Discussion on the neural circuits and psychological underpinnings of emotions, as well as the relationship between emotions, motivation, consciousness, and affect.

Introduction - Introduction to the Huberman Lab Podcast and the guest, Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett.

Insights on regulating emotions effectively and interpreting the emotional states of others, as well as the relationship between emotional states and the movement of the body.

Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett's Work - Overview of Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett's work on the neuroscience and psychology of emotion, and her teaching style.

Information about 8Sleep and their smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.

Sponsorship Message - 8Sleep - Information about 8Sleep and their smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.

Information about Levels program for monitoring the impact of different foods and behaviors on blood glucose levels using a continuous glucose monitor.

Sponsorship Message - Levels - Information about Levels program for monitoring the impact of different foods and behaviors on blood glucose levels using a continuous glucose monitor.

In-depth conversation with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett on the nature of emotions, facial expressions, and the scientific literature on universal facial expressions.

Discussion with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett - In-depth conversation with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett on the nature of emotions, facial expressions, and the scientific literature on universal facial expressions.

Exploring the variability and complexity of emotions, challenging the idea of universal expressions.

The Complexity of Emotions - Exploring the variability and complexity of emotions, challenging the idea of universal expressions.

Discussing the variability of facial expressions across different cultures and the influence of cultural norms on emotional expressions.

Cultural Variations in Facial Expressions - Discussing the variability of facial expressions across different cultures and the influence of cultural norms on emotional expressions.

Exploring how infants learn to recognize and respond to facial expressions, and the role of cultural inheritance in early learning.

Infant Learning and Social Cues - Exploring how infants learn to recognize and respond to facial expressions, and the role of cultural inheritance in early learning.

Examining the influence of cultural practices and norms on emotional expressions, and the challenges of interpreting facial movements in remote cultures.

Cultural Impact on Emotional Expressions - Examining the influence of cultural practices and norms on emotional expressions, and the challenges of interpreting facial movements in remote cultures.

Discussing the role of cultural inheritance in brain wiring and the impact of early learning on facial recognition and emotional responses.

Wiring of the Brain and Cultural Inheritance - Discussing the role of cultural inheritance in brain wiring and the impact of early learning on facial recognition and emotional responses.

Exploring the limitations of language in capturing complex emotional states and the role of cultural variations in emotional labeling.

Language and Emotional States - Exploring the limitations of language in capturing complex emotional states and the role of cultural variations in emotional labeling.

The brain's attempt to reduce uncertainty and the metabolic unsustainability of constant uncertainty.

Reducing Uncertainty - The brain's attempt to reduce uncertainty and the metabolic unsustainability of constant uncertainty.

The importance of context and the dynamic nature of signals in the brain's decision-making process.

Context and Decision Making - The importance of context and the dynamic nature of signals in the brain's decision-making process.

The brain as a signal processor and the compression gradient in the architecture of neurons.

Signal Processing in the Brain - The brain as a signal processor and the compression gradient in the architecture of neurons.

The brain's construction of categories at different scales of generalizability and the process of making guesses based on compressed features.

Emotion and Categories - The brain's construction of categories at different scales of generalizability and the process of making guesses based on compressed features.

The expansion and contraction of complexity in human responses, and the reduction of complexity in authoritarian thinking.

Complexity of Responses - The expansion and contraction of complexity in human responses, and the reduction of complexity in authoritarian thinking.

The brain's planning of motor actions and the derivation of the experience of the world from motor plans.

Motor Plans and Experience - The brain's planning of motor actions and the derivation of the experience of the world from motor plans.

Exploring the efficiency of language in conveying detailed information using minimal words.

The Power of Words - Exploring the efficiency of language in conveying detailed information using minimal words.

Discussing how words represent low-dimensional features and stand in for detailed sensory and motor features.

The Nature of Words - Discussing how words represent low-dimensional features and stand in for detailed sensory and motor features.

Using the example of pizza to illustrate how words efficiently communicate detailed features.

The Pizza Analogy - Using the example of pizza to illustrate how words efficiently communicate detailed features.

Engaging in a lighthearted debate about different styles of pizza and their representation through words.

Debate on Pizza Styles - Engaging in a lighthearted debate about different styles of pizza and their representation through words.

Exploring how babies learn abstract categories through words and sensory motor features.

Abstract Categories and Learning - Exploring how babies learn abstract categories through words and sensory motor features.

Linking the understanding of emotions to the concept of movement and its influence on emotions.

Emotions and Movement - Linking the understanding of emotions to the concept of movement and its influence on emotions.

