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All right, we are back with Innovators Think Tank week number 9. I hope everybody had a killer week and is feeling like today's the day for some collaboration because indeed you are right. Cash Money Kev, Matia, Ryan, welcome on in. Nick, 1 of our guest speakers already in the tank, nice and early, right on time. Great to see you, my friend.

We'll go ahead and get you a speaker invite. We're gonna get a number of our other folks in here. We're gonna get rocking. We got some pretty exciting stuff. Nick, I welcome you to come on up, man.

I'd love to chat with you for a bit, learn more about you, your experience. I wanted you to be on the tank for a number of reasons. I want to share some of that with you. So welcome on in phantom. Raja, welcome.

Let's get you on up here as a speaker. There we go. Raja, how are you my friend? I saw you in the innovators lounge a little bit before the tank.

Yeah, I just wanted to like, see what's up and you know what we were up to today before we actually get on the space.

Yeah, yeah, sorry, we missed you. We're doing a little powwow, all together, a couple of the co hosts, but we're ripping it live. So it's really nice to have you. How are things going on your end? Raja?

Yeah, it's going all right. I'm a little bit crunched for my actual thesis work. So yeah, this has been like a huge de-stressing, like separate thing that I'm doing right now. So I'm really liking it.

I love it. I love it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Just for anybody tuning in right now, B. Steven, so good to see you, my friend. B. Steven's been around for a number of weeks now, and I gotta tell you, he dropped into our Discord channel and started out in his perspective, and wow, it's really nice to see you here back another week. You guys know the deal, the first 5, 10 minutes here, we're gonna make sure we get all of our speakers round up get all the businesses in here and then we'll get going.

So give me a quick moment and then we'll be we'll be rolling. B. Stephen always good to see you my friend. Nick and the panel slot is yours if you want to drop up you're you're welcome to. Luke welcome on in and Raja, always nice to have you.

So here's some questions to get the space cooking. What do you guys think of innovation metrics and what kind of metrics can we discuss about innovation? How do you track the innovation aspect of your idea?

Raja, I got you. Sorry about that. I was sending out a couple invites. I didn't have my mute on done yet. But I would love to invite Ryan Lamar up here to talk about some of that, if you would like to come on up.

I know we got him as a speaker today. And Phantom, just so you know, Raja, just so you know, Ryan, He did study innovation at a university for many years and understands this very well. So you asking these types of questions, hey, how can we measure and track our progress here is really interesting. And I wonder if he has any initial thoughts for us. We'd love to hear.

Ryan, if you want to share anything, feel free. No problem. No problem. Dave, Welcome into the space, my friend. So good to see you.

I hope Saturday's treating you pretty dang well. Always a pleasure. I hope Atif in the tank as well. Let's go. It's great to see you guys.

We're on week number 9 of the Innovators Think Tank. We're bringing in some pretty awesome projects, businesses today. Dave, there's 1 that I think you're just gonna love. I talked to this dude on the phone for about 45 minutes before this space. So he should be joining us here in a little bit.

1 of these tools are just really, really interesting. I'd love to share it with you. Same with you, Atif. All these folks that are using. I can't

wait, Josh. Yeah,

heck yeah. Dave, how are you, man? Very good, my friend.

Very good. Busy wrapping

up my newsletter for today.

I love it.

Which might be interesting for people, I think, when there's time to talk about stuff, it's about the definition of words. I think it's really powerful.

I can't wait to hear something about that. I love that. So I'll tell you a little bit about this tool before, you know, just ahead of time, Dave, because I feel like it's something you'd really like a tip off. Welcome up to the panel as well. It's great to have you, Nick.

Welcome on up, my friend. Hey, just so everybody here knows, this is Nick's first week on the panel, but I really kind of honed in and wanted him to come up because I felt his content was so relatable that so many of us are missing this key market of advice that can bridge people away from maybe working where they don't want to into creating their dream. I felt like Nick was preaching a lot of this. So even before I share some of this, Nick, I wanna give you the stage to share some of your thoughts or introduce yourself. You know, a number of people in this space are some pretty awesome speakers.

Yeah, so my name's Nick. This is the first Twitter space that I've ever done. So there was a couple minutes I was trying to figure out how to get on as a speaker, but I think I got it figured out now. But yeah, so just a little background about me. I'm

25.

I reached a $100, 000 net worth in about 3 years, just working blue collar. I'm a trim carpenter is my nine-to-five so I do like all the all the fancy stuff in the house like crown molding and built-ins and stuff like that. But basically what I did was I got very intentional about how I was going to grow my wealth. I developed a number of systems and really brought my education up and honed my mindset to get to where I got to. It was probably about a year ago.

I kind of realized I was like, hey this might be Super helpful to the everyday person because you know, I view myself as an everyday person. I'm I you know I have a blue-collar job. I'm just a regular guy. I got a family But I was able to do what I've done and I'm you know on a good trajectory. I figured You know, why not share what I've done I'm sure it'll help someone And so now I have this personal brand and I offer coaching, I offer digital products and I just try to share and contribute as much value as I can every day.

Nick, I love that. I love what you're saying. Just adding value to the community from what you know and what you've seen work for you is just incredible. You know, obviously for me, part of this think tank is this idea that we all have different experience. We've gone through different challenges.

We've learned different things. And when we can come together and start asking questions about each other's journey, about where our hard points are, you know, what we're able to do is really push each other forward. You know, collaboration is the new currency. I say that every week because I mean it. And the quality of these questions determines the quality of our results.

I think people need to understand that and appreciate the good questions that they get. And that's why I have you in here, Nick, because I think that you're going to post some really good questions, give some really good advice. I really appreciate you taking time on a Saturday to join us, my friend. I really do appreciate that.

Yeah, absolutely. No problem. I'm glad to be here. I'm really super appreciative of the invite. Just to touch on what you said, I think stuff like this, it goes a long way in demystifying stuff for people.

I'm speaking from the perspective of an average Joe, because that's who I'm trying to get at. I think for the average person, they come on Twitter and they see a lot of people talking about, like, oh, I have a million dollar network, here's how I did it, blah, blah, blah. It can get really overwhelming. Or, I mean, there's some super successful accounts that don't really provide that much value in terms of pathways to get to where they're at. So I think stuff like this is good for anybody to come in and listen and get a feel for how to do things, but also kind of taking away the mystery and like, okay, anybody can do the stuff that we're doing.

I love that. I love that. And especially when, you know, people can condense that experience in something that seems mystified and seems like, you know, a fictional world of success. If you can condense that down into things that people understand, action steps, things that make sense. You're right, it does demystify it.

And I love that idea. And Nick, even while we're just talking about some of the stuff, which I think is very powerful, I noticed Atif and Phantom got their hands up. So I want to let them chime in. Atif, what do you got for us?

Hey, Josh. Hi, Cash. Hi, Dave. Well, just an initial thought. Hearing Nate, a thought came to my mind.

When a blue collar hands-on goes hand in hand with the white collar thinking, the magic can happen. So, something to bear in mind when we are talking about innovation in regards to the blue college jobs that we see around. That's the entrepreneurial basis basically. So never to forget about that. Yeah, carry on.

No, I love that. I love that note. Atif, this is just, spaces like these, I feel like really create an opportunity and you know, everybody joining us right now, we have Samuel, Daisy, Uzama, Xavier, just new folks in the tank. I wanna take a moment to tell you guys, this is Innovators Think Tank week number 9. Okay, We've been doing this for 9 weeks in a row.

Every Saturday we come together, we grab projects, businesses, ideas, we bring them to the front of the tank and we collaborate with big thinkers. So you guys being here is just amazing. If you have any thoughts along the way, please do post them in the comment section, okay? Down there in the bottom right, you have a chat bubble. We have some moderators.

So if you guys have any thoughts and you don't wanna hop up on stage, just feel free to post them there. Absolutely. So I wanna go over to Fantom. I know he's had his hand up. Please, sir, what do you gotta say?

Yeah, Josh, thank you again for hosting this space every week. So I'm just loving this week after week. I like what Nick and Atif had to contribute. And what I believe is that it is the idea of problem solving. So when we are solving many problems, we come across a lot of successes and failures, but with the right intention.

Like I think that design thinking like unlock some level of like problem solving that regardless of like white collar or blue collar, right? It's just you operating problems in different paradigms. So I think that that is the critical aspect of innovation. So you need to like capture that creative aspect but learn to apply it in like different fields. And you know, like the analogous thinking in a way is very helpful there.

So, yeah, I love what like Nick has done and like the idea of like sharing this wisdom because I'm here. I'm here to learn and I'm here to see what these guys have to offer because they are the ones who have built the successful projects today, right? So you have to understand what makes that success. And then you have to choose how to make that even better tomorrow. So I think that's what the innovation think tank is all about.

I like what Nick's all about. So yeah, thank you for coming today. And I'm going to love hearing more about all the speakers today. So thank you.

No, this is wonderful. This is Phantom's, I think third week in the Think Tank. And also we recently launched a Discord channel guys. So we continue the think tanking even after the Twitter spaces. We have our co-host, they'll be putting a link up in there if you wanna go check that out, it's very interesting.

But I wanna say, you know, big shout out to Phantom. He's been in there really guiding a lot of that conversation helping to moderate that community, just do a wonderful job. So I want to shout him out and just say great stuff there. Also, I want to say, hey, we have a bunch of people in here. We're pushing up on 10 folks.

Hey, let's go ahead and get more people in here. We have our speaker, Zelis. It doesn't cost anything for you guys, okay, in the bottom right or in the upper right to share the link. Go ahead, share it with anybody that might be on Twitter right now and let's get this out there. I think there's plenty more folks who will love real-time innovation and you guys are going to love the business and the product that we're talking about first today.

I had the privilege of spending a while on the phone with the owner or earlier, somebody who's been taking this project by the horns for a number of years. And wow, Dave, you're gonna love it. Atif, you'll love it. Phantom, you'll love it. Nick, man, I'm excited to hear your input along the way and talk more about this.

So without further ado, guys, let's go ahead and bring up and chat for a moment with, oh, I see Dave's

hand up. Can I just ask a question before we start? Because we have different people sharing different stuff I think it would be good as we start to frame what people are looking for as well. Are you looking for feedback from us? Are you looking for opinions?

So we don't just become cheerleaders. How can we help? I think it's important to frame the discussion. So we know where we're going.

Yeah, Dave, so let's frame this up. So obviously there's a diverse array of projects and businesses and ideas that we can spar with and help, Dave. And there's also a diverse array of projects and businesses that can help us become better innovators. And I like to share both of those in the tank. And I think even with the products that come up and they share these with us, we have an opportunity to introduce the ways that we wanna see them evolve to work better for us.

That's exactly what I mean, because I shared Focus Drivers initially for feedback on where we could go, but when I shared it last week, then I know some people were like, what are you looking for, Dave? And it was more, I was sharing with other people, so I was giving some knowledge. So is it like we're here to consume or we're here to kind of balance ideas and spur?

I think today it's gonna be a lot of both. And anybody who's listening right now, if you guys aren't on stage, I really want you to use that comment section. If you have some thoughts along the way to share them. This is the innovator's think tank. This is the place where folks who are pioneering great ideas and bringing them to impact are here to share that with us.

And these tools are incredible. Some of them are much further along than others. And I think today we're gonna be in a position where we're working with somebody who really has a product in hand and is something that is out there. I think it's something that's very valuable. So with that being said, Dave, hopefully that's enough sort of framework.

I think it'll be a little bit of both. Just knowing the type of people that are in this tank, feedback is always welcome. We love that feedback in any business that's in here. I think part of being in here is getting that feedback from users. So I love it.

You know, we have Zealous up on stage. Gregorius now just joined. I believe he'll be speaking from 1 of those 2 accounts, but we'll let him come up on stage, introduce himself, and then we'll do a little bit of setup to talk about the work he's involved in. I do wanna say, Gregorius, before you joined, I was telling everybody about this tool and about the power of it to, I didn't leak anything or tell him any details, really haven't said much of anything, but the power of this tool in the new age of, you know, audio, all of us here sharing our value in real time, how we capture that and what that looks like. I think that's a good tee up.

So I wanna pass it over to the owner of Zealous and have him share a little bit of what he's doing if he's there.

I'm here, thank you all for having me. Can you hear me okay?

100%,

you sound great.

Awesome, thanks everyone. But I am Gregarious, I'm also in the, My account's in the audience, but I'm speaking through the Zealous account. So thanks for having me. I'll give a quick introna to Dave's question. I'm happy to share some of the things we'd be happy to receive today.

So just for background, I'm a repeat entrepreneur. I've done a number of bootstrap startups and this is my third venture-backed company as well. I think much like Josh, I actually spent a stint teaching in innovation and working as an EIR in some larger companies, as well in between my last company and this 1. I've been through the accelerators, did YC for my last company, was acquired in 2018. And then my current company has done Techstars here in Boulder.

And just to quickly summarize, I guess, what Zealous is. So fundamentally, you know, Zealous is on a mission to help solve for a very simple problem, which is that most folks who create content are not great marketers and most people who are great marketers are likely not often always the best content creators. And so what ends up happening ultimately you know from background you know I've been a creator since 2003. My first blog was in 2003, started my first podcast in 2004. I've done a number of podcasts and blogs since then.

I've also done a live streaming, etc. But what I found in that in that entire time was that creating content wasn't really the hard part. It was sort of the editing and curation and the packaging and the marketing, you know, as a solo person being a creator or as even someone, even in a small company where we're always strapped for time. I just never had that skill, that time really to dedicate, and honestly the passion to sort of dive into doing those tasks. And so what Zealous does is actually try to leverage both artificial intelligence and audience intelligence to help you eliminate as much friction as possible in the process of growing your audience and getting your content in front of the people that it needs to be in front of.

So we do that by a number of different tasks and tools in the platform. Everything from transcription to video rendering to dynamic summaries, AI summaries, etc. And very soon we'll have the posting fully integrated as well. And the ultimate goal though is to help anyone who makes content, regardless of how good you are at making content. And just for comparison, my wife works at a billion dollar startup, but she's like the 1 person on the community team.

And so she still has to go fish for episodes when she needs to find help to market things and pull things out. And so what I found is it doesn't matter how big your team is, you always you never have enough resources. And so we want to get what you are sharing as quickly and effectively and efficiently out to your audience and to new prospects and leads so that you can ultimately grow your audience, grow your reach, grow your business. Now, what are we hoping for today? I love this.

And Zealous, if you wouldn't mind, just Right before we go into some of those things that you're hoping for today, if you don't mind if I just add a little bit, just having used some of this on the backend, even before we kind of break into some of the intricacies of the tool, I just want to share with folks the power of this. We're all in Twitter spaces right now, and I can imagine you guys are in other Twitter spaces talking and providing incredible value. And what I would love to see and would love to see happen is you guys being able to capture that value and share it with your audience as well. The Twitter spaces should not be lost in the abyss And we certainly shouldn't have to screen record our, our, you know, the recordings of the tank, or whatever space you're in, in order to make that happen. And so this is, you know, very interesting, I think something that that a lot of folks will find very interesting.

And so, you know, Gregorio, so I'll give it back to you to share some of the things that you're looking to kind of get out of this today. You know as Dave had mentioned, but also I want an opportunity for folks to kind of get, you know, a deeper look at this and we can talk more about it.

Absolutely, and thank you Josh. And for the record, Josh literally saw us at Woodzell's as like this morning. And we did jump on a call for 20 minutes and I sort of gave him a quick tour. So, somewhat of a planted show, I guess, right? But that's always, not all the way.

But yeah, I guess like what we're looking for is ultimately, as Josh pointed out, everyone here is in a space right now. You're familiar with the platform, you're familiar with this shared role that we have now in content creation. Hosts are wonderful, and when you have a great host, you have even better outcomes. But I think these kinds of conversations in general with social audio like this, we all are part of the conversation. We are all creators in 1 way or another.

And so all of us are creating in some some form or fashion. And so how do we use that to sort of grow the relationships and the reach that we have? So I guess that, you know, things that we're looking for, we are live, we're in production. We've been going since Like basically like about February of last year. So, you know, we're definitely looking for folks to come and kick the tires and give it a try.

We're looking for, you know, suggestions. You know, right now we're in that phase where we've got a product And I would say we're encroaching on fit, but I wouldn't say that we're fully there yet. And I think some of that is really just picking, identifying the right audience where, you know, we can be that 10% better, you know, for the needs. I mean, I think we're 100% better in some ways, but some of it is awareness and some of it, I think, is sort of the market segment. So, you know, looking at strategizing and talking about like opportunities there are always going to be valuable.

And then, of course, if there are ideas or feedback that you have, we'd love to hear them as well.

That's amazing. I also, Gregorios would love to put an example in there. I don't know if you're okay with me taking the example or if you have it from that mastermind, if we can put it in the comment section or something and maybe get some of the folks to look at it. But the point there is this morning, I just wanna touch on this a little bit. I was in this group DM and I heard from the mastermind that happened last night.

It was A23 hour long event. I watched a 60 second snippet that was a beautiful thing. It kind of reminded me a lot of like, the memories that you get from your photo album from your iPhone, or let's say, you know, Snapchat produces like a short video that kind of sums up and highlights that month for you. And it felt a lot like that. But what it was doing was pulling all the incredible moments of that mastermind and a lot of the statistics and creating a meaningful way for folks to see that.

And that's, you know, for me, when I saw that right away, I thought, no kidding. No kidding. Like, not only is this something that, you know, is needed here right at the think tank, so we can condense our 4 hours into many 60 second clips and get other people some of this value, but so many of you are out there providing incredible advice, incredible insight all across Twitter in the form of voice in these communities. And I'd love to see you guys capture those and share them with your audience. I think that's so important.

I'm also, oh, sorry.

I just shared a couple of examples of those wraps as we call them into the nest, if you want to check them out.

Beautiful. And so guys, while we're kind of chatting here, feel free to look into some of those wraps. Of course, part of this feedback is maybe even sharing some ways that those wraps could feel a little bit better. I know there's some different themes that are involved and we'll get into some of that. We can talk about this, but look them over.

And this is a good place to start in terms of giving feedback, right? You're looking at a real product from that. And Phantom, I just wanna say 1 of the things that we were chatting about where, we're all creators here and we're all adding value to the scene, how can we capture that and let people have their own reciprocated value from that? And I think this is part of it. I think part of the things you're working on is truly it too, but this is something that really meets that same point.

So I'm gonna go over to Phantom real quick. Zealous, you know, we'll get right back into it. So over to you, Phantom.

Yeah, no, actually, Josh, I wanted to add even your points now. And even what Dave was talking about thoughts and definitions and things like that, because I believe that language modeling and things like that are very powerful tools. So when we transcript, when we try to capture dialects and try to help people capture their own unique human expression using AI, I think that we have to categorize it in many ways. I think that's the biggest problem we have faced so far, because we don't know how many categories to make that captures all types of humans. And the biggest complexity there is like, who do you define?

And, you know, there are biases there that get designed when we start out. And let's say the community like that develops it always has a bias because of the limited awareness of that community itself. But our ethics, in the end, should be more inclusive. So I think that Zealous is a very great app. I personally see it as a very powerful tool because it is basically like an information management or knowledge management tool of all my content on the internet.

But my question is how transparent is it for others versus myself? And can I see how much the AI and automation is actually doing on all the platforms because can I see the bugs because it may not actually have Posted or maybe the context was lost in the summarization and you know,

yeah

So a lot of those are very important

Absolutely, And I can't wait for you to get your hands on it and see more as somebody who is a high level thinker, a developer, somebody who understands a lot of the back end, get your hands on some of that? And then we'll discuss more about that front end and we'll discuss more with Zelos on this kind of front end and back end, some of the stuff that you kind of talked with me briefly about, Gregorius, on the phone. I think some of these folks would like to know. I do want to share that, look, you know, creating these pieces of content for yourself can be a heavy lift. And what, you know, he's pointing out is that even in companies, large companies of any scale, this is tough.

This is tough. And so, Nick, I want to resonate with you a little bit. There's a lot of folks who maybe are trying to get started on creating a marketing journey and do they have the appropriate tools to enable that? And I think part of that is tools like this coming to life. Faisal, we'll go back to you then I want to go back to Raghuram.

We'll start really peeling back some layers of the program and dive into it.

Yeah and I just wanted to add a very important point. So I think that AI is changing our future in a way where effectively we are documenting the individuals who have lived right now at the technological age, where AI is coming in and documenting our lives so much. That is going to be the true human documentation. The complexity of human documentation has been like written and culture in this way and that way. But information systems are getting way more complex with defining us.

So eventually we are living with a digital twin. And I've heard a lot of that term going around. So yeah, I genuinely do believe that we will have like a operating AI digital twin to move around. And yeah, I think we are quite zealous about it. So yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

I like how you tag in the thing at the end. Real quick, we have a couple new people joining the space. We'll do a quick recap. Billy, so good to see you. For anybody curious, Billy has been here since week 1 in the Innovators Think Tank, coming week after week, giving value, getting value, collaborating.

Billy's also been a prime member coming in first into that Discord channel, continuing the conversation thereafter. And so great to see you in the audience. We have Daisy, Telharin here, Delphi, Dulce, Luke, B. Stephen, all you guys, thanks for coming in. Of course, the Innovators Think Tank week number 9, we're taking projects, businesses, ideas, we bring them to the front of the tank and collaborate with big thinkers.

We have Atif up here, Dave, Nick, Hugo, Ryan, and what an honor to be here with everybody. So thanks so much for dropping by. Let's go ahead and kind of pop back into it. Dave, tell me what's on your mind, my friend.

Yeah, so I've already used Zealous a few times, so I'm more than happy to provide any feedback as well. And I do UI design and web design and stuff like that as well. I think 1 of the things for me that wasn't really clear on the website and on the social channels and even on this initial discussion is what is the primary function of it? Is it specifically Twitter spaces or is it any recorded audio?

Yeah. And I want to, I want to, let's dive into this sort of the use cases. And I noticed on the backend, there was a place where you could upload your own audio. Um, and you know, I think Gregarious would love to talk about that and even learn more about the ways that us creators and us innovators can leverage this technology to take what our key moments of value that we're giving on an audio level and deliver them in meaningful clips in our Twitter or on Facebook or wherever that might be. So I want to go over to you, Gregorios, to answer maybe some points from Dave there and then share any additional thoughts.

And then I got some questions for you and we can kind of learn more about the product and help push this along and then also get our hands on it. Sure.

So relative to content, in the system we call them sources. So we work with any kind of recorded content, live or recorded. That can be audio or video, that can be spaces or files, or RSS feeds. We have a few automated approaches though, So for Twitter spaces in particular, we can ingest them automatically. You don't have to actually tell us where they are.

For RSS feeds, you just tell us where your podcast is and we'll pull that in automatically. And then we support native recording in the tool now also, so you can record audio or video inside of Zealous. And then the third way to get content in is just upload it. So you can upload any audio file or any video file and we'll process it. I will say though, we are somewhat biased towards audio.

So we just started introducing more video features into the product, but we often are reducing things down to audio. You know, for example, like you can't, you don't transcribe video, you actually transcribe the audio and the video, right? So we, you know, we always are more often working with the audio parts than the video parts. But if you need, we do have templates for rendering video out now. If you wanted to just add captions or subtitles or something like that to your content.

So, yeah, it's not a Twitter only tool, but it's a great tool for Twitter spaces hosts for sure. Right. The. I think like, you know, when I think about the universe of content that we support in Zealous, it's really 3 kinds of content now. Right.

The first kind being, you know, what we'll call original content. Right. So that is stuff that is either created by you on another channel or stuff created within Zealous tools themselves. The second would be generative content, which is things that we use the AI to help you produce and output. So to Phantom's question, the AI we use, for example, can be used to generate summaries or to generate tweets, et cetera.

We also have a dynamic video rendering engine inside, which is then used to produce audiograms, which are basically just visualizations of audio files or as videos, but we can also recreate videos themselves. And then repurpose content is really in our, in our mind is like content that makes it out to the world. So that would be things that you post to social, that would be things that you publish on the Zealous platform itself, et cetera. So Those are 3 kinds of buckets. The way we think about content is sort of in those 3 containers, right?

Original content, generated content, and repurposed content. And yeah, from a source point of view, it's any audio or video, but there are certain perks to different kinds of media, right? So just the last thing I'll mention, as I mentioned earlier, we try to leverage audience and artificial intelligence. And so a thing like a Twitter space provides real time data. For example, you know, Phantom giving a heart right now is going to actually register and zealous and then that data input can be used to help us sort and prioritize where interesting moments are.

For example, I mentioned to Josh earlier, there's another little feature, you know, like that hundred that Josh just gave, we use that to bookmark in real time when the host thinks something important happened. And so when he goes back later into his admin, he will see that moment in this space as well.

