- The piece discusses the relationship between Teddy Atlas, Customato, and Mike Tyson
- Teddy Atlas trained Mike Tyson, who was a troubled youth with a history of arrests
- Teddy Atlas put a gun to Tyson's ear after he was inappropriate with Teddy's niece, leading to his expulsion by Customato
- The complexity of human nature and drama is emphasized
- The piece also discusses Teddy Atlas' father, who was a doctor and had a big influence on Teddy's life
- Teddy's father was known for his diagnostic skills and his generosity towards patients who couldn't afford medical care
- Teddy Atlas shares a story about his father helping homeless people during the holidays to prevent them from hurting themselves
- Teddy Atlas reflects on his father's impact and their relationship, mentioning that the word "love" was not allowed to be expressed between them.

- The speaker's father made a deal with God to die before his son, which the speaker later realized was unrealistic.
- The speaker's father was a doctor who loved reading non-fiction books, particularly about science and wars.
- The speaker had a troubled past, getting into fights and engaging in dangerous activities.
- The speaker believed that by getting hurt and damaged, he could bring his father back.
- The speaker ended up in Rikers Island and realized the damage he had caused to his father.
- The speaker recounts a fight where he saw someone reaching into their pocket for a knife.

The speaker recalls a situation where he was involved in a fight and had to make a decision. He chose to stand his ground and ended up getting injured. He reflects on the importance of knowing who your true friends are and the fear that can paralyze people in difficult situations. He also mentions his father, who is a doctor, and expresses confidence in his ability to save him.

- The speaker was taken to a hospital after an incident and felt free from fear and inhibitions.
- They wanted a specific doctor, but there wasn't enough time.
- The speaker had a lot of stitches and narrowly avoided a more serious injury.
- The speaker's father visited them in the hospital and complimented the doctors on their work.
- The speaker learned from their trainer, Cus D'Amato, that a person's actions reveal their true intentions.
- Fear is connected to greatness because it allows for bravery and selflessness.
- The speaker's father was their greatest teacher, teaching them the importance of submitting less and avoiding quitting.
- The speaker acknowledges that regret can be painful and long-lasting.

- Regret is a solitary sentence and a powerful phrase.
- Submit or compromise oneself less to reach a better place.
- Convenience is attached to things that hurt in life.
- Loyalty is the lifeblood of humanity and without it, we are empty.
- Being loyal can be painful, but without it, we are like ghost ships.
- The speaker felt betrayed when he was younger and when his partnership with Cus D'Amato ended.
- Cus saw potential in the speaker to become his heir and continue his legacy in boxing.
- Loyalty is everything and the speaker couldn't leave Cus, even if it meant giving up his own boxing career.

- The speaker was encouraged by someone to become a teacher instead of just being a champion fighter.
- They started teaching kids and built a successful boxing gym.
- They were asked to evaluate a young Mike Tyson and saw his potential.
- The speaker recognized the responsibility of training Tyson and made the decision to train him.
- The speaker emphasized their role as the boss and in charge of the training.
- They were impressed by Tyson's desire to keep going but made the decision to end the session.

- The speaker discusses a conversation with Cus about a young fighter who didn't want to go to a certain place, but did so to please others.
- Cus emphasizes that it doesn't matter how the fighter got there, but that he got there and was ready to persevere.
- Cus predicts that the fighter will become the first heavyweight champion and asks the speaker to teach him.
- The speaker reflects on his role in teaching the fighter and making him mentally tougher.
- The speaker feels betrayed when Cus cuts him off from the fighter and himself.
- The speaker learns to forgive Cus by realizing his own weaknesses and the need to forgive himself.

The text discusses the relationship between Teddy Atlas, Customato, and Mike Tyson. Teddy Atlas trained Mike Tyson, who was a troubled youth. Teddy Atlas put a gun to Tyson's ear after he was inappropriate with Teddy's niece, leading to his expulsion by Customato. The piece also delves into Teddy Atlas' father, who was a doctor and had a big influence on Teddy's life. Teddy Atlas reflects on his father's impact and their relationship. The speaker recounts a fight where he saw someone reaching into their pocket for a knife. The speaker reflects on the importance of knowing who your true friends are and the fear that can paralyze people in difficult situations. The speaker acknowledges that regret can be painful and long-lasting. Loyalty is emphasized as the lifeblood of humanity. The speaker felt betrayed when his partnership with Cus D'Amato ended. The speaker started teaching kids and built a successful boxing gym. They were asked to evaluate a young Mike Tyson and made the decision to train him. The speaker reflects on their role in teaching the fighter and making him mentally tougher. The speaker learns to forgive Cus by realizing his own weaknesses and the need to forgive himself.

