- The piece discusses the relationship between Teddy Atlas, Customato, and Mike Tyson
- Teddy Atlas trained Mike Tyson, who was a troubled youth with a history of arrests
- Teddy Atlas put a gun to Tyson's ear after he was inappropriate with Teddy's niece, leading to his expulsion by Customato
- The complexity of human nature and drama is emphasized
- The piece also discusses Teddy Atlas' father, who was a doctor and had a big influence on Teddy's life
- Teddy's father was known for his diagnostic skills and his generosity towards patients who couldn't afford medical care
- Teddy Atlas shares a story about his father helping homeless people during the holidays to prevent them from hurting themselves
- Teddy Atlas reflects on his father's impact and their relationship, mentioning that the word "love" was not allowed to be expressed between them.

- The speaker's father made a deal with God to die before his son, which the speaker later realized was unrealistic.
- The speaker's father was a doctor who loved reading non-fiction books, particularly about science and wars.
- The speaker had a troubled past, getting into fights and engaging in dangerous activities.
- The speaker believed that by getting hurt and damaged, he could bring his father back.
- The speaker ended up in Rikers Island and realized the damage he had caused to his father.
- The speaker recounts a fight where he saw someone reaching into their pocket for a knife.

The speaker recalls a situation where he was involved in a fight and had to make a decision. He chose to stand his ground and ended up getting injured. He reflects on the importance of knowing who your true friends are and the fear that can paralyze people in difficult situations. He also mentions his father, who is a doctor, and expresses confidence in his ability to save him.

- The speaker was taken to a hospital after an incident and felt free from fear and inhibitions.
- They wanted a specific doctor, but there wasn't enough time.
- The speaker had a lot of stitches and narrowly avoided a more serious injury.
- The speaker's father visited them in the hospital and complimented the doctors on their work.
- The speaker learned from their trainer, Cus D'Amato, that a person's actions reveal their true intentions.
- Fear is connected to greatness because it allows for bravery and selflessness.
- The speaker's father was their greatest teacher, teaching them the importance of submitting less and avoiding quitting.
- The speaker acknowledges that regret can be painful and long-lasting.

- Regret is a solitary sentence and a powerful phrase.
- Submit or compromise oneself less to reach a better place.
- Convenience is attached to things that hurt in life.
- Loyalty is the lifeblood of humanity and without it, we are empty.
- Being loyal can be painful, but without it, we are like ghost ships.
- The speaker felt betrayed when he was younger and when his partnership with Cus D'Amato ended.
- Cus saw potential in the speaker to become his heir and continue his legacy in boxing.
- Loyalty is everything and the speaker couldn't leave Cus, even if it meant giving up his own boxing career.

- The speaker was encouraged by someone to become a teacher instead of just being a champion fighter.
- They started teaching kids and built a successful boxing gym.
- They were asked to evaluate a young Mike Tyson and saw his potential.
- The speaker recognized the responsibility of training Tyson and made the decision to train him.
- The speaker emphasized their role as the boss and in charge of the training.
- They were impressed by Tyson's desire to keep going but made the decision to end the session.

- The speaker discusses a conversation with Cus about a young fighter who didn't want to go to a certain place, but did so to please others.
- Cus emphasizes that it doesn't matter how the fighter got there, but that he got there and was ready to persevere.
- Cus predicts that the fighter will become the first heavyweight champion and asks the speaker to teach him.
- The speaker reflects on his role in teaching the fighter and making him mentally tougher.
- The speaker feels betrayed when Cus cuts him off from the fighter and himself.
- The speaker learns to forgive Cus by realizing his own weaknesses and the need to forgive himself.

