- Tim Ferriss welcomes back Morgan Housel, author of "The Psychology of Money" and partner at the Collaborative Fund.
- Housel's new book, "Same as Ever: A Guide to What Never Changes," explores the idea of focusing on things that remain constant rather than trying to predict what will change.
- Housel shares a story about Warren Buffett and how he focuses on what doesn't change to make successful investments.
- Housel believes that people's ability to predict the future is poor, but by understanding human behavior that remains consistent, we can have a better understanding of the future.
- Housel's book explores the psychology of collective behavior and the patterns that repeat throughout history.
- The conversation touches on the nature of writing and the importance of writing about ideas that one is passionate about.

- The speaker didn't initially plan to write a book, but felt compelled to do so during the early days of COVID.
- They found relief from anxiety by focusing on what they can control and accepting uncertainty.
- The speaker writes first drafts in a "shitty" way and then goes back to edit and refine.
- They often come up with ideas by starting with a headline and then building from there.
- The speaker believes that every dollar earned comes with social debt, and being rich and anonymous is an ideal position.
- They mention a family worth $8 billion who have managed to remain anonymous, which has contributed to their happiness and balance.

- The video discusses the decisions made by a wealthy family to ensure their children are not spoiled or entitled.
- The family made their money ethically and intentionally remained anonymous.
- The key decision they made was to give their children less money, allowing them to learn independence and the value of hard work.
- The video also mentions the importance of not treating children differently based on their wealth or status.
- The speaker shares a personal anecdote about his own experience with entrepreneurs treating him differently when they wanted something from him.
- The video emphasizes the need to raise children who are self-aware and less entitled, regardless of their economic background.
- The speaker suggests that giving children less money, not just in inheritance but also in terms of ongoing financial support, is the best way to achieve this.

- The speaker discusses the idea from the book "Die With 0" about giving money to children when they need it in their 30s and 40s, rather than waiting until death.
- They share their own experience of starting to give money away and finding it difficult to make a big difference and choose the right causes.
- The speaker prefers micro philanthropy, giving money directly to individuals in need, but acknowledges the challenges of receiving feedback or gratitude.
- They discuss the difficulty of giving away large sums of money and highlight examples of wealthy individuals whose personalities changed with wealth.
- The speaker suggests that gaining more money may make happy people happier, but may not significantly help those who are already depressed.
- They mention that money amplifies who a person already is, and cite examples of individuals whose personalities changed with wealth.
- The speaker concludes that coming into a large amount of money would likely change a person, and questions whether they would remain the same.

- The speaker reflects on how people with money behave differently when they no longer need to be nice
- Having "fuck you money" reveals a person's true personality
- Money can buy contentment but not happiness
- Comedians are practical philosophers who understand human behavior
- The speaker shares a personal experience with avalanches, where two friends died
- The experience taught the speaker about the fragility of life and the importance of small decisions
- Risk is what remains when everything else has been considered.

- The speaker discusses the concept of risk and how it is often overlooked in decision-making.
- They explore the importance of asking questions and being open to different perspectives and experiences.
- The speaker reflects on personal experiences and contemplates alternative paths that could have been taken.
- They emphasize the role of chance and unpredictability in shaping outcomes.
- The speaker discusses the value of contemplating different scenarios and expanding one's perspective.
- They touch on the topic of incentives and how they can influence views and behavior.
- The speaker shares an example from a book on Nazi Germany to highlight the impact of incentives on people's support for Hitler.

- The German economy in the 1920s and 1930s was worse than the Great Depression in the United States, leading to the rise of Hitler who promised jobs and prosperity.
- El Chapo, a ruthless drug lord, was supported by local communities in Mexico because he provided homes, healthcare, food, and jobs.
- Society's support for Hitler and El Chapo can be explained by the incentives they offered to people who had nothing.
- The most valuable personal finance asset is not needing to impress others, as respect and admiration can be gained through wisdom, intelligence, humor, love, and empathy.
- Many people have a desire to impress others, which is their biggest financial liability.
- People should realize that others are not paying as much attention to them as they think and focus on gaining respect and admiration from a few important people in their lives.
- The decision to marry is largely based on luck, but it is important to prioritize being best friends with your partner rather than focusing on superficial qualities like looks or wealth.
- Relationships can be maintained if one person is willing to compromise and make it work, even if there are times when one or both individuals want to leave.
- The author's major life goals are to stay married, maintain a healthy body, and be there for their children.