- The speaker reflects on their past actions and the motivations behind them
- They discuss the importance of leaving a legacy and the sacrifices made for it
- The speaker realizes that they were asking someone to give up on life, which they now understand is wrong
- The speaker discusses their relationship with Cuss and how they felt betrayed, but later realized that Cuss didn't give up on life
- The speaker questions the sincerity of Mike Tyson's apology and wonders if it was motivated by personal growth or completing the 12-step program
- They express uncertainty about whether the apology was genuine or reflexive
- The speaker appreciates the apology but would have preferred a more private setting
- The speaker acknowledges Tyson's emotional nature and the fascination people have with him.

The speaker discusses the fascination and love affair with a meteorite that landed on Earth, which has become more human-like over time. They talk about forgiveness, compassion, and the complex emotions surrounding a past incident involving pulling a gun on someone. The speaker reflects on their own feelings of dread and the pressure to not fail others. They also discuss the fear of falling down after achieving success and the importance of loyalty. The speaker forgives the person involved in the incident and acknowledges the positive impact they had on each other's lives. They express the need to forgive oneself in order to have hope and forgive others.

- The speaker reflects on the importance of forgiveness and how it relates to self-forgiveness.
- They share a humorous anecdote about getting lost with someone named Cus.
- The speaker discusses how Cus helped them make better choices and avoid submitting to weakness.
- The speaker analyzes Mike Tyson's boxing career and argues that he was not truly great because he relied on others' weaknesses and did not find a way to win when his talent was not enough.
- The speaker highlights Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield as examples of fighters who were strong and willing to overcome obstacles.

- The speaker discusses his thoughts on Mike Tyson's boxing career
- He believes that Tyson only had 5 fights where he had to overcome something, and he didn't succeed in those fights
- The speaker emphasizes the importance of reputation and legacy
- He talks about his fear of living with regret and wanting to set a good example for his children
- The speaker acknowledges Tyson's talent but also mentions his shortcomings
- He concludes that Tyson is the greatest of all time when considering his overall impact and achievements.

- The speaker reflects on the wisdom of Cus, stating that if Teddy Atlas got his way, he might have been a better person but not a great fighter.
- The speaker believes that part of becoming a great fighter is the battle to be a better person.
- Cus knew the challenges Tyson would face and was willing to sacrifice himself to have greatness.
- The speaker reflects on his own relationship with Cus and the message he received from him.
- Cus offered the speaker 5% of Tyson's earnings to keep quiet about certain incidents, but the speaker refused because it was an escape clause for Cus and not a real deal.
- The speaker is disappointed in Cus for thinking he could buy his loyalty and for not believing in the things he told the speaker he believed in.

- The speaker expresses gratitude for someone who believed in them and stood up for them in court.
- Loyalty is emphasized as an important quality to aspire to and is seen as a key to a fulfilled life.
- The speaker discusses how to overcome betrayal by learning from it and forgiving oneself.
- The importance of memory and forgetfulness is mentioned in relation to personal growth.
- The speaker reflects on the fear of death and expresses hope to face it bravely.
- The conversation concludes with gratitude and a quote from Muhammad Ali.

The speaker reflects on their past actions and motivations, discussing the importance of leaving a legacy and sacrifices made. They question the sincerity of Mike Tyson's apology and discuss their relationship with Cus. The speaker reflects on forgiveness, compassion, and the fear of failure. They analyze Tyson's boxing career and argue that he was not truly great. The speaker emphasizes the importance of reputation and legacy, and reflects on their own relationship with Cus. Loyalty and overcoming betrayal are discussed, along with the importance of memory and personal growth. The conversation concludes with gratitude and a quote from Muhammad Ali.