The text discusses the relationship between Teddy Atlas, Customato, and Mike Tyson. Teddy Atlas trained Mike Tyson, who was a troubled youth. Teddy Atlas put a gun to Tyson's ear after he was inappropriate with Teddy's niece, leading to his expulsion by Customato. The piece also delves into Teddy Atlas' father, who was a doctor and had a big influence on Teddy's life. Teddy Atlas reflects on his father's impact and their relationship. The speaker recounts a fight where he saw someone reaching into their pocket for a knife. The speaker reflects on the importance of knowing who your true friends are and the fear that can paralyze people in difficult situations. The speaker acknowledges that regret can be painful and long-lasting. Loyalty is emphasized as the lifeblood of humanity. The speaker felt betrayed when his partnership with Cus D'Amato ended. The speaker started teaching kids and built a successful boxing gym. They were asked to evaluate a young Mike Tyson and made the decision to train him. The speaker reflects on their role in teaching the fighter and making him mentally tougher. The speaker learns to forgive Cus by realizing his own weaknesses and the need to forgive himself.

- The speaker reflects on their past actions and the motivations behind them
- They discuss the importance of leaving a legacy and the sacrifices made for it
- The speaker realizes that they were asking someone to give up on life, which they now understand is wrong
- The speaker discusses their relationship with Cuss and how they felt betrayed, but later realized that Cuss didn't give up on life
- The speaker questions the sincerity of Mike Tyson's apology and wonders if it was motivated by personal growth or completing the 12-step program
- They express uncertainty about whether the apology was genuine or reflexive
- The speaker appreciates the apology but would have preferred a more private setting
- The speaker acknowledges Tyson's emotional nature and the fascination people have with him.

The speaker discusses the fascination and love affair with a meteorite that landed on Earth, which has become more human-like over time. They talk about forgiveness, compassion, and the complex emotions surrounding a past incident involving pulling a gun on someone. The speaker reflects on their own feelings of dread and the pressure to not fail others. They also discuss the fear of falling down after achieving success and the importance of loyalty. The speaker forgives the person involved in the incident and acknowledges the positive impact they had on each other's lives. They express the need to forgive oneself in order to have hope and forgive others.

- The speaker reflects on the importance of forgiveness and how it relates to self-forgiveness.
- They share a humorous anecdote about getting lost with someone named Cus.
- The speaker discusses how Cus helped them make better choices and avoid submitting to weakness.
- The speaker analyzes Mike Tyson's boxing career and argues that he was not truly great because he relied on others' weaknesses and did not find a way to win when his talent was not enough.
- The speaker highlights Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield as examples of fighters who were strong and willing to overcome obstacles.

- The speaker discusses his thoughts on Mike Tyson's boxing career
- He believes that Tyson only had 5 fights where he had to overcome something, and he didn't succeed in those fights
- The speaker emphasizes the importance of reputation and legacy
- He talks about his fear of living with regret and wanting to set a good example for his children
- The speaker acknowledges Tyson's talent but also mentions his shortcomings
- He concludes that Tyson is the greatest of all time when considering his overall impact and achievements.

- The speaker reflects on the wisdom of Cus, stating that if Teddy Atlas got his way, he might have been a better person but not a great fighter.
- The speaker believes that part of becoming a great fighter is the battle to be a better person.
- Cus knew the challenges Tyson would face and was willing to sacrifice himself to have greatness.
- The speaker reflects on his own relationship with Cus and the message he received from him.
- Cus offered the speaker 5% of Tyson's earnings to keep quiet about certain incidents, but the speaker refused because it was an escape clause for Cus and not a real deal.
- The speaker is disappointed in Cus for thinking he could buy his loyalty and for not believing in the things he told the speaker he believed in.

- The speaker expresses gratitude for someone who believed in them and stood up for them in court.
- Loyalty is emphasized as an important quality to aspire to and is seen as a key to a fulfilled life.
- The speaker discusses how to overcome betrayal by learning from it and forgiving oneself.
- The importance of memory and forgetfulness is mentioned in relation to personal growth.
- The speaker reflects on the fear of death and expresses hope to face it bravely.
- The conversation concludes with gratitude and a quote from Muhammad Ali.

