Andrew Huberman introduces the Huberman Lab guest series, discussing science and science-based tools for everyday life. He is joined by Dr. Paul Conte for a 4 episode series about mental health.

Introduction to Mental Health Series

The episode delves into the topic of healthy relationships, defining what a healthy relationship is and how to achieve it in various aspects of life. Dr. Conte discusses successful relationships, tools for improvement, healthy and trauma bonds, power dynamics, anxiety, and boundaries in relationships.

Healthy Relationships

Andrew Huberman shares information about BetterHelp, an online therapy platform, and its benefits for improving mental health.

Sponsorship: BetterHelp

Andrew Huberman introduces Waking Up, a meditation app, and discusses the benefits of meditation for mood, anxiety, focus, and memory improvement.

Sponsorship: Waking Up

Dr. Conte and Andrew Huberman discuss the importance of understanding oneself and the role of agency and gratitude in achieving mental health and healthy relationships.

Relationships and Self-understanding

The discussion explores the factors of compatibility in relationships, emphasizing the importance of generative drives and open-mindedness in fostering healthy connections.

Points of Compatibility in Relationships

Exploring the concept of generative drives and their impact on relationships. The discussion delves into the importance of matching generative drives in romantic relationships and the potential problems that arise when drives are not in balance.

Understanding Generative Drives

Examining the role of generative drives in healthy communication and the impact of agency and gratitude on relationship dynamics. The conversation highlights the significance of self-inquiry and curiosity in fostering a deeper understanding of the self and the relationship.

The Role of Generative Drives in Communication

Addressing the challenges of mismatched generative drives in relationships, particularly in the context of sexual dynamics. The discussion emphasizes the importance of open communication, mentalizing, and gratitude in navigating differences and finding a middle ground.

Navigating Mismatched Generative Drives

Discussing the dynamics of sexual compatibility in relationships, including the importance of generative drive and acceptance of self.

Navigating Sexual Compatibility

Exploring the significance of generative drive in relationships and the impact of openness, communication, and acceptance of self and others.

Cultivating Generative Drive

Discussing the concept of giving without expectation of return and its role in fostering generative drive and positive relationships.

Gifts of Abundance

Exploring the healthy dynamics of giving and receiving in relationships, emphasizing the role of agency, gratitude, and excess of goodness.

Importance of Mutuality

Promotion of 8 Sleep mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking features for improved sleep quality.

Sponsor Message: 8 Sleep

Discussing the potential challenges of having similar or differing sexual desire scales in relationships and their impact on compatibility and family goals.

The Impact of Sexual Desire Scale

Exploring the impact of aggressive proactiveness drive in romantic pairings and its influence on relationship dynamics.

The Role of Aggressive Proactiveness Drive

Examining common unhealthy pairings in relationships, including repetition compulsion and dynamics of assertive-submissive interactions.

Common Unhealthy Pairings

Exploring the impact of power dynamics in relationships, particularly in romantic relationships, and the role of envy in destructive behavior.

Power Dynamics in Relationships

Examining the characteristics and impact of narcissistic behavior, including the exploitative nature and vulnerability of individuals with narcissistic character structures.

Understanding Narcissistic Behavior

Discussing attachment insecurity and the impact on individuals, including the tendency to make compromises of the self to avoid abandonment and the role of past experiences in shaping attachment insecurity.

Attachment Insecurity and Compromises of Self

Exploring the impact of demoralization and lack of agency on individuals in unhealthy relationships, and the importance of empowerment and gratitude in fostering change.

The Impact of Demoralization and Lack of Agency

Examining the role of isolation and oppression in unhealthy relationships, and the impact of darkness on the inside and envy as a destructive force.

Isolation and Oppression in Unhealthy Dynamics

Discussing the importance of accountability and empowerment in systems of people, and the need for reasonable and rational accountability to prevent oppression and abuse.

Accountability and Empowerment in Systems

Exploring the role of power dynamics and envy in relationships, and the destructive nature of envy in perpetuating oppression and demoralization.

Power Dynamics and Envy in Relationships

Exploring the complexities of power dynamics and the covert nature of power relationships.