And these sorts of tools, in my opinion, are just incredibly powerful and can only get better, especially if insight is given from the folks who wield it. Right? And so that's just, that to me is an incredible reason, guys, I just posted in the comments place of a place for you to go sign up and you can go ahead and link over your Twitter and get a look at what's going on in the dashboard. And, you know, maybe here in a moment, what we can do is kind of drive through some of that backend stuff. Um, Greg Gregorius, if that's cool with you.

Um,

Greg is totally fine also Josh.

Okay. Okay, cool. Yeah. I think, you know, Greg might be easier on my, on my mental. So we'll, we'll stick with, with Greg.

Um, Nonetheless, I think it'll be useful. Everybody who's in here right now, I do wanna do just like a quick recap here, guys. This is Innovators Think Tank week number 9. We've been going at this for 9 weeks, coming together, bringing forward anybody with the project business and idea and helping them collaborate in real time. And I'm so thankful that each 1 of you decided to join.

We have Billy, Greg, Ryan, Rosemary, everybody here. Thank you so much for taking that time. I do want to give Phantom a moment to go ahead and say something. We'll give everybody a moment to go ahead and if they so choose, connect their accounts. Guys, I did it as well.

Completely safe to go ahead and authorize that and work through it. And if you're able to get on your phone to the point where you're connected. And certainly this probably isn't the very first space you've been in, but Nick, for example, this is your first case, my friend. So maybe even a tool that you can use to recap some of the awesome points and some of the intro that you gave and repurpose that content to your audience. Right, and say, hey, the think tank was great.

Here's a little clip just some ideas but let's get everybody signed up. Let's get you guys over there that way as we kind of drive through and look at some of these tools and look at the way it's used. Not only can we give feedback but we can also learn how how we're using this and how we can create more powerful content from these audio spaces and really other platforms as well. So let's go over to Phantom real quick. I'll give you an opportunity to speak, Nick, as just a key guest speaker for us.

Nick, if you have any initial thoughts or relaying this to kind of your audience or your folks, any initial thoughts, we'd love to hear that, and then we'll dive in. So Fansum, over to you.

Yeah, thank you, Josh. And I don't know if like Gregorius or Greg will be like super happy with this idea or he's already had this idea. But yeah, so my concept is that he needs to introduce hardware into the equation because the idea that there is an AI means that he has to use the AI computation online. But there is also the idea that the content creator having an onboard AI or a hardware AI inside. Something like the phone is already good, but having maybe a dedicated hardware for all sorts of content creation with an on-board AI from Zealous and connecting you to the community.

That can make it like a truly decentralized social media community with its own hardware and software. And the whole concept is like, you know, you have this on-board AI transcribing everything for you internally, providing the privacy and security within your house, but there is no on-board things. But then the AI is connected online and it's using your information to sort out for you. So the idea is that it doesn't really kind of take any more than necessary information from you. And there is like some level of data exchange there that kind of helps us protect.

Because I've seen Alexa do this and like I know there's a lot of like you know Siri and Alexa privacy questions with these kind of apps so that is my biggest concern when it comes to like transcribing because I'm like I can use voice notes right I can just think of my ideas and just document myself anywhere and everywhere when I have a thought and then eventually come back to it. And basically, it's way more interesting sometimes. So that's kind of where I see like a hardware component to this. I even have a brand for it, but I think I will contact him in the DMs for it.

Very interesting note. Greg, what are some of your thoughts on his point there with the hardware component? I just wanna give room for that real-time innovation. And if it's not something you've thought of, what are your initial responses? Or if you have, what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I'll never be in the hardware business, just to be clear. But I think I do know what Phantom means. So I think there's different concerns here. I think having an app or something that runs on your phone, absolutely something in the works. And I think we will do that.

And so I think that's what Phantom is alluding to, sort of being able to do some of this locally. I do think the state of AI actually requires the cloud. You need access to, at least today, you need large models. And most of those large models cannot be crammed down to your phone or something like that. So I think, yes, we do want to give you the ability to capture locally and share into our ecosystem.

But the world is highly interconnected now. And so the benefit of our stuff is not for it to be private, right? It's largely to benefit you in getting your word out. There are definitely different tools that are focused on inward, like sort of, you know, introspection and analysis and things like that. That's not the game we were the particular domain we're in though.

Right. Like we don't like like for example do like meeting analysis or notes or things like that. There's an infinite number of features I think that are great in that domain. There's a lot of innovation happening in that side as well. But I think like specifically hardware is not a thing that we would do.

It's just hardware is just a terrible business to try to innovate in. It's extremely expensive. So it's just not where we would start. I'm sorry, I'll never say never, but I do believe like integrations to hardware and things like that, absolutely. Those could make sense.

And I think I, for example, the first step in that journey would likely be native apps, right? Versus, you know, or maybe plugins to some systems. But yeah, I think like if you're highly privacy-minded and you don't want your conversations to leave, then you simply wouldn't put them in Zealous to begin with.

Sure. No, what a great response and an interesting question, Phantom. I hope some folks are kind of learning a little bit from somebody who's brought lots of products to life such as Greg, executed, exited, and some of his thoughts on that. I saw Kugo's hand go up first. We'll go ahead and go to him.

Yeah. Hi, Greg. I really like the idea. I'm a very big proponent of repackaging content, especially in spaces, because it kind of feels like once a space is done, all the information, the valuable information kind of goes to live on into like a kind of ether and kind of allowing people to Repackage the content and share it in bite-sized little pieces is a very valuable proposition But I just wanted to ask in terms of like the flexibility of the Zealous program. So this space, for instance, let's just say that we ingest this space into Zealous.

Would it be possible for me, for instance, not having any kind of association to the count, being able to kind of get the kind of piece that I contributed to the space and then like share that on my own profile.

That is a great question. Thank you, Hugo, for the question. And yes, so let me let me explain 2 things, I guess, about like the philosophy of Zealous and then like my design principles, I guess, for the product, because I think they speak to what you were describing. And then I'll tell you about this specific feature. So when I think about Zealous and when I started thinking about Zealous, I sort of like saw these conversations that were happening.

And I believe like fundamentally there's 3 things that like we need to solve for for them to be maximally valuable. Right. So number 1 to me is that they should be accessible as accessible as possible. And so different people have different learning styles. And so as a result, listening is a detriment, say, to people who can't hear, right?

But other people, you know, their palette for information is better served visually. They'd rather watch something or see something. Right. And so when we talk about accessibility, our goal is really about how do we make sure that that content is available in all the ways that can service someone's sort of ability to learn best as best. Right.

The future for us also would include then language because English is not the only language that people speak, you know, much like Phantom was saying. And so I believe that content should be available in multiple languages as well, so that even though I may know English, it doesn't mean that I digest or learn the best if I'm reading English. So accessibility, 1 pillar of how we think about the platform. The second thing is availability, Which means that to us is that the content should be where the consumer is, not that they need to come to us to get it, right? So, Zealous tries to make content as available as possible.

And so, part of that is in rendering it in like all of the sizes and formats that matter so that it can live in lots of places. Right. So we support generating text, downloadable text, downloadable audio, clips of audio and then video in all the formats, square, portrait, and landscape so that you can definitely deploy it into different platforms easily. And then, of course, the posting features, et cetera, are also meant to help streamline you getting it to those places. That's the second A, I guess, in the frame of how we think about things.

And the third 1 is that it should be actionable. We don't believe that your time zone should be sort of like a penalty that works against you. Right? And I said the same thing to Josh earlier today that I love the live part. I look at the live part as the kindling for a greater conversation.

Right. And so all of us fortunate to have the time and the energy and the resources, et cetera, to be here right now. Right. That's great. That doesn't mean that all the people listening later.

Right. But statistically, the majority of content is not consumed. Lives actually consumed like in replays. Right. Should also feel like they have a voice, like they matter and like they belong.

Right. And so to your to the specifics, even of how this service is what you're asking for. We actually provide a site for you when you have Zealous for you to publish your transcripts to. And so much like say like a medium or a disk or a WordPress you've got an administrative interface that allows you to do a bunch of things with your stuff privately. But you also have the ability to automatically publish all of that stuff out through a transcripted site.

And that site, that transcript, we don't think about our transcript as a static document. It's actually an interactive document. So Josh got to see this earlier and Fanta was asking about this as well, too. You can edit the transcript like you don't have to use the A.I. The A.I.

Is meant to be an assistant to you. It's meant to get you a kickstart. But the reality is, if you see a word that's not spelled right, go change it. Right. If you want to break or separate paragraphs or emphasis, go change it.

If you want to react to parts that are being said, you can actually do that in Zealous now. And soon we will have the ability for the fans to come and highlight the parts that they like. They can actually, when they vote and bookmark things, right, they can already bookmark things, which gives you a signal that someone liked what was being said here, but next it'll be like Medium does, where you can highlight the words and just say highlight just that part. And then the last part, which we took away, we actually had it in the earliest versions of Zealous, is you can actually comment on the paragraphs or the words that are said in the transcript, turning that into what I would call a much higher signal community artifact because you are actually interacting and engaging around the actual words said by people, as opposed to sort of like starting and threading new conversations up on their own. Now, to the point about sharing those moments, Zealous supports 2 kinds of like media outputs for the consumer.

1 is what we call the wrap, which is a video that summarizes much like Spotify does. So we'll do 15, 30, or 60-second recap videos for you, dynamically generated using AI and audience intelligence. Then we also have audiograms, which allow you to basically turn anything you see in the transcript into an audiogram, a visualized video, or an audio clip itself. It's a permission thing, actually, if the owner of the account wants to allow individuals to render their own. However, we offer free accounts.

Everyone can have an hour of transcription and a few minutes of audiogram rendering. So you can import any space into your own account, regardless of that host being on Zillow and actually just cut out the parts that you like as well.

I love this. That's really cool. Thank you so much. Hugo, real quick, I'm just gonna do a quick recap for all of our new listeners in the tank real quick. I noticed we have a bunch of new folks, Azadi, Shadow Boss, Textile.

So great to see all you guys. Welcome into the tank. And Innovators Think Tank, week number 9, taking anybody with a project, business, and idea, bring them to the front of the tank, learning more about what they do, and collaborating, of course. Real quick, just wanna make a quick point. Zillis had pointed out that a lot of people listen later and there's no difference from that, from our tank here.

A lot of people drop by live and can spend 20, 30 minutes with us and then they got to get going on Saturday. But we get a lot of follow-ups and folks who listen later. And part of that engagement is so important. Greg, what you're saying is those folks need to have a voice too. Look, this is part of the reason, guys, I also created that Discord channel.

It's a place where if you're listening to a think tank that was already recorded and you have a question or you want to get involved, you can hop right in there and ask those questions. A lot of our speakers are actually in there as well and they'll answer a lot of that. So check out, we have it in the Nest if you guys want to give that Discord a follow. It's a great place to get in there. You can connect with other innovators, post stuff in that marketplace, but you really incubate your ideas.

And that's outside of this tank. So if you're not getting an opportunity to speak, please feel free to join that. And we're happy to get you all set up there. So just wanted to take a moment and say, I definitely realize people are listening later. For anybody listening later, you know, right now on this replay, catch us in the Discord, come ask some questions, and we'll be excited to talk with you.

So I just want to shoot over to Dave. He's had his hand up for a minute, been real patient. And Greg, thanks for sharing all, you know, some of the philosophy, the way that you're looking at this. Those 3 A's I think are pretty important and I think a good grounding framework. And so I appreciate you sharing some of that.

Dave, I wanna go over to you. Thanks for being patient, my friend, floor is yours.

Yeah, I'm

just wondering, Greg, on the repurposing of content and AI. I'm just thinking about the use cases because the biggest frustration is going to be let's say somebody I speak on this space and I speak for 20 minutes out of a three-hour space. And I just want to get my segment, but I don't want to have to scroll through every small little snippet that I went through and figured out out, or I want to find all the questions just before I answered with my answer as well. So I'm just interested if there is a way to actually speed that up, because I think that's the big intimidation for longer live audio is stick 3 hours in the timeline and have to scrub through that is tedious. So is there a way to actually alleviate that and make it faster?

Because I think the ideal of repurposing content is great in theory, and the practice of it at the moment seems quite dragged out, quite laborious. I'm not seeing a lot of saving time there at the moment. Then when you talk about having say a 1 hour transcription, if somebody dropped there in a 3 hour space that they were not a host on and they just wanted to grab their content, would that be possible or would they have already went over the limit there? So how do they speed it up? And then just the second question is, just to go back to what I said at the start, what are you actually looking for from us?

Are you looking for new ideas and innovation and new features? Are you looking for a review on the current features? Is it even to do with features or is it to do with the marketing of it and getting more users on board? How can we help you best, essentially?

Sure, so Dave, there's a very easy way to do what you're asking for. There's a drop down when you go to the transcript and you can choose which speaker you want to see. There's also a field next to it to search for a keyword. So you have 3 tools to help you. 1 would just be a notebook right down the time where you know you were and then you just navigate to that part of the symbol if you know that's where you were speaking.

The other is you filter by key speaker and you can filter by keyword and you can filter by both of those in combination. So we make it extremely fast to find exactly the part that you want. Now, if it's a 3 hour space that you were in.

I'll make it quick.

Oh, sorry, Greg. No, go ahead. I did share a picture in the in the bottom there of that drop down that Greg just referred to where you can see We had innovators think tank week number 8 in there. And I did the dropdown where you can see all the speakers. So Dave, if you just wanted to like click your name, what he's saying is it would just filter out.

Yeah, I see.

Yeah, it's

from that. Cool, cool, cool. Sorry, Greg, keep going.

Greg, is that just related to the host of that space or can anybody upload the URL for that space?

Okay, so yeah, good point. So when we transfer Twitter space, we have an extra set of data, which is very powerful, that allows us to automatically identify the speakers. And we do this through some of the metadata that comes about the space, but we also do volume and audio analysis to decouple. There's a process called diarization which tries to separate the different people and then we use the underlying data plus the audio data to try to map it. So that mapping on a Twitter space will happen automatically.

If it's Discord audio and you bring it in through the Craig plugin, that'll happen automatically. If you upload it and we don't know who it is, it'll label those people as like, we think this is person A or B or C or whatever. And the owner of the convo can actually change those labels to then identify them using either a Twitter handle or just by writing stuff in. Right. So that's that's the first piece.

Now to the other part you were asking about, though, like if it's a 3 hour space, we only give 1 hour for free. Not much I can do there. You don't have to be the owner of the space to import it, but you do need to be the owner to change the data about it. Because we don't want someone to bring the conversation in and just change everything about it and be like, hey, this is what someone else said. Right.

So there's like sort of an inherent ownership assigned to the host. However, if you're just going in to be able to generate an audiogram or pull out the audio or clip it, anyone can do that for any space. All they need is the URL for the space to bring it in. We have very affordable plans, I guess, you know, worth sharing how much all this costs. Our lowest plan is $10 a month, and that gives you 10 hours of transcription.

And so if you are finding that this is a thing that you do often, right? Then we hope you upgrade to a plan like that. Now, we also have plans for just time. So we don't want you to pay more for a subscription for features you don't need. So we offer both ways to grow the system.

You can buy more time, or you can buy a plan that gives you more capabilities, but also comes bundled with time. Right, so you have a option.

A 7 day free trial, right, Greg?

It is absolutely a 7 day free trial for any of our plans. And you can try all the features out, like right now if you want, or you can choose wherever you want to be, wherever is the best fit. And so we use the plans largely to gate the capabilities because folks don't need necessarily all the features and a lot of people just don't want to pay for stuff that they don't think they need. Right. But our system is actually a very utility driven platform.

So we try to ultimately have you pay for exactly what you need or as close to what you need as possible. So if you just need more time, you can just buy more time.

And, you know, I love this idea that price is only an issue in the absence of value. And so if we can all really see what the value is here, and I have a couple points from using it, Zealous, that I wanna share with you that I think could add more value to the project, looking at some of the outputs and things like that, just some notes I wanna share with you as we go along the way that could be helpful. So not to spend any time on price, guys, but there is a seven-day free trial. So you can go get your hands on this, see if it's something that would add value to your aspect as a creator on Twitter, on anywhere, to create these types of videos could be very helpful. And then also being able to know the person who develops this and suggest ways it could be better may result in those things being in the platform and you being able to use them as well.

So Hugo, thanks for being patient. I saw you had your hand up, then we'll go over to Phantom. I think you've been very patient as well, sir. So Hugo, stage is yours.

Thank you. I just wanted to ask about the user experience of this. Somebody who might not necessarily be aware of the Soundless platform, but would want to, let's say they participated in some kind of a space and they want to kind of get the audio snippets that belong to them, like their voice and stuff like that. And so it's obvious that that's possible if you're the owner of the space, but I just wanted to know how streamlined it would be for somebody who isn't the owner and may have never even heard about the platform because Twitter spaces scrape additional data. So for instance, it gets the usernames and you know who's speaking.

It would be really cool if you could go onto this LS platform and you would use your Twitter credentials and then like in that kind of onboarding process just by pressing a link. And then you would basically get all of your, all of the interactions that you made in the space highlighted right away, like without having to go down to a drop down and like that would make

it really easy.

You would claim your audio.

Not claim, but like you just see what you did, like very quickly, because it's like that metadata is already kind of part of that file. And so it should be really easy to identify the user that's inbound from Twitter and basically let them get their clips and very easily share that. So then I mean, like that would obviously be very beneficial for Zellis because allowing people to do that would obviously increase their, you know, the awareness of the platform, because I imagine that the Zellis branding is on all the clips and stuff like that. So just making it very easy for people to share these clips without actually knowing how the platform works would be really beneficial.

No, I love that. Greg, before we get you to just give us a great answer, you know, relay some of those points, I wanna say anybody in here right now, you know, we have a number of new folks. Hey, let's go ahead and, you know, it doesn't cost anything, not even a 7 day free trial to go ahead and in the bottom right, hit that little icon there with the chat bubble and retweet and like this space, guys. Let's push it out to more folks. We'll tell them we're here in real time.

We'd love to get more perspectives. This isn't the only gig that we're working on today. We have a couple new exciting things that we'll be chatting about and the community is growing and evolving. I want everybody here to be part of that. You know, we're building out a community of innovators, folks who are taking ideas to impact.

And look, when we collaborate, when we work together, when we help fill those strengths and weaknesses for each other. This is where great teams are made. And I wanna talk more about the rule of 3, how that kind of unfolds and touch on, how we can dissolve our ego to really, reach higher as innovators. And we'll do that after this segment. But hey guys, I wanna give you an opportunity.

Please do retweet the space, like the space. Let's get more folks up in here. So they choose. And Hugo, you know, appreciate your question. Greg, back to you for an answer, my friend.

Yeah, Hugo, I appreciate it. I think, well, I would argue, you know, discovery is probably our number 1 problem, honestly. Right? Like Zealous has been around. We've, you know, we've indexed.

I think we have, you know,

140, 50, 000

conversations indexed on Zealous. But, so I hear what you're describing. A lot of what you're describing, I think, is the flow. If you're a user, there isn't really an anonymized version of this, though, right? So like to sign up for Zealous, you use your Twitter account if you want.

You can also use like your Ethereum wallet or your email account if you want. It's up to you how you want to sign up. But if you connect your Twitter account, and actually Josh saw this today, historically what has happened, and there's some, The Twitter APIs have made our lives harder, not easier. So historically when you used to sign up for Zellis, we would actually go look at your timeline, find all the spaces that you shared or mentioned, and import all of them for you. We can't do that anymore because we just can't use the API that way anymore.

We do like we don't want to pay $40, 000 a month for access. But what does happen in Zellis is there is what we call auto tagging. And so if you spoke in a space of another Zealous user, and then we see you show up in there, it'll show up in your account also. So you don't have to do anything, like whether or not, You don't have to do anything to find the spaces you've spoken. When you the reason to connect your account is that any space you host, we will see it, any space you schedule, we will see it, and we'll be able to automatically pull it into the system.

And then you decide if you want to transcribe it or not. So I hope that addresses, I guess, some of the flow. Now, I think there are some, it's an interesting question, right, we have the idea of who's speaking when. We don't actually display that in the audio-only version because the truth is that most of these features unlock when you transcribe, right? Because like all the analysis and a lot of the other things are only possible if we transcribe it.

And we, unfortunately, you know, we're a two-person startup. So we can't transcribe everything for free, right? I mean, it's actually why Elon turned off captioning in spaces that originally was to save money. Right. And so there's a lot and there's not a lot we could do for you, I think.

Right. Unless it gets transcribed. Right. And so I think, like, you know, the goal is ultimately that we get more people on the platform so we see and aware of the content so that just in case Twitter decides they want to delete it or save space, whatever's gonna happen. You know, there used to be a rule that Twitter spaces got deleted after 30 days.

And so we were automatically just backing them up for it. We still back them up for anyone who needs it. You can get your content, your audio content from us. The other thing is we are also the fastest way to do it, right? Cause if you want to get your space from Twitter, you have to request your full archive and wait for a download.

With us, it's available a few minutes afterwards. Right. But I like this idea of potential. Maybe there's a way for us to visualize it in the kind of like a SoundCloud way, like of who's talking when. We just haven't seen that much demand for it, I guess, to be frank, right?

Like where like, like folks are like, Hey, I'm speaking a lot. You know, and I just want to go find the moments where I'm at. And so I, you know, I think a con a conversation is best in context until you decide that you need a different context. And so like auto filtering it down to a certain person, we make it very easy to do. I just don't know if it's the logical best place to start.

Right? And the reason for that is that since the AI is clipping and it, you know, it's maybe 95% effective, it may not be always right. And so what if it misidentified your voice and the person before you got labeled or things like that. So there's a bunch of these other edge cases that I think make it not quite perfect yet. But I like the idea.

I mean, I think at least being able to see who's speaking when might be kind of like, could be useful. And then using that as a way to filter. We used to list the participants alongside in the UI. We took it out just because folks weren't really using it. And I think also because we don't...

Probably a bigger framing point is just, I think when we originally started, we were closer to what you're describing, Hugo. We thought we could just make all this stuff available. We would be like kind of like a social network almost. And I think we've moved more towards like a multi-tenant mindset. We're providing less connectivity across things because we think that every creator is like kind of got their own universe and we want them to cultivate that and we're building tools to support them in that more.

I love this. I love this. A very, very great answer. I wanna take a quick moment. We have a number of awesome people joining the tag and apologies for the constant recap to our panelists, but we gotta keep people informed, okay?

So hey guys, Innovators Think Tank, week number 9, we're coming at you. We have Greg up here with Zealous, a fantastic platform. It's a two-person startup. Really, some key questions on how they expand exposure, grow to be a bigger company, but also make their tools more useful. And these are tools that are very helpful for innovators.

So This is a great speaker, a great project to be talking about because a lot of angles that we can touch on with this. Thanks for joining us today, everybody. You can go ahead and post your comments down in the bottom, right? Feel free to join our Discord and Twitter community as well. So I wanna go over to Nick real quick.

He's had his hand up. He's 1 of our amazing guest speakers today. Really excited to hear some of his input. And then Hugo, of course, having that answer from Greg, we'll give you an opportunity to reply. Let's add more meat to the bones.

Nick, over to you.

Yeah, I just had a quick question for Greg. As far as your path to monetization for your business, is the only way that you guys are planning on bringing in income is through that subscription service or do you guys have other paths for that?

Yeah, great question. So I think there's 3 revenue, maybe 4 revenue streams that we do imagine. Today we're a SaaS business, we have plans at 10, 25, and $50 a month. We have add-on utility, so you can add more transcription or more rendering time. So for example, you know, if you, we give you enough rendering for doing audiograms, but we can also take your Twitter space and turn it into a full length video that you can put on YouTube.

All right. And so you might need to render 4 hours of rendering. And so basically we sell utility credits that you basically use to render. Right. We give you minutes.

So every plan comes with some minutes. And so, you know, audiograms tend to be 15, 30 seconds. You can get pretty far on your own, like with just 5 minutes or 10 minutes. But if you want to do full length because you want to be a YouTuber now or you want to be a TikTok or whatever it may be, you may want to put out larger and longer clips, you want to go to LinkedIn, et cetera. So the current services we offer, transcription and audiogram rendering, Those are our 2 primary.

As I mentioned, though, we imagine adding more services into that ecosystem. So translation would be another 1. Voice to voice cloning would be another 1. Text to speech is going to be another 1. And then of course AI.

So we have AI actually integrated. We run a lot of it actually proactively for you behind the scenes. But if you want to have that more interactive experience or chat like experience, you will use AI credits. And then again, that would be another 1 of those utility models. So the plans are priced to sort of like accommodate you.

But the real growth opportunity, I think on the SaaS side is from like the increased utility. And as you see more value and invest more with us to see more of your ecosystem, repurpose ecosystem in particular go out. I think that's where we see room for a lot of expansion. Now, we are actually I'll share something here that I'm about to announce next week, actually, though, which is called Zealous Pro. And so what we found is, even as simple as we made it for lots of folks, there are people who just don't want to do it at all.

