- The importance of writing good titles for YouTube videos is emphasized.
- The three click-worthy emotions for titles are curiosity, fear, and desire.
- Jake Thomas, the writer of Creator Hooks, uses data-driven research to help create better YouTube titles.
- It is advised to model people a few steps ahead rather than copying big names.
- Researching and studying different channels and industries is important for finding successful title structures.
- Jake Thomas initially struggled with writing good YouTube titles but eventually figured it out and saw success.
- Taking deliberate notes and studying patterns is crucial for finding effective title structures.

- The speaker recognized patterns in titles and categorized them based on emotions like fear, curiosity, and desire.
- They emphasized that emotions are what make a good title, rather than templated language.
- Trends in title styles have not significantly changed over the years.
- Examples of titles that evoke curiosity, fear, and desire were provided.
- It is important to start with a good idea before crafting a title.
- Different strategies, or "click triggers," can be used to create compelling titles.
- The speaker shared their personal research process and the role of fear in their own decision-making.
- They acknowledged the effectiveness of fear-based titles but expressed a desire to avoid exploiting people's fears and insecurities.

- The speaker discusses the challenge of balancing YouTube content and maintaining the integrity of their show.
- They mention the importance of using titles that attract viewers and discuss the use of fear and curiosity in titles.
- The speaker emphasizes the need to find a balance between clickbait titles and genuine storytelling.
- They suggest researching successful titles in a specific niche and incorporating similar elements into their own titles.
- Brevity is important in titles, as longer titles can confuse and lose viewers.
- The speaker shares data on the impact of concise titles on email open rates.
- They mention that thumbnails and descriptions also play a role in attracting viewers, but they focus primarily on titles.

- Thumbnails are more important in entertainment, while titles are more important in education
- A-B testing should be done after waiting at least 5 days to avoid skewed data
- TubeBuddy and ThumbnailTest.com are tools that can be used for A-B testing
- TubeBuddy allows for testing of alternate thumbnails or titles, with results available after a set period of time
- Chapter markers can be used to improve search results, but opinions on their effectiveness vary
- The Creator Hooks newsletter curates videos based on their hook score, which measures views above the channel's average
- Finding outlier videos in different industries involves exploring recommended channels and videos on YouTube

- The speaker spends hours on YouTube to find outlier videos for their newsletter
- They use the curiosity plus desire or fear framework for email subject lines
- They model YouTube video titles from various industries for their newsletter
- They aim for concise subject lines to avoid truncation on mobile phones
- They discuss the challenge of balancing emotional language and character limits in titles
- They mention the importance of SEO and using click triggers in titles
- They share a story about using negativity in a title to increase click-through rate
- They discuss the balance between writing for humans and search engines
- They suggest using timeliness and numbers in titles for better ranking and click-through rates
- They mention including objections in titles to capture interest
- They share a personal belief that using the word "and" in titles dilutes the story
- They discuss the art and science of creating effective titles, including being clever and knowing the audience.

- The art of writing a good title involves using contrast and building curiosity.
- It is harder to teach the art of writing titles compared to the science of it.
- Knowing your audience and appealing to their deepest desires can make a title more effective.
- The creator's credibility and experience are important factors in gaining audience trust.
- Many people fail to give their audience a good reason to listen to them or prove their expertise.
- Data analysis and research can provide valuable insights.
- Jake's newsletter and Twitter are recommended for further learning.
- Thanks were given to the editor, audio mixer, music creator, and artist.
- Feedback and reviews are appreciated.

The importance of writing good titles for YouTube videos is emphasized, with the speaker highlighting the emotions of curiosity, fear, and desire as click-worthy. They discuss the role of data-driven research in creating effective titles and advise modeling people a few steps ahead rather than copying big names. Researching and studying different channels and industries is important for finding successful title structures. The speaker shares their personal struggles and success in writing YouTube titles, emphasizing the need for deliberate notes and studying patterns. They categorize titles based on emotions and emphasize the importance of emotions rather than templated language. The speaker discusses the challenge of balancing YouTube content and maintaining integrity, suggesting a balance between clickbait titles and genuine storytelling. They mention the importance of brevity in titles and the impact of concise titles on email open rates. Tools like TubeBuddy and ThumbnailTest.com are recommended for A-B testing. The speaker discusses the use of chapter markers, the Creator Hooks newsletter, and finding outlier videos in different industries. They mention the challenge of balancing emotional language and character limits in titles, as well as the importance of SEO. The speaker shares personal insights and beliefs about effective titles, including using timeliness, numbers, objections, and avoiding the word "and." They discuss the art and science of creating titles, knowing the audience, and building curiosity. Credibility and experience are highlighted as important factors in gaining audience trust. The importance of data analysis and research is emphasized, and the speaker recommends Jake's newsletter and Twitter for further learning. Feedback and reviews are appreciated.

