A discussion on individuals becoming millionaires through meme coins and the importance of community, along with skepticism towards meme coins and the concept of financial nihilism.

Rise of Meme Coin Millionaires

Exploring Web3 as a new frontier, the potential of AI in the crypto space, and an introduction to Jason Choi and his background in crypto investments.

Web3, AI, and Blockcrunch Podcast Introduction

Introducing Murad, a Princeton graduate and meme coin investor, recounting his early experiences with Bitcoin and investment strategies, along with his philosophical views on meme coins.

Murad's Crypto Journey and Philosophical Views

Discussion on the ideological differences between Bitcoin and meme coins, the challenges in valuing meme coins, and how economic anxiety drives investment in them.

Meme Coins Ideologies and Economic Anxiety

Exploring the evolution of meme coins, their potential future, and the dynamics of community engagement that drive their success beyond financial incentives.

Trends, Predictions, and Community Dynamics in Meme Coins

Debate on the importance of utility in meme coins, understanding retail investors' motivations, and their impact on market dynamics.

Utility, Speculation, and Retail Investors in Meme Coins

Exploring the separation between software functionality and token valuation, analyzing altcoin market dynamics, and critiquing high-valuation altcoins.

The Dichotomy of Crypto Products and Market Dynamics

Outlining the process and metrics for evaluating meme coins, discussing the significance of community, and the ideal profile of meme coin founders.

Frameworks for Meme Coin Evaluation

Comparison of celebrity-backed meme coins to decentralized tokens, along with sharing top picks for meme coins that may achieve cultural relevance.

Celebrity Coins vs. Organic Memes and Top Picks

- A group of 50-100 individuals transitioned from poverty to millionaire status, becoming full-time advocates for a cryptocurrency called tau.
- The importance of community in the cryptocurrency space is emphasized.
- Identifying successful meme coins (referred to as "cults") is key for investment.
- The speaker reflects on the speculative nature of meme coins and their potential to attract attention.
- The podcast features a guest, Murad, who shares his philosophical views and investment strategies regarding meme coins.
- Murad's background includes experience in finance and running a fund focused on Bitcoin.
- The discussion touches on the financial nihilism perspective, where younger generations seek high-risk investments due to economic pressures.
- The episode aims to educate listeners on meme coins without providing financial advice.

- Meme coins are viewed as tokenized vessels of faith rather than traditional currencies or investments.
- They reflect dissatisfaction in both the crypto world and society at large, fostering cult-like communities similar to Bitcoin.
- The rise of meme coins is linked to increased financial inequality and economic anxiety, especially among younger generations.
- The evolution of altcoins has shifted from traditional tech projects to more speculative and meme-driven assets.
- Meme coins are seen as a hyper-accelerated version of software, stripping away traditional metrics and focusing solely on community and asset value.
- The speaker argues that most altcoins are essentially meme coins, lacking substantial backing or justification for their valuations.
- The ideology surrounding meme coins reflects a sense of financial nihilism among younger investors, pushing them towards speculative investments.

- Platforms like PumpFun enable quick creation of meme coins, accelerating their production.
- Two categories of meme coins are emerging: 
  - Hyper gambling coins focused on rapid profit (e.g., "pump and dump").
  - PVE coins building communities with long-term goals (e.g., aiming for significant valuations).
- The future may see 10 out of 20-30 cult-like communities becoming influential brands or movements.
- A shift from animal-themed meme coins to more serious, ideology-driven coins is anticipated.
- Meme coins can leverage "free cult labor" from holders, potentially surpassing traditional DAOs in impact despite smaller treasuries.
- Utility in meme coins may be counterproductive in bull markets, as speculative interest drives value.
- Retail investors prioritize community and profit over technology in the crypto space.