Explaining the brain's predictive system and its influence on sensations and emotions.

The Brain's Predictive System - Explaining the brain's predictive system and its influence on sensations and emotions.

Discussing the concept of efferent copies and sensory predictions in the brain's experience and sensation.

Efferent Copies and Sensory Predictions - Discussing the concept of efferent copies and sensory predictions in the brain's experience and sensation.

Exploring the brain's preparation of actions and the resulting sensations from those actions.

Understanding Sensory Predictions - Exploring the brain's preparation of actions and the resulting sensations from those actions.

Describing everyday experience as a controlled hallucination and its limitations.

Controlled Hallucination - Describing everyday experience as a controlled hallucination and its limitations.

Discussing the dynamic nature of neural systems and the challenges in studying them.

Dynamical Neural Systems - Discussing the dynamic nature of neural systems and the challenges in studying them.

Exploring conflicting perspectives on experiencing and managing emotions in psychology and mental health.

Understanding Emotions - Exploring conflicting perspectives on experiencing and managing emotions in psychology and mental health.

Emphasizing the importance of flexibility in processing emotions based on individual goals and situations.

Flexibility in Emotion Processing - Emphasizing the importance of flexibility in processing emotions based on individual goals and situations.

Distinguishing between affect as a summary of physical sensations and emotions as a story created by the brain.

Affect and Emotion Distinction - Distinguishing between affect as a summary of physical sensations and emotions as a story created by the brain.

Exploring the significance of giving meaning to affective feelings and the control over emotional responses.

Meaning of Affective Feelings - Exploring the significance of giving meaning to affective feelings and the control over emotional responses.

Discussing the importance of knowledge and its application in shifting attention and perception, using the example of learning to paint.

The Power of Knowledge - Discussing the importance of knowledge and its application in shifting attention and perception, using the example of learning to paint.

Exploring the work of Oliver Sacks and his approach to understanding the experiences of others, emphasizing the importance of sensory experience and empathy.

Expanding Perception and Empathy - Exploring the work of Oliver Sacks and his approach to understanding the experiences of others, emphasizing the importance of sensory experience and empathy.

Delving into the concept of affect, its connection to the body's metabolic state, and its impact on emotions, as well as the importance of sleep, movement, and nutrition in regulating affect.

Understanding Affect and Emotions - Delving into the concept of affect, its connection to the body's metabolic state, and its impact on emotions, as well as the importance of sleep, movement, and nutrition in regulating affect.

Explaining the brain's role in regulating the body's systems, the impact of affect on the body budget, and the connection between affect and metabolic illness, with a focus on sleep as the foundation of mental and physical health.

The Brain's Budgeting System - Explaining the brain's role in regulating the body's systems, the impact of affect on the body budget, and the connection between affect and metabolic illness, with a focus on sleep as the foundation of mental and physical health.

Highlighting the significance of social connections in regulating each other's nervous systems, and the impact of human interactions on emotional resonance and well-being.

The Role of Social Connection - Highlighting the significance of social connections in regulating each other's nervous systems, and the impact of human interactions on emotional resonance and well-being.

Discussion on the synchronization of physical signals and the reciprocity and trust between individuals.

Synchrony and Trust - Discussion on the synchronization of physical signals and the reciprocity and trust between individuals.

Insight into the behavior of narcissists and the impact of their interactions on healthy individuals.

Narcissism and Interactions - Insight into the behavior of narcissists and the impact of their interactions on healthy individuals.

The importance of trust in team dynamics and its impact on performance in the workplace.

Trust and Performance - The importance of trust in team dynamics and its impact on performance in the workplace.

The positive effects of kindness and reciprocity on body budgeting and personal relationships.

Kindness and Reciprocity - The positive effects of kindness and reciprocity on body budgeting and personal relationships.

A discussion on the psychology and neuroscience of emotions with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett.

Emotions and Neuroscience - A discussion on the psychology and neuroscience of emotions with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett.

# The Huberman Lab Podcast: Understanding Emotions with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. In today's episode, I am joined by Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett, a distinguished professor of psychology at Northeastern University, Harvard Medical School, and Massachusetts General Hospital. Dr. Barrett is considered one of the top world experts in the study of emotions.

## Exploring the Neural Circuits and Psychological Underpinnings of Emotions

In this enlightening discussion, Dr. Barrett shares her extensive knowledge on emotions, shedding light on the neural circuits and psychological underpinnings that shape our emotional experiences. Here's what you can expect to learn:

- The true nature of emotions and how they manifest in our brains and bodies
- How to interpret different emotional states and understand their significance
- The relationship between emotions, motivation, consciousness, and affect
- Practical techniques for effectively regulating our emotions
- Gaining insight into the emotional states of others
- The powerful connection between our emotional states and body movements

Dr. Barrett's expertise in both neuroscience and psychology allows her to provide clear and actionable information that will enhance your understanding of emotions and how they impact our daily lives.