Jake Thomas is the writer of Creator Hooks. Creator Hooks is a newsletter dedicated to helping you write better YouTube titles by studying human psychology.

I read this newsletter every week, and what I love about Jake’s approach is that he’s very data-driven.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to research your own titles, how you can leverage human psychology to get views, some successful frameworks for titles, and why curiosity is the most impactful emotion to tap into.

Episode webpage: https://creativeelements.fm/jake-thomas/

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - He Is The Biggest YouTube Title Nerd IN THE WORLD
01:03 - INTRO
01:20 - DON’T Copy The Biggest YouTubers. Here’s Why
05:13 - How Jake Became OBSESSED With YouTube Titles
08:05 - The SECRET to Finding Patterns In Successful Titles
10:33 - The 3 Clickworthy Emotions You Don’t Know About
14:36 - How A Pro YouTuber ACTUALLY Makes Titles
18:19 - Sign Up For Creator Science!
19:09 - Playing The CRINGEY Game Of YouTube Titles
23:26 - Become A PRO At YouTube Titles
29:25 - Titles Are More Important Than Thumbnails (In Education)
30:54 - A/B Testing Titles For Beginners
36:06 - Listen to the Audio Podcast!
37:25 - Is This Chapter Title A Waste Of My Time?
38:26 - How a Title Nerd Curates His Newsletter
42:54 - Make Titles For Humans NOT Algorithms
48:09 - STOP Putting “And” In Your Titles
49:40 - The Art Vs Science of Titles
53:01 - OUTRO

***

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🌐 Website: https://creatorhooks.com/
🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/jthomas__

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TEAM
Host + Producer // Jay Clouse: https://jayclouse.com/links
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Creative Elements is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.

No one's going to click on our video if you don't write a good title.

What if the only reason that people weren't watching your videos was that you were choosing bad titles?

The best titles create an emotional response that cause you to click.

The 3, I'm calling them click-worthy emotions, are curiosity, fear, and desire.

And it's usually curiosity plus fear, or curiosity plus desire.

He's the writer of a popular newsletter called Creator Hooks, which is dedicated to helping you write better YouTube titles based in human psychology.

What I love about Jake's approach is that he's very data driven.

I've got a database of 408 titles right now.

61% of them have curiosity, 46 have desire, 40% have fear or negativity.

So in this episode, you'll learn how to research your own titles, how to leverage human psychology to get more views, some of the most successful frameworks Jake has found, and why curiosity is the most impactful emotion that you can tap into.

A lot of people, when they're just starting, they're

do some research, look at other channels that are kind of like them.

But I feel like a lot of people are also sucked into the trap of saying, I'm just going to model off of the biggest names in the business.

I'm going to go see what Emma Chamberlain is doing.

I'm going to go just like see what these people are doing really well and model after that, because if it's working for them, it seems like it should work for me.

And if not, how should I be doing research across different channels for my titles?

I don't think it's the right way to do it.

So if I got Emma Chamberlain's titles up right now, cooking, Ugg season, my childhood bedroom, it will be okay.

So like she has a title that's literally just cooking and that's all it is.

And unless you are Emma Chamberlain, that is not going to work for you.

Unless you have, let's see, 11.8 million subscribers, it will not work because it's just, just like a plain statement.

So no, I think that you should model people a couple steps ahead of you.

You know, like if you're just getting started, maybe you wanna model people in the, you know, 50,000 or 5,000, 50,000, 500,000.

Someone who's not like a just total celebrity and just has like, you know, so much influence outside of YouTube that no matter what, like they're going to be successful.

So definitely don't look at the people way high up.

Try to find people a couple of steps ahead of you, see what they're doing.

And I think that's like just definitely the best thing that you can do, especially getting started if you don't know anything, like even like, you know, how do I write my intros?

When you're getting started, all the answers are there, but just looking at what is working for your competitors.

And then, you know, as you kind of do that, you'll slowly get like kind of your own feel and your own vibe, but definitely the best way to do it is to kind of copy first.