The speaker reflects on their past actions and motivations, discussing the importance of leaving a legacy and sacrifices made. They question the sincerity of Mike Tyson's apology and discuss their relationship with Cus. The speaker reflects on forgiveness, compassion, and the fear of failure. They analyze Tyson's boxing career and argue that he was not truly great. The speaker emphasizes the importance of reputation and legacy, and reflects on their own relationship with Cus. Loyalty and overcoming betrayal are discussed, along with the importance of memory and personal growth. The conversation concludes with gratitude and a quote from Muhammad Ali.

Teddy Atlas is boxing trainer to 18 world champions, ESPN boxing commentator, and host of podcast THE FIGHT with Teddy Atlas. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
Teddy's Twitter: https://twitter.com/TeddyAtlasReal
Teddy's Instagram: https://instagram.com/teddy_atlas
Teddy's Website: https://teddyatlas.com/
Atlas: From the Streets to the Ring (book): https://amzn.to/48uIQBj
Teddy's Podcast: https://youtube.com/THEFIGHTwithTeddyAtlas
Dr. Theodore Atlas Foundation: http://dratlasfoundation.com/

PODCAST INFO:
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Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
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Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41

OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
3:25 - Lessons from father
13:31 - Scar story
34:09 - Cus D'Amato
44:21 - Mike Tyson
2:02:17 - Forgiveness

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But he knew that we want him to go and he made himself ready to go in order to satisfy us and that's just as good.

And Cus said, damn right, it's just as good.

All that matters was Not how he got there, but that he got there.

That's all that matters, that he got there.

That he got to the place to act like a fighter.

He didn't want to, damn right he didn't want to, but he knew we want him to, and he knew in order to pass the test, he had to do it.

He goes, now it's gonna be your job to teach him, to make him a fighter that don't get bloody noses, that don't get hit, and will get to that place without being coerced to get there, to get to that place on his own, instead of using the things that he had to use to get to that place today.

Those things are not going to be available 1 day when you, and listen to this, you talk about a man being prophetic, because it's pretty good.

You talk about man being on a job, on money, Lex.

He says, how do you think he finishes the sentence?

He goes, because someday, because you know, you're gonna have to make sure that he learns these things.

Because you know, he'll be your first heavyweight champ.

He's getting out of jail, out of juvenile detention, try on.

There's a lot of things we find out later, a lot of problems, weaknesses.

And then he turned to me and goes, you want to come live with us, young man?

Even that, Cus said to me later, what do you think about that?

Yeah, he said, what do you think about that?

And we're talking, I said, ain't gonna be that polite in a little while down the road.

Again, he knew that that's what he felt that he needed to project himself as, to present himself as, to get to where you want to get to.

Did you see what Cus was seeing in terms of the heavyweight champion

No, again, the easiest answer would be yes.

Teddy's just, Teddy Alice, genius, wow, wow.

And I just, my job, it was simple, simpler than Cuss's.

I knew nothing, I just knew rudiments of boxing, I knew what it took to be a fighter and how to execute it, the steps of executing it.

The rest of it, you get blurred by those other things.

It was just get him in the gym, make him mentally stronger, make him face things, and teach him how to slip punches, and create holes, and fill those freaking holes with devastating punches.

I'm gonna teach them to fill holes and fill them with punches with bad intentions.

I'm throwing punches with bad intentions.

You said the don't get a bloody nose, but the part of the job that makes it mentally tougher.

Most important part of the job, to Make him face things.

Make him face where he's lying to himself, where he's submitting.

We start this conversation with submission.

Submit less, submit less, submit less every day.

Cuz only come to the gym once in a while.

And if I had him sparring, he would come, because that was his project, that was the heavyweight.

Now he came, you know, put my life in Kuz.

Kuz had life, he was losing a little life, but that made the light bulb bright again, it did.