- Meme coins, despite being largely speculative, have a utility component and serve as community-building platforms (C2C).
- The decline of traditional religion has led people to seek connection and meaning in new forms, including meme coins.
- The value of meme coins is driven more by community and attention rather than actual software utility.
- There is a distinction between the technology side of crypto and the token side; often they are not connected.
- While Bitcoin (BTC) has long-term potential, many investors are focused on short-term gains, leading them to meme coins.
- The rise of meme coins can be seen as a response to high valuations and limited access to early-stage tech investments for retail investors.
- VC-backed tokens often list at inflated valuations, extracting wealth from retail investors.
- The ban on ICOs has pushed retail investors towards meme coins, as they lack access to early-stage tech opportunities.
- The speaker emphasizes the need for frameworks to analyze and understand meme coins better.

- Underwriting meme coins involves assessing their potential for critical mass, defined as reaching a $1 billion valuation.
- The speaker predicts a surge in meme coins, potentially leading to one for every conceivable concept.
- Key factors for success include identifying strong community support (cult-like followings) and ensuring the coin has been active for at least six months.
- Successful meme coins typically experience multiple significant price drops, which test and solidify community commitment.
- Evaluation metrics include holder distribution and community engagement, emphasizing organic and decentralized projects.
- The speaker focuses on mid-cap meme coins for optimal risk-reward potential, avoiding both large caps and new launches.
- The risk of "cabal coins," where a small group controls most of the supply, is highlighted as detrimental to the meme coin ethos.

- Emphasis on the importance of decentralized communities for meme coins.
- Critique of "Cabal coins" where a small group controls a large supply, leading to manipulative marketing tactics.
- Preference for leaderless meme coins that promote community involvement and decentralization.
- Skepticism towards celebrity coins; belief that universal concepts are more powerful than individual personalities.
- Highlight of Iggy Azalea's persistence with her coin despite the trend of celebrity coins failing.
- Mention of meme coins with potential for cultural relevance: SPX 6900, Giga, Popcat, Mog, Apu, Harry Potter, Obama, Sonic, and Inu.
- Encouragement for individual research and following on Twitter for more insights.

- A group transitioned from poverty to millionaire status, advocating for the cryptocurrency tau.
- Emphasizes community importance in cryptocurrency.
- Successful meme coins, or "cults," are key for investment.
- Reflects on the speculative nature of meme coins and their attention-grabbing potential.
- Guest Murad shares investment strategies and philosophical views on meme coins.
- Murad has finance experience and runs a Bitcoin-focused fund.
- Discusses financial nihilism among younger generations seeking high-risk investments.
- Aims to educate on meme coins without financial advice.
- Meme coins are seen as vessels of faith, reflecting societal dissatisfaction.
- Linked to financial inequality and economic anxiety in younger generations.
- Evolution of altcoins has shifted to speculative, meme-driven assets.
- Most altcoins are considered meme coins with little backing.
- Meme coins reflect a sense of financial nihilism and speculative investment trends.
- Platforms like PumpFun enable rapid meme coin creation.
- Two emerging categories: hyper gambling coins and community-focused PVE coins.
- Anticipates influential cult-like communities from meme coins.
- Shift from animal-themed to serious, ideology-driven meme coins expected.
- Meme coins leverage "free cult labor" from holders.
- Speculative interest drives meme coin value over utility in bull markets.
- Retail investors prioritize community and profit over technology.
- Meme coins serve as community-building platforms despite speculation.
- Decline of traditional religion drives search for connection in meme coins.
- Value driven by community and attention rather than software utility.
- Distinction between technology and token sides of crypto emphasized.
- Bitcoin has long-term potential, but many investors chase short-term gains.
- Rise of meme coins responds to high valuations and limited access for retail investors.
- VC-backed tokens often have inflated valuations, harming retail investors.
- Ban on ICOs pushes retail investors towards meme coins.
- Need for frameworks to analyze meme coins highlighted.
- Underwriting involves assessing potential for critical mass and community support.
- Successful meme coins often experience significant price drops to test commitment.
- Evaluation metrics include holder distribution and community engagement.
- Focus on mid-cap meme coins for optimal risk-reward potential.
- Risk of "cabal coins" with concentrated supply criticized.
- Decentralized communities are vital for meme coin success.
- Preference for leaderless meme coins promoting community involvement.
- Skepticism towards celebrity coins; universal concepts seen as more powerful.
- Mention of culturally relevant meme coins and encouragement for individual research.