Like people do like copy work, like, you know, you handwrite old sales letters to learn how to become a good copywriter.

People have been recommending that for like, I don't know, 70 years or something like that.

Don't try to model Emma Chamberlain, no offense at her, but it's probably not gonna work for you.

Try to find people a couple of steps ahead of you and do what they're doing.

I think that's good advice for creators of any kind, actually, because it's really easy to go and look after these bigger channels or creators or platforms in general and think, well, if they're doing it, it must work.

But there have been some times in my life where I've looked at, landing pages, homepages, sales pages of big websites and said, Ooh, this must be what works.

And then within like days or weeks, they change it because it probably wasn't performing.

So like, not only should you look at people who are closer to you, but maybe you should even reach out to people and ask if there's not like clear public data, you should reach out and say, Hey, I'm just curious how this is going for you.

Maybe not the first question in their Twitter DMs, but you know, get, get to it because I think that's really smart advice.

Sometimes people are succeeding in spite of not doing things the most effective way.

But also like if you're just getting started, like just, just do it.

Like don't let analysis paralysis, you know, kind of stop you from taking action.

Like when I first launched my newsletter, I had like a really, really ugly newsletter title or sorry, newsletter, like landing page.

Like my conversion rate was bad, but I got started.

And then I kind of asked around and I started looking at others and I eventually figured it out.

But just like copying like the first landing page that I saw, like it worked for me to get up and just get moving.

And another thing that someone told me this a couple of weeks ago, and he was like, you can't steer a parked car.

Like, yeah, when you're, when you're just getting started, like just move and then figure it out.

How did you get to YouTube titles of all things?

I've been in like marketing in general for like 10 years or so.

I was, I worked at a Facebook ad agency and it was, it was terrible.

And our, my favorite client, they were like, Hey, we're hiring a writer.

So I was able to like jump on board with them.

And I hadn't had, I didn't have any YouTube experience, but he's like, hey, you're going to be our editor in chief, our media buyer and our YouTube channel manager.

And my boss was like a really, really good copywriter.

And he beat into my head the importance of writing titles.

He's like, because we were a fishing channel and we had like spent a lot of money to send our fishing coaches out, you know, like kayaking or out on the boat, spending all day, like making content.

So we would, we spent a lot of money on our content And he's like, if you don't write a good title, then we wasted all of this money, you know, filming, creating, you know, fishing, catching all these fish.

And also, if you don't write a good title, then we're not gonna get any of the benefits.

Like no one's gonna click on our video if you don't write a good title.

But he wasn't like a he didn't know how to teach me how to write good YouTube titles.

I almost got fired because I was so bad at first.

And like, I actually talked to him about it like a couple of years after.

And I was like, yeah, like when I got started, it wasn't the best.

We weren't sure if we were gonna keep you.

But, but somehow I kind of figured it out.

And the thing that like, the thing that made it click for me was we were a fishing channel and my boss went on a podcast of a hunting channel and they did a podcast that was a hunt, new, newbie hunting gear.

And the guy said like that newbie hunting gear podcast crushed it for them.

He's like, Hey, we're going to do a podcast about newbie fishing gear.

It turns out that was our best podcast, like for the month, like for the past few months, that's when it kind of clicked.

It was like, okay, I don't need to be original.

I need to just like find something that works and then model that.

Like, you know, there was newbie hunting gear where newbie fishing gear, like we're just following that same model.

And then once I realized that I got on a roll and like, I finally understood, like, okay, like it's not all up to me to be like totally original and write these great titles.

So everything was, everything was good after that.

And then once I kind of figured out, all right, cool, like this is how you write a good YouTube title, like from a beginner, then I slowly figured it out and I was like, oh, cool, like here are the patterns that all of these successful YouTube titles have.

Now we can kind of get out of that box of like just modeling to like actually coming up with original content.

How did you go about finding these templates of breakout sort of successes?

Cause it seems like YouTube has just an endless amount of content.

So how did you boil that ocean and start to way fine to specific title structures that worked for you?

Just spending a lot of time studying YouTube titles, you know, going to a bunch of different channels And YouTube makes it super easy because you can see the publish date You can see how many views they have And just like just spending hours every single week for over a year, you know, almost 2 years now, just like scanning, like, okay, like, you know, this video is published, you know, a couple of weeks ago, but it has like a hundred thousand views.

