all social media channels and offers a free monthly neural network newsletter with podcast summaries and protocols in PDF form. Email privacy is guaranteed.

In this episode, my guest is Dr. James Hollis, Ph.D., a Jungian psychoanalyst, renowned educator and author on finding and pursuing one’s unique purpose. Dr. Hollis is also an expert in the psychology of relationships and healing from trauma. We discuss how early family dynamics and social context create patterns of both adaptive and maladaptive behavior and internal narratives that, when examined, lead to better choices and a deeply fulfilling existence.

We discuss discovering your unique self-identity and purpose through specific practices of reflection, meditation and conversations with others. We also discuss self-perception and the evolution of roles within marriages, parent-child relationships, and work.

Throughout the episode, Dr. Hollis provides both basic knowledge and practical tools to help us assess ourselves and better understand who we are and what we really want in careers, relationships of all kinds, and society.

Thank you to our sponsors
AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman 
Mateína: https://drinkmateina.com/huberman 
Joovv: https://joovv.com/huberman 
BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/huberman 
Waking Up: https://wakingup.com/huberman 

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Dr. James Hollis
Website: https://jameshollis.net 
Books: https://jameshollis.net/hollisBooks.html 
Jung Platform: https://bit.ly/3yjVhTJ
Videos: https://jameshollis.net/hollisVideos.html 
Upcoming lectures: https://jameshollis.net/hollisLecture.htm 

Resources Mentioned
Erikson’s Stages of Development: https://bit.ly/3UWEyid
William Shakespeare “The Seven Ages of Man”: https://bit.ly/4bAmD6w
Steve Jobs Commencement Speech (2005): https://youtu.be/UF8uR6Z6KLc
Jung on Death & Immortality (book): https://amzn.to/3USykzL
Live the Questions (Rainer Maria Rilke): https://bit.ly/4dAX9Yo

James Hollis Books Mentioned
Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life: How to Finally, Really Grow Up: https://amzn.to/3KiQwN7
Creating Your Life: Finding Your Individual Path: https://amzn.to/3UWEHlL
Living Between Worlds: Finding Personal Resilience in Changing Times: https://amzn.to/3UW3HcB
Under Saturn’s Shadow: The Wounding and Healing of Men: https://amzn.to/3UvCTOY
Swamplands of the Soul: New Life in Dismal Places: https://amzn.to/3UBwCBG
The Eden Project: In Search of the Magical Other: https://amzn.to/3UGyIjo

People Mentioned
Carl Jung: Swiss psychiatrist, psychoanalyst: https://bit.ly/3UDStbF
Marion Woodman: Jungian analyst, author: https://nyti.ms/3JZcjco
Søren Kierkegaard: Danish theologian, philosopher: https://stanford.io/3wy0Ygg
Terence: Roman playwright, poet: https://bit.ly/4bumG3q
Joseph Campbell: American author: https://bit.ly/3wwE4pz
Irene Claremont de Castillejo: author, Jungian analyst: https://amzn.to/3QJLkVX
Louis Pasteur: French chemist, microbiologist: https://bit.ly/4bBwWau
Erik Erikson: psychoanalyst, known for his theory of stages of development: https://bit.ly/3QISIRw

Timestamps
00:00:00 Dr. James Hollis
00:02:14 Sponsors: Mateina, Joovv & BetterHelp
00:05:57 Self, Ego, Sense of Self 
00:13:59 Unconscious Patterns, Blind Spots, Dreams; Psyche & Meaning 
00:21:56 Second Half of Life, Purpose, Depression 
00:25:37 Sponsor: AG1
00:27:08 Tool: Daily Reflection; Crisis 
00:31:47 Families & Children, Permission & Burdens
00:37:27 Complex Identification, Self-Perception; Social Media & Borderline 
00:41:55 Daily Stimulus Response, Listening to the Soul
00:45:40 Exiting Stimulus-Response, Loneliness, Burnout
00:51:19 Meditation & Perception, Reflection
00:54:58 Sponsor: Waking Up
00:56:15 Recognizing the “Shadow” & Adulthood
01:02:48 Socialization; Family & Life Journey
01:09:04 Relationships & “Otherness”, Standing Your Ground
01:15:51 Marriage, “Starter Marriages” & Evolution; Parenting
01:19:37 Shadow Issues, Success & External Reward, Personal Growth 
01:27:59 Men, Alcohol, “Stoic Man”, Loneliness, Fear & Longing 
01:37:33 Women & Men, Focused vs. Diffuse Awareness; Male Rite of Passage
01:44:31 Sacrifice, Relationships; Facing Fears 
01:48:20 Therapy, “Abyss of the Self”, Repeating Patterns & Stories 
01:55:17 Women, Career & Family, Partner Support; Redefining Roles
02:01:40 Pathology & Diagnosis, Internet
02:07:05 Life, Suffering & Accountability, “Swamplands” & Task
02:11:32 Abuse & Recovery of Self, Patience, Powerlessness
02:14:11 Living a Larger Life; “Shut Up, Suit Up, Show Up”
02:17:49 Life Stages; Despair & Integrity Conflict
02:25:00 Death, Ego, Mortality & Meaning
02:38:07 Zero-Cost Support, Spotify & Apple Reviews, Sponsors, YouTube Feedback, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter

#HubermanLab 

Disclaimer: https://www.hubermanlab.com/disclaimer

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

James Hollis is a Jungian psychoanalyst and author of more than 17 books about the self, relationships and how to create the best possible life.

Some of the notable titles and topics of those books include, creating a life, finding your individual path, as well as the Eden Project, in search of the magical other, which as the name suggests is about relationships.

He has also written about how to access our most resilient self in the book entitled, Living Between Worlds, Finding Personal Resilience in Changing Times.

Hollis teaches us what questions we need to ask of ourselves on a regular basis in order to best understand who we really are and what we most desire at the level of vocation, romantic relationships, friendship and family, and indeed in relationship to life's journey.

What you'll quickly realize during today's discussion with Dr.

Hollis is that while yes, he is trained as a Jungian psychoanalyst, he is also very firmly grounded in practical tools.

That is, he teaches us the simple and yet practical tools that we can each and all apply on a daily basis in order to make sure that we are staying on our best path.

We discuss how family dynamics that we grew up in, as well as trauma and attachment styles, combined with our unique gifts, and indeed our shadow side as well, in order to drive us down particular trajectories in life that sometimes lead us where we want to go, but other times lead us astray.

And when they do, how to get back on track.

Hollis is truly a special 1 in that he rarely does podcast appearances.

In fact, we traveled to him to record this podcast.

That's how motivated I was to be able to sit down with him because I'm familiar with his many books and his incredible teachings.

But I really wanted to get his knowledge collected in 1 format, in 1 place.

And what I can promise you is that by the end of today's podcast, you'll be thinking differently about yourself, about the people in your life, and indeed life itself.

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

It is however, part of my desire and effort to bring 0 cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public.

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

Matina makes loose leaf and ready to drink yerba mate.

Now I've long been a fan of yerba mate as a source of caffeine in part because of its high antioxidant content, as well as its ability to elevate glucagon like peptide 1 or GLP 1, which leads to a slight appetite suppressing effect, as well as its ability to regulate blood sugar and possible neuroprotective effects.

I also just happen to love the way that yerba mate tastes.

I'll sometimes drink it hot by pouring hot water over the loose leaf yerba mate.

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Juv makes medical grade red light therapy devices.

Now, if there's 1 thing that I've consistently emphasized on this podcast, it's the incredible impact that light, meaning photons, can have on our mental health and physical health.

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Today's episode is also brought to us by BetterHelp.

BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out online.

I've been going to therapy for well over 30 years.

It was a condition of being allowed to stay in school, but Pretty soon I realized that therapy is extremely valuable.

In fact, I consider doing regular therapy just as important as getting regular exercise, including cardiovascular exercise and resistance training, which of course I also do every week.

The reason I know therapy is so valuable is that If you can find a therapist with whom you can develop a really good rapport, you not only get terrific support for some of the challenges in your life, but you also can derive tremendous insights from that therapy.

Insights that can allow you to better not just your emotional life and your relationship life, but of course also the relationship to yourself and to your professional life, to all sorts of career goals.

In fact, I see therapy as 1 of the key components for meshing together all aspects of one's life and being able to really direct one's focus and attention toward what really matters.

If you'd like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com slash Huberman to get 10% off your first month.

Again, that's betterhelp.com slash Huberman.

James Hollis, such a honor and a pleasure to sit down with you.

I'm a huge fan of your writing and I'm excited to talk to

This is something that I think people occasionally wonder about, you know, who am I?

We wake up every day, we have some stable representation of who we are and our name most of the time.

And we develop a self, a story based on what we know about our parents, our siblings, our life.

From the perspective of union psychology, maybe psychology generally, how should we think about ourselves?

Well, first of all, the idea of the self with a capital S to distinguish it from the ego consciousness, that is to say my conscious presence, as you and I are talking right now, is a transcendent other, it's a mystery.

It's essentially governed by our instincts, it's nature seeking its own expression and its own healing.

What I've seen in terms of the activity of the self through the years, it has 2 agendas.

1 healing when injured and secondly, expressing itself in the same way that the acorn becomes the oak tree, so to speak.

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Dr. James Hollis: How to Find Your True Purpose & Create Your Best Life