Now what you're seeing, there's like 50 to 100 people that essentially went from being poor to being millionaires.

And now they've quit their jobs and become full-time evangelists and growth hackers for tau.

And essentially, it's all about community.

And so you have to first, the first step you need to do is you need to take those millions of mean coins and identify cult.

Like I said, in my personal opinion, there's like 25 of them right now.

Our jobs to buy great tech at great prices.

Enable use case that people haven't been able to do today.

The next hundreds of millions of players and they will come to the market through mobile.

My personal reason why I could be bullish Blockwrench is not a licensed financial advisor and is purely for informational and entertainment purposes only.

All opinions are personal and the show may discuss assets that the host Let's get started.

Welcome back to another episode of the Blockcrunch Podcast.

I'm also the co-founder of Tangent, a prop shop where we invest in founder-driven venture bets and thesis-driven liquid bets in the crypto markets.

Now, as someone who is mostly in it for the tech and partly in it for the fun and believe in using crypto as a way to change the world, I've had my reservations about meme coins.

At first, I saw them as nothing more than pure speculation, but I also saw their ability to command attention like no other, which is why I invested in MemeLand, which is a project by the founder of 9GaG, 1 of the first and biggest meme sites in the world, Ray Chan, who wanted to use this community around a meme coin to distribute real DeFi and social fire products.

Now this investment was made before the meme coin mania of 2023.

And I got a lot of flak from VCs and traders on Twitter when I announced my personal investment at that time.

Now, interestingly, most of these traders are now shilling newer meme coins, but that's besides the point.

Now, except for the meme land investment, I've not really considered meme coins as anything besides a trade.

But over time, I saw that 1 of the most profitable apps that came in the past year or so for crypto was actually a meme coin launch pad called Pumped.Fun, which we talk about on our roundtable series multiple times.

So I began to dig deeper and deeper into what meme coins actually are.

So to me, in a way, meme coins are almost emblematic of what some investors would call financial nihilism, which is this recognition or belief that with the rising costs of living and worsening outlook, younger generations can no longer aspire to the same quality of living that past generations could by taking on normal 9 to fives and they're encouraged to take on massive risk or take hail mary bets to really ascend their social ladders.

So some of these people would do startups others would trade crypto So some would even say that crypto as a whole is a symptom of this financial nihilism Now others who are in crypto would say that by outlawing ICOs back in 2018 now retails can actually no longer invest in promising new technologies alongside accredited investors and angels like myself or large VC funds, which forced them to invest in fairly launched meme coins.

To discuss all of this, the social implications and the financial implications of meme coins, my next guest today is Murad, who goes by muststopmurad on Twitter.

Now, Murad is a Princeton graduate who worked in finance before starting his fund Adaptive Capital in 2019, which mostly focused on Bitcoin.

Now subsequently he closed the fund in 2020 and he has built a bigger following for his commentary on meme coins.

Now most interesting to me about Murad is that he has a buy and hold philosophy on meme coins and a very philosophical take on the entire vertical, which differs from a lot of the meme coin trading commentary that I don't find particularly interesting for the show.

So in this episode, in the first half, we're going to discuss Murad's philosophical view on meme coins, where it comes from, what is emblematic of.

Now I did disagree with quite a few points that he made and I did push back on some of them, but I kept my interjections to a minimum to let listeners decide for themselves.

Now in the second half, we dive into Murad's investment framework for meme coins.

And finally, we dive into Murad's favorite meme communities.

And while Murad does name a few meme coins, do not, I repeat, do not use this podcast as financial advice, because neither of us are financial advisors.

