- The CEO of Rewind AI, Dan Suroker, has released a device called the rewind pendant that records everything in the real world.
- The pendant aims to capture and index all experiences in a privacy-first way.
- Concerns are raised about privacy and the potential violation of trust, especially in conversations that are meant to be private or encrypted.
- Dan argues that the pendant can differentiate between speakers and only records when verbal consent is given.
- The discussion explores the balance between convenience and privacy in the age of personalized AI.

The speaker expresses concern about the idea of covertly recording conversations with friends, stating that if people found out, they would no longer be friends. They discuss the potential privacy concerns and risks associated with recording conversations. The speaker questions the need for recording conversations and expresses worry about how the recordings could be used against them in the future. They also discuss the market opportunity for a product like the rewind pendant and the importance of prioritizing privacy. The speaker challenges the idea that privacy and convenience are at odds with each other and emphasizes the need for a privacy-first approach in wearable AI technology. They explain that the product was rushed out due to competition in the market and discuss the use cases and situations where the product would be valuable. The speaker mentions discussing the idea with their spouse and receiving a positive response. They argue that perfect memory can improve communication and relationships.

- Perfect memory can improve communication and relationships by reducing misunderstandings and conflicts.
- A startup called Bill Tricks has developed an energy data platform that simplifies energy information and alerts customers about abnormal energy usage.
- Listeners of the podcast can apply to be featured in a new segment called "Pitch it to J cow" by visiting startups.tech/Jason and having a dot tech domain name.
- The speaker discusses the controversy surrounding Google Glass and the importance of considering privacy when developing wearable technology.
- The speaker introduces a device called Humane 1, which is larger than their own product and raises concerns about its purpose and potential impact on privacy.
- The speaker emphasizes the value of perfect memory in personal and professional settings, but acknowledges that not everyone may desire or benefit from it.
- There is a debate about the balance between the benefits of perfect memory and the potential negative consequences on privacy and social norms.

- The speaker believes it is important to strike a balance between the benefits of perfect memory and perfect vision and hearing while maintaining social norms and privacy.
- Squarespace is a platform that offers beautiful website templates, easy design features, built-in analytics, and the ability to create online stores and blogs.
- The speaker emphasizes the importance of continuous improvement in technology and mentions Tesla, iPhone, and Squarespace as examples.
- The speaker raises concerns about a device with cameras and sensors that can record covertly and suggests that it should have a certain size and a flashing light when recording.
- The speaker discusses the need to consider state laws and emphasizes the importance of high moral, social, and ethical standards when developing products.
- The speaker raises questions about the software's ability to record conversations on apps like Signal and suggests that it should be excluded by default for privacy reasons.
- The speaker appreciates the conversation and open dialogue with the company representative and offers feedback to improve their product.
- The speaker shares a personal anecdote about the importance of being mindful of what is said in recorded conversations to avoid negative consequences.
- The speaker wishes the company luck and appreciates their willingness to engage in the conversation.

- Rewind AI has released a device called the rewind pendant that records everything in the real world.
- The pendant aims to capture and index all experiences in a privacy-first way.
- Concerns are raised about privacy and the potential violation of trust.
- The CEO argues that the pendant only records when verbal consent is given.
- The discussion explores the balance between convenience and privacy in the age of personalized AI.
- Perfect memory can improve communication and relationships.
- Bill Tricks has developed an energy data platform.
- Listeners can apply to be featured in a new segment called "Pitch it to J cow" by visiting startups.tech/Jason.
- The controversy surrounding Google Glass and the importance of considering privacy when developing wearable technology is discussed.
- The speaker introduces a device called Humane 1 and raises concerns about its purpose and impact on privacy.
- The value of perfect memory in personal and professional settings is emphasized.
- There is a debate about the balance between the benefits of perfect memory and the potential negative consequences on privacy and social norms.
- Squarespace is a platform that offers website templates, easy design features, built-in analytics, and the ability to create online stores and blogs.
- The importance of continuous improvement in technology is emphasized.
- Concerns are raised about a device with covert recording capabilities and suggestions are made for its design.
- The need to consider state laws and high moral, social, and ethical standards when developing products is discussed.
- Questions are raised about the software's ability to record conversations on apps like Signal.
- Feedback is offered to improve the product.
- A personal anecdote is shared about the importance of being mindful of recorded conversations.
- The company representative is appreciated for engaging in the conversation.