Understanding Power Dynamics

Exploring the unspoken power dynamics in relationships, including examples of unstated power struggles.

The Issue of the Non-Issue

Examining the importance of identifying non-obvious power dynamics in relationships and the impact on overall health.

Looking for the Non-Obvious

Discussing the significance of give and take in healthy relationships and the role it plays in strengthening relationships.

The Give and Take

Exploring the concept of transactional relationships and the role of generative drive in creating healthy, non-transactional relationships.

Transactional vs. Non-Transactional Relationships

Examining the impact of anxiety on relationships and the importance of understanding and addressing anxiety for healthy, generative relationships.

The Role of Anxiety in Relationships

Exploring the components of anxiety and how to identify and address its causes.

Understanding Anxiety

Examining the factors that lead to demoralization and lack of motivation, and the process of inquiry to identify and address these issues.

Motivation and Demoralization

Analyzing the dynamics of anxiety and understanding the perspectives of self and others in relationships.

Frames of Mind in Relationships

Exploring the concept of mentalization and its impact on understanding the intentions and feelings of others.

Placing Ourselves in the Mind of Others

Discussing the impact of relationships on anxiety and the importance of understanding the dynamics of the 'us' in relationships.

The Magic Bridge of Us

Examining the importance of setting healthy boundaries and the process of internal self-reflection before projecting boundaries outward.

Healthy Boundaries

Exploring the significance of self-understanding, mentalization, and generative drive in building healthy relationships and personal growth.

Self-Understanding and Generative Drive

Exploring the concept of self-improvement through the metaphor of a changing map, emphasizing the importance of self-understanding and the limitations of labels and numbers.

The Changing Map

Acknowledging the complexity and pitfalls of self-improvement while emphasizing the positive potential for change and growth.

Hopeful Acknowledgment

Expressing gratitude and appreciation for the knowledge and insights shared, along with a reminder about upcoming episodes and ways to support the podcast.

Gratitude and Appreciation

Promoting engagement with the podcast through social media, discussing supplements, and inviting subscriptions to the newsletter.

Social Media and Supplements

- This is the third episode in a series about mental health with Dr. Paul Conte.
- The episode focuses on healthy relationships, including romantic relationships, friendships, and relationships with oneself.
- Dr. Conte discusses successful relationships, tools to improve relationships, different types of bonds, challenges in relationships, and the role of power dynamics, anxiety, and boundaries.
- The discussion approaches relationships through the lens of the self and conscious and subconscious minds.
- The episode emphasizes the importance of agency and gratitude in maintaining healthy relationships.
- The episode is part of an effort to provide free science-based information to the general public.
- The episode is sponsored by BetterHelp and Waking Up, offering therapy and meditation resources respectively.

- Being the best version of ourselves allows us to be the best in our relationships.
- The core elements of self include the unconscious mind, conscious mind, defense mechanisms, character structure, and self.
- Defense mechanisms can be healthy and protect us.
- Salience refers to what we pay attention to and interpret about ourselves and others.
- Our behaviors and strivings also contribute to our sense of self.
- We all have the capacity to examine and improve these aspects of ourselves.
- Relationships involve the intersection and overlap of individual maps of self.
- Compatibility in relationships involves both tangible factors and compatibility of generative drives.
- Compatibility cannot always be fully known in advance and false metrics can lead to misunderstandings.
- Compatibility of generative drives determines if people can get along.

- The factors that determine compatibility in relationships are often misunderstood and misleading
- Factors like education, family structure, and interests are not as important as the generative drive
- The generative drive refers to the individual's motivation and ability to create and grow
- Compatibility is based on the alignment of generative drives between two people
- Shared interests, such as music, can be beneficial in a relationship if both individuals have a strong generative drive
- Openness, curiosity, and humility are important qualities in fostering compatibility
- Compatibility is not determined by superficial factors, but by the health and alignment of the generative drives in each person.