This entire podcast is purely for educational purposes only.

So without further ado, let's talk meme coins.

So Ron, I know you've been in a space for a while.

I've actually listened to a few of your podcasts dating way back, I think in 2018, 2019.

We were talking about this before we started recording as well.

And I was looking up your senior thesis in 2017, where you wrote about the debt crisis in China as well.

So I think you're a crypto guy through and through.

So walk me through the journey of how you kind of started looking into Bitcoin, investing in Bitcoin and how that led you to your current thesis with the meme coin supercycle.

Yeah, so I was in China in 2013, and I had an American friend there who was without naming specific names, He was employee number 4 and the first foreign employee of what is currently, I think, the second or the third biggest centralized exchange in the world.

And back then it was literally just 4 guys in a room.

So I was kind of like at the right place at the right time.

And that's how I got my early sort of Bitcoin knowledge, Bitcoin exposure.

And to tell you the truth, you know, it was during that bubble in like 2013, 2014, only got a couple of coins for myself.

But once 2016 2017 rolled around, and Ethereum was sort of having its rise, ICOs were having its rise, I sort of started spending more and more time in crypto.

And ever since then, I've been doing a bunch of different things, obviously, a lot of personal investing, a lot of personal trading, a lot of reading, a lot of writing, was doing a lot of on-chain analytics back in the day for BTC.

Now I'm doing a lot of sort of on-chain analytics where appropriate for meme coins.

Since they like don't have a software product of their own, you do need to sort of go deeper into sort of the tokenomics and the distribution and the flows, because that's like 1 of the few variables that you can track.

And in general, besides that, I also had a hedge fund in 2019-2020.

More recently, I've been building STFX, which is a DeFi slash SocialFi protocol.

But on the personal side, I've been sort of investing, studying meme coins, like for the past 8 to 9 months more actively, and just been trying to share my views sort of with the world and my Twitter following.

Before I get started, I'm grateful for Aptos for sponsoring the show and letting us continue to make this free content for all.

So here's Jerome from Aptos to tell us a little bit more.

Jerome Aptos is gaining traction with entities interested in bridging traditional finance with DeFi.

Some notable developments are Ondo Finance's integration of Aptos, which brings institutional-grade finance on-chain, and ecosystem project Aptos Labs becoming a strategic investor in Securitize, which is an RWA platform offering tokenized fund investments.

So can you explain why Aptos is such an attractive network for onboarding Web2 financial markets and services?

So Aptos is the world's fastest, most reliable, interoperable layer 1 blockchain, making it the fastest, most accessible payment reel in the world.

For quick context, Visa processes 1, 600 transactions per second.

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That's 18 times faster than Visa and feels instantaneous to users.

For this reason, Aptos isn't just a blockchain fit to bring RWAs on-chain, it is the blockchain for bridging the TrapFi DeFi data.

In addition to ondo and securitized developments, Aptos Labs in collaboration with Brevin Howard, BCG, SK Telecom and Microsoft announced Aptos Ascent, a suite of blockchain-based tools and features on the Aptos blockchain designed to meet the requirements of financial institutions while at the same time leveraging the openness, scalability, security, speed and reliability of the public Eptos network.

Eptos Ascent will provide a Web3 path for any major bank or financial institution in the world to begin offering digital asset and asset management services to the client's responsibility and their skill.

It represents a massive step forward in bridging the gap between Treffi and DeFi innovation with the industry's key stakeholders.

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Yeah, I think it's really interesting because I remember following your journey in 2019 when you were running Adaptive capital and sharing a lot of on-chain analytics about Bitcoin, which at that time I don't think a lot of people were even using a combination of on-chain and off-chain data So that was quite interesting And I remember back then you talked a lot about sound money, the thesis for Bitcoin.

And so obviously the meme coin super cycle is quite a different thing.