So what Zealous Pro is, is actually sort of like, you can imagine it kind of like an agency model where we will use Zealous for you and add a little bit of our intuition and insight into the process. And so you can hire Zealous through Zealous Pro to do more customization. So if I needed a custom template that matches specifically for me in a certain way. Or maybe you need a feature, and so the way we'll prioritize our pro customers over for thinking about the roadmap. If there's features that we can service better that help us move faster, we'd love to do it for that.

And I think that will put us probably more in that frame of, you know, my my ideal is to start those plans at a hundred bucks a month. But like we're talking to customers who would pay us like thousands a month because they want to do a lot of they make a lot of content and they want to put a lot of things out and we could help them with that. Right. So services, I think, is an area or an arena that we will experiment with. Starting next week, actually, we have some of our first people coming on already for it.

I mentioned 2 so far, though. So the SAS, The services is obviously another 1. And the add-ons is sort of like a third. The fourth though, I think is from transaction fees. So, you know, where I think we go with Zealous as we roll out our community features more, And I think to kind of what I was mentioning earlier, we imagine being able to allow you to just get rid of like a Patreon.

Right. Like and if you want to build a tighter knit circle and you want to offer extended or premium content to people, you can already create it in Zealous. You can already transcribe it in Zealous And you can also share it securely with people in Zealous. And so you can imagine that we have some transaction fees that might be associated with helping you charge a subscription every month to your own people. Same thing I think for on the Web3 side if you're in that arena, but say you wanted to mint and we could facilitate minting and turning your content into additions and stuff like that.

So that would be another bucket. And then the last bucket I think is to the extent that we then build a relationship with a significant number of creators and we understand their content, their reach, etc. We can also introduce potentially advertising as a final way. Not really ads per se, I think, but you could imagine ads running interstitially in your transcripts, but also potentially sponsorships

and

things like that.

This is awesome. Nick, before I give you the opportunity to come back live with us here, I want to say everybody in the tank right now, we're not just talking about something you can't get your hands on. If you guys look in the in the nest, you'll actually see the signup link, there is a 7 day free trial. I'm assuming this isn't the first space you've been in. And you know, if you have questions, and you want to post them or want to be a speaker, come on up.

But but, you know, I think for a lot of these folks, you know, this isn't their first base. And how do they capture those moments when they're adding value to a conversation? And then how do they translate that to the followers that they have that weren't there? Their community that loves their perspective, they love their content. How can they also capture those moments when you're giving unique advice?

I think this is something all of us could use. So I just wanted to share that there is a link here in the nest and a place for you to go check some of this out. Obviously this platform is growing and has a lot of cool places that it could go. And we would love to hear that from you guys right now. So Nick, if you had any replies, obviously he's laying out a couple different revenue streams, ways that he sees this going.

Did you have any notes on any of those streams? I wrote them down if you want me to repeat, or any other ones that you wanted to add that in your purview could make some sense. We'll go back to you, Nick.

I think I'm good. Truthfully, web-free and development and stuff is not exactly my wheelhouse. I know enough to get by, but I'm not extremely well versed. So I think I would be misplaced if I tried to act like I was an authority. But I was just curious about the revenue streams, which he asked that question.

So I'm satisfied. Yeah.

Yeah. Wonderful. Me too. And just for anybody, you know, who, I know we were breezing through them and obviously there was more than this, but the SaaS, the service, add-ons, doing ads, you know, and he also just mentioned for us the pro version of Zellist coming out to make this a lot more functional. Obviously in the week to come, we'd love to learn more about what that is and help shape that to be the best it can be.

Dave has been real patient with that hand up for some time. I know we have a number of speakers. We want to hear from everybody. Apologies that I keep cutting anybody off. So Dave, over to you, my friend, who go Phantom, we'll make sure we get all the points in.

We're in no rush, nobody's chasing us, except for a real-time innovation. Over to you, Dave.

Thanks, Josh. I wanted to delve into some more specifics. Greg, you were talking about exposure and adoption and growing the user base. And I'm just curious, what's the biggest problem here? Is it exposure and signups?

Is it retention and churn rate? Where is the problem? Because I hear about, we spoke about this last week, the kind of the endless possibilities. When I hear you talking about blockchain and advertisements and service models, I'm like, that's now distracting and diluting from fixing the core problems. What are these core problems that you need to fix first?

Well I don't think they're distracting at all. I mean awareness is not a distraction. I got asked a question about what my business models could be. But yeah I would think as all startups probably have in the earlier days, right, is you're ultimately trying to find that sort of inflection point where you don't have to push the product on people, right? Like where enough people...

Yeah, where they're magnetized to you.

Yeah, but I think more importantly, you ultimately want to get to that advocacy point, right? Like where they're like, you got to see this, you got to try it, you got to use it, right? And most people who see Zealous actually say that. Not enough people see it yet. Right.

And so I think like we, you know, if I were to assess, Churn is probably, you know, I wouldn't say it's a huge problem. I think it's our retention is fairly high. Our average revenue per customer actually tends to go up, you know, which is I think

some exposure on the initial signups.

Top of funnel. Yeah, I would say is the biggest part. Right. And let me share some of the ideas we have actually on it. And you'll love your feedback and your thoughts.

So I think there's 2, if it was a 2 by 2 grid, there's sort of like which market and then how do you reach them. Channels to reach them at. I think we're sort of playing with a little bit of that still. So Twitter spaces we thought would be a great starting point. Right.

And we started in Web 3 for clarity. A lot of folks maybe don't, obviously, probably don't know the history. We sort of got into Web 3 because, you know, 2002 is when we started building the stuff that you've been hearing about. And, you know, it was an interesting market. They have the kinds of problems.

They have the problems that we, they exemplify the types of used models, used models that we care about, right? Because there's more like of this demand or requirement for transparency. They're highly overcommunicative in a lot of ways, maybe like in bad ways too. But they sort of exemplified what we imagined was a really interesting user base. And I think that that user base has dried up or not become like with the bear market now and whatnot, you know, things have changed.

Then now the great projects that are still here, they're all still building communities. They're all still doing good things. And most of our customers actually are still from Web3. I don't think there's something wrong with Web3 or great about Web3 per se, like I'm just leaving that aside. I just think from a target market point of view, or at least an initial market, it's just not big enough for us to grow how we need to grow.

Right. So where do we go from there? Um, well, you could bubble out, you can bubble out to Twitter spaces. Right. And so what we're planning next, like this month, we will actually do our product release.

And it will be for like, like zealous for Twitter spaces host, right? Because we have probably the best, I mean, OBS, like we honestly probably have the best toolkit for like anyone who runs a Twitter space, right? And much like the people who are here are hearing about it for the first time, even when I talk to my own customers, half the time they don't even know the things that are in there. Because there's a lot of subtleties, a lot of nuance and a lot of things happening. We still don't do a great job in the onboarding.

But I literally will still onboard every customer. I email every 1 of them. So that's not the problem yet. Right? I'd still think top of the funnel.

So product hunt, that kind of thing is an interesting start. Right? Can we facilitate a bunch of people at

the top? Yeah.

It's small, like, you know, we're still growing.

No, I don't need numbers. I don't need numbers. What I'm asking about is actually the usage, right? Because from my point of view, I've created audiograms from Twitter spaces and I put them on Twitter and people DM me and say, what tool did you use to make that? I love this.

It's amazing. And I tell people, and it's great, and it's 1 of your competitors, so I don't need to name them right now, But I don't care what tool I use. But the problem is, it looks great to people. It took me like an hour to create like a 60 second video clip that people thought looked great. And when you have somebody like, say me, signing up to something like this, and it's too difficult for the value that I get back from it, the return on my time is the part that what I hear in the conversation is everything sounds, you know, and this look, this is my observation.

This is, we're quite a sparring partner, so I'm trying to give you feedback here. But what I hear is a lot of talk that sounds like absolute, that it's done. You know, you can go in there, you can transcribe, you can repurpose content. It sounds like it's a click of a button and it's done. And in my experience, it's never been a click of a button.

And where I see is 2 parts, is 1, education on, you know, from your side, education for people to see the possibilities, but a walkthrough video of like, this is how you create an audiogram with Zealous, this is how you create a podcast intro, this is how you create a sponsorship ad, this is how you do a YouTube video, etc. But I think there's 2 aspects to that. 1 is, you know, empowering users to actually use it when they've signed up. But the second part then I think is the actual perception of what's delivered. That where I feel for me personally that Zenith falls short for me at the moment is the visuals.

The audiograms that are created, they're not up to scratch for me. They're not something that I go wow, people are gonna DM me about this and say this is amazing, I really like this as well. But I think that benefits your brand as well for you're essentially making us look good and saving us time by holding our hand. But I think there's a clear indication if you're setting up a pro done for you service, well, then there must be a problem there for users to actually onboard. Or is it just that they're pro service?

No, I don't think that's a fair assessment. Is it for high profile creators?

Yeah, I mean, I

think that's a reasonable assessment. Yeah, I don't think it's a fair 1.

So is pro for, let me define it, is pro then for creators who are outputting higher volume, who actually need an overview service. It's not related. Okay.

It doesn't have to be that.

You could

just be a doctor who doesn't give a crap about ever touching any of this stuff, right? Or you could be, you know, like a social media team that's already overwhelmed or a community manager that's got 900 other tasks and you're like, great, can someone just do this for me so I don't have to do it? So I think you're right.

You're going to

have to do it yourselves.

Huh?

Are you guys going to actually do the editing for those clients?

We're going to use our tools to do what, so you get, so I think you're right that there's an education problem. Uh, and I think like, we definitely don't do a good enough job of getting you to success fast enough, right. But we're not churning out, like. We have pretty high success on people who do our trials. Right.

So like, that's why I'm not optimizing or spending as much time there right now, because we just need more at the top. Right. Um, and I think, I think you're Right. Like, look, we, like I said, we're a 2 person team. And so like satisfying every, every person's design aesthetic is probably like just a fruitless task, you know, for the most part, right.

Until we can get to like basically a fully customizable design tools. So you can just choose whatever, you know like look or feel or whatever's going to be needed for you. Right. Um, and we were, we're planning that, right. Just, just takes time.

Right. Um, so I think that, you know, that that's fine. Like, but folks don't like our templates. That's okay. They don't have to, like, we're not going to like ultimately event, like always force you to use the ones we have now.

We do 10 templates. We do, you can do as many themes as you want and we do it automatically in every size output that you want. So there are trade-offs, right? Like I know our competitors, I know you're going to go in. You're going to recreate the same thing 3 times there.

So you can decide. It doesn't take an hour. I was on the phone with Josh today. And while he was talking to me, he can audiogram and send someone. Right?

And I would argue that our target of customer for me is not necessarily you. What I care about is the 0 to 1 person. So if you're getting nitpicky with me about the design, you may already be too far down the funnel to actually be an ideal customer for me. Because the person doing nothing and we unlock all of it for you is actually significantly better off because we are doing a lot for you compared to what you were doing before, which was 0. The reason we didn't focus on creators up front is that they get more sophisticated mindsets and needs and demands over time.

And it's much harder as a 2 person startup to service them.

Greg, the point I made about the design, that was for the exposure for the brand. That was people contacting me and actually saying, oh, well, that's like, oh, well, that look and feel, that's zealous. Oh yeah, I'm definitely gonna go and use those. It wasn't

just like specific.

I wasn't, I'm not.

Use case of it, it was the.

No Dave, I'm not,

yeah, sorry.

The brand exposure.

I'm not being defensive, I guess. I'm actually just telling you, I'm trying to explain like the choices we made though and why we are where we are. Right? I'm a creator.

I'd happily sacrifice design for speed of output.

I agree.

That's the problem. That's the tree error. If you could sit down with me and go, okay, here's a simple way to take a tree error space that we recorded and get your 5 minute segment into an audiogram that looks half okay, great. If that's going to take me 10 minutes, if that's going to take me an hour on a mail of credits, it's like, you know, I'm not going to come back and use it again. The last time I produced an audiogram was like March because of the friction to create.

I have no problem paying for it. And I think it's the reason I'm bringing that up as well is like the competitors out there, they may be better on design, but if you could remove that friction of speed and remove the uncertainty of everybody's a noob when they use your platform.

Yeah, I agree. By the way, you spot on. To me, I agree. The thing I hate the most is our onboarding. I still think our first user experience is terrible, etc.

I think all of you who've been entrepreneurs here know, like you make choices, right? Like, like nothing's happening to us. Like we choose a poor experience in 1 place so we can win somewhere else.

The reason I'm coming at this from this angle is because I'm thinking top of the funnel and I'm thinking to work marketing. So I did it. And I'm thinking of you when you're going for those creators or any of that, you know, starts if you empower me to start churning stuff out, well, then I'm going to start telling everybody about it. When people are like, wow, I love your content. It's so unique.

It's getting you more top of the funnel. So it's going to-

Absolutely agree. Absolutely agree.

It's inoculating step 2 and 3 to benefit step 1 in a sense.

Yeah. Yeah. So even to that point, Dave, the new site that we're designing, our new home page, you won't have to actually sign up. You'd just be able to test it right there on the homepage. Right?

And we're gonna expose the templates on the homepage and you'll actually be able to try different colors and try the themes and see the layouts like all on the homepage actually. And if you want to even test a recording, you don't need to sign up. You'll just give us a recording and like we'll process it for you. Right. And I look at that as my acquisition cost, right?

Like fine. Like I'll transcribe something for you for free. Maybe I won't give you the whole transcript, I'll give you a few minutes of it, right? But you'll see the real thing and you'll see all the outputs and all the things and how

you- Are you gonna give them, are you gonna walk them or something like that?

We have a logo in by default. And then 1 of the first things we're working on is getting rid of that, like we're letting you be able to like put your own logo in.

Guys, sorry to chime in. This is wonderful back and forth. I think incredibly interesting progress that a lot of our panelists want to tune into. For anybody tuning into the Innovators Think Tank week number 9, We are on week number 9 of innovating in real time for a number of hours together. Collaborations in the new currency.

I'm so glad all of you have decided to tune in today on Saturday. Please keep an eye out for our Discord channel up in the nest if you're interested in continuing collaboration thereafter this tank. We got you. All of our great panelists and speakers are there to answer as well as our presenters. Head on over there to check it out.

Back to you, Greg. Apologies.

Oh, no, no, no, nothing at all for me. I'm happy. By the way, David, I do appreciate all the input. Don't worry if I sound offensive. I'm actually not.

I'm also always trying to provide context. Yeah.

And again, don't worry if I sound opinionated, I'm throwing ideas on the table. You know, it's better if you know your audience. So yeah, I'd rather make mistakes and you figure it out and you understand where the use case is coming from and you can see some of the confusion that may happen as well.

No, no, you're spot on. That's exactly part of

the value here. And so I'm so glad that both of you are just kind of coming to the point where it's like, Hey, this is, it's valuable to do these sorts of things. Dave, I really do appreciate your point where we're talking about some of the elements of quality. And I know Hugo at Thief and Phantom will bring you up here in 1 moment. But Zelis, some of my thoughts just briefly, now I don't wanna beat a dead horse or anything, So we'll let Dave's point stand alone.

But would be that I noticed with some of the generated quality that there was a number of themes. And remember we were working through my version today. And I said, hey, what theme would you recommend? And you kind of, you thought about it for a moment, right? And you were like, well, you know, and you realized I had some gold in that logo.

And there would have been a suggestion made. My point being is that if there can be a template that you and your partner work on that can really create a wow factor, the promotionality of that wow factor, you know, I think we'll do wonders for signup. Obviously the issues of onboarding and your design trade-offs and things like this are another discussion, but having that thing that creates that wow factor rather than a volume a bit that creates wow factor, I mean, aesthetically, could be very interesting. And I just wanted to hear some of your thoughts, maybe the challenges that you have in even creating something that's like, you know, 1 of those things that could really just get somebody's attention. Let's say you put quite a bit of time into something, you know, that, you know, obviously they can't customize and it's standalone, but it's really, really good.

I just wanna hear some of your thoughts and then we have a number of awesome speakers that have questions, maybe even notes from Dave. So let's just reply to that and then I wanna get more people involved here.

Yeah, totally. So I think you're just on the design front. I think we allow you to set up custom themes. And so those custom themes allow you to, there's 3 colors in the current templates. So you have a primary, a secondary, and an accent color.

And then you can also customize the font. And so this covers, I would say, probably

60

percent of the use cases. The next thing that I know, for example, that We have 2 other templates that have been widely requested and we just haven't built them yet. We'll do them soon. 1 is the ability to have a video background and the other is to have a picture background. So a lot of folks, they want to do, for example, a banner that's like, hey, our show's on Innovator Think Tank, Saturdays at 2 p.m.

Mountain time. And they just want that as a static thing that's always present. And then they maybe want the waveform or the speaker changing or other things like that to happen. Literally, it's clear it's an important thing. That would cover, I believe, probably another 15 or 20% of the folks who don't quite want, like don't love the templates we have.

The next level beyond that though, gets really complicated, right? Like just from an effort level. Because what ends up happening is most folks imagine something like Canva, right? Like they want to like, I want to put this thing over here and that thing over here and these other pieces under there. And that just is very hard for us to do.

But like technically it's also complicated, right? Like it's way more complex to move all the components around, position them absolutely, et cetera. We can do it. It's just like, is that what unlocks all the win for us? Right?

And right now I'm hesitant, you know, as a 2 person startup, right, to invest more energy there yet. Right. Like I'd like to have those requests piling up. Right. Like, and I don't have enough of those requests piling up.

Right. Now it's entirely possible that some people are like not converting because they don't have those features. And right now it's just a risk. You know it's just like this. These are risks like when you're a founder.

You're like so do we spend a month and a half to build that tool or do we ship other features that can attract new segments of customers? For example, like fixing features to make it easier and better for podcasters to do things. Well, that's a week or 2 of work to get 1 feature out. So this is just for folks who haven't had to do this, this is the battle we're always facing, right? Like not, I have the designs done for how to do the interactive design, our editor and our other fully customizable version.

It's been done for since, you know, the third month we existed. But you always have to prioritize. And so I guess that's always the challenge, right? And today's point and to your point, Josh, like we hoped that the organic sharing would be a bigger source of inbound for us, but it isn't yet. It hasn't proven to be that successful, right?

You can get a mention, but it's from really close people who love the product so much that they're willing to drop your name into it, not just let the logo be there. Right. And other you know, so there's just challenges to tradeoffs, but I agree. Like design is a thing like I started my career as a designer. It's not something I'm going to let slip.

But to some degree, because we deal with a lot of dynamic content and a lot of unexpected circumstances that folks may not anticipate, all of that, we have to cover all those edges. Right. And so when Someone's like, and I don't know if you've looked, but most people make really weird design choices that I wouldn't recommend normally, right? And so some of it is protecting them from themselves, right, and some of it is just purely the complexity of sort of implementing a fully dynamic solution to support them.

No, OK, this makes a lot of sense, and I do hear you, you know, on this this quality bit and David mentioned another program that you use that maybe to produce something a higher quality, but it took much longer, you know, took much longer for him to do. But I wanna share 1 thing is that the quality is what the other people see who didn't create it, right? This is something that is a function of, although it took Dave 60 minutes to create it on the other platform, it was the level of quality that drove people to send messages and likely gravitate their attention over there, and then let them feel it's worth it or not to put that time into those outputs. And so I guess part of the point there is The thing you're marketing is to me, at least when you're getting from somebody to 0 to 1, maybe the function of that this is really easy to do and the time that it takes to create is low. But I also think that the propagating of that across social media is a quality bit.

And so that should probably be, you know, really honed in on as well. I know you're a 2 person team and part of me, you know, wants to rotate a little bit later this discussion around, well, how do you, how are you going to grow out your team? Right. There's a lot of folks who, who love, yeah. Yeah.

I

just wanted to quickly, I know I've taken up lots of time, but I just wanted to quickly say on the quality of the template, that was like an end goal. And I think that's important to remember as well, that for me, I had that sunk cost of time that I invested, but I invested based on the perception and the outcome that I was looking for. I think that's what the design is, is people can envisage their own content and how they're gonna wow other people as well. And then it's like, okay, Is it worth signing up through a trial? Is it worth the onboarding?

And then that's where, you know, I don't think we need to be the most amazing ever, but I think to get that initial curiosity for me to sign up, it's like, like I design websites for a living. I don't, my portfolio is all the outcomes, the end results. So it's like, okay, if you want something like that, it's worth jumping through the hoops of speaking to me.

That's right.

And spending that time and effort. It's like, what do you want at the end of it? You want me to make you look as good as these people?

Yeah, I definitely hear that. There's this idea, it's like, if you're getting lost on the way to producing something that's mediocre, you're probably going to quit. And so you won't have that retention. But if you get, you know, if you're willing to navigate, you know that or maybe get lost inside building something that's absolutely phenomenal, which is what Dave saw the potential for when he spent 60 minutes on that program was, you know, he envisioned his end product. I think he probably pushed further than other users, Greg, who maybe, who maybe quit early on, you know, or stopped coming back.

But I know these are all things you're thinking about, and I hope at least us chiming on them. You know, it's not, it's not. The fact that they're new necessarily, but that you're getting other opinions and other people's voices kind of chiming in on this. We have a couple of awesome speakers. Daisy, welcome up to the stage.

Nick, great to still have you in here. Anybody who's just joining the Think Tank now, thanks for being here. This is week number 9. We're working through some incredible collaboration with these great panelists, and I wanna rotate back to them. They've been waiting very patiently.

So, Hugo, over to you. You've been patient, sir. What do you gotta say?

Okay, thank you very much. I think design is a marginal gain strategy. So at this point, I don't really think it should be the main focus because I didn't know about Zellis before this space, but when I saw the product, I thought it was pretty impressive and it seemed like it spoke for itself. So some other strategy that kind of allows you to get more exposure is probably going to be what you should be focusing on. And I think I have an idea in that regard.

Maybe as part of a subscription plan, because, you know, obviously ingesting spaces is not free, It costs a computer or whatever. I'm not sure what metric you use, but as part of the subscription plan, maybe it would be a really good idea to kind of let the user kind of set up this thing so that there could be like a zealous bot, a zealous Twitter bot, that once it ingests the space after it's been kind of spoken, it can link it in the comments. Because I feel like when spaces are done, they're basically dead. Nobody really wants to sit through a 3 hour space. But if there was a zealous summary in the comments, that would be an incredible feature because it allows me to kind of see what the space was about, to see who spoke, what the main points were, and that could be a massive kind of exposure value for people who don't necessarily know about the business.

So I think that's, yeah, go ahead.

I'm only giggling because, so we have that. It actually is what we're working on now. So if you, we've actually had for some time now, maybe 6 months, you can link your account and then write a tweet for us to share from your account after the space is processed, right? Which will link back to the zealous version of it. However, the reason we made wraps was that we knew again into this mindset of the 0 to 1 creator, 0 to 1 marketer, we know that most people won't even come in to do it, right?

So the first version of wraps, you still have to come in and generate them. But we're working on posting next week so that we can then post the wrap for you automatically as soon as the space is over. Um, and yeah, you know, we can do that for the free accounts too. It's, uh, we don't mind doing it. Um, and again, to your point, it is a great growth strategy.

In fact, another part of that strategy, I have an account that I just set up like this week, I just started getting ready to do it, but if you follow at zealous wraps, I've made an account where you can literally just ask us to wrap something for you. Right. So, um, and what I've been doing is just, uh, I'm actually doing exactly what you said, Hugo, by hand. Um, I find interesting spaces and I go back to them, even if they're not on Zealous and I reply with a wrap to their space. Um, and it actually has been very effective.

Um, you know, like a lot of, I've like, I've gotten in touch, project leads have contacted me because of it, because they're like, hey, what is this thing? Like, how do you make that? And so I've been using that as like a small, lightweight, you know, very unscalable, but still useful tool as an approach to that. And by the way, I will do the same thing for podcasters and other folks, right? Cause I can summarize and podcast the thing.

So where we are, I think like just from that growth, just double clicking into the growth side and how do we get the top more awareness? That is 1 experiment we're doing. We've been working towards getting to posting wraps out. And I will tell you the number 1 pushback on wraps. And I don't believe them, but I know people are saying it right is they want to choose the things that go in it.

But choosing the things that go into what mean coming into the tool. Most people don't even actually want to come into the tool. Right. But they want to choose the moments that we feature. So the next piece is like, can I choose which quotes go into the rap?

Right. But we'll give you that feature and then we will allow you to auto post and share. But if you need to come in to do it, then it takes away the auto part, right? And so these are like the dynamics that we're sort of always fighting, but we are building the ability for you to choose which clips go into the wrap. You can generate longer ones.

You can generate 3 or 5 minute recap videos. It doesn't have to be 30 seconds, 60 seconds. Those are just sized because they work on the platforms. Like you can't have more than a minute long TikTok except for whatever. So we gave you the limits by default that work for the platforms you wanna go to.

But if you wanted to share an hour long recap for a 12 hour space on Twitter, you can actually do it. You wanna put that on YouTube, you can do it. You wanna put that on LinkedIn, you can do it, right? You wanna put it on your website, you can do it. So we are working towards that.