- The way we describe relationships should include aspects of openness, humility, and agency
- Like-mindedness should be based on generative drives, not just shared activities or preferences
- Traditional barriers of culture can be broken through online dating
- Interconnectedness and continuous learning contribute to longer and healthier lives
- Appreciation of difference and diversity is important in relationships
- Seeking sameness in relationships does not lead to positive outcomes
- The key factor in a compatible partnership is a strong generative drive
- Misconceptions about relationships can lead to guilt, shame, and bad choices
- Making oneself healthy and finding a partner who also values health is important
- Generative drive is about energy, potential, and making new learning and understanding
- Drives are determined by both nature and nurture factors.

- The drive within us is influenced by genetics and formative experiences, but can also be altered.
- The generative drive is a set of potentials within us that can be localized and influenced.
- Agency and gratitude are active verbs that drive the generative drive.
- The generative drive is dominant and leads to feelings of peace and contentment.
- Building and altering the set of potentials within us affects our next moments.
- Compatibility in relationships is based on the similarity of generative drives.
- Matching levels or expressions of generative drives fosters better relationships.
- Not considering generative drives can lead to problems in relationships.
- Trauma bonds can be positive or negative depending on how they are managed.

- Trauma bonding can worsen trauma if the drives of the individuals involved are not in a healthy place
- The generative drive, pleasure drive, and aggression/assertion drive need to be balanced and expressed in a healthy way
- In a healthy trauma bond, both individuals recognize their trauma and communicate about it, working towards greater health together
- Friction in relationships often stems from a lack of communication and a lack of generative drive
- The generative drive is crucial for communication, curiosity, and creating a deeper understanding in relationships
- Mismatched drives, such as in the context of sex, can create friction in relationships if not addressed with agency and gratitude
- Mentalizing and thinking about each other's emotional states can help address issues related to mismatched drives

- Shame is present across different populations due to the emotionally charged nature of sexuality.
- A loving relationship can lead to personal growth and increased sexual satisfaction.
- Relationships should be defined by the generative drive, which involves openness and communication.
- Giving without expecting anything in return can strengthen relationships and encourage personal growth.
- Having two partners with high pleasure drives can lead to overlooking important compatibility factors.
- The generative drive should be respected and not undermined by excessive desire for pleasure.
- Love cannot overcome certain practical limitations, but compromise is possible with a strong generative drive.

- Dr. Paul Conte discusses healthy relationships, including romantic, friendships, and relationships with oneself.
- The episode focuses on successful relationships, tools to improve relationships, challenges, and the role of power dynamics, anxiety, and boundaries.
- It emphasizes the importance of agency and gratitude in maintaining healthy relationships.
- The core elements of self and defense mechanisms are discussed.
- Compatibility in relationships is based on generative drives, not superficial factors.
- Openness, curiosity, and humility are important qualities in fostering compatibility.
- Traditional barriers of culture can be broken through online dating.
- Appreciation of difference and diversity is important in relationships.
- The generative drive is a set of potentials within us that can be influenced and drives feelings of peace and contentment.
- Trauma bonds can be positive or negative depending on how they are managed.
- Mismatched drives, such as in the context of sex, can create friction in relationships if not addressed with agency and gratitude.
- Love cannot overcome certain practical limitations, but compromise is possible with a strong generative drive.

- The emergence of a relationship involves the combination of two individuals' characteristics and drives.
- A strong generative drive in both individuals can lead to a strong and fulfilling relationship.
- Love is not just about pleasure or shared interests, but about understanding and addressing limitations and traumas.
- Both individuals need to work on themselves and communicate effectively to improve the relationship.
- The aggressive proactiveness drive can also impact romantic pairings, and individuals with different levels of this drive may need to find ways to support and understand each other.
- Exploring one's own structure and function of self can help identify and address barriers to a healthy relationship.
- Common pairings that often lead to negative outcomes can be recognized and avoided through understanding and self-improvement.
- Continuous personal growth and development is important for maintaining a healthy and fulfilling relationship.

- The author discusses unhealthy pairings in relationships.
- They mention two common paradigms: repetition compulsion and trauma.
- Trauma can lead to a repetition compulsion, where people try to recreate past experiences to make them right.
- The limbic system and trauma play a role in this compulsion.
- The author emphasizes the importance of understanding the patterns and making changes.
- They also discuss the dynamic between assertive and submissive individuals in relationships.
- The author acknowledges that extreme cases are not the norm, but it's still important to address less dramatic patterns.
- The desire to prevent the other person from leaving can contribute to unhealthy relationships.