So walk us through the logic of, you know, how did you go from a sound money is probably the biggest use cases in crypto to a meme coins is actually the thing we should be paying attention to.

A really good analogy I like to make, and something that I'm sure you've heard about is horseshoe theory.

Horseshoe theory is this concept in politics that, you know, traditionally, for example, the far left and the far right were at the polar opposite ends of the political spectrum.

But if you actually look closely, they're more similar than they are different.

And that's why people came up with the horseshoe theory saying that it's actually like the centrists in the middle and the far left and the far right are actually touching each other So they're much more similar than they are different Obviously BTC is trying to be the neo gold.

So it's trying to be the money of the future While meme coins are something else entirely, right?

A lot of people ask me how do you value meme coins because they're obviously not equity, they're obviously not debt, they're kind of different to tech alt as well in some ways and I don't think they are a currency either, although some people have tried to analyze them as a social currency.

The way I see them is they're essentially a tokenized vessel of faith.

And more specifically, I think they are financial vessels that are absorbing different kinds of dissatisfaction, both within crypto but also with the world at large, and we can kind of dig into that deeper in a few minutes.

But the 1 thing that BTC and meme coins, at least the best meme coins in my opinion have in common, is that almost like religious-like feel, right?

It's that cult-like organization structure.

And I think you would agree with me that BTC is extremely culty, right?

Many blogs and many sort of theorists have even described BTC as a sort of a neo-religion, right?

Satoshi is kind of like the messiah, right?

And I always tell people that the best meme coins are actually going to be the ones that are like Bitcoin like whether it's their message or it's their culture or it's the hodlers or it's like the community or it's like the memes like the more similar it is to BTC the higher the meme coin will go because BTC is, other than the fact that it has a memetic component of its own, it is the original cult in crypto, right?

And it has perfected that sort of formula.

And so That's why I draw parallels between these 2 things.

And I jokingly say that like the thousands of blogs by Bitcoin maximalists that we've all, I'm sure, done in 2017, 2018, 2019.

For me, at least, that was perfect preparation.

Because the way I see it is for better or worse, right?

Bitcoiners talk about sort of like the 1880s as like the glorious time, La Belle Epoque, Paris, London, when the gold standard was at its greatest extent.

And if hyper Bitcoinization happens in the future, in the coming decades, I do think we will see a resurgence of that kind of culture and that kind of time driven by deflationary money.

But I suspect that before things get better, they quote unquote get worse.

And so I think we're going to see like Weimar or early Weimar before we see hyper Bitcoinization, right?

Because I do think that the governments around the world for the next 10, 15 years, they're going to continue printing.

And then we sort of have to get into the discussion of how does inflation affect the average or the baseline aggregate level of anxiety in people.

And then that anxiety sort of affects people at like the biochemical level.

And then that sort of drives collective investor behavior.

And essentially, and this is what I've been talking about in my presentations and in a lot of podcasts.

This is by no means a controversial idea, but if you look at the past cycles and this cycle, essentially what you're seeing is the core narrative or the core altcoin themes, the core altcoin categories that are dominating, they almost have to get crazier, right?

In 2017, you almost saw like a vanilla sort of, okay, blockchain, the world is discovering blockchain.

We have these like ICOs, we have these like technology projects, we're gonna be using blockchain for this, blockchain for that, I'm sure you remember that.

Then 2021, I would argue, started off with DeFi, but kind of gotten crazier with the quote unquote metaverse, NFTs, GameFi, and then towards the tail end of 2021, a lot of flat out ponzonomic things, right?

Now, the core themes of this cycle, it's meme coins, which I would argue sort of take that trend even further, and to some extent, AI.

I mean, side note, Personally, like we jokingly refer to AI coins as meme coins for midwits.

And I think because there's more money in the system, because there's more inequality in the system, and because people are sort of like pushed and the opportunities, especially for zoomers, right, let alone for generation alpha, it's going to be crazy, right?

Fundamentally, you have to understand the following idea.