(0:00) Jason kicks off the show
(1:08) Dan breaks down the Rewind Pendant
(8:05) Codecademy - Try Codecademy Pro FREE for 14 days at http://codecademy.com/TWiST
(9:32) Privacy and ethical concerns around covert recording
(20:42) .Tech Domains - Apply to get your startup featured on This Week in Startups at https://startups.tech/jason
(21:47) Comparisons to products like Google Glass and Humane 
(24:15) Design considerations and the best use cases for Rewind Pendant
(30:09) Squarespace - Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://Squarespace.com/twist
(31:32) The importance of thoughtful development of personal AI and the value of open feedback

Subscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple: https://rb.gy/v19fcp

Check out Rewind AI: https://www.rewind.ai/

FOLLOW Dan: https://twitter.com/dsiroker
FOLLOW Jason: https://linktr.ee/calacanis

Thanks to our partners:
(8:05) Codecademy - Try Codecademy Pro FREE for 14 days at http://codecademy.com/TWiST
(9:32) Privacy and ethical concerns around covert recording
(20:42) .Tech Domains - Apply to get your startup featured on This Week in Startups at https://startups.tech/jason
(30:09) Squarespace - Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://Squarespace.com/twist

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And I like you, don't get me wrong, but I think you're so misguided in this.

Because if we went and asked 100 people this question, I don't think you did this.

If you did, you would get 100 people who would be so infuriated.

It would be such a violation of trust, what you've described, that they would break up lifelong friendships over it.

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All right, everybody, welcome back to this week in startups.

Back in May with a really interesting founder.

He is the CEO and co founder of rewind AI.

You probably remember him because hey, this is a really clever idea.

What is rewind AI do recorded everything on your screen in a given period of time, then it creates a searchable index for you.

But as we talked about on that episode, hey, maybe there's some privacy issues here that we need to think through.

And some of those have actually come to pass in terms of zoom, people are using things like gong and other services to record calls.

And now zoom even has built into it the ability to not just record phone calls, calls like we're doing right now with the recording button flashing in red on the top left, but also create AI summaries of the call and transcripts.

And what if you're having your desktop recorded, and somebody sends you a confidential message, and now it's in your archive forever, then legal issues discovery.

All of this led to a great episode, really mind blowing.

No, Dan had to keep pushing the envelope.

So this week, or maybe even last week, he he released something called the rewind pendant.

It's a little device you wear on your neck like a pendant.

And the device is designed to record everything and do what he's doing on your desktop.

So I thought, hey, this is chaotic and insane.

Maybe people took them a little bit too seriously.

There have been a number of people who've tried recording pendant type things and obviously the police wear them and we've gotten normalized to police having them, because they're giant, and they flash red.

Why did you choose to put this out in the world?

And just to be clear, this isn't an April Fool's joke.

It is not and thank you, Jason, for having me on.

And yeah, I it's definitely not an April Fool's joke.

So the idea behind the pendant came out of the experience I actually had 10 years ago, going deaf, losing my sense of hearing and then gaining it back again, when I tried to hearing aid was magical, it felt like getting a superpower.

And ever since that moment, I've been on a hunt for ways technology can augment human capabilities and give us superpowers.

me to memory memory, just like our hearing gets worse as we get older, people actually forget about 90% of what they experience after a week.

And so the start of the company was trying to answer the question, there's a hearing aid for hearing and glasses for vision.

What's the equivalent for memory, we started on the Mac, because that's a great place to capture that we see what you hear.

And that has done tremendously well, we've been very proud of that we launched on iPhone, and then we're going to buy the end of the year will actually be on Windows.

And when we built this product, we built it with this vision in mind of capturing everything you see saying here in a privacy-first way.

So if you recall, the Mac app stores everything locally.

If we as a company get subpoenaed, there's nothing we can hand over.

It's all stored locally, it's all encrypted.

And we felt like this technology, this idea of a personalized AI was only going to work if it had a privacy-first approach.

And so, as we think about what it means to be a personalized AI, it means there's far more to life than just what happens on your Mac or Windows or iPhone.

There's this world out there that's the real world.

And if we could capture that in a way that respected your privacy, and I'm happy to talk at depth what we're doing for that, then we could really deliver on this vision where you and I can meet and I can remember every conversation we've had, it's as living my life with perfect memory.

And that was the experience I had of going deaf and getting a hearing aid is not just getting the power back to hear, but realizing how bad it had gotten.

And that's what we want to do for memory, help people realize how bad their memory had gotten and enable them to live a life with perfect memory.

And I had the same experience when I started losing a little bit of my eyesight and started wearing glasses.

I didn't even realize that things were blurry until you put them on.

But now comes the expectation of privacy.

But what about the other person who if you're recording my iPhone or my desktop, and I'm talking to them on something like signal, and they think they're having a private disappearing message, but you are overriding that by screen recording it.