All of the other videos published around it have like 10,000 views.

And then you take note of that and you do that, you know, a thousand times, a couple of hundred times, then boom, you start to see, start to see pattern.

So it's really just putting in time and studying and taking really deliberate notes.

How much were you looking at the same industry and channels in that same industry versus something that might be like a little bit orthogonal to it?

Like it's kind of touching that industry versus something that's completely out of that industry, but doing well.

Really just like trying to get a broad spectrum of industries.

Like the craziest thing is when I see, today I was looking at, it was like a hair channel, and 1 of their best videos, I was like, oh, I've seen this exact model work on all sorts of other different channels.

So just really just trying to get a really broad specter of titles and then, you know, putting all those notes together and like seeing the patterns and it's like, Oh, it really doesn't matter like what industry this is in.

Like, you know, regrets always work well or something like that.

When you're doing this, are you putting this into a spreadsheet?

And if it is structured, how does that look?

So I've just got like the title, the publish date and like the URL And it just started as that.

And then as I started to recognize patterns, it was like, okay, let me know what this 1 had fear.

Okay, and then I would go through all the other hundred titles that I had before.

All right, this 1 had fear, This 1 had fear, this 1 had fear, this 1 had fear.

Cool, okay, like 30% of these titles have fear.

And then I would start to notice new patterns.

So it was just, it's really simple, just in Google Sheets, it's nothing fancy.

Just as I kept learning new things, like all right, let me jot it down.

Let me see if I can organize this a little better.

And just so people are on the same page, you're not talking about the literal word fear.

You're talking about the emotional pull of fear, correct?

Okay, talk more about that, because I've heard you talk about some of these emotions that you think underlie a good title.

Is it fair to say that emotions are what make a good title?

So a couple a couple of weeks ago, I was looking at this guy's channel and he was struggling with his YouTube channel.

And he's like, Hey, man, like I'm putting in all the work.

I'm like, you know, my, my thumbnails are getting better.

My storytelling, my editing is getting better.

And I looked at his titles and they were all bland statements.

And the 3 I'm calling them click worthy emotions are curiosity, fear, and desire.

And it's usually curiosity plus fear or curiosity plus desire.

That's like the simplest way to explain what makes a good title is just curiosity, fear, and desire.

And there's a bunch of different nuances below that, but that's like the just the high level version of what makes a good title.

I like that you're focusing on kind of emotional terms and ideas as opposed to strictly like templated language, because I'm sure there are trends within language that work pretty well, but I would imagine they probably get stale also.

So when you're looking at curiosity, fear and desire and saying, I want to tie curiosity to fear or curiosity to desire, how often are you seeing trends like go in and out?

So far I haven't, and it's been a couple of years, so I haven't seen any like big trends go in and out yet.

Like the main trend that comes to mind is like a 20, like 14 Buzzfeed article, like 36 new podcast mics.

You'll never guess number 17 or something like that.

And like, but it's still using like there's curiosity.

You know, it's a list and those things still work well.

It's just like how you apply them people kind of caught on and now it's like, all right, that's too clickbaity for me But I mean, it's the still the same principles We're working back then and they're still working now and I've read a lot of like, you know Copywriting books from like the 30s 1930s 1950s 60s and they're all just saying the same thing.

Like it's, it's all psychology that gets people's attention and gets people to click.

Do you have any examples of titles that are pulling on curiosity and fear or curiosity and desire that people can kind of start to map this in their mind to what this looks like.

Just kind of to get like super nerdy here, I've got a database of 408 titles right now and 61% of them have curiosity, 46 have desire and 40% have fear or negativity.

So a couple of examples here, 7 things plant experts do that you probably don't.

It's like, Oh, like in that, you know, opening a loop is a great way to build curiosity.

You're starting a story, but not finishing it.

When you read that title, like, Oh, what are these plant experts doing that I'm not?

It's there's FOMO there, you know, which is like, you know, fear of missing out.

Like what are these things that these plant experts are doing.

How a pro YouTuber actually makes thumbnails.

Like just the word actually, it's like really simple.

You kind of feel like you're getting in on a secret there.

It's like, okay, like I thought that I knew how they make titles or how they make thumbnails, but like, here's how they really do it.

Kind of feels like they're, you know, like kind of giving you insider information or, you know, you know, pulling back the curtain there.

So you feel like you're getting in on a secret.