- Unhealthy relationships often involve both parties doing things to ensure the other person doesn't leave, even if it goes against their better judgment.
- Narcissistic individuals can exploit vulnerable people who are desperate to avoid abandonment.
- Attachment insecurity can lead to compromising oneself in order to please the other person and prevent them from leaving.
- Victims of abusive relationships may feel trapped due to financial reasons, psychological factors, or power dynamics.
- Staying in an abusive situation is often a result of demoralization and a lack of empowerment.
- Intervention and support can help individuals recognize their worth and find the agency to leave abusive situations.

- Unhealthy relationships are characterized by a lack of agency and gratitude
- Isolation can make unhealthy dynamics in relationships worse
- Oppressors in relationships often try to isolate their partner to prevent them from realizing there can be better
- Darkness favors the oppressor, as they want the person they are oppressing to live in darkness and not see a way out
- Abuse promotes demoralization and prevents growth and learning
- Change is possible for both the oppressor and the oppressed, but it can be difficult due to isolation and lack of resources
- Community support systems and societal structures are crucial in helping individuals in abusive situations
- Similar dynamics can also occur in non-romantic relationships, such as the workplace or friendships.

- The speaker discusses how movies often depict teens oppressing each other through bullying and ridicule, which can be destructive and leave victims feeling trapped.
- They argue that closed systems without accountability breed oppression and emphasize the need for reasonable and rational higher order accountability.
- The speaker shares a personal experience of witnessing physical abuse within a medical treatment team, highlighting the failure of the system to protect individuals and the negative impact on patient care.
- Envy is identified as the driving force behind destructive behavior, with envy being different from jealousy in that it seeks to bring down others rather than improve oneself.
- The speaker suggests that people who act out of envy, particularly those with a narcissistic character structure, are responsible for much of the damage in the world.
- Envy prevents happiness and leads to a constant need for gratification, as narcissistic individuals are insecure and use defense mechanisms to protect themselves.
- The need for accountability and the recognition of envy's destructive nature is emphasized.

- Power dynamics exist in all relationships, particularly in romantic relationships.
- Power dynamics are often covert and involve unspoken issues.
- Looking for the non-obvious and observing give and take can help understand power dynamics.
- Give and take is a sign of a healthy relationship and can strengthen it.
- Generosity and giving are important for happiness and success.

- Relationships involve the combination of individuals' characteristics and drives.
- Strong generative drive can lead to fulfilling relationships.
- Love involves understanding and addressing limitations and traumas.
- Effective communication and personal growth are important for improving relationships.
- Aggressive proactiveness drive can impact romantic pairings.
- Exploring oneself can help address barriers to a healthy relationship.
- Unhealthy pairings can be recognized and avoided through understanding and self-improvement.
- Trauma and repetition compulsion can affect relationships.
- Understanding patterns and making changes is important.
- Extreme cases are not the norm, but addressing less dramatic patterns is still important.
- Unhealthy relationships involve preventing the other person from leaving.
- Narcissistic individuals can exploit vulnerable people.
- Attachment insecurity can lead to compromising oneself.
- Victims of abuse may feel trapped due to various factors.
- Intervention and support are crucial in leaving abusive situations.
- Unhealthy relationships lack agency and gratitude.
- Isolation worsens unhealthy dynamics in relationships.
- Oppressors try to isolate their partners.
- Abuse promotes demoralization and prevents growth.
- Change is possible but difficult due to isolation and lack of resources.
- Community support systems are crucial in helping individuals in abusive situations.
- Similar dynamics can occur in non-romantic relationships.
- Movies often depict destructive behavior in teen relationships.
- Closed systems without accountability breed oppression.
- Witnessing physical abuse highlights the failure of the system to protect individuals.
- Envy drives destructive behavior and prevents happiness.
- Power dynamics exist in all relationships.
- Understanding give and take can help understand power dynamics.
- Generosity and giving are important for happiness and success.