In the 1950s in the Western world, right, or frankly anywhere in the world, our grandfathers, our great grandfathers, they could have like relatively modest jobs and somehow still afford a house, somehow still afford like 3, 4 kids and so on and so forth.

We can say that, oh, it's because of like offshoring, globalization, onshore, et cetera, but I'm sure you would agree that a big part of this has to do with like the nature of money, the nature of the financial system, and how real estate and the stock market, the bond market, they all get monetized to a greater extent than they have to be.

And so Zoomers are in a, Zoomers genuinely, their life is harder than people in the 1960s, people in the 1970s.

And so these are some of the reasons, and there's many more, why people are essentially being pushed into these quote unquote Hail Mary plays.

And that's why people are getting pushed to these, to these things.

Now that's kind of 1 way of looking at it.

The other way of looking at it is sort of, and the reason I wanted to come on this podcast is because I know you run a sort of a prop VC firm, right?

And so, you know, in, in the 2000s and the 2010s, sort of the venture capital industry and Silicon Valley as a whole, became a really like a bigger and bigger part of the American economy.

And a big reason for that is because you essentially saw a transition from like physical companies and physical corporations where you needed brick and mortar stores, factories, logistics and all of that, right?

And software was very attractive to find like venture scale returns because since you since like you know Airbnb doesn't have any homes that they own, Uber doesn't technically own any cars.

And so because it's purely software, if you do find product market fit, that software can essentially conquer the world very rapidly, right?

And that can give you those 100X, 1000X type returns in a relatively short period of time compared to like industrial businesses, right?

Now, I think what's happening here, as crazy as that sounds, I think, and by the way, like paradoxically, obviously all of this is driven by the rapidly growing money supply around the world.

But what I think is happening here is meme coins.

They take this, like if, if in Silicon Valley unicorns, you had like the equity and then you had like the software platform with its metrics, meme coins essentially strip away the platform, strip away the metrics and they essentially just keep the asset because if software could conquer the world very fast, You still needed like sales desks, you still needed to find product market fit, you still needed people to download some app or whatever, right?

But here, meme coins, because they're based on memes, they can conquer the world even a hundred times faster than software.

And so essentially, it's like hyper accelerationist in a way.

They take that to the next level where it's post software and now you just have the asset itself.

And essentially you have these communities that are built around this asset.

Now my thesis, and some people sort of think it's a bit controversial but my thesis is that 99.99% of altcoins that have ever existed in crypto since 2014 They've all been meme coins all along and it's all been the medic all along right?

I'm sure you understand right even the current crop of VC darling alts that have been getting listed on tier 1 exchanges at 10 to 20 billion dollar valuations I mean if you dig deep and try to do any kind of discount cash flow analysis, you know, like they have 11000 dollar in daily fees, weekly fees, whatever.

That doesn't justify their 20, 20 billion dollar valuation.

I want to jump in here real quick first because there's a lot to unpack with the fundamentals for so-called tech alts, which are alts with products behind.

So going back to the initial point about the horseshoe theory, which is Bitcoin is this asset that is almost exporting an ideology.

And that ideology is very easy to understand for people in this space.

It's like the cypher-punk ideology of self-sovereignty, sound money, a kind of immutable monetary supply.

And on the other side, from what you're describing, it sounds like the ideology that is being explored, the cult that is being built around from unicorns, is almost like a sense of financial nihilism.

It's like everything is kind of screwed for Gen Z.

So let's gamble on these things knowing that there's kind of no product behind that.

Is that the kind of ideology that people are rallying behind?

I think that's like 1 of the 3, 4 core factors.

But you kind of have to dig a little bit deeper into the meme coin space.

And essentially, platforms like PumpFun, which allow pretty much anybody in the world to create a meme coin with 1 click, What they're doing is they are accelerating.

And I think this, like these next few sentences is something that VCs miss, I think, and something that they need to understand.