Teddy Atlas is boxing trainer to 18 world champions, ESPN boxing commentator, and host of podcast THE FIGHT with Teddy Atlas. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
Teddy's Twitter: https://twitter.com/TeddyAtlasReal
Teddy's Instagram: https://instagram.com/teddy_atlas
Teddy's Website: https://teddyatlas.com/
Atlas: From the Streets to the Ring (book): https://amzn.to/48uIQBj
Teddy's Podcast: https://youtube.com/THEFIGHTwithTeddyAtlas
Dr. Theodore Atlas Foundation: http://dratlasfoundation.com/

PODCAST INFO:
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Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41

OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
3:25 - Lessons from father
13:31 - Scar story
34:09 - Cus D'Amato
44:21 - Mike Tyson
2:02:17 - Forgiveness

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That's all that matters, that he got there, that he got to the place to act like a fighter, to do what we want him to do, to be ready to persevere, to go beyond the comfort level, to do another round.

He didn't want to, damn right he didn't want to, but he knew we want him to, and he knew in order to pass the test, he had to do it.

He goes, now it's gonna be your job to get him in the gym, make him mentally stronger, make him face things, and teach him how to slip punches, and create holes, and fill those freaking holes with devastating punches.

This is a class, with punches with bad intentions.

The following is a conversation with Teddy Atlas, a legendary and at times controversial boxing trainer and commentator.

When I was going to this conversation with Teddy, I was ready to talk boxing.

Styles, matches, techniques, tactics, and his analysis of individual fighters like Mike Tyson, Michael Moore, Klitschko's, Usyk, Povekin, Lomachenko, Triple G, Canelo, Muhammad Ali, Shagray Leonard, Hagler, Duran, Floyd, and on and on and on.

Like I said, I came ready to talk boxing, but I stayed for something even bigger, the Shakespearean human story of Teddy Atlas, Customato, and Mike Tyson.

It's a story about loyalty, betrayal, fear, and greatness.

It's a story where Nobody is perfect and everybody is human.

To summarize, in the early 80s, young trainer Teddy Atlas worked with his mentor, Customado, in training the young boxing protege, now a boxing legend, Mike Tyson.

Mike was a troubled youth, arrested over 40 times, and at age 15, he was sexually inappropriate with Teddy's 11-year-old niece.

In response to this, Teddy put a .38 caliber handgun to Tyson's ear and told him to never touch his family again or he would kill him if he did.

In part, I think to help minimize the chance of Mike Tyson, who Cust legally adopted, would be taken away by the state.

And with him, the dream of developing 1 of the greatest boxers of all time.

Of course, that summary doesn't capture the full complexity of human nature and human drama involved here.

For that, you have to listen to this conversation.

The things said and the things left unsaid.

The contradictions of love and anger that permeate his stories and his philosophy on life.

Like I said, I came to talk about boxing and stayed to talk about life.

This conversation will stay with me for a long time.

The people close to you, the people you trust, The people you love are everything.

And if they betray you and break your heart, forgive them.

To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description.

And now, dear friends, here's Teddy Atlas.

You wrote in the book that your father had a big influence on your life.

What lessons have you learned about life from your father?

When you ask that question, you know, I remember Custom Otto when I was with him up in Gadsden for all those years, he used to say to me, Teddy, you learn through osmosis.

I believe that's true to that, if I know what osmosis is.

But I learned through osmosis with my father.

And when you're around someone who lives a certain kind of life and does certain things, it penetrates.

I'm gonna sound like an idiot right now because I'm being a son, but he was the greatest diagnostic doctor, I mean, if I say I ever knew, what's that mean?

You know what I mean, like what does that mean?

He would do house calls and he would help people and like you said, a lot of people have spoken about the impact he's had on their life.

He built 2 hospitals and he built a hospital before the Verrazano Bridge in New York, connecting Brooklyn to Staten Island.

And he built it so people could get proper hospital care they couldn't afford it, period.

And everybody looked at him as eccentric.

Yeah, because he would literally sneak patients, not sneak them in, he was Dr.

Atlas, he could do what he wanted to a certain extent, but he would bring patients in without administering, putting through administration, so there was no charge because they didn't have anything.