Now, obviously, there's third party tools to do that, or I'm wearing this pendant in the real world.

And obviously, people can have and have it's been the plot of many a thriller that somebody has a pen that records.

But here, you know, we've got a startup company that's trying to normalize this, you're trying to make this mainstream, that is the goal here.

So what is your concern about a couple of examples I gave, I think my signal conversation or whatever I use for encrypted disappearing messages is no longer encrypted.

And not only is it not encrypted, it's indexed and searchable.

So you've you've basically hacked my signal.

And then any other app that I'm using, or in the real world, hey, this pendant is tiny.

This is different than and it's tiny by design, obviously, it's the size it looks like of like a large pill or something.

It's the opposite of wearing a police recorder.

So those are 2 examples, but 2 examples I'll give.

So how do you think about those 2 examples?

Yeah, I loved how you started with the word normalize.

And I think this is where looking at history can really help us.

150 years ago, the telephone came about, and you'd probably be surprised to realize that the most common complaint was the invasion of privacy.

And it wasn't because now we're just accepting the telephones are, you know, normal, but it was because the first version of the telephone you had to go to the general store for and people could overhear your conversation.

Even if you brought it to your home, these eavesdropping switchboard operators could hear your conversation.

And that's the stage we're at with personalized AI, we need to build technology that overcomes the proverbial eavesdropping switchboard operator to make it so that you don't have a choice between convenience and privacy, you get all of the benefits of a personalized AI and your data is private.

So let me give you some concrete examples.

1 of the ways the pendant can work is it allows you to actually do digital fingerprinting or voice fingerprinting of the speaker.

So if you were to speak and I were to speak, it identifies us differently speaker diarization.

And only if somebody has verbally opted in to being recorded, would it actually be persisted on the device.

So if I were running my everyday I could wear it, I could have conversations with myself I could if I did a great job of active listening, maybe I echo back what you're saying, but not a single word of what you say until you verbally opted in would be persisted.

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But you think you should be able to covertly record half the conversation you want to live in that world?

I think being record my covertly in a conversation recording myself

Why would it be crazy to record myself in a conversation?

To do it covertly would be incredibly rude and unethical.

If any of my you would never say you will lose all your friends.

Well, I mean, I'm asking this in a joking way, but I'm kind of serious.

If you covertly recorded me as a friend, a covertly recorded yourself in conversation with me, you would no longer be my friend.

And if I asked 100 people, if I asked 100 people, your friend covertly recorded their half of the conversation, and they have it for all time indexed, and they've been doing it for a year, you know what they would do, they would never speak to you again.

I didn't say we should covertly report people

you said you just said you would absolutely have no problem recording your side of the conversation with and you only said permission to record my side.

So maybe you're changing your position here.

Would you feel you need to get permission for me to record your side and not my side?

Well, first of all, I wouldn't hide the fact that I'm recording the conversation.

So just at the outset, that's why it's a device that you wear.

is with this device work if it was under a t shirt.

What it was like, because if you wear 1 of those recording pens just in like your jacket in your shirt pocket, it works.

but I think you may be overblowing the risk here.

I think there are 1.5 billion, you know, smart recorders like this 1 being used and sold every year.

Not a single, you know, not a single moment of outrage, or as far as I can tell.

They're large, and they have a recording flashing red light on them.

And the people who created them have thought this through.

And they're so large, you have to press a button, make a clicking sound, and then start recording.

They're not designed to be passively recording all the time like your device.

Well, okay, I think that's first of all, not true.

There's plenty that are much smaller than what we're thinking.

more than this is what we're the smaller we're thinking.

But I don't know that model, but there are spy cameras.

And if you did those, and you did that with a friend, they would never speak to you again.

And if you did it with certain people, and they found out you would get your ass handed to you.

I guess what is it that you're saying that you're so worried would get captured in a conversation with a friend?

This is what insincere people who want to take away your privacy say.

If you're not committing a crime, what are you worried about?

What if I tell a joke, and the standards change?

Or what if I had a couple drinks, and I said something and it came out the wrong way.

And now you use it as leverage over me in the future.

But to be clear, this is why people don't want

me recording myself, how can I record myself?

Hey, how do you feel about this person, that person, this person and then now you've got a whole transcript of all these questions you asked me and then you could say, back to me.

And just by recording your side of it, you would have an incredibly damaging transcript of you confirming to me facts, and the person would then know by insinuation, that I didn't object to them.

And then I would feel that you had covertly recorded me and this was a gross violation of my privacy.

And if I asked 100 people, hey, your friends been recording their side of every conversation you've had with them, not yours, don't worry, you have nothing to worry about.

I guarantee you 100 out of 100 people would not be friends with that person.