Pump Fund accelerates the splitting of the MeanCoin asset class into 2 distinct categories.

1 is the hyper gambling and the extreme nihilism that you've mentioned, which is essentially like slot machines.

Let me figure out how I can quickly turn 10 Solana into 50 Solana.

Just try to snipe, try to bundle, try to catch a quick pump and then forget about it.

And if there's 5, 000 of these happening today, in 6 months, there's going to be like 500, 000 of these happening per day, right?

So the rate of meme coin production per day is going to grow.

And that's an important variable to understand now, right?

Now, on the other hand, you have, and in my opinion, I think there's like, right now, like 20 to 25 of these, you have what we call PVE coins.

For a lack of a better word, they're trying to build the next doge.

They're genuinely want to figure out a way to achieve 30 billion, 50 billion, even a hundred billion dollar valuations.

A lot of them naturally and emergently, they evangelize the philosophy of holding it, philosophy of DCA and philosophy of like holding only like 1 to 3 of these hardcore PDE mean coins instead of gambling every day, Right?

Stop trading and believe in something is how we describe it.

And essentially, these are what we call cults.

And I think right now there's like 20 to 25 of them.

And what I'm recommending, not financial advice of course, but what I'm recommending to all of my friends and people who message me and people who come to me is figure like it doesn't matter if there's a billion mean coins or even a trillion mean at the end of the day right now there's like 20 to 30 cults now my theory for the future of meme coins is within those 20 and 30 cults maybe 10 will become like brands or like some kind of like a lifestyle thing, right?

And then within those 10, you're going to have like 3 or 4 that what I call our movement coin, mission coin, right?

And by the way, I have a lot of theories about like the meme coin space, but this also has to do with 1 of my prediction is we're going to see a transition from animal coins to non animal coins.

Second theory of mine is that we're going to see a transition from jokes, like because you know, meme coin started as a joke, right?

If you tell a random crypto person or random retail person the word meme coin, they think like it's a picture of a dog, right?

But you know, as I'm sure you're a student of history, you're a student of technological cycles, speculation cycles, you know, huge things or things that ended becoming huge, they often start off as a toy.

They often start off as some childish thing, some joke, right?

And I think meme coins are actually going to grow far beyond the Doge vision.

We call this the post-doge movement, right?

And personally, I'm attracted to coins that are far more interesting, far more inspiring, far more serious than just another animal coin.

I want to find something that can become like a global ideology, like you said, a global movement, a global philosophy.

Because at the end of the day, what's going on is the meme coins that will win are those that trigger the most amount of free cult labor in their holders, right?

And what we call free cult labor is essentially within these meme coins, we have holders.

Some of them are like obviously crypto, Twitter, large accounts.

And what they would usually charge external companies like 20, 000, $30, 000 worth to do because they are holding these meme coins and beyond the financial incentive because they're spiritually and philosophically aligned with them.

They are motivated to perform or to take action for the sake of the meme coin.

And that's why I say, and this is crazy by the way, I think meme coin cults are going to achieve the DAO vision Even though they don't have a treasury right so you know the DAO dream the network state dream that people have been talking about since 2018 right The reason is and a lot of these DAOs they have massive treasuries like hundred million even a billion dollars, right?

Mean coins have very small treasuries a lot of them don't even have 0 right but yet I think they're gonna grow bigger than the DAOs and they're actually gonna come closer to the organizational DDO dream why?

Because belief is much more powerful than even monetary incentive and like yield, like, you know, it's X to earn and all of that, right?

If we launch meme coins and we use meme coins as a distribution channel to cultivate this cold labor to build real products.

Then do these meme coins then become the tech alts that you talked about, which is extremely overvalued.

A lot of them may be some usage because we actually saw examples of this.

I think Shiba tried to do like a layer 2 and then obviously memeland.

They're trying to do like social 5 products.

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The Blockcrunch Podcast - Why 2025 Is the Year of Memecoins - Murad Mahmudov