- Relationships can involve transactions, but that doesn't mean they are purely transactional
- Transactions can involve tasks or responsibilities, as well as communication and exchange of ideas
- The belief that everything is transactional denies the complexity and humanness of relationships
- Relationships can be generative, where both parties contribute and benefit from the relationship
- In a family, for example, one person may earn the income while the other takes care of the home and children, but it is not solely a transactional arrangement
- Generative relationships allow for flexibility and compromise based on the needs and desires of both individuals
- The focus is on nurturing and creating something better together.

- The generative spirit in a couple allows them to nurture each other without oppressing one another.
- Communication, listening, and generosity are important in relationships and are learned in kindergarten.
- Trauma and complexity can hinder the simplicity and goodness of relationships.
- Anxiety can prevent people from asking for what they want and hinder the generative drive.
- Anxiety should be in a healthy place, neither too high nor too low.
- Anxiety can affect relationships, such as causing insecurity or suspicion in response times.
- It is important to identify and address anxiety in order to maintain healthy relationships.

- Anxiety can have various causes, including biological, psychological, and environmental factors.
- Understanding the root cause of anxiety can lead to positive change.
- Examining our own feelings and behaviors, as well as considering the thoughts and experiences of others, can help us understand and address anxiety.
- The "us" in relationships is important, as it can impact anxiety levels and contribute to personal growth and happiness.
- Putting ourselves in the shoes of others can be beneficial in understanding their feelings and intentions.
- Mentalization, the ability to discern emotions and intentions in ourselves and others, can lead to knowledge and growth.

- The ability to mentalize, or understand and interpret the intentions and emotions of oneself and others, is crucial in navigating conflicts and disagreements.
- Mentalizing requires clarity and a lack of distortion in one's own thoughts and perceptions.
- Not mentalizing can lead to misunderstandings and conflicts.
- Mentalizing involves considering oneself, others, and the relationship as a whole.
- Healthy boundaries start from within oneself and can be projected outward.
- Boundaries should be based on personal preferences and comfort levels in relationships.

- It is okay to set boundaries and communicate them effectively
- Understanding oneself and one's emotions is key in maintaining healthy relationships
- Mentalization, or understanding one's own thoughts and feelings, is important before trying to understand others
- Lack of self-understanding can lead to unhealthy relationships and reliance on others' unhealthy maps
- It is important to constantly explore and understand oneself in order to build positive relationships

- The map presented in the video sets clear and simple ideals for personal growth
- The generative drive is about taking action in service to learning, knowing, and creating
- Labels and numbers are not a substitute for understanding oneself
- Understanding oneself leads to agency, gratitude, and progress
- The discussion acknowledges complexity and pitfalls, but ultimately offers hope for improvement
- The video concludes with reminders to subscribe, support, and engage with the podcast and its content

- Relationships are not purely transactional, but can involve tasks, communication, and exchange of ideas
- Generative relationships involve both parties contributing and benefiting
- Anxiety can hinder relationships and should be addressed
- Understanding oneself and others is important in maintaining healthy relationships
- Boundaries should be based on personal preferences and comfort levels
- Mentalization, or understanding one's own thoughts and feelings, is crucial in navigating conflicts
- Self-understanding leads to agency, gratitude, and progress in relationships.

This is episode 3 of a 4-part special series on mental health with Dr. Paul Conti, M.D., a psychiatrist who did his medical training at Stanford School of Medicine and residency at Harvard Medical School. He is the author of the book, “Trauma: The Invisible Epidemic.” Dr. Conti explains how to find, develop and strengthen healthy relationships — including romantic relationships, work and colleague relationships, and friendships. He explains a roadmap of the conscious and unconscious mind that can allow anyone to navigate conflicts better and set healthy boundaries in relationships. We also discuss common features of unhealthy relationships and clinically supported tools for dealing with relationship insecurity, excessive anxiety, past traumas, manipulation and abuse. Dr. Conti explains how, in healthy relationships, there emerges a dynamic of the mutually generative “us” and how to continually improve that dynamic. The next episode in this special series explores true self-care, which can be cultivated through a process of building self-awareness along with other important practices.