I remember being, my only way to be with my father was to go on house calls or to go to the door.

There's no, you know, and so I went on house calls with him.

And he did house calls by the way till he was 80.

And 3 dollars, I mean it was better than McDonald's.

$3, and you got medicine, you got everything.

But he used to, right around the holidays, there was just certain things that I didn't understand, but I understood later, where we would just drive certain areas, and he just, all of a sudden, opened his door, and he would pick up things, and you know, I'm 10 years old.

You know, move over, move over, you know.

Yeah, whatever he can fit in, 3, 4, you know, whatever it was.

And then he took him to the hospital, dropped him off.

So, you know, I would ask questions after it was all over with.

So he said, yeah, and he tried to explain things to me.

You know, he would try, he didn't talk much unless you asked him something.

And you know, don't talk unless someone asks

And he explained to me that, he said, and said, well, why are you putting him in the hospital?

And of course, the sickness was through alcoholics.

But why you put him, it wasn't an alcohol rehab, so why you put him, and it wasn't for the purpose to dry out, he wasn't trying to cure them.

Let's put that before we anointed him for sainthood, by Teddy Atlas, So I was like, we finally get to the point.

Well, the holidays are good for certain people and bad for others.

And it was always before the holidays, it was before Christmas or whatever.

And he said, because they remind people, certain people, of what they don't have.

That other people enjoy the holidays because of what they have, family, you know, whatever.

Yeah, and then, I don't remember, because he didn't use the word suicide, but I got it.

Like he basically, I forget how he said it, but like I just got it.

But I just got it like, so they don't hurt themselves.

I don't think he ever articulated, I don't think he ever verbalized that, but yeah, they don't hurt themselves.

Well, just basically, they're gonna be around people.

And it's gonna be for 3 days, 2, 3 days, whatever.

So, the funny thing is, as a 10-year-old, I wanted to be connected to him.

When he used to drop them off, he would take them, get them in, right?

And then the thing that I know again, he didn't say none, but you notice things.

You don't notice nothing if you don't care.

But if you care, if it's important, you notice.

I loved Mickey Mantle, I loved Willie Mays, I loved Muhammad Ali.

I never, ever connected in my mind as heroes, Never.

My father, I didn't connect it that way, but he...

Looking back, he was my first connection to a hero.

Did the 2 of you ever talk about how much you love each other?

The greatest memory I have my father showing me love was we were down in Florida at an airport and I was born in Miami, don't ask me if I was passing through and the rest of my family's born in New York, stand out.

And so I was supposed to go back home, right?

And I wanted to stay with my mother for whatever reason.

And so he, you know, he of course conceded to it.

And very quiet, very, and there's a man who never showed emotion to anyone.

All of a sudden, He just turned and kissed me on the forehead and left.

It made me realize that some of the deals I used to make for God weren't realistic.

When I was a kid, I used to make deals with God, let me die before my father.

And then you get older, you have kids, you're blessed.

Why did you make that deal, you know what I mean?

I miss him in moments when I'd like to know what to do.

And I remember when I would drive with him on the house calls, he didn't listen to music.

He was a guy, he read books to his, when he got older, he read books to blood vessels broken his eyes.

I mean, I cheated on a couple book reports because I didn't do the reading of the book the night before.

I had a freaking book report to put in that.

I got a book report to do on the war of Stalingrad.

And who the freak could tell you where you get an A?

Told me generals, he told me times, he told me strategy, he told me about the winter that came and destroyed the Germans and the Soviets were tougher than the Germans and the Germans picked on the wrong opponent.

They made a mistake with picking the opponent.

And so when we would be driving in the car, my father would be in a trance.

He wasn't even here on the radio no more.

And just so we're driving I said I want to know.

So I said, Dad what do you think when you're basically in this place that I know you're somewhere.

I gotta ask you, when did you discover boxing?

When did you first fall in love with boxing?

I was a stupid, violent kid that was angry, Not exactly know why I was angry.

I'd fit in real good in today's society because there's a lot of angry kids out there that I don't think they know why they're angry.

I was just out there getting in fights, and I got this stupid thing from that.