My dream though, the thing that we're actually gonna finish even before that, is what are threads. So the way I normally do it, and this is literally like my actual design, like I am our target customer. When I wanna summarize our town hall, we hold a town hall usually every Friday. We talk about whatever we ship that week. Sometimes I talk to myself and no one's there.

And some, you know, there's a few people in the room. Right. But the reason what we do with that is I actually want to pull out 5 quotes and I want to turn into a Twitter thread and I want to click 1 button and post all of it with an audiogram and the tweet written. And we actually have that coming, right? So the AI highlights will go in this week, which is actually like chat GPT finding the best quotes and then also writing the tweet to go with that quote.

And then we can turn that quote into an audiogram automatically for you with your theme that you've pre-selected. And basically the hope here is that, and again, to your point, Hugo, I think this is, I look at this on a vector of trust, right? And to Dave's point as well, it takes time to earn trust with people, right? Like that they trust the recommendations our system makes, they trust that the tool will render it right. It trusts to your point that it will make them look good, right?

And that takes time to establish and build. The reason we built wraps is it is a low trust product. There's not much for us to screw up inside of it. It's actual things set inside the convo that were interesting, but because it is very short, you're not gonna be embarrassed by the quote that we find. Most 50% of the wrap is actually the data from the space, so it's not like you can be offended by what's in there.

And so that's why we designed that product that way. It was meant to be something used on autopilot, and then inspire you to come in and be like, I wanna do a longer recap. I'm gonna do a 5 minute recap, And I know there were some quotes I wanted to feature. Great. Now you can just go check, check, check and shopping cart through your transcript, find the best moments, turn that into a wrap and then, or turn it into a thread and we'll push it all back out for you.

That's really great actually. It seems like you're already on top of it. So there's

not much I can really recommend here.

We're thinking about it. It's a resource problem, right? Like everything seems to, you know, like this, we just launched on Friday this feature that now when you want to make your audiogram, all you do is you go to your transcript, highlight the words you want, and click the audiogram icon, and you can make an audiogram from it. But like, that's it, right? Like, ingest, transcribe, highlight the words, and you're into an audiogram.

You just choose your template, and you're out. Choose the template and the size you want, you're done. But that took us 2 weeks, right? We had to refactor a bunch of things just to get that thing to work. And there's still bugs with it.

Like we found a memory leak just today when I was working with Josh, um, that we got to go fix. And so, you know, like that's the hard part when there's 2 of you, right? It's just sort of getting through all the challenges.

Guys, this is excellent. Hugo, great question. Obviously your mind is in the right spot. Great thinkers think alike. So it may be, it sounds like you had an idea that they were already kind of pursuing and maybe bringing to life a tool that you can use.

Now it's

good validation. I'm glad other people are saying it because we're seeing these things as well.

No, I love that you're getting this type of feedback and even something that you're building behind the curtain kind of coming up with everybody here. I want to do a quick recap, guys. Look, Innovators Think Tank week number 9. This is a place for anybody working on a project, a business, an idea. Look, sometimes you take your project to your family, your friends, and you don't get the 2 cents you deserve.

Okay, you don't get that support, you don't get the feedback. Greg, you don't get somebody like Hugo pointing out what you're working on behind the curtains as a validation point of that. And so what I encourage is anybody who's in the tank right now, if you're working on a project, a business, an idea, and you wanna use this community to try to take it to the next level and spar with people like Dave and get insight from people like Hugo and Atif. You know, please, please go ahead. And in the bottom right, let's go ahead and push this space out to more people and then shoot me a DM with what your project is.

And let's get you up here 1 week to be a speaker and present. We'd love to have you. I wanna go ahead and get over to Atif. He's been patient. Sir, what do you got to say?

Floor is yours.

Thank you, Josh. Greg, first of all, for a two-person company, what you have done and what you're doing is commendable. So many kudos to you. And I know that quite a lot of tactical discussion has been happening. My general focus is on the business model.

I look at the business model, no matter what you call it, call it a startup, call it scale up, call it whatever. If the business model is sound, it is going to be sustainable. Now, those business models which appear to be sound do have markets. And when I was listening to you and your conversations with the others, I was constantly comparing zealous with or actually kind of putting against the creative economy, which is a market segment very much relevant for you. When I recall my conversations with the content creators from within the creator economy, I note that the influencing quotient is quite high.

They have a moderate to, I would say, high end capacity to create the content. But content curation is something where they fail but they don't realize they're failing. Now reading that market and then bringing the lessons from those readings or studies into your strategic thinking, to me, sounds like a very potent idea. So the question for you, which is non-tactical rather, are you casting a strategic eye on creator economy and trying to match their demands with what you are creating as Zealous? And then I have another question, but I'll go ahead with the first 1 first.

Yeah, sure. Great question, I think. So Atif, nice to meet you. And so for background, I've been involved in creator economy, influencer economy for quite a long time. I was like the first employee at a company called Clout a long time ago.

So we measured and tracked online influence and we provided a score for people. And so that was my first foray really into space, besides being a creator before that. My last company, Shoot, was a user-generated content platform. So I specifically worked with creators and fans, connecting them to brands as well. And then after that, I launched the first bank for creators, specifically for YouTubers and whatnot.

So I'm very much in that space, right? I understand that market and a lot of their sensibilities. And I think you're right that that is a significant part of the ecosystem. I think where I see the opportunity, which I think is part of what you're asking, is, and to some degree, I think what you're alluding to is that a lot of creators are fickle, right? And most creators are part time, right?

So if I were to describe who I think my target customer or my market is, right? Like my SOM, right? It's actually like independent solo part time creators, right? And that actually still numbers in the tens of millions of people, right? And the reason for that is, as I said, kind of from the beginning, most people just don't have enough time, right?

You know, and I think you're right. The creation part is often not the biggest part of the problem. Right. And that's why I actually use that framing of 0 to 1. Right.

I look at that 0 to 1 problem as the biggest part of the problem. Right. It's not the it's not the Mr. Beast with 80 people on his staff that needs zealous. Right.

Like I mean they may even still use zealous. Right. But the real opportunity is rolling up like tens or even a hundred and like 50, 50 million people who are, you know, creator curious, right? Where I actually see the biggest opportunity, right, is actually in a bigger generation of creators that I think is yet to come, or is starting to come, which are the, 2 parts to it I guess, right? Like us, like all of us here are the social creators, right?

But if you were to zoom in 1 level, most of the time what you find is the voices and the people who are hosting, etc., inside of these are actually domain experts, thought leaders, and other people trying to establish or enter the creator economy themselves. But their purpose is not to grow a huge audience. It's to, you know, to put it bluntly, to extract value from, you know, other ways, right? Like through consulting or courses and other things like that, right? Which is a significant portion of the thing.

And I don't, by the way, I don't view it as a bad thing. I like I just view it as like when people some people create to make money like by off basically create as a way to espouse their expertise and other people create to grow an audience because they want to monetize in a different way which is more like advertising and brand oriented. I'm focused on actually more so on that kind of person, folks like me, entrepreneurs, founders, et cetera. And so that's why, as I was saying earlier, I didn't focus on the creators because the more sophisticated you become as a creator yourself, the more I'm sitting in a studio, I have 2 4K screens, I have a digital SLR attached, I have a roadcaster, I have a mic, right? Like I know how to make content, right?

Like, but I'm still an individual, but I make it at this level because I want to impress upon the people and the people I work with the value and commitment and understanding I have with the space. But all this stuff, if you're an actual creator, you don't want anyone getting in the middle of your filters and how you crop and how you cut and all these other pieces. So servicing their needs, I would argue, diminishing returns in the long term, right? So I'm very focused on that 0 to 1 part of the ecosystem, right? And then after that, I'll worry about 1 to 5 and then maybe 5 to 10, right?

I look at us for a comparable. My aspiration is to be like Canva. I believe everyone makes content. I believe everyone needs help repurposing it. And I believe that regardless of the size of your team, regardless of your expertise, It's not like the people who know how to use Photoshop.

I know how to use Photoshop for 30 years. Right. Like I didn't stop using Photoshop just because I know how to use Canva. Right. Everyone can use 1 for 1 part and another for another part.

And that's why our pricing is actually priced where it is, because I want a bottoms up model where I want my average revenue per customer to still be $100 a month, even though it seems like you're starting at

10. Greg Miller

Ateef, back to you, sir. Ateef

Khan So that's fantastic, Greg. And I like your 0 to 1 conservative strategic approach because it keeps you humble but at the same time it keeps you cautious and curious. And I also like this create a curious angle that you just threw in. I think they are and you can certainly come back to that. I think They're the most potent potential customers in your case because A, they don't have time.

B, they can think about the content because they're being consuming content right, left and center, talk about Generation Z and Generation Alpha. But turning that content, created content, into curated content, which in turn brings the foot traffic for them on their social media platforms is demanding of a lot of thinking. It requires a certain skill set which Zealous, as I understand, has created a platform for, and that's attractive for that kind of a creator economy strata, particularly speaking. Now, you do realize, I know, because of your background and because what you're creating right now, that your most important strategic and competitive advantage is innovation. So my second and the last question to you, Greg, is, and this is personally interesting for me because I keep asking this question of so many people that I interact with, particularly who are running platform businesses, SaaS businesses, etc.

What is your innovation challenge right now? Single most important innovation challenge that you feel is keeping you up at the night and how would you describe that? Are you genuinely able to describe that challenge properly? So that's something which is my personal interest. So please, carry on.

I appreciate it, thank you. That's a great question.

Hey Greg,

I wanna give you a moment to actually just kind of think about that question from Atif. And I'm gonna do a quick recap for all of the new speakers that have turned over and new listeners in the tank. Guys, welcome into Innovators Think Tank week number 9. This is where we take anybody with the project, business idea to the front of the tank. We help them collaborate with some big thinkers, folks with different expertise, different education, different background.

And this all kind of culminates into a collaboration setting that unlocks new questions, unlocks new ways forward. And so we do this every week. We do them every Saturday at 2 p.m. Mountain Time. We come together, we bring folks to the front of this tank, and we push them to the next level.

Now, the collaboration doesn't end here in this tank, guys. We started a Discord community and a Twitter community that you can find in the Nest to continue this collaboration. If you're listening to this back right now and you didn't catch us live, come join our Discord, ask some questions. We'll try to relay them to the speakers and the presenters and make sure that they're answered. And we'd love to hear more of your insights as well.

So just to pivot on back, Greg, I'd let you go ahead and answer some of that. I love Atif's question. I'm personally interested in that that question as well. So I'll double it down and ask it again sir. We'll let you have the stage.

Yeah that's a great question. So I'll dip into my time teaching innovation to corporates And I use a framework that I've sort of curated over the years. I call it the 4 P's. Right. And the first P is perspective.

The second P is persona. The third P is process. And the fourth, the last P is product. Right. And ultimately this drives from like my fundamental belief that all innovation is driven by 1 of 2 things.

It's either culture or technology. Right. And culture breaks down into either is really like what do we value and who values it. And then the right hand side is the technology, which is like, how do we make it and what do we make? Right.

So those are what the 4 Ps are. And so I use this framework with corporations, Fortune 500s, et cetera, right. Like to sort of show them where their weaknesses are. Right. So a lot of times innovation is about finding opportunity and then to get to the opportunities about overcoming some internal challenge.

Right. So for us I would say, you know, Persona is still a little bit of a challenge for us, right? Like, as I mentioned earlier, it's like, which market is the right market, right? Because Creator Curious is great, but it's still broad, right? Like, there's a lot of people that fit into that bucket, right?

There's, you know, there's tweens that want to be creators and there's doctors that want to be creators. Right. And so which 1 of those provides a rich enough or fertile enough sort of like opportunity or at least a stacking opportunity to sort of get to bigger and bigger market. Right. I don't think we're we're weak on product per se but I will say I will say that I that actually the thing that Dave raised and you know is is sort of related to this is that the sensibilities of people is a very difficult thing to service.

And we were using the word aesthetic, quality. I would break that up actually up into 2 words, right? I think there is the quality, which is like, is it good? Does it work right? Right.

But there's also the aesthetics. And I think aesthetics is a, you know, much like scaling memes and scaling other things like that. They're very difficult to do from a software level. They're very human things. And so I think that that presents a challenge to us ultimately because I think also from an innovation point of view, being 2 people, the process part, how we make it, which I think involves the people you have on hand to do things but also there.

I would say that that's also like you know I wouldn't say it's a problem we can't overcome over time. But you know when you're kind of you know you know not like massively funded you know you have to do a lot with a little and you have to prioritize. And that prioritization is ultimately a strength and a weakness. Right. It makes you make better choices, actually.

But at the same time, it can make the market feel like you're not listening. Right. So I think that those are some of the challenges I would say we have. I would also say like just an existential thing is AI has evolved so quickly, right, like that every day there are just as many small teams like me doing things right and eating or nibbling some place and you know the the the the wedge the thing that gets you in is never that the place you went right. And So if we're on the wrong wedge, part of the wedge right now, like we have a lot of work to do.

You know, Twitter spaces, for example, like is an existential threat to us, right? We don't know. Sometimes it seems like it's gonna be here forever. And sometimes, you know, you have to wonder, is it gonna go away tomorrow, right? And that's why we're actually actively working away from Twitter spaces, because not because we don't love Twitter spaces, we love it, it's the richest data set we have, but because we just, we can't have our whole bed sort of built on top of it, right?

So I'll share 1 little bit of alpha, a feature coming. It'll be here. What month is it now? June or July? Right.

Crap. It'll be here in August. But to Atif's point, we've often I've glossed over how hard easy it is to be a creator. I say, like, most people think it's easy to be

a creator.

I don't think that's true, actually. What I will say is this, I'll give you an example. If I were to say, hey, go make a piece of content, your first thing you'll say to me is like, what should I talk about? Right. And so when you think about the Creator Curious, especially domain experts and professionals, but I would argue even people who know how to make content, they often find themselves wondering, what should I make content about?

So we actually have a new feature coming out. We're already testing it, but it's called follow-ups. And so alongside the highlights, the quotes that we pull out for you, the next thing we will do is we will pull out the questions that you should answer. So we actually analyze the content you already created and then basically provide the tools to record and create them natively so that you now have a sort of flywheel, right? Because you make a new piece of content with us, it goes back into Zealous, it gets processed the same way, and then the thing that comes out the other end now offers new options and new branches for you to pursue.

And the small insight, very subtle insight here is, if I ask you a question as an expert, you will always have an answer. But if I tell you to make a piece of content, you'll sit there and stare at me. And so we're just going to ask you questions and give you the tools to record it, and then give you the tools to repurpose it automatically also.

I love this. Thank you so much. And Atif, obviously you and I asked the same question if you look at the nature of it, I wanted to double down on you. Do you feel like he kind of pointed out the, I know he brought up the 4 Ps and then kind of laid out some of his struggles within, you know, the 2 of those specifically. Latif, I want to hear from you, you know, some feedback on, you know, his point there.

And then also, do you feel like very clearly he put out, you know, what is his biggest holdup with innovation? If so, I want you to restate it.

Yes, Josh. Thank you, Greg, by the way. Those were great insights. I really appreciate them. And to your point, Josh, innovation is tough.

And even constantly thinking about the innovation aspects of your business, particularly the service enterprise. They come with great many pains as Greg also pointed out. What is important for innovation I think in my personal view and based on my experience never to lose sight of the fact that you have to continue to think. You have to continue to be critical about what you're doing, about your product, about your platform. Be its genuine critique and critic at all times.

And that's what I've seen where most startups fail, particularly they fail on 2 fronts from my point of view. They start forgetting the rules of business physics. They think, for example, the expenses are somebody else's problem, which is sinister. And B, they think that they have already innovated. So they stand on the pedestal of innovation achieved and they stop thinking about innovation anymore.

Peter Trager said many, many years ago that there are only 2 responsibilities that businesses have in order to survive and sustain. 1 is marketing, the other 1 is innovation. So that's why innovation is quite a focus. And I'm glad that the way Greg described his way of thinking does give me an idea that how conscious and cautious he is about the platform that he has built. And as long as you are consciously following that critical thinking, innovation will happen at the right time, at the right moment, with the right kind of mindset, basically.

It's not an easy market to reach. So it will require quite a lot of in-depth study on a continuous basis. But thank you so much for sharing those. I know that If I were speaking with any listed company CEO, they would say, well, those are confidential insights I can't share with you, but you were too generous to share those insights. So thank you so much, Greg.

Appreciate it and all the best.

Yeah, yeah. Oh man, this is awesome, Atif. And I really appreciate some of your feedback here. You're so right on these business physics and how it goes from our ideation to actual impact and then the management thereof of the business is so interesting. Like so often folks, the company's birthed off that initial innovation, but then it stops there.

Part of the reason for some of this tank is because I want to demystify the idea of innovation. I think all too often folks, you know, think that it only exists in the upper boardrooms and in the tech gurus and sometimes you see it on the side of a painting truck or a electric truck, what does it mean? You know, and innovation is the transformation of ideas to impact. And I want people to realize that we're innovating every day. You're innovating in your personal life, you're innovating your health, your wealth, your community, your family, your wallet, all of it.

And what we need to start doing is reimagining and re-understanding the novelty that we express each day. And that's just part of the language and what I want to push on people. You know, obviously, with some of what you're talking about, Greg, there's this element of, that I just want to share. And then we're going to go over to Phantom. He's been real patient having his hand up as well.

But just something that I wanted to share, of course, I want to let you talk to Atif as well on some of his points. But it seems to me that some of the bottleneck here that you're talking about, we always go back to the fact that you're a two-person startup, which obviously without the resources, let's say to expand that some folks kind of stop there and say, hey, you know, we're a two-person team. We're doing the best we can to fulfill the need, the need and demands of our current customers, as well as build something for a certain archetype of customer in the future. But are you guys consistently looking at how you expand your team? And like, let's say there's people who are watching this think tank back with development experience with the experience in, you know, maybe a passion for helping creators express themselves in deeper ways.

What, you know, are you guys growing your team right now is sort of an interesting thing that I wanna talk about at some point here and also wanna give you an opportunity to reply to Atif. So floor is yours, Greg.

Yeah, no, I definitely can speak to all of them. Yeah, Atif, look, we build in public, it's a new modality, I guess, for companies. Well, our roadmap is public, by the way. You go to roadmap.zealous.app. You can suggest features that you want or request ideas and our change log is there.

You can see what happens from week to week with the product. We hold customer workshops every quarter and sort of show them everything we've thought about to validate and help prioritize. So I think it's just important, you know, ultimately to build the right things, to build them with the people that need to use them. I was gonna say a couple of things like, points like, you know, I've never worked in a corporation. I've never been in the corporate world actually.

I've always been a startup founder. I got into the innovation work I did by trying to teach, literally to teach corporations how I would disrupt them. Right. And so the framework I use is just like the design patterns I observed and like how did we enter this space? How did I make this company, etc.

Just the last funny anecdote. I joke about this all the time, but I've been building stuff on the Internet for, I don't know, since

1996.

And I, you know, this is the first time I've ever sold anything on the Internet. You know and it is an eye awakening experience right because you know I've sold myself on the Internet I guess right like by generating leads and whatnot or I've had like sort of mid market or enterprise sort of startups. But this is the first time I'm literally selling something over the counter. And I will tell you, I almost cried the first time we sold our first customer sign up for 10 bucks. And it was 5 times more painful when the first 1 churned.

Right. And it's freaking 10 bucks. Right. Like, but, you know, like it's a new tool. It's a new area for me to be working in as a domain.

But I enjoy it, you know, as part of what makes the challenge interesting. Now to your question about scaling, Josh, we weren't just 2. We've had contractors here and there, but right now it's only 2 of us plus our designers have time. And I've had I've run a 50 person dev shop in New Delhi. I led 50 Ruby on Rails engineers way back.

My last company, we were 50 engineers scattered across our

50,

you know, person team with sales teams, etc. Across the world. So I know we can be bigger. I don't want to be bigger. The cycle and the turnaround is actually much faster, you know, as you get bigger, you know, so the smaller the loop, the smaller the amount of levels between the 2, the team, the better.

And I think without product market fit, most of those resources are probably going to waste. Right? So there's no point in having like, you know, 5 engineers when we haven't even figured out what we're making yet. Right? And like I said, I think I know what we're making.

Right? But like, I won't count it as we know until it's selling much better. Right? So I think the team is small on purpose, not, well also resource wise, but it's also small on purpose, right? I can pair with my co-founder, you know, most days.

He's in Prague by the way, so my days usually start at 2.30 or 3.00 a.m. Now, like and we will pair like for his entire day You know and we'll share ideas or I'll work with our designer and I'll be in Figma half the time and I'll be in You know visual studio like the other half of the time, right? So I think like folks miss sometimes often miss a line like like headcount to indicate commitment or value or something like that. And I guess if you're getting acquired. Sure.

You know each engineer is worth a certain amount of money and product people like me aren't usually that valuable. But I think we're small because we are being intentional. Right. And I think you know we're probably going to try to raise another round but even now like I'm doing things to extend runway. Right.

And I want to have as much time as I can to figure out what's right and get it to the place that I need to be. And I don't plan to actually really try to raise money again until we're break even.

Yeah, and I guess some of that was not the cliche of scale, you know, just say the word

scale.

Oh, no, no, no.

Yeah. No, no. But part of it was this real thing I noticed along the way when we were talking, I was making some notes and just kind of chatting with you. I noticed a lot of it was, hey, you know, we're only 2 people and here we would do this for the customers or our users But we're only 2 people and along those ways when those bottlenecks come they could open up into much bigger customer Opportunities if you can fulfill them in the timing need Timing is such an interesting function of a successful startup as well, even when it comes to innovating and bringing new products underneath their brand to customers. And even some great great founders, Bill Gross is 1 that we kind of quote here in the tank a lot is that he pointed out with you know looking at thousands of startups that timing was actually the most important factor.

For sure.

So if you're able to execute on the demand when you see that you need it, when there's excitement for it, right, there's that desirability clearly right there, even expressed by a few people, which we need to be more careful of when, you know, there's only limited numbers of people demanding something, it's not ever clear that if we make it, that a whole host of people will fall in line. So I get you there, but I just wanted to push a little bit on the boundaries of when you do, when you are trying to streamline products, which is 1 of your 4 Ps in this case. You did talk about persona could use some work. Part of my way of wanting to push you, sir, is just say, hey, I wonder if making yourself more agile and quicker on those feedback loops from ideation to impact within the firm from outside, you know, ideas, if that ultimately could be helpful for you. So let you, you know, kind of reply to some of that.

And I

want to go over to Phantom.

I think so. So I think like, like, if you gave me like, you know, 1 more headcount, would I say no to it? No I would definitely take 1 more person. Right. The would I take like 2 more people.

Probably I would take a marketing person so I don't have to do it Right. And I would probably take 1 more engineer. But you know, every layer as the team gets bigger, like the founder, you know, I have a few philosophies. Right. For example, I believe that founders should sell for as long as humanly possible until they are causing you to lose sales.

Right. So like too often what I find happens is founders like to get rid of roles that they're uncomfortable doing. Right. Not roles that they shouldn't be doing. Right.

Like and so you know you're like I don't like doing you know fundraising So I'll hire someone to do fundraising. I don't like doing marketing, so I'll let someone else do marketing. And that the problem is that there is a lot of validated learning to be done in that time. And so what often I find is problematic is that, or I caution folks to be careful with is not to outsource things that you need to learn from. Right.

Eventually you become the you become the bottleneck in that process. And I think that that's an important time to then evaluate you know whether it's time to start to delegate that those roles or those responsibilities. But also at the same time if you can't afford to get someone better than you you actually aren't helping yourself right. Like you're going to bring someone in that you're going to have to manage and handled and it ends up eating up more of your time than you actually might think. Right.

There's another thing, you know, I think, which I even alluded, you know, Dave alluded to it actually, right? Like when I like articulated sort of like the business model, I think he meant it in the right way, but it's just that hype cycles and Like, you know, this is why salespeople can often make like terrible, you know, are terrible influence too early in a product companies that they're like, I just want to close that deal. So like, what's it take to close that deal? Right. And prioritization is really important.

These hype cycles and these little mini like false positives and these local maximums. These are all like living, breathing concepts that every day you have to look at, right? And you have to figure out like, you know, is that person represent 10 people, right? So, you know, I have a, you know, strategically how I run product. I like to make a spreadsheet at the beginning of the quarter.

And 1 of the columns, 1 of the sheets just says like ideas. And I just write down everything people say to me. Right. Like, you should do that or you should do this. You should do that.

And I have a column that has a counter in it. And I just wait and see, does the counter go up? Right. Like, like, like I don't put everything, like most people won't put things on The road map and I won't waste time putting a room. I'll just take what you say and I like great Well, let's see Like is this coming up more?