- Morgan Housel, author of "The Psychology of Money," discusses his new book "Same as Ever: A Guide to What Never Changes" with Tim Ferriss.
- The book explores the idea of focusing on constants instead of trying to predict change.
- Housel shares a story about Warren Buffett's successful investment strategy based on what doesn't change.
- Housel believes that understanding consistent human behavior can lead to a better understanding of the future.
- The book delves into the psychology of collective behavior and historical patterns.
- Housel emphasizes the importance of writing about passionate ideas and shares his writing process.
- They discuss finding relief from anxiety by focusing on what can be controlled and accepting uncertainty.
- Housel believes that every dollar earned comes with social debt and discusses the benefits of being rich and anonymous.
- The video explores decisions made by a wealthy family to prevent their children from becoming spoiled or entitled.
- The speaker suggests giving children less money to promote independence and the value of hard work.
- Raising self-aware and less entitled children is important regardless of economic background.
- The speaker discusses the challenges of giving away money and prefers micro philanthropy.
- They reflect on how money can change a person's personality and happiness.
- The speaker reflects on personal experiences, the fragility of life, and the importance of small decisions.
- Risk is discussed as an often overlooked factor in decision-making.
- The speaker emphasizes the value of asking questions, considering different perspectives, and contemplating alternative paths.
- Incentives and their impact on behavior are explored, using examples from Nazi Germany and El Chapo.
- The most valuable personal finance asset is not needing to impress others.
- The decision to marry is based on luck, but prioritizing friendship is important.
- The author's major life goals are to stay married, maintain a healthy body, and be there for their children.

- The speaker discusses the importance of serving one's spouse without expecting anything in return.
- They mention that achieving success often comes with unavoidable costs and sacrifices.
- The speaker gives examples of successful individuals who have sacrificed personal relationships for their careers.
- They discuss the downsides of fame and the negative effects of envy.
- The speaker reflects on their own experiences and the lessons they have learned.
- They mention the need to be cautious when sharing successes with others.
- The speaker contemplates the future of their podcast and the need to compete in the podcasting industry.

- The speaker discusses the risks of video fame and the potential dangers of stalkers and threats that come with it.
- They reflect on how social media and platforms like YouTube can influence young people's mindset and ambitions.
- The speaker emphasizes the importance of sustainability in various aspects of life, such as careers, relationships, and investing.
- They share their experience with adopting new technologies and the challenges that arise when a field becomes more popular and competitive.
- The speaker acknowledges the increasing difficulty and challenges in the podcasting industry due to platform competition and changing dynamics.

- The speaker discusses the challenges of adapting to new strategies and trends in angel investing.
- They observe that the shelf life of their previous strategies is around 5 to 10 years and they need to be open to new opportunities for the next chapter.
- The speaker questions the future of text and mentions the success of audio books and podcasts.
- They believe that reading is hard for most people and that listening is more popular due to its ease and single-tasking nature.
- The speaker started a podcast with minimal effort and it has already surpassed the popularity of their blog.
- They acknowledge that writing and speaking are different skills and not everyone can excel at both.
- The speaker advises content creators to focus on one medium rather than trying to do everything.
- They mention the value difference between reading a blog post and listening to a podcast episode, stating that they are not the same audience.
- The speaker prefers reading and believes it is easier to absorb information through text.
- They express their commitment to being a writer even if their podcast becomes successful.
- The speaker reflects on the unexpected success of their podcast and its impact on their career.
- They credit their book "The 4-Hour Workweek" as the most important and successful piece of their career.
- The speaker is surprised by the continued popularity of their book despite outdated tools and references.
- They express satisfaction that the core principles of the book are timeless.