And it was great to see, I felt proud of that.

And that's why when it all went bad and Cus took the side, the only side he could take, the side of the next heavyweight champ of the world.

But he left me, his partner, the young master.

And I'm like, for a while I thought everything Cus taught me, said to me was a lie, I didn't want to be any part of it anymore.

Until I got a little more mature and I got a little past that where I was able to understand.

I was able to understand that just because somebody that you perceived as great in every area, is you find to be weak in certain areas, doesn't mean that they can't still be what they were to you.

It's something that, it's something that can be understood or forgiven.

It's hard, It's hard to get to that place and forgive somebody in that kind of way that I felt betrayed because Cus told me the most important thing was loyalty.

Cus told me he loved me because I was loyal.

Cus told people that the reason that he went to court was because I didn't give up anybody, even though it meant putting me in a risk of going to jail for 10 years.

And because I felt that he admired those traits.

And so I assumed that he would show the same traits.

He signed the papers that those so-called feds of mine signed.

You know, he took a deal to, you know, to have the future heavyweight champions who turned out and to let me go, to sign the deal to let me take the weight.

For people who don't know, Mike was inappropriate with a young girl and you pulled the gun on him.

I don't know if there is deeper things to say about that situation.

But why do you think Cus made the decision to cut you off from both Mike Tyson and from Cus D'Amato?

Like to break that when he valued loyalty so much?

I got him to the way he needed to get Ford Light back in the gym.

If I wasn't in the gym at that particular time, Tyson never would have been in the gym.

There would have been no gym to bring him to.

When they called up and made that phone call to bring him to the gym, there would have been no activity.

There would have been no boxing program, there would have been no trainer training him 24-7 the way I was, where Kars wasn't capable of doing that at that point in his life.

I get the benefit of a career, I get the benefit of knowledge, I get the benefit of a

benefit of knowledge, I get the benefit of a life, I get the benefit of learning, of becoming hopefully a better person.

I get the benefit of being betrayed again.

But- That's a hell of a statement right there.

I don't know what the benefit of that is.

You can learn to forgive weakness, you know, when you realize how, how easy it is to be weak.

And when you realize that, somebody asked me, how did you get to the point where you could forgive?

It's a pretty good question, pretty simple, pretty basic, pretty important, right?

And I didn't understand, I understood, but I did understand immediately for me, I said, how can I not forgive somebody?

It becomes easier to learn how to forgive when you're still trying to forgive yourself.

When you're still in the process of trying to forgive yourself for all your own inherent weaknesses and betrayals of people like my father, in different ways that we forget very easily because it's handy and it's a way of surviving.

It's a lot easier to figure it out, rationalize it, to find forgiveness when you realize that you still haven't figured out completely how to forgive yourself.

And so that helped me figure out how to forgive Cus.

Because to figure out how to forgive me, I had to understand why I did these things, where the weaknesses came from, where the selfishness came from, where the convenience came from, that they really existed.

They existed for me not being prepared to understand that I could be stronger, to want to be stronger.

And then I looked at Cus, he wanted to be stronger, but he got to a point in life where he had been strong for a lot of his life.

He was strong with me, he was strong with a lot of things in his life.

And does everyone deserve a pass in life?

Where he got to a place where everything was in 1 basket, the basket of boxing.

He once told me that he never got married because it would have been selfish to a woman to have gotten married when his whole life was boxing, that he couldn't give to a kid, he couldn't give to her.

And Jim Jacobs and Bill Caden took care of the bills, so he didn't really need money that way.

But what was the payoff for that kind of life, that kind of commitment, that kind of sacrifice?

The payoff was to have champions, to have a champion that would keep your name alive.

You know, that word legacy, like what does it mean?

Sometimes it's just a word, sometimes it's more than a word.

It's being given a pension on your way out for the rest of your life, for your life, wherever you're going.

You're going to wherever you're going for eternity.