## Dr. Barrett's Work: Books and Lectures

Dr. Barrett's work has had a profound impact on the field of emotion research. Her academic papers, public lectures, and two highly acclaimed books, "How Emotions Are Made" and "7 and a Half Lessons about the Brain," have provided invaluable insights into the mechanisms underlying emotions.

## Free Access to Science and Science-Related Tools

At the Huberman Lab Podcast, we are committed to providing free access to science and science-related tools for the general public. We believe in the importance of sharing knowledge and empowering individuals with information that can improve their lives.

## Sponsored by 8Sleep and Levels

We would like to thank our sponsors for supporting this podcast and making it possible to bring you this valuable content:

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## The Complexity of Emotions and Cultural Influences

Dr. Barrett emphasizes the complexity of emotions and how they vary across different cultures. Here are some key takeaways:

- Emotions can change and vary between individuals and throughout one's lifetime.
- Different cultures may have unique concepts and categories for emotions, reflecting their specific experiences and values.
- Language plays a crucial role in how we understand and communicate emotions, but it has limitations in capturing the full complexity of emotional experiences.
- Words serve as low-dimensional representations of the rich sensory and motor features associated with emotions.
- Understanding emotions involves recognizing patterns of sensory and motor features that are similar to each other.
- Babies as young as three months old can use words to learn abstract categories and understand the common features shared by different instances of an emotion.
- Emotions are not solely experienced in the body; they are constructed by the brain based on sensory signals and predictions.

## Putting Knowledge into Action

Dr. Barrett emphasizes the importance of putting knowledge into action when it comes to understanding and regulating our emotions. Here are some actionable steps:

- Focus on expanding your emotional vocabulary and learning new words for different emotional states.
- Recognize that emotions have dimensionality and can be experienced in various ways.
- Use attention-shifting techniques to change the dimensionality of your emotional experiences.
- Pay attention to bodily sensations and use them as cues to understand your emotional state.
- Prioritize sleep, exercise, and a healthy diet to support your body's regulation of emotions.
- Cultivate social connections and surround yourself with people who positively impact your emotional well-being.

## Conclusion

By the end of this episode, you will have a deep understanding of emotions, their origins in the brain and body, and practical tools to navigate and regulate your own emotional states. Don't miss out on this opportunity to gain valuable insights from Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett.

Please note that the Huberman Lab Podcast is separate from Andrew Huberman's teaching and research roles at Stanford University. The podcast aims to provide free access to science and science-related tools to the general public.

Stay tuned for the full episode with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett, where we delve into the fascinating world of emotions.

---

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We would like to thank our sponsors, 8Sleep and Levels, for their support. Visit [eightsleep.com/Huberman](eightsleep.com/Huberman) to save up to $150 off 8Sleep's smart mattress covers and [levels.link/Huberman](levels.link/Huberman) to get two free months of Levels' continuous glucose monitoring program.

**Connect with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett**

Follow Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett on social media for more insights and updates. She can be found on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and threads under the username Huberman Lab.

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**Thank You for Your Interest in Science**

We appreciate your curiosity and interest in science. Stay tuned for more exciting episodes of the Huberman Lab Podcast.

"Unlocking the Science of Emotions: Insights and Tools for a Happier Life"

The chief scientific officer of a hospital

The psychological underpinnings of emotions

How to interpret different emotional states

The relationship between emotional states and movement

A term that refers to the brain and body state that influences emotions

A term that refers to the conscious experience of emotions

A term that refers to the motivation to experience certain emotions

A term that refers to the regulation of emotions

To discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life

To provide free information about science and science-related tools

Whether emotions are specific to certain physical markers

Whether emotions are universal across cultures

Whether emotions are solely based on facial expressions

Whether emotions are influenced by body posture

Facial movements are not always expressions of internal states

Facial expressions are not universal across cultures

Facial expressions are not influenced by physiological changes

Facial expressions are not related to emotional meaning

They are interpretations of the movements

They are universal expressions of emotions

They are specific to certain emotional states

They are coordinated responses to physiological changes

In the context of other signals and sensory information

Based on specific patterns of facial muscle movements

By directly influencing the emotion system

There is constant conversation and feedback between the brain and the body

Facial expressions directly trigger changes in the emotion system

Facial expressions are controlled by a separate facial expression system

Facial expressions are influenced by internal emotional states

They are acoustically specific to different emotional states

They are interpreted differently based on cultural context

They are universally recognized as expressions of sadness

They are influenced by physiological changes in the body

Facial expressions are coordinated with specific emotional states.