- The speaker believes that updating tools is a losing game and mentions how new tools have made him revise his work.
- The podcast is mentioned as being more popular than books, but the speaker believes that podcasts have a higher decay rate and are easily forgotten due to the vast amount of content available.
- The speaker speculates that books have a more enduring impact because they are a finite and focused experience, while podcasts are more passive and easily consumed alongside other activities.
- The speaker discusses the importance of taking action after reading a book and how it creates a deeper connection with the material.
- The speaker then talks about the book "Working" by Robert Caro, praising Caro's thoroughness and ability to uncover new information.
- The speaker mentions that Caro's interviewing technique of asking "tell me more" resonates with him. An example is given of Caro persistently asking a chauffeur about Lyndon Johnson's behavior in the car until an interesting detail is revealed.

- The Triangle Fire was a tragic fire that occurred in a garment factory in New York City in 1911, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of workers.
- The fire led to a moral panic and sparked worker rights movements in the United States, leading to new laws and protections for workers.
- The book "No Ordinary Day" by Doris Kearns Goodwin is recommended and explores the lives of FDR and Eleanor during World War II.
- The book delves into the pressure and stress FDR faced during the war and his coping mechanisms, such as having a daily gathering with friends to discuss non-political topics.
- "The Strange Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst" is a book about a boat race in 1968, where an amateur sailor named Donald Crowhurst attempted to sail around the world solo.
- Crowhurst faked his progress in the race and spent months aimlessly drifting in the Atlantic Ocean, eventually realizing that his fraud would be exposed if he won the race.

- The piece discusses the story of a man who deceived others for six months and ultimately took his own life when his fraud was exposed.
- It highlights the obsession with gaining respect and admiration from others and the extreme lengths some people will go to achieve it.
- The video also mentions a book called "The Tao of Charlie Munger" which distills the wisdom of Charlie Munger, a highly quoted individual known for his succinctness.
- The conversation touches on Munger's lack of concern for others' opinions and how it can lead to egotism and a limited perspective.
- The author reflects on how his writing has influenced his decision-making and emphasizes the importance of viewing life from a broad perspective.
- The book is described as being written for the author himself, addressing questions and topics that interest him, with the hope that others will find it interesting as well.
- The goal of the book is to encourage introspection and provide a sense of equanimity when faced with unanswered questions and confusing topics.

The speaker discusses the importance of serving one's spouse without expecting anything in return and the sacrifices that come with success. They reflect on the downsides of fame and envy, as well as the risks of video fame. The speaker emphasizes the importance of sustainability in various aspects of life and discusses the challenges of adapting to new trends in podcasting and angel investing. They question the future of text and believe that podcasts have a higher decay rate compared to books. The speaker also mentions the importance of taking action after reading a book and recommends several books, including "Working" by Robert Caro and "No Ordinary Day" by Doris Kearns Goodwin. They discuss the story of Donald Crowhurst and the obsession with gaining respect from others. The video also mentions "The Tao of Charlie Munger" and emphasizes the importance of viewing life from a broad perspective. The goal of the book is to encourage introspection and provide equanimity in the face of unanswered questions.

- The speaker compliments the interviewer for asking unique and thought-provoking questions
- The speaker provides their website, Twitter, and Instagram handles
- The speaker mentions their book and where it can be found
- The speaker thanks the interviewer for their time
- The episode with the speaker can be found by searching their name on the podcast website
- The speaker ends with a reminder to be kind to others and oneself

- The speaker appreciates the interviewer's unique questions
- The speaker shares their website and social media handles
- The speaker mentions their book and where to find it
- The speaker thanks the interviewer for their time
- The episode with the speaker can be found by searching their name on the podcast website
- The speaker reminds listeners to be kind to others and themselves.

Brought to you by:
Cometeer delicious hyper-fresh, flash-frozen coffee: https://cometeer.com/tim 
Momentous high-quality supplements: https://livemomentous.com/tim
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Morgan's new book: https://www.amazon.com/Same-Ever-Guide-Never-Changes/dp/0593332709/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20 

Resources from this episode: https://tim.blog/2023/10/31/morgan-housel/ 

Morgan Housel (@morganhousel) is a partner at The Collaborative Fund. His book The Psychology of Money has sold more than three million copies and has been translated into 53 languages. 

He is a two-time winner of the Best in Business Award from the Society of American Business Editors and Writers and winner of the New York Times Sidney Award. In 2022, MarketWatch named him one of the 50 most influential people in markets. He serves on the board of directors at Markel. 