It's the only thing that you take with you is what you left behind.

And for Cuss, it was all about leaving behind a mark, a mark that of champion.

Yeah, it was attached to ego, we all have it.

Yeah, it was attached to some selfishness and all, but yeah, it was also attached to wanting to leave something great behind.

To know that you were part of it, that you existed for a reason, that you sacrificed for a reason.

And all that freaking pain I brought my father.

And I made it into, I was okay because it was righteous.

And Cus betrayed mine, but He didn't do it maliciously.

He did it out of, again, my father came home, this is how I'm gonna connect it.

My father came home from work 1 night at 12 o'clock and I was waiting out.

And like I said, I was over 9, 10 years old.

He goes, go to bed, what are you doing up?

I said, I'm waiting for you, waiting for you.

You were there, why were you there so late?

He answered me, he said there was a patient, there was a sick patient.

I said, he must be better now, because you're his doctor.

My father, nothing got in the way of the truth, nothing.

Matter of factly, he said to me, no, he's not gonna get better, he's gonna die.

And so as a 9 year old kid, you know, you're a kid, you're selfish, you know, not in a bad way, but you want what you want.

And then I said, I just said it almost angry.

And that's, I finally connected the dots.

This idiot that didn't graduate high school, I finally connected the dots.

You don't give up on aspirations of life.

Doesn't have to be a physical form of it.

It's life, It's having a reason to be alive.

And Cuss' only reason to have tomorrow was to have another heavyweight champ.

And Teddy Atlas, even though we were together all those years, and we were partners, and we trained together, and we were, you know, the only thing we didn't do was what they did in the Indian movies where they cut the finger and they became blood brothers.

That's the only thing we didn't do and I felt like we did that without cutting.

And now here we are and he freaking betrayed me.

And then all of a sudden I connected to Daz.

I was like, he didn't betray me in that cold sense.

Years later, Mike Tyson apologized to you.

I wanna be the great gracious guy right now, say, oh, I'm so human that, you know, a man's man enough to say, sorry, that's it, We're good.

I wanna be really, that's the best presentation of Teddy Atlas I could put out there.

If he truly did it for himself, that he really did it because he felt that, It was true.

But if he's persuaded by other things, he was in the middle, I know I'm taking it too deep, I know it, but what am I going to do?

He was in the middle of 12 steps with the, you know, getting out of drugs, alcohol, 12 steps, which is a commemorable thing, really it is.

And he's taking the steps, a part of the steps was to admit or to apologize to all people you offended in life.

Okay, But are you doing it for the 12 steps or are you doing it because you really, truly have come to terms with believing what you did was that hurtful to me and that it matters to you that it was that hurtful to me and that you were wrong in doing it.

I'm a yeah you're you're a teddy freaking you're you're you should be better than that.

Maybe he is, really, seriously, maybe he is.

No matter what a man says, it's what he does in the end that he intended to do all along.

So to this day, today, Was it really genuine or was it reflexive of that moment for him to get what he needed for that step?

To really, that he really cared that what he did to me caused me to do what I did, because I did something that was pretty damn bad to him too.

Is he able to deal with that and put that where it has to be put.

Is he able to put that or is it just he did something he had to do and maybe he's sorry he did it?

I know, look, I appreciate it that he, I would have rather been in a private place.

Yeah, so what people don't know, you were in the middle of commentating a fight and he walked up from behind you and he said he was sorry, he shook your hand, gave you a hug.

But he's emotional and he can be, I can see why people have a fascination and a love affair with him right now.

Because he was, because, you know, he was, he was the meteor that went across the sky that if they didn't see it, their parents told them about it.

There was a meteor that came across the sky 1 day and the meteor is walking around in the room now and that's the meteorite.

And it actually landed here and that's it right there.

And now he's come a long way, and now he's more human, and he's lovable, and compassionate, and he cries.