#HubermanLab #Science #MentalHealth

Thank you to our sponsors
AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman
BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/huberman 
Waking Up: https://wakingup.com/huberman 
Eight Sleep: https://eightsleep.com/huberman 
https://www.livemomentous.com/huberman

Social & Website
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hubermanlab 
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@hubermanlab
Twitter: https://twitter.com/hubermanlab 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hubermanlab 
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hubermanlab 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-huberman
Website: https://hubermanlab.com 
Newsletter: https://hubermanlab.com/neural-network

Dr. Paul Conti
Website: https://drpaulconti.com 
Pacific Premier Group: https://pacificpremiergroup.com 
Trauma: The Invisible Epidemic: How Trauma Works and How We Can Heal From It: https://amzn.to/3GVLHXw
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-paul-m-conti-845074216

Resources
Guest Series | Dr. Paul Conti: How to Understand & Assess Your Mental Health (Episode 1): https://hubermanlab.com/guest-series-dr-paul-conti-how-to-understand-and-assess-your-mental-health
Guest Series | Dr. Paul Conti: How to Improve Your Mental Health (Episode 2): https://hubermanlab.com/guest-series-dr-paul-conti-how-to-improve-your-mental-health
The Iceberg Model: https://hubermanlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/The-Iceberg-Model.pdf
Pillars of Mental Health: https://hubermanlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Pillars-of-Mental-Health.pdf

Timestamps
00:00:00 Build Healthy Relationships
00:02:04 Sponsors: BetterHelp & Waking Up
00:05:01 Healthiest Self in Relationships
00:10:51 Structure & Function of Self
00:15:44 Relationships, Levels of Emergence
00:22:48 Generative Drive in Relationships
00:35:00 Sponsor: AG1
00:36:26 Generative Drive, Aggressive Drive, Pleasure Drive
00:45:16 Romantic Relationships & Matched Generative Drives, Trauma Bonds
00:53:05 Generative Drive Expression, Libido, Giving & Taking
01:04:29 Sponsor: Eight Sleep
01:05:50 Generative Drive in Partnerships
01:11:16 Libido, Avoidance & Working through Barriers
01:18:02 Repeating Bad Relationship Patterns, Repetition Compulsion
01:29:23 Narcissism, Dependence, Attachment Insecurity
01:34:10 Abusive Relationships, Demoralization
01:39:37 Oppressors, Darkness, Hope & Change
01:48:08 Work Relationships, Oppression & Accountability
01:53:53 Jealousy vs. Envy, Narcissism
01:59:13 Power Dynamics in Relationships
02:05:54 Giving vs. Taking in Relationships
02:09:39 Transactions & Relationships; Family & Generative Drive; Flexibility
02:19:47 Relationships & Kindergarten
02:23:04 Anxiety in Relationships, Communication
02:31:32 The “Magic Bridge of the Us”
02:37:09 Mentalization, Getting into Another’s Mindset; Navigating Conflict
02:46:51 Healthy Boundaries
02:52:08 Self-Awareness, Mentalization
02:55:28 “Broken Compass” & Self Inquiry, “Map” Analogy
03:02:25 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube Feedback, Spotify & Apple Reviews, Sponsors, Social Media, Momentous, Neural Network Newsletter

Title Card Photo Credit: Mike Blabac - https://www.blabacphoto.com

The Huberman Lab podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is formed. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from this podcast is at the user’s own risk. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their health care professionals for any such conditions.

Welcome to the Huberman Lab guest series, where I and an expert guest discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

Today marks the third episode in our 4 episode series about mental health with Dr.

Today's episode deals with the topic of healthy relationships, how to define what a healthy relationship is and how to achieve healthy relationships of all kinds, including romantic relationships, interpersonal relationships at work, friendships with family, and of course, with oneself.

This episode builds on the framework of the psychology of self and mental health that was established in the first and second episodes of this series.

However, even if you didn't listen to the first or second episode in this series, today's episode will still contain a lot of information and protocols that you will find valuable for improving your relationships.

That said, if you have the opportunity to listen to the first and second episodes in this series, I think you'll find those to be tremendously beneficial at any point.