Right and then like if I've got that and I've got 5 or 10 people now I can actually go back and talk to them about it and understand that problem and see if I can find and validate that there's more and so I think sometimes and I'm guilty of doing this myself right like you can get unfocused you can you can just start wasting time right like you could try something you there's There's good experiments and there's bad experiments, right? And so you could spend 2 weeks to try something to see if it works. And sometimes that's the reason that you were actually doing it. And sometimes you're like, you just got a splinter in your brain. You're like, I just want to see if it's cool.

And you do it and you know, you chase a thing, but if you keep chasing things and you don't keep doubling down on the people who are paying you and you're not doubling down and pulling the thread of the things that they need, you're, you may invalidate or sort of risk churning all of those people. And so they have a big distinction from the others. They're paying you. Right. So I think, you know, this is always, all these factors are being balanced, I guess, at all times.

No, this, this makes a lot of sense. And I do understand looking at the frequency of these sort of demands. And I guess I would say that frequency generally would arise when it's very obvious what the change is or what the demand is. And to me, it's not clear that it's always obvious from the customer's point of view, exactly what it is they love about a product. And I'm not saying that if you ask them that they can't tell you, I'm saying that a lot of the emotions that bring them to it are just happening inherently, they're happening organically.

And so oftentimes, if people aren't, you know, pulled towards your product, and they don't tell you about it, it's hard for you to know unless you have that 1 pretty vocal person that's sharing with you a key piece of insight that you could build something off of. But completely well understood, Greg. And I want to take this moment just to share with everybody in this Think Tank. This is week number 9 of Innovators Think Tank, bringing up a project, a business, an idea to collaborate with big thinkers. And guys, it doesn't end here.

We have a Discord channel as well. So if you have any thoughts, if you're listening back, please go in there and make sure that you're chatting with us, bringing your idea to the table. It's a great place to network, to post your products and services, get exposure with more innovators. We really hope to see you in there. But I want to make a quick point, Greg, which is this idea of the rule of 3, something that you kind of brought up, which is like you want to bring on more folks.

You said that the founders should sell until they're losing sales, right? So the founders should be trying to push the marketing until it's pretty clear to the point where that's not what they should be doing. I think that's an interesting idea, an interesting concept. In my purview and what I've seen, this idea of the rule of 3 is that any company or successful business, look, these 3 people might be the same or positions might be the same people, but you need a visionary, you need a builder, and you need an integrator. Without those 3 positions in respecting the other position, what is a builder going to build without a vision?

Where is it going to go if it can't be integrated, the go-to-market guy? How does somebody with a vision build what they want without somebody who can build it? I think oftentimes in businesses, the ego plays an interesting role in clouding this landscape of this rule of 3. Because oftentimes the visionary might say, no, I've had this idea, I want to see it through and I want to do it, even though he's not the best equipped to do so. Like maybe he's not, like you said, don't bring on somebody who essentially isn't as skilled as you or more skilled than you in the area that you want them to be, because then you're just going to have to keep track of them.

Uh, that's certainly not helpful. And so how do we develop teams where we can, we can find that landscape and kind of dissolve that ego and when it's clear on who's the builder, who's the integrator, and who has the vision of what's trying to come to life, how each of those people can play that part. So in your business, in your project, in your idea, think about that a little bit. Try to split those up into what seems like, you know, different disciplines that are definitely dynamic and do interplay, but use these, you know, sort of as a tool for yourself in general. I want to go over to Phantom.

He's had his hand up for far too long. Just such a killer valioneer, such a great innovator. And thanks for hanging on the edge of your seat there. Phantom, over to you, my friend.

Oh my God, my arm is so sore, Josh. What is this? I mean, like such great value. I have just absolutely loved the conversation. Thank you, Atif and Greg.

So I have some wonderful thoughts. So I think you do think in like systems and design thinking principles, which is amazing, because I think like that's fundamentally like how all engineers think. And I think like as a creator you're saying that you're foraying into business for the first time and in your 4 piece I think what you said was you were lacking was the persona I think and from that self assessment I think I could say 1 thing right so chat GPT got self-marketed because of the way it interacted with people so I'm not sure how much of your interaction has caused noise on social media, like people coming on to zealous and getting overzealous, right? You need that sort of action, which is like, oh my God, this is so good, I need to tell people. It's not just, this is a great product, I'm gonna use it.

It's so great, I need to go tell people to use it or I need to socialize on it. So I think that you're missing some of that with potentially with the persona there and having the two-person thing, I think there's a big problem here because there's a limited awareness. So I think the definition of you edge cases and all that is going to be like very difficult with this 2 people. So I think it's valuable when you come to us and we help you define good edge cases that you can think of and think of that as a capturing of a new market share. You induce that demand by offering to solve a pain point in the market and then people will like magnetize to the solution because you're just saying if you're a landscape artist take a video and then we will make it go to tick tock and this and that and I will make all those things for you.

It's at the click of a button, $20 a month, here you go. And what he will do is he will take while he's working, this he'll take the video and he doesn't even have to like care because you're automating the rest of it for him. So that's the curation part. But I think you need to teach people how they can utilize the platform better. So I think there's a little bit of user empowerment there in terms of knowledge that is missing maybe.

So I think in that way, you can also market your tool. You can have spaces of your own and show how people can use that to get their own sort of limited talking points. And you can invite people to come talk so that you know they get the opportunity to then go to your platform and say, oh, yeah, this is on Spaces. And you can interact with this thing that I can now post on other platforms because now it's shortened and curated and easy for me to go do it. So there's a little bit of that where I think design control is a very big potential.

But you might see these optimal choices for people that they just don't understand. And I think that that's where you're missing the persona. Because I think capturing the user's beginner mindset is sort of the way intuition works and you need to connect like your creators intuitivity to the user experience maybe in a better way so that they get overzealous, I guess.

Man, I love all those thoughts. Greg, go ahead, we'll let you reply to that.

No, I love the use of overzealous. I don't disagree. I think Phantom's a lot of great points in there. You know, there's a lot of things already underway, right? You know, we are revamping the website again.

Actually, more of it will be videos now showing you how it actually works. We're about to do product detail pages, which we haven't done before because we have a lot of features in the product that don't get explanation. So we definitely want to make sure there's more clarity there. The number 1, we started a very small insider affiliate program with some of our early customers and a lot of what they, the number 1 thing they ask for is videos, right? It's funny, the video is not the hard part to make, it's that the product changes so fast that you constantly have to remake all the videos, right?

So that has actually been 1 of the challenges, it goes the UI continues to evolve and you know, in these early parts, you know, it just adds this extra burden of work. Right. But yeah, it's this thing you got to do. Right. Look, I think, you know, to the point of, you know, being a 2 person thing versus not.

I don't think size matters. Right. I think like your ability to prioritize is far more important than the size of your team. You know, Atif you'd mentioned like why startups fail. I think the top 3 reasons are actually product market fit, cash and then problems between the founders.

You know Josh you'd mentioned another thing about the rule of threes in the startup world. Yeah.

You

know we use the rule of twos. The best team is a hacker and a hustler. Right. And, you know, I'm the hustler. I was CTO.

I was an engineer for 25 years, actually, from, you know, going into this. But I'm very good at sales. And I was out with our team's closing deals. My last role in my last company was actually the head of solutions, right? Like I was CTO also, but so yeah, I don't feel like we're lacking in our ability.

I think I'm not perfect at prioritizing, You know, like I see the false signals too sometimes. Sometimes my own intuition get there. And I will say like, actually the trap we've probably fallen in the most is, you know, prior to your points, a lot of times I've had the right, we've had the right insight, but it's the time it took us to deploy it. And this would feed into a hype cycle problem, right? Hype cycles aren't bad, you just have to learn how to ride them, right?

And so, if you can take advantage of it, it's great. But if it takes you, if you will pass like that little meta that makes it powerful or an opportunity, you don't get to stack the wins from that. And so I think we failed to do that in a number of times. Sometimes that is because we've scoped it too big. Sometimes we didn't communicate the scope well enough.

And sometimes we just got busy supporting the other use cases that are still live. If you've ever built a software startup, the worst thing you can ever happen to use is your first user because the second you have that user you can't just delete everything, can't drop the database, can't do a whole bunch of things that you would normally do, you know, that are easier when there are no users on the platform. Right. We have like 4 terabytes of data in the database. Now, like we can't even run queries anymore the way we used to run them.

Right. We can't change the database the same way we used to do it. So these are like different realities that set in that make you less nimble. And despite the fact that there's 2 of us, we have a code base that's been around for 18 months now. And we have thousands of freemium users already on the platform and a pretty significant body of work in there.

So I think it's all great points actually, but I hope I would have been able to share is more just the challenges that come with it, right? You know, I've been on both sides of the fence, on the innovation side, I've been on the startup side. I know from trying to advise my own clients in the past on the innovation side, you see why things fail there, and they're not that dissimilar for why things fail in startups.

1 of the things that I will say that surprises me is the fact that both of the people that you mentioned for the organization work in the gray zone in the free market, right? There is an ethical side and a non-ethical side to this as well.

No, very interesting point, for sure. And

because what you're saying is that you're taking our data and you're tagging us. But I didn't bring up this point up till now, but I want to discuss this because I do see the privacy concern here about who gets to upload and how many people can discretize any Twitter space on your AI versus only the people who were in the space get to discretize it because they are the ones who logged in with their credentials, things like that. So can you just like give a bit more?

I mean, look, you're

speaking in a public place that's recorded, right? So if you have serious privacy concerns, you shouldn't be here. Right. And that's not me about Zealous. That's just if that's what you're worried about, like you're committing your data to this space, right?

I think with Zealous, we've been intentional. We've had like lots of opportunities to do things that people wanted, and we were like, no, we're not gonna let, we don't want it if you weren't the host, right? There's things like that that we've intentionally kept in, right? You know, we've had people, you know, we've only had 1 user ever asked to have their data deleted, right? And it wasn't, it wasn't because she wasn't aware she could hide all this stuff.

But the reason was she didn't like all our spaces being in 1 place. And I was like, okay, fine, I'll take it down. But the reality is you've put all your spaces out there, right? All your data is out there. I'm like, I'm not monetizing you, right?

The request and the data we have is because people are asking, right, for that stuff to come in. And you've ostensibly given permission to that person to record you as you enter the room.

I still appreciate your hustle. No, no doubt. And please do not take this in any form of disrespect.

So my whole point is that

like where what you do this like there is a regulatory part where the government is unaware of all these things happening. So British Spaces is an evolving thing And I agree that we get to talk and people get to record it without our permission. But I also see why this could be like a potential problem moving forward, because there's a lot of biometric markers in voices. And there's a whole lot of things that I know AI is used for when it comes to transcribing. So I know the potential risks of a platform that you say.

So that's why I was sort of asking for more probably decentralized apps and you know what I even envisioned for you maybe you have not thought of it, because I see that the cloud is a centralization aspect, but I want people to have like a decentralized app that can interface and give only the right amount of data to your own cloud. And you can charge for access to that cloud. But then they have that, you know, you can, that's how I envision the app, the cloud privacy and all those things. So I just wanted to rethink some of those things. That's all.

No, this is really great.

Yeah, I did.

I did. I did. Great. Just do a quick recap. We have a number of new speakers or excuse me, coming in.

Josh, I do have to go in probably like 10 minutes.

No problem, sir. We'll get you nice and wrapped up before then. I just want to say to anybody tuning into the tank and I see some of our originals. Oh, Natalie, down there in the crowd. So good to see you this week.

I know in Australia, it's still pretty early in the morning. I really appreciate you tuning in. For anybody joining into the space, this is the Innovators Think Tank. This is where we bring anybody with the project business and idea on up to the front to talk and collaborate with big thinkers, folks, different perspective, education, expertise. And this collaboration happens right here every Saturday at 2 p.m.

Hey, I just wanted to say, you know, a couple notes, just real fast, Greg, which is on the real cash thing, You mentioned like the top 3 things that will drive a startup to success. And I want to tell you, and I can't wait for us to talk more about this. For me, in my opinion, it's never cash. It's never cash. And if you think it's cash, you should go in and look deeper as to what the issue really was because it's generally never cash.

It's a function of a number of things. But look, I don't want to get into that right now. I also want to have folks kind of recommend before we lose you here in the next 10 minutes, we have some really great speakers, Keegan, Nick, Hugo, Diem requesting to be a speaker, Leo. I want to give all these folks an opportunity to come up and speak and ask you a question so that they have 1 here in the last 10 minutes, if that's cool with you. And then I wanna recommend a couple things myself and we'll get going.

So Keegan, go ahead, sir, if you have any questions for him or any questions for anybody? Before

before before I before before I take the floor, I must understand what the issues that have been discussed are about.

I love

it would be and could in an embarrassment to myself if I jumped in and made a conclusion on a subject I know not.

This is great. So if you look inside our tweets, I'll try to do this very quick inside the comments. I can give you a quick recap if it's helpful, but if you have more to say, we'll let you have the floor, sir.

Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. But let everyone else go ahead. I'll give her a statement.

Sounds great. No problem. So, Odiyoham, I know that we had you up on the panel. If you had a thought, sir,

we want to go over to you

and then also Aliyah, I'd love to hear from you guys. So, Aliyah, we'll go ahead and

start with you first.

Yes. How are you?

Hello.

Hello, sir. How are you?

Did you have a question here for Greg.

Well guys I think maybe an issue with the Leo's mic. No problem. Oh, Deehan, did you have something to share? Anything, sir? We'd love to hear any questions you have.

No problem, let's keep rocking then. So Keegan, just for some background, Greg is working on an amazing platform here. And although there's competitors, there's design trade-offs all across the board in any product. And what he's nailing is the way on how to get these design tradeoffs to optimize his growth, optimize the value for folks. And we have his link in the chat, Keegan.

So you can go look at this. This is a tool for folks who, like us, are in audio spaces on Twitter, in these communities, sharing key pieces of value. How do we extrapolate that and share it with our followers? Onalia, this may be interesting to you too. When we-

I want to say this. Please. I, first of all, I'm sort of like a victim. OK? Why do I say I'm a victim?

Because the largest distributor of drones in the world, just like the Apples and the whatnot, signed with me the first NDA. But then regulations were not there.

So, Kegan, is this relevant to Greg? Is this something on topic for Greg?

Innovators, innovators.

Okay, so Greg only has about 10 minutes here. I'd love to bring you up and talk a little bit about what you're doing afterwards, but I wanna give some final thoughts since we only have probably now about 5 minutes with Greg. So anybody joining the tank who had the privilege, you know, or listening back, and I've had the privilege to listen over the last 2 and a half hours to Greg speak about the business. We'd love for you to come in the Discord and share your thoughts and also in real time if you're with us right now, I'd love to bring you up on stage and ask Greg any questions. Notice we got a couple of speakers asking to request.

I'll go ahead and lead off the question portion. So Greg, do you have any plans to help folks repurpose the content or generate content specifically for each platform? Because from Twitter to TikTok, there's a different aesthetic or a different need.

And

so when I'm generating online, let's say I put this Twitter spaces in there, and I wanna generate something for Twitter, but something for TikTok and another thing for LinkedIn. Have you looked into the variation of putting things on different platforms, the aesthetic there, and then how maybe you could synergize with creators from that 0 to 1 mark and get a better footprint further.

Without a doubt. I think we've been star... So we obviously support outputting in the size that's relevant, like that's needed for that space for starters. Right. So if you want, you know, horizontal, vertical, square, whatever it's going to be, by the way, square for Twitter, just so everyone remember.

Um, I think you're absolutely right. Like audiograms are great. Like they're, they're useful. I think they play better in maybe like an Instagram, probably like a LinkedIn or something like that. Part of why we've been moving towards the like native recording and video, though, is that I actually want to be the top of the funnel for you.

Right. So the reason we're doing the follow-ups product is to capture that content directly from you because it gives us way more viability. I think a lot of folks, like if I were to give like most people who are like these creator curious types that are professionals, like and they're trying to figure out where they want to go, The thing that scares them the most is like, how do I do TikTok? Right. And guess what?

Most TikToks need a picture of you, right? Like they need a video of you in the background or as a primary content.

Let me interject. Please, please. And please, apologies. Let me interject. I asked my girlfriend the other day, how come when she puts a photo on Instagram or on TikTok, she gets over 14, 000 views, But when she does the same on the same Twitter, she gets hundreds.

You know, so that's a question.

Yeah, great. I mean, I dig to the to the point, right? There's an interesting stat I found, something like 52% of people repurpose the same content across. Especially on the corporate side, it's like social media managers basically use the exact same content that they make in 1 place and all the places. And obviously, to your point Josh, the aesthetics, the vibe, the tonality, etc.

And then those are the platforms, And then there's your audience on that platform, which may still be different yet. Right. Like your Twitter spaces, listeners may not put up with, you know, like a casual tone. They want more informative stuff on LinkedIn, right? Etc.

So I think like absolutely the goal would be to continue to give you more optionality for how you're going to be in all the different places you want to be. You know, adding GPT and things like that into the ecosystem, like finally gave us the ability to provide you with text like blog posts and newsletter summaries and stuff like that. But, you know, I don't imagine or I imagine it's easy to imagine we get to, can you help me generate images with like,

you

know, stable diffusion or, and things like that, or, um, can we generate new audio of you? Uh, you know, and I think to Phantom's point, there are questions we haven't considered.

This is, this is a, This is a global discussion. Let us also respect that I am also joined here by Mr. Ogola, HSC, head of state, commendation. Please, we will also give him a chance to speak.

Yeah, I would love to give him a chance to speak. Absolutely. So we'll make sure we pivot to that. I know Greg has limited time. You're mentioning a key point that Phantom made, Greg, that resonated there.

I'll let you keep going.

Yeah, I was just gonna say, like, you know, for example, like I have voice clips of tons, like a hundred thousand people, but I won't allow anyone to clone a voice on our platform. Right? Like, you know, We've done the experiments, we've shown the tests, we've shown it to people. There are choices to be made here about how to do things and when to do things and why to do things. And I think these are still considerations that are changing.

I think Phantom mentioned earlier in the beginning about accents and things like that. We are an integrator in a lot of ways of underlying AI technologies. And so we are building the system to be swappable. Whisper is much better at picking up our primary back end for transcription is really good at English and Spanish, but it doesn't do code switching. So if you have a conversation where someone's speaking Spanish and English, it will screw up.

Whisper, for example, the OpenAI transcription service or text-to-speech, or speech-to-text, is really good at picking up any foreign language, but it'll code the whole conversation in that language. So I think what we view as 1 of our strengths and competitive advantages over time is we're not trying to build innate AI nearly as much as you're trying to leverage the best AI possible for our customers. And that may mean that this platform or back-end is better for you for this use case, but for the next person it may be a different 1 and we're trying to normalize all that behavior into 1 place, 1 pipeline, and 1 set of outposts.

When Biden was senator, he said something very simple about all this use of AI and technology. He said, What happens when the Chinese decide that all the, you know, electronically and, you know, vehicles have to go to the left? We will have... Kaigen, let

me stop you there just for a quick moment just to keep the great etiquette of the take. We had Temp go ahead and raise his hand and I'd love to hear your question, Temp, if you got something. Keegan, we'll be rocking with you and that other speaker you mentioned you'd love to hear in a moment. Temp, it's all you, my friend. What you got to say?

Hey, just want to say thanks for the great content. And Zelis, I'd love to hear about the very beginning, first customers, and then your path to paying customer. How long were you guys developing and how did that come about?

OK, first customer, huh? I don't even know. We've been. We original product that we made actually back in January was like a Zoom type product that had like note taking, transcription and the video streaming, live stream built into it. And it was probably some of our batch mates and tech stars at the time.

We ended up posting about 80, 000 minutes of meetings on that platform, transcribed them all, etc. And that's when we quickly learned that the corporate side, you know, folks don't want everything recorded and we didn't actually have a way to pause recording. It can only be live, right? So that was where it started. I think Our first customer was probably like a Web3 project.

It may have been Meta Angels or The Hug. And again, they were embracing Twitter spaces. It's a big part of their marketing community strategy. And so they started using us because they were archiving their spaces or linking to their spaces from their website, but Twitter was deleting them. And so there wasn't actually a way for them to to actually go over.

My last 2, I don't know, you know, it's now it's a SaaS. So stuff just happens. I don't even know who they are necessarily all the time. But I know a couple that I've talked to, you know, 1 was a, like a Twitter spaces kind of network. They do a number of different, a number of different shows per week.

I think they do about 120 hours a month of content. So it's a mixture of like a daily space or multiple daily spaces plus a few podcasts sort of in there. And I think I'm trying to think of who else I may have talked to that's been using us. Yeah. And I think maybe like probably just like someone who is like it's probably definitely a podcaster because I know they were linking their RSS feed.

So it's probably like But we tend to draw in like Twitter spaces hosts like Web3 projects. And maybe I think it's sometimes some podcasters and we're trying to improve the process for podcasters next.

Nice, Tim. I hope that answered some of your questions. I also just saw we had somebody from Web3, our, what is it, Alarion, join in this space. I don't know if you had maybe a question more around Web3 for our speaker, Greg, just for a little bit of background. He's, you know, helping to streamline, taking content from things like Twitter spaces, this audio and generate raps and media for other platforms for folks to get that.

It seems like a great space for Web3. And although you're just in here, I know you didn't have a chance to hear about it all. If anybody has any additional questions for Greg, I bet we're pushing him, we're pulling his legs on the last couple of minutes.

4 more minutes, yeah. You got it,

you got it.

If we have any other speakers, any other folks you know who are on the tank and wanna ask something, You know, and anybody in real time, excuse me, anybody watching the recording, if you are on Discord, go ahead and go to ITT number 9, hit your question. We'll make sure we get it over to Greg. We'll also be active in there hearing from you as well. That's in the nest. You guys can go and check out that Discord community.

It's a great place to connect, to market, to incubate your ideas, and really hit the next level with some big innovators. So we hope to see you in there. Odiham, you got a question for us. I'd love to hear from you, sir. What do you got?

Yeah, this is a very insightful conversation. I'm in Nairobi, and I just wanted to probably ask Greg and you, Josh, because we see a lot of startups where we don't get to hear their stories. We only hear them from the venture capital, from the funding, but we never get to hear their stories. We never get to hear how they actually go to startup. And for me, that's something which I really wanted to change.

So I had an idea, which I came up with an idea called digital humanitarian. It's an idea which I've incubated, demoed and actually did a live demo with people and actually it's scalable and it's sustainable and it's able to...

Great work by the way, great work. Great work.

Oh okay, this is awesome. So Adihan, before we bring you up to talk about your project, I can't wait to hear more about this here in just a few minutes. Sounds like some very cool stuff, and Keegan, clearly a huge fan. So glad you guys are on here. Greg, I know we've had you, I know you got a couple more minutes, and anybody, they've really had a nice window here, if they're live with us, to go ahead and ask you something.

We have Dave, Atif, Phantom, Hugo, a bunch of other speakers. If you guys have any final notes, we'll go ahead and give them to Greg. But other than that, for me guys, this was a really cool, when I found this this morning and realized that this mastermind had been wrapped up into a 60 second video, I just realized how powerful that could be for even spaces like this, where we're going through 2 and a half, 3, 4 hours of content and trying to create some meaningful value that can be watched in 60 seconds from somebody who doesn't have all this time is so important. I also know I've seen O'Neilly and Dave in particular in spaces adding so much value to the conversation. And when I thought about their ability to kind of capture that and share it with their followers who weren't there, I thought it was just great.

So to hear Dave, I'd already put even an hour into creating something like this before, maybe even has some experience with the platform, was really cool to hear. And I hope a lot of you guys got value from this, of us talking about this company, this SaaS company that clearly has a product, it's doing some really, really great stuff. And I hope that you guys were able to kind of learn in real time, draw parallels from his work and the way he's approaching it to how you approach your work and how you can really get to that next level as well. And then also Greg, I hope that you were able to get some cool insight from the community here. I feel like we shared a lot of interesting points in different ways this could go.

And obviously, you're looking at it from frequency, but hopefully, maybe you put out some of these key points to your community and let them vote which 1 they want to see. Or maybe there's a way we can use the ideas from this think tank to drive more progress for you. So I want to give Greg the floor. Actually, before I do that, I want Phantom to go ahead and share his notes. And then Greg, over to you for a nice ending.

And tell us any of your thoughts, whatever you want from you. But let's go to Phantom real quick, and then Greg for your closer.

Yeah, thank you Josh. And finally Greg, so wonderful platform and this is like basically my ask for like any sort of platform that decides to use AI in the future, right? So the thing is like we try to categorize human and we try to do a lot of these kind of internal categorizations so you have to be kind of a little bit careful there in what you categorize and how you decide the autonomy to interact. So there are some problems there that will always pop up. And the other thing I will say is your ideal customer is someone who you never know, right?

So you have no knowledge about your ideal customer so you need to start prioritizing a little bit about the community and start figuring out how can I create the intersection between my development cycle and the community needs better, right? And that sort of amplifies and creates your own hype cycle. You have to manufacture, induce the demand for your hype cycle, have your community like multiply and magnify your development updates. And that sort of generates, you know, the organic marketing that I think will be very helpful for you. So yeah, I wish you all the best, Dallas and Greg.