Morgan’s new book is Same As Ever: A Guide to What Never Changes. You can find my first, widely popular interview with Morgan at https://tim.blog/morganhousel. 

Please enjoy!

00:00 Intro
01:29 Buffett's Snickers.
06:38 What prompted Morgan to write Same As Ever?
12:14 Morgan's worst advice for aspiring writers is what works for him.
16:24 The upsides of being rich and anonymous.
19:56 Tips for raising unspoiled kids.
28:22 Should families avoid passing along dynastic wealth?
30:54 Finding worthy charities and causes.
35:18 Money and happiness.
43:04 Avalanches and other random, life-changing flukes.
49:28 We can prepare for the future, but we can't predict it.
56:11 What current unknowns will seem shockingly obvious in a year?
58:38 Which of our current views would change if our incentives were different?
1:01:46 The most valuable personal finance asset.
1:04:26 Optimizing the chance of marrying the right person.
1:07:20 Mending divergence in a marriage or relationship.
1:10:40 Trying to eliminate a hassle that's an unavoidable cost of success.
1:30:19 Guessing at the future of text vs. audio/video.
1:34:56 Books vs. podcasts.
1:44:56 Recommended reading.
2:04:30 Has writing Same As Ever changed how Morgan operates in the world?
2:06:22 Who is the intended audience for Same As Ever?
2:08:32 Parting thoughts.

Tim Ferriss is one of Fast Company’s “Most Innovative Business People” and an early-stage tech investor/advisor in Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Shopify, Duolingo, Alibaba, and 50+ other companies. He is also the author of five #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers: The 4-Hour Workweek, The 4-Hour Body, The 4-Hour Chef, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors. The Observer and other media have named him “the Oprah of audio” due to the influence of his podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, which has exceeded 900 million downloads and been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three years running.

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Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show.

Today, we have a repeat guest and good Lord, did his last episode do well.

So back by popular demand is Morgan Housel.

You can find him on Twitter at Morgan Housell, H-O-U-S-E-L.

He is a partner at the Collaborative Fund.

His book, The Psychology of Money, which we really dug into in depth last time, has sold more than 3 million copies and has been translated into 53 languages.

Didn't even know there were that many languages.

He is a two-time winner of the Best in Business Award from the Society of American Business Editors and Writers and winner of the New York Times Sydney Award.

In 2022, MarketWatch named him 1 of the 50 most influential people in markets.

He serves on the board of directors at Markel.

Morgan's new book is same as ever, subtitle, A Guide to What Never Changes.

You can find my first, and as I mentioned before, widely popular interview and very tactically dense interview with Morgan at Tim.blogs.com slash morganhausel.

And without further ado, morganhausel.com and Morgan himself, nice to see you again.

So let's start with a cryptic prompt and I'll let you run with it, which is Buffett's Snickers.

So after Psychology of Money, I was really debating what to write next for my next book.

I had thrown around all these different topics and I had some good ideas but it really hadn't hit me what I wanted to write about.

And I was at a retreat with a group of investors about 3 years ago and 1 of the investors, he was actually a CEO of a large public company and he's pretty good friends with Warren Buffett.

And He told the story that I had never heard before about Buffett.

It's pretty rare to have a story about Buffett that I've never heard, that no one's ever heard.

Everybody knows every Buffett story, but this was a new 1.

The CEO said that in 2009, during the peak of the Great Recession, when the economy was in pieces, He was driving around Omaha with Warren Buffett.

And the CEO said to Warren, and they're driving past closed up shops during the Great Recession, like the whole country's in tatters.

And the CEO said, Warren, how are we ever going to pull out of this?

The country is never going to be the same after this.

And Warren said, let's call this guy Jim.

But he said, Jim, do you know what the best-selling candy bar was in 1962?

And Warren said, do you know what the best-selling candy bar is today?

And that was the end of the conversation.

And that was his answer to, is the country ever going to be the same?

And I think If you look at Warren Buffett's success, he has been betting on things that stay the same forever.

It really hit me in that moment that this was a book that I wanted to write because for my entire career as a writer, cynical is probably the right word, and just astounded at how bad people are at forecasting, not just in finance and the stock market and the economy, but in politics.

The most famous expert's ability to predict what's going to happen next is atrocious.

It was just like the whole pundit industry is a scam.