Facial expressions have no relation to emotional states.

Facial expressions are random and unpredictable.

Facial expressions vary across cultures and situations.

Facial expressions of emotion are universal.

Facial expressions of emotion are highly variable.

Facial expressions of emotion are culturally dependent.

Facial expressions of emotion are not related to specific emotional states.

To determine the accuracy of facial expressions in reading mental states.

To prove that facial expressions are culturally dependent.

To challenge the Western stereotypes of facial expressions.

To investigate the relationship between facial expressions and emotions.

The science overwhelmingly supports the existence of universal expressions.

Scientists are hesitant to use the words 'truth' and 'fact'.

The speaker's husband can accurately guess the speaker's emotions based on facial movements.

There is no scientific evidence to support the existence of universal expressions.

Through language and verbal communication.

By relying on their own intuition and instincts.

By observing their own facial movements and actions.

Through scientific research and psychological testing.

There are universal templates for emotions that can be observed in all cultures.

There are some universal templates for emotions, but they are not as prevalent as assumed.

There are no universal templates for emotions, and assuming so is incorrect.

There might be universal templates for emotions, but more research is needed to confirm.

We can accurately understand other people's feelings most of the time.

We can accurately understand other people's feelings some of the time.

We rarely understand other people's feelings, including our own.

We have a complete understanding of other people's feelings.

Yes, language is sufficient to capture the complexity of emotions.

No, language alone is not sufficient to capture the complexity of emotions.

Language can capture the complexity of emotions to some extent.

Language is unnecessary for understanding emotions.

To cultivate novelty and seek interesting situations

To narrow down possibilities and make planning possible

To deal with unbelievable amounts of uncertainty

Creating categories and narrowing down possibilities

Seeking novelty and interesting situations

Dealing with unbelievable amounts of uncertainty

It waits for a second sound to make a decision

By searching for a specific match from the past

By using sensory motor patterns as features of equivalence

By constructing categories based on threat or reward

By guessing based on selection mechanisms

The process of creating emotional states and labeling them

The process of creating categories of possible futures

The process of creating broad bins for emotions

The process of compressing information in the brain

The level of sensory motor patterns associated with the emotion

The level of novelty and interesting situations

Expanding the number of different responses

Maintaining the current number of responses

Reducing the number of different responses further

Ignoring the need for different responses

To stand in for detailed sensory motor features

Efficiently convey a large number of sensory motor features

Point to a set of features that are similar to each other

Categorize sensory information more precisely

Diminishing the features of experience derived from the inside world

The brain's modeling of the state of the body

The brain's ability to control the movements of the body

The brain's ability to regulate the systems inside the body

Simple physical feelings related to the state of the body

Complex emotional feelings related to the state of the body

Depression is like a bankrupt body budget

Depression is caused by a lack of positive anticipation

Depression is a result of metabolic deficits

Depression is a lack of awareness of the body

They are just electrical activity in somebody's head.

They may deplete the neural systems that enhance mood.

They have no long-term effects on the brain.

They improve overall brain function over time.

They are ineffective in treating depression.

Sleep, exercise, food, sunlight, and social connection

Sleep, meditation, supplements, nature, and hobbies

Sleep, therapy, medication, technology, and work-life balance

Sleep, relaxation, diet, mindfulness, and self-care

- The Huberman Lab Podcast features a discussion with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett, an expert in the study of emotions.
- The podcast explores the neural circuits and psychological aspects of emotions.
- Dr. Feldman Barrett teaches listeners how to regulate emotions and interpret the emotional states of others.
- The discussion also highlights the relationship between emotions and body movement.
- The podcast aims to provide free scientific information to the general public.

- Scientists have been unable to find physical markers that correspond with distinct emotional states
- The idea that facial expressions can directly influence emotions is a myth
- Facial movements are not always expressions of internal states
- The brain interprets facial movements in the context of other signals and makes inferences about emotional meaning
- The brain and body have constant feedback and communication, but it is not specific to facial expressions
- Smiling or changing body posture alone cannot change emotions
- The idea that certain facial expressions or body postures are universally associated with specific emotions is not supported by research

- The classic literature on facial expressions and emotions is seen as Western stereotypes enshrined as scientific fact.
- There has been a debate in psychology for 50 years about the universality of facial expressions and their correspondence to specific emotional states.
- A group of senior scientists conducted a study and concluded that there is no evidence for universal facial expressions of emotion.
- Facial expressions vary across cultures and situations, and there is low reliability in the correspondence between specific facial expressions and emotions.