And I get the fascination, I get the love affair, I get it because we're inherently, we're people that want to forgive, we're people that we want to be good and part of being good is to forgive people and to show compassion to people and when somebody's been damaged, to acknowledge they've been damaged, to acknowledge that you know they've been damaged and you care about them being damaged.

You know, in some ways, almost through adulation.

And he's getting adulation from people, like, you know, which is to an incredible level.

I don't know if underneath all of this, he's a complex guy, he's a sensitive guy.

1 complex guy talking about another complex guy.

I don't know if underneath it all, where he's really truly at, as far as that day that he said that to me.

Is there part of you that's sorry to Mike?

I know dimensions of human nature too well to not know that he still has to have certain, because I have those strong feelings.

Now, he could look at it if he was to be held to his word that night, that he just acknowledges that what happened he deserved because of what he, you know, the position he put me in and he put himself in, what he did.

Still, you don't regret pulling the gun on him.

Yeah, I regret very much that I had to, that I regret very much.

I hated him for putting me in that position.

That, you know, how dare he think that somebody's feelings are that trivial.

That the way I would feel about myself and the way the girl would feel about herself that was 11 years old at the time, how she would feel about herself, how dare he think it's that trivial that, you know, that I shouldn't be ready to both die and kill for that.

Why didn't Cus D'Amato see it in a deeper way and talk through it?

The word came back to me, But of course, what does it mean?

But the word came back to me that Cus said you were right, but if he took the side of Teddy, he would destroy potentially a great fighter.

Why do you think that, okay, if you were to try to understand the point he was making, why is that true?

Isn't the part of greatness that you said is building the character of knowing what is right?

Because he was afraid to go there where he used to not be afraid.

Because it's kind of like you're never afraid of going up.

You know, when I train to fight it now, if I come out of retirement, I train to fight it now, I feel in camp, like, I feel like I'm on death row every day.

That if every day I try to retrace my memory and say, did I feel this way when I was younger?

I feel every day a dreadful feeling that if I don't get this right, I've betrayed everything.

I was in camp for 2 months training a guy for the world title a few years ago, fighting the hardest puncher in the world at the time, and Adonis Stevenson, and the fighter was Ukrainian, and I was brought in to train him for that fight, and he trusted me, and changed his whole style.

Oh my God, I went to bed every night like praying, dread, waking up dread, my stomach down to here, saying, what if I fail him?

What if everything that I told him was going to happen don't happen?

What if he trusted me and I betrayed that trust?

And the thing was, with Cus, was, you know, he used to be stronger than that.

And then I tried to figure it out why I got this way and why it was so dreadful to me and why I felt like I was on death row every day trying to fight it.

Will we accomplish what we promised and we would accomplish?

And then I started thinking, how did I become this week?

How did I freaking become, I was a pretty strong freaking guy, how did I become this week?

And then finally I think I figured it out, you know why?

But once I finally got up, now he was looking down.

I said, there was nothing to lose on my way up.

Now all of a sudden there's something to lose when you're up there and you're looking down.

He accomplished 2 world champs, all this stuff, right?

Now all of a sudden, it wasn't about moving forward.

This was his last chance to live forever.

To have the youngest, it wasn't just heavyweight champ, you gotta remember, he was the youngest heavyweight champ ever and to have that it was okay to die now and How's loyalty Someone named Teddy Atlas gonna get in a way of that That's a tidal wave that there ain't no wall that's been made high enough to stop that tidal wave.

And you know what, who are we to say that we could ever build that wall that big?

Do you think, if you were to put yourself in the shoes of Custom Otto, Can you see yourself having the big enough wall or you would choose loyalty?

Now if I answer the way I feel, then I'm making myself John Wayne again.

No matter what a man says, what he does in the end that he intends to do all along.

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Teddy Atlas: Mike Tyson, Cus D'Amato, Boxing, Loyalty, Fear & Greatness | Lex Fridman Podcast #406