Conte discusses what makes for a successful relationship of any kind, as well as tools to improve those relationships.

He discusses various types of bonds, including healthy bonds and trauma bonds, not just in the context of romantic relationship, but in the context of all types of relationships.

We also discuss different challenges that people face in relationships, including abusive relationships.

And we discuss the role of power dynamics, anxiety and boundaries in relationships, both from the perspective of unhealthy relationships, but more importantly, from the understanding and protocols to cultivate healthy relationships.

While there is an abundance of opinions and information out there on the internet these days about relationships, both healthy and unhealthy, today's discussion approaches the topic of relationships through an entirely different lens, which is the lens of the self in terms of one's conscious and subconscious mind and how multiple conscious and subconscious minds through different individuals interact with 1 another in ways that we can see and ways that we can't see.

And all of that framed within the actionable steps that any of us can take to improve our relationship to ourself and to others.

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

It is however, part of my desire and effort to bring 0 cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public.

In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out all online.

I've been doing therapy for more than 30 years.

While I confess that initially I was forced to do that therapy as a condition for being let back into high school, over time, I learned that therapy is a tremendously valuable practice.

In fact, I consider doing regular weekly therapy as just as important as doing regular physical exercise in order to improve one's health.

The beauty of BetterHelp is that it makes it extremely easy to find a therapist that's excellent for you.

And we can define an excellent therapist as somebody who's going to give you a lot of support, but in an objective way, as well as somebody with whom you can have excellent rapport and that can help you arrive at positively transformative insights that you wouldn't have otherwise had.

And with BetterHelp, they make it convenient so that it's matched to your schedule and the other aspects of your life.

If you'd like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com slash Huberman to get 10% off your first month.

Again, that's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Huberman.

Today's episode is also brought to us by Waking Up.

Waking Up is a meditation app that offers dozens of guided meditation sessions, mindfulness trainings, yoga nidra sessions, and more.

By now, there's an abundance of data showing that even short daily meditations can greatly improve our mood, reduce anxiety, improve our ability to focus, and can improve our memory.

And while there are many different forms of meditation, most people find it difficult to find and stick to a meditation practice in a way that is most beneficial for them.

The waking up app makes it extremely easy to learn how to meditate and to carry out your daily meditation practice in a way that's going to be most effective and efficient for you.

It includes a variety of different types of meditations of different duration, as well as things like yoga nidra, which placed the brain and body into a sort of pseudo sleep that allows you to emerge feeling incredibly mentally refreshed.

In fact, the science around yoga nidra is really impressive, showing that after a yoga nidra session, levels of dopamine in certain areas of the brain are enhanced by up to 60%, which places the brain and body into a state of enhanced readiness for mental work and for physical work.

Another thing I really like about the waking up app is that it provides a 30 day introduction course.

So for those of you that have not meditated before or getting back to a meditation practice, that's fantastic.

Or if you're somebody who's already a skilled and regular meditator, waking up has more advanced meditations and yoga needer sessions for you as well.

If you'd like to try the waking up app, you can go to wakingup.com slash Huberman and access a free 30 day trial.

Again, that's wakingup.com slash Huberman.

And now for my discussion about mental health with Dr.

Today, we're going to discuss relationships and that will often focus on romantic relationships, but also relationships between friends, between family members, and inevitably the relationship to self, which is what we really focused on in episodes 1 and 2 of this series.

Episode 1 being all the things that go into a healthy self and how to understand what is unhealthy and healthy in all of us and make adjustments to the unhealthy aspects of our unconscious and conscious through really specific proactive behaviors and patterns of thought.

So really a roadmap to these ideals that we call mental health and understanding of the self.

Today, we wanna talk about relationships from the perspective of, of course, how people relate.

But I have a feeling it's going to have something to do with or perhaps almost everything to do with our relationship to understanding ourselves first.

So just to make sure that we're all on the same page, regardless of whether or not people have seen episodes 1 and 2, and certainly people do not need to have seen or listened to episodes 1 and 2 of the series in order to understand today's discussion.