Then it was like, okay, is there a positive spin to this?

How can I use knowing how bad we are at forecasting to try to do better at my ability to look forward in the future?

And I think what I settled on is people are so bad at predicting the future because they're always trying to predict what's gonna change.

They're always trying to predict what's the next new technology, who's gonna win the next election, when's the next recession gonna come?

But for the people like Buffett who focus on what's not going to change, their ability to understand the future is actually pretty good.

And so they're focusing on parts of human behavior that have never changed, that were true 500 years ago that will be true 500 years from now.

And so I have no idea when the next recession is going to come, but I know exactly how people are going to respond to greed and fear because that's never changed.

There's a great quote from Naval where he says, if your life played out a thousand times, a thousand different iterations of your life, what would be true in 999 of them?

And those are the things that you want to focus on in life because those are not things that are guided by luck or chance or just the quirky ways of the world.

And it also occurred to me that a lot of what I had been writing about for the previous 15 years were things that never change.

I think in many ways, psychology of money is the psychology of you, the individual.

It's like what's going through your head.

And same as ever is the psychology of us as a collective.

It's just what do we keep doing as a society, as a group, over and over and over again?

1 other thing that really struck me here that was kind of influential to this book for me was 1 of my favorite books is a book called the Great Depression, a diary.

It's written by a lawyer named Benjamin Roth, who during the Great Depression kept a very detailed diary about what he saw all over his town in Ohio that his son published.

It's the best economics book ever written.

During that diary, There's 1 diary entry from I think 1932 where he says, what I see around the Great Depression in 1932, it reminds me exactly of what happened in 1920 and in 1878 and in 1865.

And he's like, it's the same forces happening over and over and over again.

I thought, oh, that's really interesting.

And then a couple pages later, it dawned on me that what he was writing in 1932 is exactly what happened in 2008.

The way that people were dealing with uncertainty and greed and fear, it never changes.

It's the same movie over and over and over again.

And so if you focus on those things that never change, I think it's our only ability to really understand the future, your future, society's future, the economy's future.

But it's just not as exciting as focusing on what is going to change.

Like all of the attention in the media focuses on what's the next big technology, what is going to change.

It's because that's exciting and it's fun.

So the premise of this book is like, let's stop doing that.

Let's focus on what we know with certainty is going to be a part of your future.

And that's the best that we can do to see the future.

I've been excited to have this conversation for a couple of reasons.

And I'll edge into those by way of maybe a few anecdotes.

So 1, I'm not gonna get the attribution right and I'm not gonna get the phrasing totally on point, but there was an announcement, I think it might've been Donald Knuth, K-N-U-T-H, but there's a blog post that I wrote some time ago which was looking for decisions that remove a thousand decisions.

And he made an announcement when he stopped using email.

Now, I'd be curious to know how well that's held up over time.

However, he said, in effect, I realize that I no longer want to stay on top of things, I want to get to the bottom of things.

So that phrasing that has really stuck with me, and maybe it will come back to stories, and his entire email was maybe a mini story, and had an arc, and that has stuck with me for years now.

The second is, in the last few weeks, I've become very interested in ancient Sumer and the dynasties of in Ur and Uruk in modern-day Iraq and looking at the birth of writing as we understand it in cuneiform, which I never knew was cuneiform instead of a different pronunciation.

In any case, the stories as you listen to them in these various podcasts, If you did a search and replace with a handful of names, this is true for letters from a Stoic or the moral letters to Lucilius as well from Seneca the Younger.

If you just did a search replace with some names, it's the same set of dynamics.

It's the same consequences of fear, greed, wrath, fill in the blank.

And my question for you is, given how much you've thought about writing, given how much you have written, I mean, you've written, I would imagine, hundreds, thousands of pieces.

And we spoke quite a bit about writing in our last conversation.

And the fact that writing is, on some level, or good writing, at least the type of writing that we do, is sort of intrinsically selfish, right?

We're writing for at least an audience of 1.

And that, I'm just gonna do a quick recap on some of the things that stuck with me from our last conversation, which have proven to be true again and again and again.

For instance, and please fact check me, but good writing is easy, bad writing is hard, right?

If you're just like struggling through, word by word, this slog of a piece, chances are it's just not gonna be good.