Beautiful stuff. Greg, over to you for nice ending. Phantom, excellent ending points there. What an excellent way to kind of add a nice value near ending to some of that. Always can expect that from Phantom, key value near there.

Greg, I'll let you go ahead and give your final notes. Obviously, there's been a lot going on in this tank. I hope you listen to it back. I hope you join us on Discord and things like that. But what are your notes for just everybody and any closing thoughts and so on?

Thanks for being here.

Yeah, I mean, I like the format. It's great. Some smart folks, definitely, and some great questions.

No, no, no, no. There are people who have not been allowed.

Keegan, we're gonna keep going. This is just a closing note from Greg. Yeah, he's just giving us closing notes. And then Keegan, we're gonna stay on here. You're gonna be able to be, you know, up front at the tank talking with us.

So Keegan, don't think we're ending the space now. We're not. We're just getting closing notes from Greg before he leaves. All you, Greg.

Oh, just the beginning, not the end. Okay, I agree.

So I'll just say, though, well, thank you for your... I do appreciate all the feedback. I'll follow up with some of you just to catch up later. By all means, give Zealous a try. If you want to see the marketing side, though, zealous.app is our actual public website.

You can learn more about the product over there. We do host a town hall on Fridays, usually. So we share whatever is updated that week. There's a newsletter as well. You can sign up from the website.

Give it a try. Like I said, there is a free trial. Our roadmap is also public and we post our change log and other things there. So head over to roadmap.zealous.app if you want that. And if you need any, if you want a question, you want me to walk you through the product at all, feel free to DM the Zealous account or DM me directly at gregarious.

And I'm happy to connect and give you a tour and answer any questions that you may have. But thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it. I appreciate all your time. And I will see you all soon.

Greg, thanks so much for coming. Truly, you're working on a great product, sir, and thanks again. You know, I know we held you for a little bit longer, so no hard feelings if you leave the space here, but thank you so much for being in here. I will have a lot of the details in the Discord as well. So you can review some of that Greg in the future and make sure it's right, answer some questions that folks have.

I joined the Discord, so I'll see you all over there too. Beautiful. All right. Bye everyone.

See you there. Take care, Greg. Yep. All right, guys, let's make a nice pivot. Look, this was a really cool opportunity to talk.

And Dave, I know at the beginning when we were posting kind of the framework for this discussion, it seemed like it was gonna be kind of like a demo type thing and then also giving feedback. But really what I felt like it turned into was just fully feedback. You know, we were going over a lot of the things that we're thinking and how it can be used. And, you know, he kind of talked about the product and his persona and some of these holdups. I felt like there was a lot of, you know, good thing pushed forward.

So making this transition guys, you know, thanks for everybody for being here innovators think tank week number 9 If you guys believe it we've been going now for 9 weeks That's incredible to me and just to see folks that have been coming week after week into this tank It's it's really special You guys are the apex of collaborators. And I really, really appreciate you taking Saturday afternoon to come and be here. I know for some of you, it might be early in the morning. Some of you might be late. Look, we just started a Twitter community that you can join.

You'll get all the notifications of the new think tanks coming up. It's a great place to post if you want to be a speaker or a presenter, that's up inside the nest guys. So go over there, join our community here on Twitter. And if you want to get even deeper into the conversation, come join us on Discord. All of our big thinkers, all of our presenters, all the speakers make their way in there.

And we try to help people incubate their ideas. We give them a place to network with other innovators. We all know you can get to that place on a project where you need more expertise, you need somebody with that bigger strength. So head over to that networking tab and you'll see a bunch of folks in there who are ready to be helpful for you. So I really encourage everybody to go check out these resources.

The point of this is to create a community where anybody working on an idea, project or business can come in and be taken to the next level. You know, If they're taking us seriously, we will take them seriously. You guys just saw that with Greg right here. So pivoting, we have Keegan here at the top of the panel. We also have Odihan.

Sounds like some really great work from some innovators. We would love to hear from them. Then We have some awesome speakers and listeners who I'm sure would like to ask some questions and learn more and push things even further. So, Odihaim, without further ado, I know you're working on a project. If you want to...

Yeah, and Keegan, we'll let you guys have the stage and chat a little bit.

No, no, it's totally okay.

And Keegan, was Odihaim the person that you said that you would love to come up and share some of his work right?

Yeah but I want to say something. Kenya is the capital

of Kenya is the

capital of Africa when it comes to innovation. That is without a doubt. And we have even a capital center called Uhuru Park, where we have incubation centers. Okay, now again, we are the only country that I'm aware of that has plans to actually put up. Okay, sorry I'm in a bundu place on top of a tree So you will not hear me well, but clear, listening to me.

You see, this music is different. We are going to play the music of our forefathers, and their music was to see father. So please, I want to tell you, look at what we have done and what we will implement. Okay, going forward.

We sure will. We absolutely will. We will. And, you know, week after week, if you want to join us and share some of the Some of those notes and what's happening over there and all that we would love to hear from you It sounds like you know, Odihan is working on a project a business as well Keegan did you want to give him the floor to kind of chat about that or did you have some more notes for us?

No, no, no, no. I think he has more even to share about it.

All right, let's rock and roll. Odihaim, The floor is yours. We want to hear more about you and learn what you're doing, sir.

Absolutely. And thanks, Gigan. For me, I struggle a lot when I hear about startups. And this space has actually proved to me that we don't tell our stories as startups. Where our focus is more on the solution, on the innovation, but we never get to hear human touch points.

We never get to hear before the startup, who are they? When you look at someone like Bill Gates or like before they came up with the innovations, you could hear their stories of how they started from the basement, you know, from a garage somewhere. But nowadays, you just see startups, you all of a sudden hear they've been funded, they seed capital, you don't get to hear the faces. And now with the advent of AI, now we are losing human touch points. And for me, that's something which I really struggled a lot because I really wanted to incubate something from a Kenyan tech space.

And I came up with something called digital humanitarian, where we champion the use of social media, I mean, innovative storytelling during crisis and humanitarian management. And this has worked well for the government, for the UN. We've been part of the COVID pandemic communications, we've set up UN...

You are a hero, just say you are a hero.

I'm modest, so the thing is I've incubated the solution with no website, with no app. This is now when I want to launch it, this is now when I want to launch it. This is now when I want to now tell people, hey, we've deployed the solution, it's been accumulated in government, it's scalable, it's sustainable, and it's something which can be adopted across the world where anybody can become a digital humanitarian. And you see, that's the future of the digital space where we all support each other, where we all incubate our ideas together and support each other, where the digital space becomes like a hub for us to learn and unlearn from each other. So that's my question where I wanted to really ask, why don't we get to hear the stories of startups before they get launched?

Why don't we get to hear incubation stories, the demo stories? Like for me, I have demoed with real humans. I have seen death. We've saved lives, you know, we've changed conversations. And that's something which I really want now to see how do I take this to the next level.

But you don't do that to get donor support, right? You do it because it is out of your heart. Please let there also be a difference.

I love that. And hearing those stories, Odihaim, is so important. And the Innovators Think Tank, for me, is a place where I can innovate and grow and become better too. And I think part of helping everybody understand the story of idea to impact, you need some content before the startup was there. And so I really want to make it a point as we have more speakers over time to learn more.

I try to ask them what sort of insights led them to that mission and that vision and understand more about their passion for what they're doing. But there's even a deeper story there that I think can be told relatively quickly that can give a lot of insight to the listeners, the panel, to help guide them in an even better direction more aligned with why they started it. So I love what you're saying. And just for anybody in here, I take constant feedback as to how this thing is better.

Please give him another 30 seconds. Please give him another 30 seconds to give his point home. Please.

I would be more than happy to. Odiha, Keegan wants you to have another 30 minutes. It's all you. You can have more than that. Go ahead.

Oh, sorry. I'm just laughing.

I'm laughing because I suck at communications. I thrive better in working in my own dark space. But I really wanted to really ask you, Josh, most innovators fall in the neurodiverse spectrum, but we don't get to hear those stories, especially in Kenya and in Africa. And 1 of the things which I really wanted to raise is to raise awareness on dyslexia and on how dyslexic thinking can actually incubate and come up with innovative solutions for the world. But is the world ready for dyslexic thinking?

And I am someone with no college education, no university education, and look at the kind of solutions I have supported, the Kenya Red Cross in emergency response. I think I've been part and parcel of emergency response in my country for the last decade. And for the first time, I want to come out and tell guys, look, dyslexic thinking is the future of work. And Are we ready for a dyslexic mind? So for me, I'm looking as innovators.

Are we ready to tell our stories from a human perspective, not just focus on the tech aspects of innovation? That's the essence of just giving people a people-centered kind of solution where anybody can actually, without any college education, without any feeling like I come from a village in Kenya, but we are all skilled differently. And that's the essence of digital humanitarian where each 1 of us can just have a human, empathetic, compassionate heart to actually help and do good and use the digital space to actually change the world. That's the essence which I'm looking at.

Man, I synergize with you so much in so many ways, sir. The part of building this think tank and doing it now, look, this is over 30 hours that I've been in this tank trying to work and bring forward businesses that to help them collaborate with other folks and try to get people's guard down and bring strength to the table. You know, Odihai, what you're pointing out is that collaboration is the new currency. That somebody with even a different way of thinking of you, you know, with this sense of, like you're pointing out, dyslexia, even can bring the most beautiful points of innovation to your project insofar as that you meet with them and you work with them and you connect with them. And that's what this space is for.

It's also what that discord is for, is for people like you to come in and share your perspective and share, share that deeply with folks, both on a voice chat and in text chat. So you know, I love people like you and your perspective. And what you're pointing out is something very close to my heart as well. Odiheim, we had a couple people raise their hand and Phantom in no way am I not calling on you. Atif sent me a message.

He said he has to go. He just had a closing note for us. So I hope you understand, you know, you're our value in the year. Phantom is a key part of this discord and running everything is just a big player for us. So important.

So Phantom, no disrespect. We just want to go to Atif real quick, hear from him. He does have to go. And then we'll go over to you, my brother.

Thank you, Josh. And thanks for your patience, Phantom. Josh, once again, another very informative, intuitive, and exceptionally useful space, I must say. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. And thank you and everybody else, particularly the speakers who actually enriched the understanding on so many fronts of a particular startup and the innovation side of things.

So thank you so much. And I have to leave now. So I shall certainly start to join the next Think Tank and I look forward to it. But take care and goodbye.

Atif, we always appreciate your insight on the panel. Your understanding of business physics and how businesses can break when they don't understand those and moderate those has been such a point of learning for me in listening to you. And I think a lot of people learn from you who just listen to this back, who in real time. So I'm in debt to you, sir, and appreciate all the knowledge you drop on us. And I hope I see you next Saturday.

I do hope I see you in the Discord as well. I know for folks, if it's not your native server, look, it's not mine, but if we can hop on there and have a place to extend this community with good tools, why not use it? That's my attitude. So, Atif, thanks so much for being here today. And sir, we understand you're leaving the panel.

Have a great night and we'll see you next week. Phantom, over to you.

Yeah, thank you, Josh. And yeah, thank you, Ateef. I know that, you know, it's more about just getting my point across at the end of the day, so I don't mind waiting. It's just that, you know, at 1 point you have to just get to me. So I write my, like, points down, So that's kind of the way I work.

But I think Odhiambo is like doing like a like, amazing work. Like I just looked at his profile. And like the digital humanitarian is like, 1 of the most like, community sort of driven idea I have seen in a while. So like, I'm just loving the whole vision. And, you know, I think Gagan was right.

Like Kenya seems to have like some innovative mindset for sure, right? But I think like, that's the way we work. I think innovation exists in all countries, in all cultures. It's about trying to learn what is truly innovative in your own culture. I think that what I truly want to do is to have these global conversations.

I want us to say, hey, innovation means something else in my culture. And this is the way we innovate in my culture. And how can I use technology to better customize the way my culture approaches innovation, right? Because when you like customize the technology to the cultural like trends and cultural things, sometimes yes, there is like the whole status quo thing, but it is just adoption becomes easier, accessibility becomes easier. So the idea that, you know, digital humanitarianism, it's just about being getting humans on to technology right so I definitely think that like governments need to have it but I also will say that you know we need to have more decentralized community level stuff for some more private interactions as well, because having totally public spaces is great and having totally government spaces is great and these kind of Twitter spaces are great.

But We need to think about more of like, apart from even Discord, I want to be like a platform independent decentralized community that is innovating because some of these innovative ideas, I think can end up in dangerous hands, but I want to build in public. I want to tell people that there is a right way and wrong way to innovate. And please focus on building for creation and not for destruction.

I mean, what a beautiful, beautiful concept for for you have.

That's what you see. My yeah, you get if

you have some notes for us, my brother, please tell us. Please tell us if you have any notes from what Phantom and Odiheim is saying. You're clearly a fan of his work and somebody who sees him as somebody who has saved the day locally and in a big way. This is really impactful to me to hear in this space. I'd love to hear more from you.

And Odiheim, I just wanna say, man, the digital humanitarian idea, I haven't heard those 2 words together until you just said them and it's kind of it's kind of breaking my brain because it is such a phenomenal concept that that needs to be well understood and well acted out that I don't know how we can't have you constantly, you know in here kind of talking about that more often. So Odihaime and Keegan, if you guys want to share

more of

your perspective,

please do.

Please take the floor, please. Odihame. Yeah, yeah.

First of all, what's the name? Is it Phantom Observer? Thanks for the compliment and the kind words. And Josh, yeah, I can be a speaker here more than often. And for me, I'm also looking at partnerships and I agree with you, collaboration is the future of work.

As in nowadays, content co-creation is the future. You can't work in silos. You have to complement people. And digital humanitarian is a human-centric, collaborative way of doing things, where you look at the big picture, you like, when you look at the big picture, let's say for government, you identify gaps in government and provide solutions where it's people-driven kind of crowdsourcing where we all share our stories. Let's say for example like mental health or even blood appeal.

If we don't get stories of people talking, you can come up with so many solutions, but if it doesn't have human touch points where people share their stories and say, hey, I need blood, or I need this kind of solution. It's gonna be null and void. So you find even the UN, even the NGOs, they work in silos. But if you bring them together in 1 table and tell them, hey, look, now we have the digital and we have the humanitarian. How about we combine the 2?

Where now I can share my story and say, hey, I have dyslexia, I have no education, but look at what I've come up with. So my story has inspired so many youths in Kenya who have been labelled stupid, who have been labelled psychos. And you find that bulk of the time in Africa, we suffer from low self-esteem because we don't get exposure and such spaces are actually going to give innovators like me from Kenya and East Africa an opportunity to actually Believe in themselves that they can actually come up with something which can be adopted globally and I've been to America I've been to Geneva I've spoken in I think 19 countries and and I have spoken where I'm the only Black man and at times people ask me. Are you sure you have no education? I'm like, yeah, I have none.

I'm just smart, you know, and at times, I grappled with fear. I grappled with low self-esteem for a very long time until I spoke in so many forums and I was told, hey, speak more, you know, and Josh, if you need a speaker, if you need someone to chime in, I'm here because I'm also looking at collaboration from global level. I'm also looking at hosting spaces with diverse communities.

Don't forget me when you reach those stages because I know God has good plans for you.

Keegan, you went to bat for Odihaim and got him up on stage in this, in the chaotic, you know, white knuckling of our innovators think tank and we're making it happen. You advocated for him. What a good friend, you know, what a good person that sees his vision. And I hope Odiheim keeps you nice and close. Cause it's so important to have people that will go back, uh, go to bat for you like that.

And Odiheim, I just want to share in my view, I believe innovation is literally part of everybody. I think it's a default state that people really do have. It's a superpower. I wrote more about it in this thing I have called Value Near. It's a sub stack thing, but I encourage folks to go to my bio and check that out.

I really think that you can prove all the way down to the single cell level, all the way to us being in this conversation right now, that the most uniform thing is innovation. The most uniform ability of all things since the beginning of time has been innovation. That we have a duty to be creators together and Odiheim to work with the greater world to do that. I think we're actually not getting the bulk of value that we deserve when we don't work with folks in all parts of the world, with all perspectives and all levels of education. Their experience and their humanness is what brings about a superpower.

Obviously knowledge and things like this, when you go study places, can add a layer of value to you, but it is in no way what is the intrinsic, hugest part of who you are. I believe that down to like, you know, just a key level. We have some awesome speakers that are up in here right now. Power, Heart, you know, Temp and Phantom with his hand up. I wanna go over to some of these new folks that we have up.

Heart, If you had any notes, any questions for Odi Heimer, wanted to chime in on this discussion, obviously you can get the sense of it and get the tone of it. I'd love to hear from you. So Hart, over to you.

Well, yes, I've been listening in for quite a while today. Like this is my first time running across this think tank space and it reminds me a lot about a space that I, you know, we call it the Genius Room and it's a Monday through Friday and you know it's a whole bunch of people just like you brought into here where we come together and we talk about innovative ways technology is changing the future and you know it's a lot of smart people in there and I met some great amazing people and digital humanitarian was the phrase that piqued my interest because, you know, I'm in the process, you know, I'm getting things together so I can file for 501c non-profit. And I love telling my story when people ask me about why I am doing what I'm doing. You know, I wanna offer the peer to peer support and mentorship without those stigmas of paid professionals and anonymous programs, because I myself have had negative backlash from both aspects of them. And, you know, I think it's something that other people can relate with.

And I know other people can relate with because I talk with a lot of people in my network, because collaboration is the way to go. Competition is going to destroy everything. But remember, I can't do this myself, but together we can accomplish anything.

Collaboration is the new currency. I'll say it till we all get it tatted right on our chest. But Matia has to get it tatted on his forehead. Same with Cash Money Kev. All right, over to Power.

Power, what you got for us?

How's it going? How's it going, man? I wasn't actually gonna, I was just having a spy on spaces. I'm not really supposed to be on Twitter as I'm having my time away from social media. But I saw the space and I heard some of you guys talking and I was inspired and relieved.

So then kind of realized, yes, finally, you know, the creed is out there. And

kind of

on the topic, if there's anything I want to contribute to the, let's say, the the concept, the innovation of the tone of the collective consciousness, I believe is the next frontier. Because with all the technological advancements that we've had with social media and so on, I don't know if you guys noticed, but it almost seems like mankind is regressing somewhat, but more on the social sphere, or its ability to understand and engage, or, you know, proper social practices that allows us to be more willing to go out there and collaborate and explore new things and share perspectives rather than this constant competitive, get 1 up and start on Instagram type culture. And I guess as innovators and thought leaders, I feel that's probably going to be the biggest need in the humanitarian space. And in doing so, the inspiration and the innovation that can come from the generations that benefit off that initiative is gonna literally change the game within the generation. And I know this from personal, professional and anecdotal experience and if anything I'm powering up.

I think it was Philip who was talking. Dude I'm in the same kind of boat. I shouldn't even really be here because I told myself I'm not going to be on Twitter but you know I have to say something. And Josh shout out to you for, thank God, lads, please. If we don't do anything now, it's gonna be a mess.

It's gonna be a mess out here. I had to step out for a bit just to power up my power bank before I come on smoke, you feel me?

So- Yeah, absolutely. Well, I just wanna touch on 1 thing before we go.

Let's respect everyone from every continent. Yes. Okay?

Yes, absolutely. Empower, I love what you're saying here with this idea that, look, the next wave of innovation as a collective is learning how to become creators and weave together all of the beautiful value that each part of the world and each thinker has to offer into those creations. The age of being a consumer I think is dying to a tail end. Yeah it's coming to a tail end and you're finding a lot of folks even being empowered by tools such as AI, movements such as this 1, ideas such as the digital humanitarian that Odiheim is bringing up that ultimately I love that concept by the way,

fucking fire.

Yeah, fire, I couldn't agree more. Yeah, absolutely. And I think what it does is it helps to push the needle further and further towards the creator culture that I would like to see. And so, you know, we have a couple of, I wanna give you an opportunity to go ahead and reply to some of that and then we'll go right over to Phantom with, you know, any notes that he has as well. So back to you, Par.

And even just to contribute towards what you were just saying there, I think, again, it was also Philip who was, that I heard saying, you know, there is a level of disempowerment amongst people of certain ethnic backgrounds and so on, because of certain ideas and that's just been portrayed in this random bitch called society who's never around to answer for her ills when you ask her what the hell's going on. So, you know, it's bringing back that individual empowerment of the individual. So then when we all link up together as a chain or a unit, that unit is fortified. Almost consider the 300 soldiers versus just having loads of random dudes with pitchforks and knives trying to be soldiers, you know? And I think that's probably what the powers that be have done to the to the collective consciousness of the people and I guess this is where there's an air of you know either anxieties or fears of oh what's going to happen oh they're doing this they're doing that oh but really and truly um you know if you're walking in your truest version of yourself, or your most empowered version of yourself, then, you know, that you solve problems and you embrace them because every single problem has a solution and you understand your greater purpose in all these things rather than freaking out because, you know, you know, let's just stop the freaking out and let's start freaking up, you know.

Turn up not turn down I say. And I'm gonna bring that charge back because I've noticed there's a tone that's missing to the point where I sound crazy sometimes when I go to certain places because everyone is just so like, Oh you don't want to speak too loudly, yeah you have to be careful huh? Oh don't dress too loud, oh don't be, oh yeah, oh. And everyone's always apologising. Oh no no no, 000 sorry sorry.

Everybody says sorry, oh sorry, sorry, sorry. So everybody, can we stop apologizing and just stop being grateful? You know?

Oh, man, I love this.

And all these different ideas, it's a different spectrum of the energy and it's a different spectrum of our emotional state as human beings that brings us back into our divine order. So really and truly all this kind of grazing as animals and trying to survive, survival is already considered, it's already done. The next level now is to evolve and match up with the technological advancements on a mass scale. Otherwise you've got simple minds telling you what the news is and it's not even, oh, I'm not even gonna get into it because I'm actually-

I know, I love this, I love this. We're on the age of thriving instead of just surviving And the way we thrive is doing it together. There was this old African proverb, it's if you wanna go far, go together. If you wanna go quick, go fast. Look, we're at the point where we've made it far and we're going further and we need to do that together.

And I just, I love that concept. But Phantom, you know, I want to be able to bring you into this discussion. Power is bringing up some just absolutely amazing points. And, you know, I know this was a hiatus day for you, Power, but for you to see the Innovators Think Tank, you know, maybe assume that there was a certain sentiment going on in here. You're right.

You're correct. This is the place for exactly what you're talking about. I'm glad you're here.

Thank God as well. So shout out to you. Like, I'm not even gonna lie. I was thinking, this is, mankind has no hope. It's just full of just only fan influences who are now gonna be the, oh my God, and they can't even dress.

So, boy, you know, listen, I'm so excited about this. And yeah, I'm on the same page.

I'm so excited to have you here. So excited to have you here. And I really hope that you can continue some of this. Fantom, over to you, brother. Sorry to step on your toes.

All you.

No, no, no, no worries, Josh. Anytime, anytime. So the main thing that I think, what I want to bring up, and I think that we all sort of have to think about moving forward. And this is something that I want to think about a lot. It is the concept of value distribution.

So economy tries to define value in our lives in various ways. And we are bound by the limitations of the current status quo of economic definitions. But as we are moving forward, technology is tokenizing our lives in various ways. So it is going to start modifying our behavior in very powerful ways that we don't even know or acknowledge. So I have been writing about helping people understand the complexity of technology, help them navigate that cognitive dissonance and anxiety, and maybe in a thought provoking sense come up with an answer by critically thinking for themselves because I don't believe in giving answers.

I only believe in giving questions because I think that it is up to you to come up with your own answer to my question but if you do come up to me with your answer then what I believe is that we can together discover reality together. So that is always what I believe. I believe that we all have to like share the observations, the inner phantom observations, and come and discover reality together as human beings. We cannot validate our inside mind, but the only way we can validate is by another human being. No phone, no technology will ever validate you.

It is purely another human being who has to consistently validate you to truly enrich the human life. And that is why I believe in the value-near proposition. That is why I believe that we should, you know, protect the human values. So yeah, up to you, Josh, go for it.

Yeah, I wanted to say everybody go check out that that sub stack that Phantom has, it's actually just a really, really incredible content, really good read. And, you know, his focus on engineering value, and what that looks like to engineer value and who's attributed to that process is so interesting. I love Phantom's way of thinking. Power I know you said your hand up, I would like to let you chat about that a little bit in response.

Dude, I'm literally getting so excited. It's too late this

time of night. Yeah, sure. But I'll speak out if you can give me the space.

Yeah, go ahead, bro. You can chat. I'll chat after you. No worries. If that's what you...

No. Are we done with Manda Mano?

Oh, no way. No way. This is still, I think, all in the same ballpark. I think part of this is dovetailing. This all brings right back to the digital humanitarian stuff.