Could you please tell us what is a healthy person and how can we ask ourselves the sorts of questions that allow us to determine whether or not we are healthy and where to look in terms of making adjustments if we want to be healthier than we already are, which I have to believe almost everybody, if not everybody, certainly wants to be the healthiest and best expression of themselves so that they can do the most for themselves and for others in

So the linchpin of it all, right, is the agency and gratitude as verbs.

There's a lot of climbing we do to get to the top of the mountain.

Once we're over the top of the mountain, then things are in a better place.

And even though they're 2 words, Agency is of course a word, gratitude is a word, but it doesn't mean that they're separate concepts.

Approaching the world through the lens of agency and gratitude, thought of as 1 thing because they come together and they come together as verbs.

That's what we're aiming for, Because that's the thing that we can work towards, right?

If you think about what comes underneath of that, right?

It takes us back to the 2 pillars and the 10 cupboards, right?

And if we're looking in there enough, we're minding, like what is in my unconscious mind I might not be aware of?

Let me generate some curiosity about my defense mechanisms and my character structure and think about what's salient inside of me.

Like if we're doing all of that, then What we're doing, we're building empowerment, we're building humility, and then ultimately, the expression of all of that is the agency and gratitude.

And it's something that we can't have enough of.

Like I say, what's the best amount of that?

Because we're going to engage in the world in the healthiest way.

Because agency and gratitude doesn't mean we're happy about everything.

If there's something negative and we can change that, then we don't feel happy about that.

The sense of gratitude in me makes me more likely to feel that I can change that, right?

Or to take the chance of trying to change that.

And then the agency part of that concept can come more to the fore and I can make the change.

It's not about forgiving self and others for all sorts of things and not working to make better.

It's about being in the world and being as aware as I can possibly be, including being aware that there are things I'm not aware of, right?

So sort of having a healthy respect and an orientation to the world that values truth and values understanding and exploration.

If we do all of that, then we reach the top of the mountain through the agency and gratitude.

And then what builds upon that or what comes from that is the peace, the contentment, the delight, the generative drive being strengthened.

And then the aggressive, or we say aggressive because that's a traditional term, but the aggressive or the assertive, right?

However, whatever word we want to put to that, that drive exists in us in a way that subserves the generative drive.

The same thing with the pleasure drive in us.

It exists in us, but it's subserving the generative drive.

And then all those good things come together, and they come together to help us be as healthy as we can and to stay healthy, right?

Including when tribulation or difficulties come our way so that we stay as best we can in the agency and gratitude as verbs.

And again, there's nothing theoretical about this.

And there are a lot of people who live some of their lives or parts of their lives through that, right?

And we can aspire to it and we can work towards it.

And if we're the best that we can be, then we're gonna be in our relationships the best we can be.

Think about it like you and I have a relationship.

If I can bring my best self to you, to thinking about you, to understanding you, if I can bring the agency and the gratitude, then I'm going to do right by you.

I'm going to mentalize this idea of thinking about what's going on inside of you.

I'm going to bring the best of all of that.

And then because we have a relationship, there's also an us.

There's a me, there's a you, there's something that happens between us.

And I will also bring my best self to that thing that is no longer just me or just you, but that isn't us.

And that applies to all relationships, right?

You can apply that to seeking health in every single relationship in our lives.

What you're saying really speaks to the importance of people taking a real look at themselves, which is not necessarily an inventory of self in the typical sense that we're used to hearing it, but rather through this lens or map of the self that was spelled out in episodes 1 and 2.

And again, for those that are just joining the series now, the map as we're referring to it is available as a downloadable PDF in the show note captions.

If people want to get that, it's completely 0 cost.

You can just go there and access it or just view it on a screen, print it out, whatever you like.

You certainly don't need to do that because here Again, we're talking about the core elements of that map, which if I understand correctly, arrive eventually at a set of verb states that we're calling agency and gratitude.

Those are not separate, as you pointed out.

Like there's a lot of things going on, but then it all uplifts to something, right?

And if we're doing it in the right way, in the diligent way, then it is like a geyser.

See all Andrew Huberman transcripts on Youtube

Dr. Paul Conti: How to Build and Maintain Healthy Relationships | Huberman Lab Guest Series