Also, if you have writer's block, there's a damn good chance it's just a shitty idea, or a mediocre idea that you're trying to force into some existence.

Of all the things that you could write about, how did you choose to do this, especially after the success of your last book?

I was told many years ago by Jason Zweig, a great friend and mentor of mine from the Wall Street Journal, that you should only write a book if in your brain you have to do it.

Not like, oh, I should do it or like, oh, that's a lot of money that I could get for doing it.

Only doing it if you're like, I can't sleep until I get these ideas on paper.

And even in blog form, for my entire career, that's always been the case.

I'm not a sit down at my desk at 9 o'clock and published by 4 o'clock kind of person.

I'm just going to toss around a bunch of ideas in my head, and I'm only going to sit down and write when I can't do anything else until I get this done.

The idea is so fresh and it's just spilling out of me.

There's been plenty of times when we'll be like grocery shopping with my wife and kids, and I'm basically just like, I need to go sit down at the computer and write this out.

The opposite of that, if I'm like, oh, I should probably write something this week.

And so I feel like I didn't necessarily choose to write this book.

I think I would have been really happy just stopping at psychology of money and saying, that's great.

I'm just gonna quit while I'm ahead, which is a general idea that I really admire.

But I think it got to the point where I was like, I really, I have to do this.

And it struck me around, it was kind of the early days of COVID when this really struck me.

I was writing almost every week, almost every day about things that never change and putting a lot of thought into it.

And it really became like a philosophy that guides my entire life.

I think to tell you the truth, it relieved a lot of anxiety from my life once I kind of internalized a lot of these ideas, anxiety about the future.

What's the economy going to do next during the early days of COVID?

Once you admit that we have no idea, we have no clue, we have no clue what's going to happen.

But that doesn't mean that you're giving up and just becoming a fatalist.

It's just like, let's shift our attention to what we know is going to be true.

And I honestly think I became happier and calmer and like my life improved once I got to that point.

So in a sense is that a serenity prayer applied to your life through the lens of human nature over time?

I mean in a sense I mean separating the things that you can change from the things that you cannot, the things that you can predict with some certainty versus the many things that you cannot, is that what reduced the anxiety?

And of course, this is not an idea I came up with.

It's like, what can you control and what can you not?

You really need to be able to figure out how to separate those.

So I'm not claiming at all that I came up with these ideas, but once it

But once I kind of crystallized them and I could contextualize that in a way that made a lot of sense to me, I honestly think it improved my life in a pretty profound way.

But since I am getting back into writing and I've been experimenting with fiction largely, but I'd like to actually write some non-fiction blog posts in the old style.

Back when there were blog rolls, I wanna really rewind the clock and go retro with some of my writing.

Because I do have some ideas that are so persistent that I feel like it would be beneficial for me to write in order to think about them more clearly.

And what we didn't cover in our last conversation was how you draft your first drafts or your rough drafts.

Because you have these ideas, you're at the grocery store, you're out on a walk, you're in the shower, whatever it might be.

What does it look like when you put first words on paper or screen?

Because that is where I often procrastinate, facing the empty screen, the blinking cursor.

I first need to disclose that what I'm about to say is probably the worst writing advice you could give someone.

So if you are a new writer or an aspiring writer, plug your ears and fast forward this.

But I've always been – Including the worst advice

I don't think it's a good strategy, but it's been my strategy.

I'm kind of a first draft and publish writer.

I think the best way to write is to write a shitty first draft, get it done, and then go back and edit and clean up and rewrite and whatnot.

I've always been 1 sentence at a time and when I'm done with that sentence, it's final.

So by the time I get to the bottom of the article or the bottom of a chapter, it's pretty much done.

But that's not because I can write a perfect first draft.

It's because I'm not going to leave this sentence that I'm writing until it's perfect.

I'm not going to move on to the next sentence until every word is perfect.

I believe Kurt Vonnegut talked about swoopers and plotters.

I may be getting the wording wrong, but swoopers are the vomit of first draft, refine, refine into a diamond.

And then the plotters are the line at a time, 1 small facet at a time, and then they're kind of done.

I tend to err on the side of being closer to that myself.