And I think, you know, as that evolves and as we get more exposure and get more people, you know, to become creators, these types of discussions on top of the digital nomad 1 is so important. So to me, this kind of runs as a branch of discussion all entangled with this Odiheim point. So yeah, no, Kegan, I love this. And then I want to go back to Odiheim and get some of his take on what Phantom is saying, what I'm saying, you know, as somebody who's pioneering this movement.

Can you cut me short and then return back to the center and then I'll contribute later.

Sounds good, Keegan. So, so, Powell, over to you, man. You were giving some really cool notes on what Fantum's saying. I want to hear those.

I'm literally, dude, I'm literally starting to vibrate with just so much excitement. And I shouldn't be doing this, it's past midnight. But Phantom, you're absolutely in the right ballpark in the understandings. But I would like to even introduce the idea of bringing that same concept of learning how to use systems and processes for technology and think about the technology even more of a tertiary stage of the human mind. And in doing this there are certain certain I guess patterns of behavioral tools or concepts that can now go to enrich the individual as an individual basis so they show up to the game prepared, not only prepared but refined, sharpened and this is a whole series of, and again this is like 10 years of my professional background that I'm now having to I feel like God is punishing me because he's saying it's like my name is Earl you know if I don't if I if he's given me all these superpowers but if you don't start giving it to the people you know I'm just gonna make your life a living hell so I'm thinking shit okay fine I needed some more prep time but it's just time to go go gadget so yes my guys listen I know the techers I have an idea at the very least some ideas to share that are right right up this kind of wow serendipitous isn't it um But before I start rambling, because I'm famous for that, and I'll literally just start screaming in the neighbors, I appreciate that.

But yeah, Phantom Man, talk to me, because I might need to be talking to you on some stuff. So yeah, go, let's go, let's go, high 5.

Yeah, no, I love this. And before we go over to Phantom, I wanna take a minute just cause we have so many new listeners up in the tank, couple new speakers. Look, this is the Innovators Think Tank, week number 9. We've been doing this for 9 weeks in a row. This is the ninth week, okay?

Where we're usually going for 3 or 4 hours. You add that up, it's 30 to 40 hours of content coming to you live of creators in this tank, collaborating with big thinkers, folks with a different perspective, different education, different background. And it's exactly this digital humanitarian layer that I think Odiheim is unlocking for a number of people. And I'm so happy about. I also want to take a moment to say, anybody just now joining us, go check out the Nest.

We do have a Discord, so that way innovation can live on after this Think Tank ends, so we continue the discussion. If you're listening back now, I had no idea Keegan and Odiheim were going to come up. We had a couple speakers lined up. We also had the Tech Schools Initiative to share some AI. If that's something that we'll have some time for, we'll have to see.

But look, I wasn't planning on any of this, but there is so much value to be had when you host a space around these values and you have people who come and share their point of view. Man, I learn something every single day, every single day from all you guys. Thank you for being here. So I want to go over to Phantom first, some replies to Power. Power's, you know, clearly making some good points.

He's seen, you know, just so much serendipity, which we see week after week, Power. You're not the first person to come in here and say, holy shit, we found the squad. We found a group of people who seem to have their head on more straight, who are tackling projects, streamlining them to impact, and they want to make that a function of the greater world of everybody's ideas. Because we are

the resistance. We are the resistance and if anything we are the ones who are going to lead the future of the human species. Being, you know, call it what you will but for me to take it a step further in the grand scheme of things, let's not make that mistake. Absolutely. Because otherwise we're just going to be left with what we're currently seeing and it's boring.

Not only is it boring, but it's the yeah, you know, so yeah, man.

I want to hear from

you bro.

Speak for me. Me too.

Phantom. Sure, Power. So the main thing that I will say that, you know, so my current part in life is to work as a cost engineer. So the sad part is that I see the way economists define our lives with just numbers. And it's that 0 to 1, you know, the way Zealous was speaking, 0 to 1.

I feel like humans are way more complex than zeros and ones. That's never something I've ever understood, right? Like, so mathematics is objective, but it only can take you from 1 point to the next but it is up to you to like continue on your journey so in my head and my vision right is that like the economy is just trying to show us...

Phantom, where are you talking from?

Please tell me where you're talking from. Please, let's just be honest. Please. What do you mean?

I don't think it even matters. Phantom,

I

was literally saying this very thing today. Today I was saying this exact thing. It's a programming of the regression of the human being to regress back to human animal programming or biology. So that's effectively what we're beginning to experience within our human experience and that's why there's

The thing right so we are Biological beings and what technology just does is give more accessibility to control for people. So when you have data streams and information streams flowing in and out of you through like a phone, that is sort of partially making your reality warped because your local reality is more perfect than the global reality.

And it's because we've allowed ourselves to live at the mercy of the technology, assuming that the technology is now going to be the savior of our inability to survive or evolve, because inherently the evolutionary process and the expansion is always happening on a universal scale. But on a social level as human beings, there's a different state that we need to evolve to that, you know, that alpha state, the highest self, the, you know, divine masculine feminine. And in that, that's when they talk about the 1%ers, 10%ers, however many bloody percenters. It's just a state of being, a state of mind, and everything else is a physical manifestation of these, you know. You know, We fight not against flesh and blood because principalities and powers.

So the principal things aren't always bloody the same. And we've kind of relinquished our control and power because number 1, we either, nobody told us, we didn't go and seek the knowledge so therefore we didn't find. Or we just got conditioned, we just allowed ourselves to get programmed and conditioned and before you know it, you have an identity that's not even so much you in your truest form of self because you haven't cultivated it and accessed that. And I think when you take that, when you remind people, when you actually remind people of the, you know, the great omission here, people are almost, it's almost like there's this awakening, you know, some cultures call it the God consciousness, and the speaking of the I and I and you know speaking from this place is a place of the quantum mind, the divine mind and it's where you can bring something where you see in your mind's eye from the mind of the quantum and you bring it into the physical manifestation and that's what beings do that's what gods do But when you're just trying to survive as an animal now, you're at the mercy of your ecosystem, you know, the markets, this, if somebody likes me or not, all this rubbish, and it's such a disempowering state that we now have to find things to now alleviate the inability to deal with these new struggles that are supposed to be challenges to refine us into a sharper saw.

Shah, high 5 to you.

This is Such great stuff. I'm gonna go over to Phantom. I bet he has some great replies. Phantom, what you got?

Yeah, power. Like, I get what you're saying, but you know, the main thing I say is that, you know, you have to always understand and work with the people around you. No matter how much of a pain they are, at the end of the day, they are going to be the ones that are the closest to you in terms of physical reality. And the thing is, the global reality sort of gives us these new digital identities, I find. And what happens is that we have these cognitive moments where our digital identity and our local reality is sort of disconnected maybe because we are validated by an online audience or you know there is some sort of a validation from an awareness of a community that basically you're not getting within your local reality and that's what I'm saying.

This is

not, this is not a former president or even the president talking with a very funny voice.

I don't think it matters. I don't think it matters. And if we now take what I said earlier about in regards to the principle things always being the same and take and respond to what you just said, Phantom, is because inherently there is effectively a disconnect within our own cells and how we see ourselves. You know, the mind wants 1 thing, your heart wants something, but you know, you've got this version of yourself in so many different areas of your life, the work version of you, you in a relationship, you to your family, you within your workplace. And if we do not cultivate somebody who is, or an individual who is in their truest state all the time, moving from a place of intent, consciousness, integrity and these are just higher ends of the spectrum of the emotional state of the human being that's all and often times

these lower states... That's a big ask right like you're asking

Train how to Let me come in real quick. I'm gonna

do a quick recap for all these new people So we're gonna come right back to where we are right now with Power and Phantom. I want to tell everybody who's joining in, any new person tuning into the tank, so glad you're here. Innovators Think Tank week number 9 is underway. This is where we bring anybody with a project, a business, an idea to the front of the tank, and we have them collaborate with some big thinkers, folks with a different perspective, education, expertise. And so week number 9, this is just amazing.

It's been, I said to all these guys, 30 or 40 hours now of us being in this tank, making it happen. You can listen to all those past episodes and always keep up with us on Discord because this is going to end here soon but the Discord does not end. You can come in there, incubate, connect, post your products and services, find ways to connect with new people. It's just an awesome place. So I invite All you guys go to the nest, go check that out.

And thanks again for being here in the Innovators Think Tank. All right, let's hit play again. Power, what you got for us? And then also- Josh, you're probably gonna be my new

best friend still, I can't lie. Yeah, we need to chat.

Yeah, of course. Hey, if you come to that Discord, get in the Discord, there's a one-on-one area.

Dude, I'm gonna call you

on WhatsApp. We're gonna speak. Yeah, honestly, I'm not even tech savvy like that. I'm even wanna take it back to the time where I could post my mail with a hawk, you know, pages. You know, I'm good with that.

Like, If anything, too much technology for me, I frazz out. Even WhatsApp's a headache.

I thought Discord was going to be hard. It's not my native platform. It's not something I'm used to. But it's a really great place for us to continue conversation and it's free for everybody. I would just go with phones.

I mean, as long as you can communicate, it's fine.

But also, I want to share that it's hard to get Phantom in there. It's hard to get Odiheim. It's hard to get all these listeners in there. But I do want to talk to you 1 on 1, which we will do. And also, I want to share that I want you and Phantom to keep going.

But this just has a lot of correlation to the digital humanitarian thing that we're kind of discussing.

Yeah, I wanted to bring that in. So I wanted to like bring Odehiem in now. So the my question was going to sort of transition or segue from power to Odehiem and bring in the fact that so I believe that every platform sort of censors human values in a particular way and you can only display human values in the way that a particular platform's policy allows. So what happens is that digital identities get expressed in limited ways and those become the data sets that represent us. But sometimes, you know, we are like much bigger than any platforms data.

So I think that, you know, with Odiheim's digital humanitarian thing, I think we need to create like a layer that is of complexity that can interact with social media and provide that nuance of humanitarianism a little bit and protect some more of the privacy there. So what do you think, Odi? What is your idea of a digital humanitarian? How do you want to make the digital idea of the future?

Thanks so much. First of all, I'm already seeing 1 of my biggest strengths is to connect the dots and look at things from a big picture perspective. And when I look at already the connections I'm seeing here from the feedback from power, the feedback from, is it HAT, I can't even read your name is it 31 illuminated God and then phantom first of all Josh what I'm seeing here and my biggest and I think as an innovator I have to know 1 of the strengths I have learned is to accept and know my weaknesses. As much as I may be highly intellectual, very intelligent, creative and stuff, I suck at writing. I suck at doing simple things, you know.

And having dyslexia makes... I hate writing. I hate maths. Anything with numbers, I struggle. And I also, just like power, I like to have a conversation with someone on the phone, talk to someone, you know, And for me, it's about simplicity and about connecting those emotions.

When I look at the audience here, I'm seeing tech solutions initiatives in schools. They have a program for, I mean, they have my AI tutor program for schools. That's a collaboration which as Digital Manterian, we can work with and deploy it. I mean, teach schools on how they can learn to code, learn to, you know,

test games.

That's the future of what-

Philip, we're gonna talk as well.

I need

to get your number as well actually

and and power when you're talking I was listening to you I'm like hey um those points uh in terms of how can we collaborate how can you co-create because digital material for my vision is to incubate incubate like a neurodiverse hub of different thought leaders across the world where someone can help with, let's say, for example, like I'm seeing I've just been followed by tech in schools, I've just been followed by, what is it called, have a sponsor, I mean, have

a sponsor. What I will even introduce is even saying that we are those thought leaders to add a little bit of pressure to the thing because you know pressure creates diamonds because no 1 ain't cracking around here, you feel me? And in doing so I would even also introduce an idea of playing to our strengths to then overflow and then drown the weaknesses. Because inherently it's about once you do know yourself and you know what you're good at, you know your, play to your strengths. If you have to outsource the things of writing and so on, but I'm exactly the same.

I like, all I've needed literally over the last decade is probably just like an assistant PA because I literally do everything myself and that's what's slowing down the entire march of the army. But I just need an army, once I have an army it's game over but it took me so long for me to realize because I was so like again in the entire spectrum of the business structure. And sometimes you need to understand and know your position to play your position to the best possible play, you know? Being the visionary, being the founder, being the numbers guy, being the words lady or guy and if everyone's doing their role to their strengths then it's just a bluff in the park. That's why certain meetings, certain people, certain meetings and certain aspects of the business, we're just, being thought leader is staying in the space of thought lead and when it comes down to the labor and the manifestation of entire constructs and so on there are so many thousands and thousands of geniuses and experts who who will take our basic understanding of their world into a whole nother thing.

I'm thinking, wow, like there's some real, real evil scientists out here and here's me thinking that, you know, so it's bring them all in, bring them all in and not only will they be encouraged by, you know, the purpose of it, the integrity behind it, and the mission, which I feel a lot of things have to have, because then it allows us to then, everyone play your position and play it well. Because if I can't, if I don't look good in pink, I'm not showing up in pink. So I just have to do something else. We'll roll up in a pink car or something else. But fundamentally, let me just play to my strengths.

Let me just do what I need to do when I'm best at it. And I had a mentor, I had a mentor who taught me that in my last, in my last corporate job. And it sounds so simple but it changed the game for me in such a short space of time that I literally took over the, I changed the culture of the place because that inherently was my goal regardless of whatever, however much I'm earning and whatever idiot is trying to get me in HR for silliness. Nah, when you look past all these fickle things, then the greater good steps into play. It's a different tone, different energy, new ideas, different access to ideas and that's what that's that's kind of what I'm going to

be the

narrative I'm going to be spreading going forward.

I love this. I'm just

powering up right now.

I love this. No, no, no. Yeah, Josh,

I'm telling you, me and you, we're best friends now.

No, we are, 100%. We just, I'm sorry that we run it. And guys, I wanna give power to the room here. He's staying up till past midnight. He got shooken up awake with this tank.

And anybody new tuning in as a listener, let me tell you why power cares so much about this tank. Look, this is a place where we care about creating value, engineering value, where we care about bringing folks to the front of this tank to help them move to the next level, where we recognize that folks have different strengths, and we want to play to those strengths and create a beautiful harmony where we're effortlessly bringing our projects to life. And I love what you're saying, Love what you're saying. This TSI collaboration with Odiheim is something I'm just kind of, I listened to him talk about it briefly. And just give me the floor here for 1 moment.

I do want to say, Odiheim, that idea that you have of collaborating with the Tech in Schools Initiative to try to bring this next era. And let me tell you real quick, Odi, I have some background. The Tech in Schools Initiative came in on Innovators Think Tank, I think, number 5. And they launched the product suite. They had a bunch of products that were helping students in the university learn how to code, learn how to create things.

And what we saw is, hey, this is more than just students. This is for businesses. This is for entrepreneurs, for creators, and innovators, right? If we have the ability to learn how to do things that we were limited with before through the tools and things like AI, we can streamline our imagination or our ideas to impact. And so Odiheim, what we did is we had a code, it's called ITT, it gets you, I think, what we say, Ross, 10 or 20% off the package there.

But Odiheim, it creates then a free subscription for a student. And so I hope that we can grow this tank and have people go ahead and work with TSI, get his tool suite. This unlocks 1 free subscription for students. And then what we can do is even create opportunities for folks maybe across the world. And it sounds like Ross from TSI is joining us on the top of the panel, but create opportunities for students all over the world to learn how to use these tools.

Let me tell you right now, I've never coded in my entire life anything that made any sense. I sat down with Ross and used AI Tutor Plus Access and I coded out a complete WordPress plugin that worked from scratch. We tested it, it worked from scratch. Okay, you're telling me that there's not other folks who have fantastic ideas that if they could use language and prompt to produce those that the world wouldn't be better off with the products of their thoughts in it. Of course it would.

So TSI in the collaboration that he's brought from his years, Ross over at TSI, working with students into the setting of, you know, folks and let's say those types of communities, Odehiem, where we want to get their perspective, we want their expertise, we want their strengths, we want their all of it.

How do

we make that happen if we can't connect? And so, Power, real quick, I just want to say, we have TSI up here. Ross, thanks so much for jumping up on stage. I'm sure you saw those notes. I saw the DM from, or excuse me, the tweet from you to Odi Heim.

Is there maybe some potential synergy there between you and him and, you know, his mission to be a digital humanitarian? Do you see some synergies with you? And then, Power, I want to let you chime in right after that, my brother. You know, much love on my end. So, Ross, I want to hear from you, if you have any notes, man, on some of this stuff with, you know, getting folks in other countries to create things and then collaborate with the greater world, what does that look like to you?

Well, I did catch just like the tail end because I have like an issue that I have to fix at Best Buy. But yeah I mean for me honestly AI has just been the craziest thing for me. Like I am a good developer or great developer whatever but I'm not like superhuman, supernatural And that's what it does. So like, if you're not using it, man, you need to use it in any capacity. Because right now, I'm able to operate like 5 to 6 coders, which is nuts.

And we're building software together. Like, I think of these AI as like humans, even though they're not. Like, I know that. But like, it's hard sometimes.

And let me do Ross some justice, guys. When he was in this tank, not that he'll speak on his stuff. This is the most knowledgeable guy I've really seen build these tools. He was in our tank launching his product suite, or at least talking about it. And he shared this video of him on like the shark tank thing with some like big actors or they're really like wealthy folks who was filmed, it was a TV show called Elevator Pitch.

And he was the only person on that TV show to get awarded the ask that he gave to those investors within 60 seconds of being on this elevator and then answering some follow-up questions with his skillset. So when he says he's not a good developer, what he's trying to say is, you know, he's humble, he really does build things, he really does work with other people, and he really does do good work. So anybody in the tank or listening back to this, please give TSI a follow, check out that innovators think tank number, I think it was 5, could have been 6, but get in there and give that a look cause you'll learn a lot about these tools. And then feel free to hop in our discord ask some questions we'll be sure they get over to Ross or just DM him directly.

So yeah Ross's name's yeah Ross we're gonna speak you're another 1 on my phone book.

Yeah no problem And like I am I was gonna come in earlier But we have this like kind of little hack that we put together where you can like talk with an image and change it So if you guys want to

try this is so cool in Ross I have a hard stop unfortunately at the four-hour mark for me And so just to do justice to your demo, maybe what we tee up is everybody in the tech now just understanding that, look, what we're leading off with next week needs to be AI. Let's get Odi Heim in there, power, everybody come at the top of the hour on Saturday next week and let's do some demos. Just cause Ross, unfortunately, I don't want to cut you short because you have so much value to give.

We can do it next week. I just wanted to pop in at the end because I just got home because I actually bought like a crazy GPU to begin training my own models and stuff. And then like, it was dead on arrival, which is nuts. Like a $2, 000 GPU is dead on arrival.

Oh my goodness, that is so frustrating. Yeah, I hope you get that all kind of worked. We had somebody join the panel. I know we have some hands up. I know we have an ongoing discussion, you know, Odi Heim with us talking about this.

So there's lots of things in movement. We'll try to navigate them. Real quick, I want to have our new speaker who just came up to the top of the panel chat about whatever they would like, just in contributions so we can have more perspectives. It's always better, as we're saying. So is it we the people that came on up and did you have a note that you wanted to share with all of us talking here about Sona's?

Yes, you can call me Lisa. So the biggest issue with any tech right now is cybersecurity. It's supposed to hit $8 trillion this year. And my question is, if you were looking at it from your perspective with your business, with your software, how would you take AI with data analytics and your software to tighten up the security structure? Because that's a lot of money on the table that no one's really talking about.

Oh my god, did you just hear what she just said?

For sure, for sure. I think Ross would be in, if I'm not mistaken Lisa, this is a good question for Ross, so we'll let him have the floor.

Little bit.

Not you, Lisa.

Oh, only a little bit, because what we're doing is super secret, but basically there's a huge push for automated threat detection. And so the next step for us that we're building is a layer on top of all the software. So like it's an AI essentially, it's we're using Google's so Bison and the idea is that it moderates things like DDoS and enhanced security, runs the firewall. But the coolest part about it all is it could be as simple as, hey, what's going on today with the server? Or can you bump up the firewall using natural language?

And then it's gonna figure out how to do that and do it. And that's like what we're working on as we like progressively launch some more users, as we grow, as it passes like 500 people, these are things we have to think about. And to be completely transparent, we are applying and working with OpenAI for their million dollar grant for security.

It's just amazing. Lisa, did you have a follow-up question or any notes from what Ross was talking about here?

So education's a huge part of security too. And I know that there are several projects working on AI. The other question I would ask is how you can collaborate on both ends between the business and the front end of things to figure out the best way to educate consumers?

It's a tough question to answer because consumers don't even know what AI or chat GPT is. I would say only 40% of people in the world know what it is. And out of that percent who's the consumer, they probably don't even know. Like my parents don't even know. I have friends that I'm like, have you used AI?

They're like, what, like robots? And so that's the biggest problem. But for us, like we teach using AI even at like the high school level and college level. And we are working with colleges to make it part of the curriculum and not something that's banned. And then on the other side, we're using AI to protect student data, which is super interesting.

The best person to probably answer this is somebody who's done cyber security to maybe degree level I'm assuming and they'll probably have all the ins and outs and scope of where it can go right? And if so then I've got somebody to bring to the table. It's like the Avengers, isn't it?

Yeah, it's really confusing. No 1 really knows what's going on, but all people are doing is screwing. So everything that is done can be done again with AI, And that's kind of where we are now is like security can be redone. Like if you look at the bank, 1 of the banks just started using OpenAI GPT to do bad actors and fraud. So instead of like the text message and like the freezing of the account, it like talks to itself.

So you have like 1 bot that's like the security person and then you have like another bot that knows the protocol and then you have the bot that speaks to the people. And then like all that's automated and the phone calls stop. And like that's something that's new. And like that's the push to the future. Like if you do anything at all, anyone listening right now in 2023 does literally anything, anything with AI, you're going to make a lot of money.

And also every company is a data company, whether you like it or not. So You are a data and AI company, and that's just how it is. So you should just look at your company like that, and you'll see the value of your company skyrocket.

What a cool point, Ross. And Lisa, did you have any more questions or follow-up? Just kind of, Ross is a heavy hitter in this industry and somebody bringing the power of AI and truly innovation in my eyes to students in advocating for that. Lisa, any more questions on that end?

Sure. So does AI look at the simple solutions too? Like you know, when people were dealing with finances and not checking, like having the selfies with their IDs and things of that nature, does it go back and check the steps of the person that's controlling them to ensure that they're not missing those little steps that could cost big time money.

Well, see, that's the thing that a lot of people don't understand. See, like, it's not about it going back. It's going to get it right every time you're making your own model. Like I'm buying this $2, 000 GPU so I can train my own LLM. So I don't have to, like imagine a layer on top of OpenAI that like now looks at just your data.

So it doesn't make a mistake because it's your own data. It's not like the AI that just

said whatever

you want.

Hold on,

hold on, explain that to me again. So you mean you can get like a, almost like a cerebral that's yours?

Correct. So I demoed that here in the tank where you can build your own LLM like right in online in like 2 seconds. Yeah, it's crazy. What's happening

is crazy.

Yeah, go

check out ITT number, I think it's 6. I don't know, 1 of our co-hosts will put it in there. They'll figure out which 1 it is and they'll put it in there. You gotta go watch that 1, I'm telling you.

We did live demos.

Okay, you think it's 6? I mean,

I'm gonna speak to, I need to speak to Ross. Ross, we need to chat. I need to... Yeah,

man, anytime.

Yeah.

I'm even thinking about doing like a YouTube where I show people how to do this, like live.

We have to do a YouTube.

And like give away

the code. Yes, we will, Ross. I'm telling you. Boom, I'm telling you. I think I

wanna just give away code and be like, just build it and let me show you how easy it is. By the time this video ends, you built an LLM.

What is LLM? This is amazing.

A large language model. So like your own fine-tuned model on your own data. So like a good example for us, our students find Google really hard to look for how to use our platforms that we invented because obviously Google doesn't have it. Our help center is good but we're not good enough to get every single question unfortunately. So we put AI and trained it on my entire help center.

Now students can ask artificial intelligence where and when and how, and they will give them lesson plans on our software custom built with data that I actually fed it for training, and it trained for like 150 hours on my documentation. And now it goes everything like everything. Don't even create the documentation based on documentation. It's nuts. Students don't even ask for help anymore.

I see the log and they're like,

make me documentation

about this and that's what they put and then that's what it's crazy.

I love it. I wanna

share just real quick, Power, sorry to cut you off. We have a bunch of, and just so you guys know, we do some recaps here and there because we have some turnover in the listener side of things. And we wanna make sure everybody stays up to date. So look, this is Innovators Think Tank week number 9. We're bringing anybody with a project, business, or an idea to the front of the tank.

We let them collaborate with big thinkers, folks with a different perspective, education, expertise, and we innovate in real time. And it doesn't just end here. We have a Discord as well and a Twitter community for you guys to join and continue the conversation even after the space. So I'm so thankful for all you guys tuning in. This is week number 9.