- The correspondence between a scowl and anger is not very reliable and highly variable depending on the situation.
- Half of the scowls people make are not related to anger, so seeing someone scowling does not necessarily mean they are angry.
- Emotions like anger are not singular entities, but rather a category of things with varying instances.
- Outside of Western cultures, there is less understanding and recognition of facial expressions as related to emotions.
- Recognition of faces and facial expressions is hardwired but also influenced by cultural inheritance and learning.
- The belief that facial expressions can accurately reflect mental states is a serious issue, as it can lead to wrongful judgments and impact people's lives.

- The speaker disagrees with the idea that there are universal expressions to read emotions
- They believe that facial movements can be tells for individuals, but not universally
- Language is not sufficient to capture the complexity of emotions
- Different cultures have different emotional labels and concepts
- The speaker gives examples of emotion words from different languages
- The assumptions behind a question are important to consider when discussing emotions and language

- The speaker challenges the assumption that language is sufficient for labeling or gauging emotional states.
- They argue that psychologists and neuroscientists often start with common sense experiences and then look for the physical basis in the brain, which may not be accurate for everyone.
- The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding the nervous system and anatomy in order to study emotions.
- They suggest that the brain only knows signals from the sensory surfaces of the body and has to guess at the causes of those signals in order to stay alive.
- The brain constructs categories of possible futures and motor plans based on past experiences.

- The Huberman Lab Podcast features Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett discussing emotions, neural circuits, and psychology.
- Dr. Feldman Barrett teaches how to regulate emotions and interpret others' emotional states.
- Facial expressions do not directly influence emotions, and there are no universally associated expressions.
- Recognition of facial expressions varies across cultures and situations.
- Language is insufficient for capturing the complexity of emotions.
- The brain constructs categories and motor plans based on past experiences to reduce uncertainty.
- Context, time, and cues play a role in decision-making and information processing in the brain.

In this episode, my guest is Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett, Ph.D., a Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Northeastern University who is a world expert in the science of emotions. She explains what emotions are and how the brain represents and integrates signals from our body and the environment around us to create our unique emotional states. We discuss the relationship between emotions and language, how our specificity of language impacts our emotional processing, the role of facial expressions in emotions, and how emotions relate to sleep, movement, nutrition and the building and reinforcement of social bonds. We also discuss actionable tools for how to regulate feelings of uncertainty and tools to better understand the emotional states of others. This episode ought to be of interest to anyone curious about the neuroscience and psychology underlying emotions and for those who seek to better understand themselves and relate to others and the world in richer, more adaptive ways.
For show notes, including referenced articles and additional resources, please visit hubermanlab.com.
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Timestamps
(00:00:00) Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett
(00:03:01) Sponsors: Eight Sleep & Levels
(00:05:46) Core Components of Emotions
(00:10:42) Facial Movement & Interpretation, Emotion
(00:19:33) Facial Expressions & Emotion, Individualization
(00:31:03) Emotion Categories, Culture & Child Development
(00:36:53) Sponsor: AG1
(00:37:50) Legal System, ‘Universal’ Emotions & Caution
(00:41:07) Language Descriptions, Differences & Emotion
(00:48:18) Questions & Assumptions; Language, Emotions & Nervous System
(00:53:40) Brain, Uncertainty & Categories
(01:02:51) Sponsor: InsideTracker
(01:03:57) Brain & Summaries; Emotions as “Multimodal Summaries”
(01:14:45) Emotional Granularity, Library Analogy
(01:19:40) Brain & Compression, Planning
(01:29:04) Labels & Generalization
(01:34:29) Movement, Sensation, Prediction & Learning
(01:42:44) Feelings of Discomfort & Action
(01:50:32) Tool: Feelings of Uncertainty, Emotion, “Affect”
(02:01:18) Tool: Experience Dimensions & Attention; Individualization
(02:08:36) Affect, Allostasis & Body Budget Analogy
(02:15:41) Depression, “Emotional Flu”
(02:20:20) Tool: Positively Shift Affect; Alcohol & Drugs; SSRIs
(02:27:40) Relationships: Savings or Taxes, Kindness
(02:36:50) Zero-Cost Support, Spotify & Apple Reviews, Sponsors, YouTube Feedback, Momentous, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter
Title Card Photo Credit: Mike Blabac
Disclaimer

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Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett: How to Understand Emotions