So that's 1 way to build curiosity, but you're also speaking to a desire.

So, you know, if you want to make better thumbnails, it's like, oh, here's how the pros do it.

So you have desire, you have curiosity by revealing a secret, and then you also are, you're talking about authority.

So like that has like some instant trust and credibility credibility there because this is how the pros do it

When you are writing titles for yourself or for other people knowing what you know What is your starting point for making a title?

It starts with the idea It's like putting lipstick on a pig.

Like if you have a bad idea, it doesn't matter how clever you are at like wordsmithing good titles or how good of a graphic designer or good of a thumbnail maker are.

If you have a bad idea, then you're just wasting your time.

So it always starts with the idea and that's the most important thing.

And then just coming from there, it's like, what angle do we want to kind of attack this topic?

And that kind of depends on what have we done before?

And like a lot of people say the secret to like creating content is just saying the same thing a hundred different ways.

Cause there are like, there are some ideas or some topics that just work well, no matter what.

So you just got to kind of ride that wave while you can.

But the secret is like just saying that a bunch of different ways.

So for an example, like let's say we're a finance channel talking about like picking stocks.

So you could say like how to pick stocks as a beginner.

Right, so you know, talk to beginners and like calling out beginners is a great way to get people to click because you're calling out a specific audience.

Not only is that audience like, like very specific, like if you're a beginner, like if you see like kind of your name right there in the title, it's like, Oh shoot, this video is for me.

But also they're like the hungriest, right?

They want to learn and they're the most insecure.

So, right now I'm learning how to play the piano.

I'm learning on YouTube and I went through a, through a YouTube channel teaching piano and I was watching like all their videos on how to play the piano.

After like 2 hours, I'm laying in bed and I'm like, wait, what did I just do?

And I watched all of the videos that had the word beginner in them.

And that was because I was like insecure about my piano playing skills, like rightfully so, cause I was a beginner.

And I felt that all the other videos were, they were too advanced for me.

Like, oh, you know, this song or this exercise is too advanced.

Give me something specifically for beginners.

Like I felt that like, like this video was just for me.

So that that's a, you know, 1 great way to get people to click is to just call out beginners right there in your title.

So if you're making your stocks video, how to pick stocks for beginners, you could talk about like, you know, the best stocks in November 2022.

Like I regret picking these stocks last year.

Those are just like a couple of different ways of saying the same thing over and over again.

There's like 31 and we've already talked about a lot of them, like, you know, revealing a secret, opening a loop regrets, it's just like fear, desire, all that stuff.

And those are just like kind of moves that like moves that you can make or like pitches that you have, like in your arsenal.

Like, you know, how am I going to, if you're a pitcher and you're looking at Aaron judge and like, how am I going to get him out?

First off there and judge, it's not going to happen, but, but you're like, all right, we know what am I going to throw him?

Like, you know, the sinker, the slider, the fastball change up, you know, and that's how I kind of look at these click triggers.

It's like, all right, What's the best way to get people to click and get people excited about this topic?

We had to use visual B roll there so that people watching this know like sports Aaron judge pitcher.

I'm also like thinking to myself, we've got to find some way to get video of Jake playing piano now.

After a quick break, Jake and I get even more in the weeds of how he researches and chooses titles and later we dive into some of the theories that Jake has that he's still collecting data about.

If you like Creative Elements, you would love my weekly newsletter, Creator Science.

I send it every Sunday and it breaks down everything I'm learning about how to be a professional creator.

It expands on the things we talk about here on this show, and it even goes behind the scenes of my own business and shows you what I'm doing, what I'm experimenting with in my own journey.

If you're serious about this, I think it is a must read.

More than 14,000 creators already subscribe.

So If you are not already subscribed, go to creator science.com and subscribe for free.

Welcome back to my conversation with Jake Thomas.

Before the break, Jake and I were talking about his research process.

And something I shared with Jake is that 1 of my favorite ways to do my own research is to pay close attention to the things that drive me to take action.

If I click something, why did I click that?

I have a, I actually have like an Evernote document from like 2016 or 2015 or something.

And that was like my first, like, obsession with titles and like what gets people to click because I was, that was like when I was really like learning everything, I didn't know anything.

I was just kind of starting to try to make it online.

Like, you know, this, this article really caught my eye.

See all Jay Clouse transcripts on Youtube

Write Better YouTube Titles In 54 Minutes (Jake Thomas | Creator Hooks)