I'm talking 30 to 40 plus hours we've been in this space, working with folks, making it happen, trying to drive forward, trying to create value. And so very glad that you guys are all here. Please feel free to share the space with any of your friends, if you think they'll enjoy it, maybe get something out of it. So just to pick

along back. And in the URL G9 is number of completion, just to add that little 2 pounds in there. And I'm almost thinking you lot are too cool to share with my nerds and friends, and I almost want to kind of, you know, be selfish in that regard, because you lot are respected geniuses in your field. But I've got some people to introduce you to specifically, for specific stuff.

I really appreciate that, sir. Yeah, yeah, any connections that you think would be worth it, I'd love to explore and collaborations with the new currency for exactly that. We can only be so good in our disciplines. Lisa, I wanted to give you an opportunity as a new speaker to chat with Ross for a moment, but also we've had some patient people who are just amazing. You know, we have Hart in here and then also Phantom, just 1 of my favorite innovators, 1 of my favorite valineers.

I can't wait to hear what he has to say as well. So, Hart, I want to hear from you And then, you know, any questions you have, any notes for this conversation? Let's push it forward and then we got to get our guy, Phantom, you know, the mic.

Oh, yes, I was loving what TIS was saying because I work with another project that's called My Kids NFT, and they're working on bringing the education into You know the children younger children So then they can learn how to use AI and learn the basics of blockchain and everything else So, you know, it it's also great if you're a beginner learner, they offer, you know, a couple, they got a couple educational courses out there and with AI changing constantly, they're constantly updating it. So maybe, maybe TIS, I can link you up with them and you guys can move forward with something and see if it happens. And my mentor also works with the women of Africa. So, that's another big project that I see going on because I mean, there's a lot of smart people there in Africa that don't get their time to shine because people overlook them.

What an excellent point, Art. I love that and I couldn't agree more what TSI is doing is presenting a huge opportunity for a globalized scene of educating folks to become creators and give them those tools and really explore all the beautiful things that should come from the world as a whole when we create together. I love what you're saying. Let's go over to Phantom. Odi Haim, I hope a lot of this stuff is just going in the same thread of what you're talking about.

And hopefully this all can build into more powerful mission for you and all those things in general. Phantom, I wanna give you the mic, sir. Always great to hear you, what's on your mind?

Yeah, thank you, Josh. And yeah, well, thank you to all the speakers who have like provided insane value, right? The main thing why collaboration is currency is because there is value in another human perspective right there is a new learning that comes from another human perspective that is just so valuable

that

conversation that you had just has a thread that is just running in the back of your mind and that Eventually comes out right it is just about getting caught to action And it is about what thoughts you put to action with intent and purpose is the manifestation of human value. So yeah, let's all stay together and thank you.

To even just add on the back of what you just said, Phantom, actually, before I forget this, we can actually begin to do this at a very, very elementary level by recording our own series of NLPs or thought patterns that we want to have as our mind's kind of construct. Something as simple as your own recording of you saying your affirmations, for example, I'm assuming people know what, you know, affirmations are, I'm not gonna, you know, insult you by going through the whole hoo-ha. But this was something I didn't even necessarily realise what I was doing when I did it way back then, I'm talking 2000 and probably 13 somewhere, but then I kind of had this recording that I'll kind of go to sleep to and then when we are in our sleeping state is when we are when our subconscious is the most receptive to information so naturally rather than just laying in my bed you know in a half coma and not really being aware of what's going on I still have that access of my of my being as available So let me put it to work. And I used to sleep with this recording.

You're talking hours and hours and hours of the same loop, loop, loop, loop, almost like a hypnosis somewhat or a reprogramming of self. And before I knew it, before I knew it, before I knew it, it became my language base on just how I responded to things and I initially you do this intentionally to get that outcome But when it actually does begin to happen, it's just like, 0000, I've actually become a mutant. Okay. I've actually got superpowers. Okay.

And then things begin to make sense. And then you just give appreciation to the truth. And it's just, it leaves you in such a space of empowerment and such a peace of mind that the kind of panics of the world just become like, oh guys, do we really have to just put out this little issue? Things become small and then the greater spectrums of the human experience become the reason for being, the reason for work, the reason to collaborate, the reason to go and meet up and just have more life and experience. You know and all the ones that we come against or come across the woe-we-me's, everyone's so hard, no it's not things aren't necessarily that hard it's we're probably just soft respectfully probably it's just a suggestion sure I used to use some of these things with some of my coaching clients and you know in the space where I was in when I started absolutely out of my depth but I realized I had the ability to connect with people and in and serve them and that allowed me to then go and research almost like a mad scientist dude I probably I remember I'll probably up for like 3 4 days and I was like right I need to just I need to be someone for me to attract the life that I wanna live.

And I understood this from a very, very young age. You know? And this whole paradigm of, oh, dude, I'm telling you now.

This is cool stuff. Power, if you don't mind sharing with me, what's your actual name?

You know

what, I've never actually told anybody my name and I wanna maybe, hmm, we'll go for Power now.

Well, Power, Power, I will say it's clear that you've spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff. You've been a well of insight throughout the last little bit of time. And we have 1 more hand up, which is still Lisa. I wanna give Lisa an opportunity to ask any more questions. And then guys, we've been going since 2, 2 p.m.

Mountain Time, I'm in Colorado. Okay, we're at 6 p.m. Right now, 4 hours in this tank, creating value, talking about some excellent things. And we have an excellent night coming up this evening, some fun that we'll be doing. And so we gotta get moving on to that.

But I do wanna hear from Lisa, and then I do wanna give some closing notes and have all of our great speakers share their notes as well, which can take just a couple minutes. So Lisa, final question from you, and then we're going to go into some closing notes and some closing thoughts in general.

I got a statement of questions. Statement is, I actually put a roadmap to how different businesses can use AI and data analytics in the different industries and by bringing all those together like the top 3 and finding the missing components for security, how it can make the industry stronger and more secure. And my question is, who thinks that they could explain that in a better way than the map I have out there? Because I think that's the hardest thing to do is to explain that in a way that every Every everyday person could understand anyone brave enough to try.

Oh Yeah, Lisa, listen, I'm a fan like you've just given me hella game right now so I'm gonna do my best to then kind of even take that a step further and say, you can even use AI to do all the necessary market research and find all the loopholes and pitfalls within the business and the struggles and so on by, you know, just however the AI will do it and tracking over the years and blah blah blah blah blah. And even offer them the solutions and come to them with the, with the, with the, the gold frankincense and myrrh. It's like, yeah, we've come from the East with a gift. And by doing so, you know, the businesses themselves, it opens up a whole new industry then that way. It's like you've come to them.

We say, yes, I can see you were struggling with whatever you're struggling with. I basically sorted it out for you. Here you go. They'll be like, wow, okay, cool, safe. And then so then that also challenges the designers, the creators to then almost predict and foresee things before they even happen.

And bro, before you know that, we'll just be, dude, it's like, yeah. Because it's a case of designing the world in which we want to live rather than just dealing with... Somebody once said to me, things that we see now are already old, effectively. You know? And, you know, when you really want to kind of innovate, you're pulling from a space and a sphere that doesn't even necessarily exist in the material world.

But it is very, very real in my mind's eye and it must be and it will come into the ether and be birthed into the ether the more we stay in tune with that effectively and on the level of thought this happens in an instant like we don't have to wait for the building to go up or we have to wait for the to get the money and so on it's like nah we are we are human humanitarians answer we are the resistance we are the evolution so that tone it shifts it completely shifts and Lisa listen in the in the last few couple of minutes I've heard you speak, you've literally just given me a whoa, game, game here. And my guy sitting next to you as well, Tech, bro, dude.

There's some big thinkers come up in here, Power. I totally agree. You know, and Lisa, thanks for your excellent questions over this, you know, a little bit of time.

Absolutely, and did I make sense of that, Lisa? I want to make sure I didn't just ramble at you and just shout.

Oh, it sounds like Lisa was loving your answer.

Yeah, yeah, Lisa, that's what it is. You're a boss, I'm telling you now. Yeah.

I love that.

Get the

stuff in the plane and step on the table. I wanna shift a little bit and just a tiny bit of gears and say, you know, the point that this all got opened up on was Odiheim sharing the 2 words that transformed and broke my brain for a moment, digital humanitarian. And I wanna leave everybody with kind of these ideas of a lot of what we're talking about here. And I am inviting Odiheim next time to come up into the Think Tank and share more of what he's doing. Maybe by that point, there's been some talks between TSI and delivering, you know, meaningful education and bringing resources and skills to creators in other countries.

I think that's such a powerful mission. And such a cool collaboration point from this tank guys, this look at this space wasn't around I don't know if that that connection would have happened even if it turns to nothing for me it's so cool to see the resonance between what you would think are missions that are far apart and they're not there's they're not so you know odheim I'm really excited to have you back into the tank to talk more about this. I know we dovetail our discussion in a number of directions, but all those directions I feel like gave fruit to the conversation. Anybody that's still in here now or maybe who left and joined back, this is now coming up at the end of innovators think tank number 9. Uh, I want to encourage everybody to go up into the nest and look at the discord community.

Okay. I don't use discord. I haven't used it much, but now I am because I realized the power of taking this think tank offline or excuse me, off spaces and into another platform where we can incubate, where we can connect, where we can share ideas and make sure that we're getting the most of the collaboration is the new currency idea that can happen here. But the tech space channels, the places to do that on the Discord is limitless. So I encourage everybody to go there and see if you can't join that community.

We would love to have you. So just as a pivot and as a tail end, we had brought up Odiheim, and I wanna give him an opportunity as this discussion was based around something that's close to his heart, the opportunity to give us some closing thoughts and then we'll go across the entire speaker panel, you know, Phantom, our value near, we'll let you end it, okay? So you'll be the very last 1 to kind of tie us in. Well, Let's go ahead and start with Odihaim. If you have any final notes for us, any good stuff, we'd love to hear it from you, my friend.

Absolutely. And it goes without saying that collaboration is the future. But for me, emotional connection, it's the currency because I connect with people's emotions. Like when I hear TSI talking, I connect with his voice. I get to connect with him.

And that's how I use my dyslexic thinking to visually connect with people and get to align my thoughts with them. At times when you send me an email, when you send me a link, I miss human touch points. So I normally connect with people when I hear their voice. And just by the conversations here, it shows how generative AI is the future. As in people like me who have learning and reading impairment can actually use generative AI to actually offer solutions.

Like I struggle a lot in doing admin work. And if there's something which I can collaborate with, I mean, with thought leaders like Ross, it's something which will help me a lot, especially to how do we give the deaf community, how do we help the visually impaired, how do we use AI to incubate our stories? How do we use AI in emergency response? Those are the questions which I'm already seeing from the collaborations here and even from the mentorships peer to peer, which Paul was talking about as in it gels well with the digital humanitarian mantra where it's just to create a neurodiversity space of thought leaders who incubate solutions for social good, incubate solutions to help generations, to incubate solutions to help the less fortunate in society, incubate solutions to give Africans like me who are not only gifted but differently abled but lack the tech muscle or the tech expertise to actually take the innovation to the next level. And for me, digital humanitarian, I visualize this to become an incubation space where the humanitarian agencies, the governments can actually come and actually get solutions.

I mean, when you look at the kind of money which gets wasted in my country, when you look at the kind of resources which gets wasted, which can be simplified by AI, and it shows how Africa can really save a lot of money in terms of disaster response, humanitarian agencies, health communications, mental health, education, and just by simplifying and using AI to teach my generation, my youth, my kids, and future generations on how to tell stories better, or even how to respond on the digital space as a humanitarian. As in, I'm tired of my country and Africa begging for donor funding. Why don't we learn how to fish? Why can't you teach us how to fish? And through AI, we can learn to be our own.

We can learn to do to incubate our own solutions. Because the way, Josh, you live, it's not the way I live in Kenya. The way I eat is not the way you eat. The ecosystems you are exposed to is not what I'm exposed to. So the digital humanitarian is a hub for social good, is a hub for where the tech can be used to save lives, to offer solutions to the less fortunate in society.

And for me, that's the collaboration I've seen here. And I'm really thanks to Josh for hosting this space. It's, what time is it? It's 3 in the morning in Nairobi. And 1 thing I've learned is if as a visionary, as an innovator, you have to adapt with the emerging trends.

And for me to adapt with the emerging trends, I have to be in a different time set for me to understand the future. You know, at times when you're in the future, you have to connect to the future. If you're an eagle, you can't fly with tickets. So just by seeing the work TSC does in terms of incubating solutions with using AI, just listening to him talking about coming up with a solution in a minute. It's like, how many lives can you save in Africa?

How many lives can you save in my country? The things which we struggle with in terms of poverty, health, all can be solved with collaborations where we all come together. If I'm good in 1 thing, you're good in another. And it's funny how I'm in Nairobi, 3 in the morning. I've just done an elevator pitch for the first time to an innovators think tank, number 9, and I'm already getting collaborations.

I'm in the D.A. We are changing, exchanging numbers, as in that's the future of collaboration. That's what we are talking about, where the world becomes a global village, where there's no boundary, where the digital space becomes like our backbone, where it's like a digital backbone, where I don't need a visa to come to America. You don't need a visa to come to Kenya, where we can use AI to transform our languages, to where you can just transcribe my Luo language into English. That's the kind of solution I'm looking at.

And TSI, thanks for pulling up. I really like the line of thought we the people came with, because at times we men speak things from a point of masculinity. When women come into the space, for me, I feel like it brings a different vibration. And that's the kind of collaboration I'm looking at, where I not only bond with thought leaders in both genders, but also my own community to see people from my own country in this space this late to here. And that to me is huge, man.

That's the future of collaboration. Thanks, Josh.

Now, Odihaim, what a, man, your closing thoughts there just moved me, man. I really appreciate you being here. I'm so glad that these connections are something of value to you, and I bet you that this can only go even further. And just the way that you put all of those key points, you know, I'd be doing an injustice to try to repeat them because you put them so well, so well, sir. So thank you for being here.

Everybody, let's go give Odiheim a follow. Let's follow this movement. Let's come back into this tank and keep giving this side of the sword to sharpen everybody else that comes, okay? I really appreciate you guys being here and Odiheim, especially, you know, and your friend Keegan down there who went to bat for you and said, Hey, we got to have him up here to talk. He's the reason for this.

He's the conduit of the universe for the idea here. He was pushing the thread and I may have not noticed what we were sitting on unless he made that point. So clearly a skill set of his and we hope he continues to be great on that. I wanna go over to Power, get some final notes from you, sir. Then we'll go up to Hart and make our way around the panel.

And yeah, this is great.

Yeah, no, I just want to just say, bro, it's hard to speak, but it's just a massive relief, massive relief because I was almost losing hope in the whole Twitter space thing and all this kind of stuff to the point where I was going to kind of, you know, get my stuff together in alignment to then come and, you know, literally change the game because I hold some information and perspectives that, you know, the way I express them in my own take on things with actual science-backed stuff and also anecdotal professional and personal experience that needs to help people. And, you know, it's just so, so, I can't tell you how relieved I am. And these things don't happen by accident, these things do not happen by accident. I'm ill, I've worn myself out over the last couple of weeks because I've been going so ham and you know I was just about to go to bed and I saw this, oh okay let's see what's happening and look, look, look, now I've got way too much energy for this time of night bro, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'll run a bath and just chill out a little bit because I'm just amped.

But definitely, definitely, I would like to say for anyone and everyone who's contributed to this and been in the think tank, I always like to say sharks swim, dead fish go with the flow and there is something to protect here. We are the innovators, we are the evolution, we are the ones. We are the ones that you know the established order will come for because we are basically changing the way things are and some people might not like that. So sometimes I always like to keep certain you know, you know, don't spoil the movie, just drop it, you know, but then in the background we just need to be kind of, we need to protect the creed, we need to protect the, the, you know, almost like a secret society, we can get cool, we can call it that. Or that's just me, I'm just weird like that.

But absolutely shout out to you lot. What I will say to each and every 1 of you, you are, you are it. So don't doubt that for a second, do not question it for a second. Like the more, and the more you step into that, it's not so much about kind of um um being pompous or or arrogant or anything else it's knowing and understanding who you are how you how far you've come and how much work you put in and that's why it's justified why you're doing what you are doing and that's why people respond now on an energetic level we draw in and build that that gravitation towards these pools. So this is just the beginning and we have a new world to completely redesign because I don't know what's going on in schools, people are getting dumber, things are getting more boring and before you know it, you know, no 1 knows it.

It's even difficult to identify as men and women anymore. Like that's just, they need our help, right? So let's rise to the challenge and just go and literally clean up the mess. And by doing so, we just help humanity. And I'll definitely say, definitely, Irvine, is that, I'll call him Phillip, I'll call him Phillip.

What you said about the feminine energy in a space like this, absolutely, you're absolutely right. And shout out to the woman as well, absolutely. Because in recent times, I'm not sure if you lads have realized but I don't know where all the men have gone. Men by in the virtue of men um on our respect um discipline you know the head of the house in that regard and then the women have had to pick up the slack um so shout out to you and yeah yeah I'm just so and bro tech I'm gonna call you tech. Tech I'm telling you now yeah dude uh there's a few people I need to introduce you to use people in Google because I think some big big companies can actually You know let them with the resources that they have.

And if we are bringing them solutions and they have the capital resource know-how and you know, all that stuff, then we can definitely collaborate with some big, big players. So thank you for just doing this. And you know, we'll be seeing me in a few months as well. I'm just getting ready for the world stage. I love it.

Power, thanks so much for those closing notes. And I couldn't agree with, you know, more of what you just said. There's such a powerful movement here. I feel blessed to be part of it and blessed that so many people come in here and see value and working together to make a better world, to engineer value with each other. And what all that entails, I think, will only get bigger and better as our community grows in strength, in size and numbers.

And so I'm just so excited to have everybody here. Lisa, I want to give you an opportunity for final notes as well. The stage is yours.

No man is perfect. No woman is perfect. That means no tech is perfect. But what if tech is the perfect way to bring peace to the entire world, to make it to where there never has to be another war. What if tech is the solution for everything that's gone wrong?

That's what I would like to leave on everybody's heart, because I saw it. I saw that vision. Tech is the solution. We just got to dig deep, find our true selves, and be loud about it and proud.

I love that, Lisa. Wow. What a powerful note. And just to echo a couple sentiments of Odi Heiman, It's been phenomenal having you here, your point of view and that note that you just shared. I'm gonna go back and listen to that again after this thing, Tank, and really think about some of that.

Thanks so much for being here. We hope you come next week as well, Lisa. It'd be awesome to have you on the panel, giving some questions, your point of view. Just incredible stuff, so thank you. Ross, we still have you up here, sir.

I know you presented in the tank. I know you're a man with lots of action and a lot going on. Did you have any closing notes you want to share with all these people who clearly have a lot of support for you, your mission, and see a world where you're kind of a builder of the next generation of tools that create the better world. Leave the stage to you, Ross.

Yeah, so I will just say like 2 things. 1, if you have like ideas around like security, education, anything really, you should like build it because I'll tell you right now, AI could see pictures. Someone said about what you do for a blind person, well, that doesn't exist, but it could. With an API call, you can see what's in front of you and talk, with voice, and it uses that language model to see in front of you and answer you. So you could literally ask what you see.

And these are things that people are gonna build. And the other thing I will say is if you do have an idea and you wanna build, first get your hands on some like really good unrestricted AI or get AI tutor, the infamous plug. And after that, build something because you can build and train on a consumer PC. So GPU wise, you need a

3060

or an equivalent, which is like a 2080 and so on and so forth. These things are cheap. It's so cheap right now. Like it's crazy. You could literally be 1 person team, build an entire app.

Like I know someone that is making $55, 000 a month, real numbers, real human, and I could give you his info on Twitter if you want his info, but all the website does is you upload 20 pictures of yourself and it changes your clothes. Literally that's it. It's called Photo Booth. And I was showing Josh that this is possible to build yourself quite simply and I built it in 1 day and Josh tried it and he changed his clothes and It's crazy.

Wait, I'm

like Yeah, so you can do anything Anything in the whole world that you could think about, you could build and AI could help. Think of it as your superhuman college intern that never sleeps. Now, you're able to have it go search the Internet for you on your behalf, and it's just getting better. Soon, AI Tutor is going to be answering your emails. It's going to be crazy.

God bless you, Ruf.

Well, these are some really cool thoughts from Ross. Clearly, you can see from the back-end view where things are headed, and his optimism is really refreshing from somebody who's actually building these tools. I wanna go over to Phantom to go ahead and give us a couple notes. Just a great thinker. What do you got for us, Phantom?

Yeah, thank you, Josh. And the 1 thing I think we all have to agree, is that we are all pioneers of our own thought, right? There is something unique about the way our perspectives work, because it's something that is so authentic to us that even if other people try to replicate it, they can only do so in a limited perspective. Because they only see you through your actions. They cannot read your thoughts.

No matter how clear you try to make your thoughts, they will always have a perceived value to your thoughts. So remember that when you pioneer your thoughts, share, collaborate, and basically I will tell only 1 thing, right? We have to work together as humanity, recognize the human, and then just realize that technology is just an extension of us, right? But the thing is there are good and bad actors with anything and everything. So we have to learn to be aware, learn to be careful and We have to build some of the solutions as the good communities so that we can stop the bad actors from taking control.

I think there is a good vision here. We are all aligning with our vision and we are all coming together for the greater good. So I love this community and this is gonna be like the start of something even better. So let's do this guys. Let's innovate.

What amazing notes from Phantom. Let's innovate indeed and let's do it together and let's fill in the gaps where we're falling short by God's hand, we know we do. And let's fill that in together and execute. I love that idea, Phantom. I'm so glad that that was 1 of our final notes here.

You know, we have 2 of our co-hosts, you guys don't hear from them too often. I do, and their perspective constantly moves me, and I just really love these guys. So I wanna give them a moment. Let's go over to Matia for any closing notes from him, and then we'll get cash money, Kev.

Yeah, thank you, Josh. Just wanna preach it 1 more time. I know you've been doing it the entire Think Tank, but guys, it doesn't have to end. Join the Discord server, and yeah, we can continue to innovate.

I love that. I love that. Kev is out on a Starlink satellite in the middle of Kansas, so sometimes his internet is not the best but he always tries he's always showing up and making it happen. Kevin if you can hear us man we want to hear some final notes from you. And boom see look we get this is a note for you on I'm gonna use- the zealous clip stop and I'm gonna quit this point right here I'm a send it right to you on okay.

So you know Kevin

yes everybody is just a little bit late.

Unfortunately you know we got cash money came on the lag switch Matthew go ahead and tell us what tells another note man You can fill in for Cash Money Kev. I know he would appreciate it. What do you got? No worries,

big shoes to fill, but just appreciate everybody coming out. Personally, This was my favorite innovator think tank, just really good conversations and just can't wait for the 10th 1.

Me too, I can't wait for the 10th. And guys, if anybody's watching this back, if you're live with us, look, we're ending the innovators think tank here, but it does not end here. This is why we made a Discord community. It's up inside the nest. Go click on that and at least peek in there.

See what we're doing. There's a place to add your own information into the networking bit so you can connect with other people, see what their strengths are, and really try to lean on more people for those things that are out of your wheelhouse. There's also an area for you to incubate your ideas, to talk about this think tank, to place your products and services up for all the innovators to utilize. So guys, this is an awesome Discord. I really hope that you guys can try to move over.

We're not leaving Twitter spaces by any means, but move over the conversation there afterwards where we can keep talking, because I love hearing from Power. I love hearing from Phantom. The session earlier was, Zealous was absolutely amazing. Odiheim, Keegan, all these guys. I also noticed we have some people that inspire me in the audience too.

This guy, Inaydi, he does spaces with the community and my goodness, does he move forward just a meaningful community of people. So guys, go give him a check out too. He's always collaborating and making things happen. I love that he's tuning in here. But amongst the Twitter community and the Discord community, we hope to see you guys in Innovators Think Tank number 10.

This has been 1 of my favorite too, Mattia, without a doubt. It's just been absolutely amazing to hear from everybody. So we have Cash Money Kev as a speaker. I can't not give him 1 more opportunity to give us final closing notes. So Cash Money Kev, if you have something to say to everybody, we'll let you say it.

If we got the Starlink issue again, then we'll pivot. I'm crying too, Matia. I'm crying too. Oh man, it's okay guys. Well, hey, that's a cliffhanger for ITT number

10.

You guys will hear Cash Money Cab at 1 point, I promise, I promise. So guys, keep innovating, let's use this next week. Okay, your Sunday, rest a little bit, go into Monday through Friday and crush it. Let's come back here on Saturday, same time and talk about our weeks, move forward our projects, collaborate, and just do the whole show again. We'll have some great speakers, some great thinkers, and I just can't wait to see you guys next week.

So guys, thanks for being here. It's been 4 and a half hours of Innovators Think Tank. I hope

you