And when you tell me you don't have friends, I don't know if you're saying that to be cheeky, or if you

don't have I'm running a 20% startup, I have 3 young kids.

I mean, I have friends who have Asperger's who might say like, I really don't know how to relate to humans.

But this shows I think, and I like you, don't get me wrong.

It would be such a violation of trust what you've described that they would break up lifelong friendships over it.

Well, I'll say we didn't ask 100 people, we actually asked 1000 people, we asked the people in the United States with an income over 100k about a product like the rewind pendant, and we asked them a series of questions, including how much they would pay for it.

And that's partly how we price the product, is recognizing the market opportunity.

There are 4,000 people who are deranged lunatics, this is your phrase, the people who might like this product, who pre-ordered the product.

And I'm not trying to dismiss the privacy concern.

I just think there are times in technology when new technology comes about and it's easy to criticize the first version.

I'm not saying the product is something that I'm proud of.

I think the product that we ship, and when we ship it, it'll be a product that will check all of the boxes when it comes to privacy.

Because the last thing we want to do is do a Google lasted for wearables, we want to do for AI personalized AI, we think the only way to build a personalized AI that wins in this market is 1 that is privacy first.

The example I gave you of recording 1 side of the conversation, just 1 of many, and other is just to summarize the conversation.

But you don't seem to recognize my point.

And you're calling me a Luddite basically.

So you're framing me as a Luddite, which is a great debate tactic, but it will not work with me, because I've been at this for a lot longer than you.

You don't get to just frame me as a Luddite.

No, sorry, Dan, you still haven't answered the question.

If 100 people were told that their friend was recording their side of the conversation, you glossed right over that and went to pricing.

So let's pause for a second, have you actually answer that question?

How would they feel if their friend covertly recorded just their side of the conversation?

Would you be willing to do that with your survey data?

I don't want to build a product that does that my goal is not to build a product that covertly records your side of the conversation.

That was your that was your ask is, would you would this product be able to covertly record the conversation?

And in just like this can covertly record a conversation and record your side of conversation, which is worse than the product we're offering, by the way, is not the product that I'm

And they're illegal in some states, right.

And they're, they're, These are things that not are not these are kind of the underbelly.

In the world of devices, you're like a venture backed startup, like a major venture backed startup.

This is why I think you're super misguided.

And you're using selectively the history of people being opposed to technology, as opposed to being truly thoughtful about it.

No, no, no, to be clear, to be clear, the example of the telephone, I wasn't trying to call you a Luddite, I think people were right to be complaining about the privacy of the telephone.

Because the very first telephone wasn't private enough.

I think people make the mistake of thinking that privacy is at odds with convenience.

I think Facebook did the world a big disservice by actually making that true.

But if you look at the telephone, the only way it went mainstream and became normalized, which is what you're asking about was once it realized how to build a telephone,

shopping operator without an eavesdropping switchboard operator and a large

red light whenever it's recording on the tip of the pendant.

If that's what it took to be privacy first, we would and that's I'm not against it at all.

And I'll tell you, we're very, very early in this project.

And part of the reason we're talking about it.

We rushed it out because right now, the conversation's being had about wearable AI.

And I'm worried that the other companies out there, like Humane, aren't taking a privacy-first approach.

I'm worried that they will tread the well torn path of scorched earth that Google that Google Glass did.

And I want to make sure that the conversations about privacy, not about convenience, I don't want them to be pitted against each other.

So am I for a big red button, if that's what it's going to take to build a privacy first solution that normalizes personalized AI as something AI is not an auto your privacy.

So you rushed it out, because there's other competitors, and you want to at least get a flagpole out there.

I couldn't have waited to announce it until

that explains why I that explains why my reaction to it was this isn't thought thought out well enough.

If we were at a party, you're wearing it next year.

Do you think you have to hold it up to the other 7 people and say everybody I'm planning on recording just my side of this conversation.

But if any of you would like to record at this dinner party, you're part of the conversation.

So I could have a permanent record of this in a transcript and a summary.

Can you each say, I consent to recording and your name?

Do you think that should be the best practice?

I think I wouldn't bring this to dinner party, first of all.

You would you would advise people that this should not be in social situations?

Well, I don't think that's the way you get the most value.

value would advise people do not wear this in a social situation.

No, I would advise it wearing situations where it's going to be valuable to you.

For me, conversations with my spouse are a perfect example.

I think she and I would have a much better connection and communication.

If I could go back to and remember the things she's reminded me of this plenty of times, if I remember everything she said

and certainly I think most for me most relationships,

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Debating personal AI hardware with Rewind AI’s Dan Siroker | E1828