However, that doesn't seem to work unless you have a clear idea of what your structure's gonna look like, or at least of where you're gonna start, so that you're not then endlessly swapping things around or scrapping the first half, in which case you're edging more towards that refine, refine, refine.

So how do you figure out the structure of a piece or what your lead is going to be?

When I start an article or a chapter even, I have no idea where it's going to go.

It's not like all the ideas are in my head and I just need to put them out on paper.

And I feel like the process of writing is the research process for me.

And so that's kind of where the plotter style comes in, which is I write 1 sentence and I sit there and stare at it.

Oh, like That prompts another thought that I had.

That paragraph I just wrote reminds me of something else I can pull in.

So coming up with an idea, honestly I think most blog posts, I start with a headline.

And I'm like, I wanna write an article called, everything is cyclical, whatever it might be.

Like that idea, like, cause everything is cyclical.

And I'm sure I could put together a story about why that is and a couple examples of that.

So let's just start there and see what happens and I just start throwing things on the page and usually within the process of a blog post or a book chapter, I'll go for 3 walks around my neighborhood.

And during that walk, I'm 100% focused on what I'm writing and thinking about.

Oh, it actually reminds me of something else.

If I'm sitting at my desk, I really can't get my brain to work as well as it is when I'm getting up and walking around.

So very often too, if the weather's bad outside, in the middle of writing, I'll get up and fold the laundry or get up and do the dishes, get up and just walk around the house.

It's just like I think movement is really critical to forming new thoughts and moving the piece along, which is so critical when you don't know where it's going to go when you started writing it.

And I read 3 in prepping for this conversation.

Respect and admiration, rich and anonymous, and then expectations debt.

How did you decide to write rich and anonymous?

And maybe that's a way to move into discussing some of the content, some of the messages, some of the stories in that piece, but how did that come

Richard Anonymous came to be because, this was probably about 2 years ago, I did a consulting session with a group of NBA athletes, most of them were NBA rookies, And the topic of conversation was, everybody knows that NBA athletes, all pro athletes have a very high rate of going bankrupt.

They have a 3 to five-year career where they make tens of millions of dollars, they blow it all, and then they're done.

So the topic of conversation is how do we prevent that?

And 1 of the athletes who's 19 from the NBA, he had very recently been drafted to a deck a million dollar contract, massive amount of money.

He brought up this fact that I thought was so astute, particularly for a 19 year old.

And He said, when you grow up in inner city poverty and then you make tens of millions of dollars at age 19, that's not your money.

That is mom's money, dad's money, cousin's money, brother's money, neighbor's money, grandma's money.

You can't just tell all of them, I got my money, like good luck to you all back in inner city poverty.

And he said, the biggest reason that athletes go bankrupt is not because they bought themselves a mansion, it's because they bought their fifth cousin a modest house and they felt so much obligation to help them.

So that was this idea that I came up, I don't know if I came up with it, but I called it social debt.

And I think with every dollar that you earn comes some amount of social debt.

And for somebody like an athlete or a movie star, there's a ton of social, For every dollar that they earn, there's probably $4 of social debt that comes on top of it.

It's incredibly difficult to track your social debt.

It's this obscure figure, but it's always there.

Even if we're not talking about a million dollar athletes, I think for the average person who gets a raise, their salary goes from $50,000 to $55,000.

With that even comes an increase in expectations of now they expect to live in a bigger apartment, to wear nicer clothes, to eat out more.

Just their expectation increase that comes with that is a form of social debt that came with it.

I'm pretty sure that Naval came up with this phrasing too, that the best spot you want to be in in life is rich and anonymous.

The worst is poor and famous, which was maybe like Monica Lewinsky or something like very famous and no money.

I spent some time with a family 2 or 3 years ago.

And if you Google their name, nothing comes up.

And so this family is worth $8 billion and they have virtually no social debt.

Like they could just walk down the street.

And they've been very cognizant of doing that.

And when I see how happy they are and how well balanced they are, how well balanced their children were, it was like that's the spot that everyone wants to be in.

So even if you're not worth $8 billion like that, realizing that every dollar of net worth that you gain comes with probably at least a couple pennies of social debt, I think is a really important thing to think about and contemplate.

You would think that this family would be on many radars, many lists, whether they want to appear there or not.

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