Can you tell the story of how you got that?

I was just running around doing stupid things, bad things.

I hurt people, some people physically, but I hurt my family.

You know, that's a good way of, you know, alibiing it.

You know, but if at some point the truth usually finds its way, I'd like it to look like I was just hurt myself, but I wasn't, obviously.

So I was just out on the streets with kids that didn't grow up in the neighborhood I grew up.

I grew up in a neighborhood where my father was a doctor.

The funny thing was down the hill was a very tough neighborhood called Stapleton and most of the people down there on the corners wished they could get up the hill and I wished I could get down the hill.

So I went down the hill and I hung out with all these friends that became lifelong friends.

And I gravitated to that because I figured out later a little bit, but I wanted family.

My father was a doctor, he didn't have time for nothing but being a doctor.

I think when you're great at something, you sacrifice something too.

When you're really great at something, So great that maybe God made you great and you're too great for your own good.

And I don't know, it took me to these stupid, dangerous places.

Dangerous for me, but dangerous for other people too because I got to the point where I was doing robberies on the street, I was fighting everybody, and you know what the most dangerous part about it was?

And I came to this realization on my own, all by myself.

I figured out, I was really as dangerous, you know these kids from the projects, some of them, they got nothing.

First of all, I learned you don't have to be poor to be poor.

You don't have to be deprived of certain things to be deprived.

Because at least to think you're deprived.

And I was poor in a way that I didn't have the only thing I wanted to have, him.

So Here I am where I'm out there doing these things and what made me more, I was more dangerous than some of these psychopaths.

Well, I was a psychopath too, I guess, the way I was behaving, but some of these psychopaths that really had nothing, you know, really would, you know, they obviously would kill you.

I was dangerous in the, almost in the same way, but for a different reason.

I know it's ridiculous what I'm about to tell you, but I figured it out, because I felt it.

I thought I had a right because it was gonna get me my father back.

I mean, you're a scientist, you couldn't figure this 1 out because all the people that had them were injured people, fractured people, screwed up people in some ways, but hurt, damaged people.

So I was on a crusade, really, a righteous crusade where I thought it was okay.

I had permission to do these terrible things, quite frankly, and to fight everyone.

And then it came almost to a crash, doing all that, winding up in Rikers Island like an idiot.

Not understanding the damage I did to this poor man that, you know, he was a great doctor and he's gotta see his son and hear about, you know what I mean?

I was out on that day, you know, with the guys that I grew up with now, you know, the guys from the projects, as I described, and I was with 1 of them, he's dead now.

So, I was with him and we were in a neighborhood, the neighborhood we grew up in, that I hung out in, and he grew up in, Billy.

And we got into a thing where somebody cut us off, we cut them off, jumped out to fight.

And it turned out there's like 5 or 6 of them and 2 of us.

And, you know, we fought, you know, right on the side, right there.

Only about a block from where I used to hang out.

And right in front of like a Spanish bodega.

And it really does happen in slow motion.

I actually saw the guys, fighting the guys that I had to fight.

And then all of a sudden I was able to get 1 guy out of the way a little bit and I really I noticed the guy go into his pocket and I knew why he was going in his pocket you know And when he came out of his pocket, I knew what it was right away.

It was weird because in the neighborhood, guys used to hang out, they were into this, you know, they get into fads, like, right on the streets.

And they were into, at that time, they were into this cheap knife, but it was, they thought it was, well, we thought it was cool.

And the cool thing, whatever, was that you could flick it.

You could learn, and I learned how to flick, but I never carried a knife.

But when my friends would have it, I would just, you learn how you could flick it open.

Not a switchblade, but flick it with your wrist.

And I was like, here I am in the middle of this freaking fight, and all of a sudden, oh, it's a double 07, you know?

And so, I'm like, you gotta make a decision, you know?

And I gotta split, I can either not do nothing, which didn't seem like a great option.

Because you gotta live with yourself afterwards and that's more difficult to live with than whatever it is at that second because that don't go away.

It's none to do with being brave, really.

It's got to do with just common sense in life.

That for me, whatever you're dealing with, it's over, it's done, like okay, deal with it.

But you do that, you know, that other thing, you can't.

Memory of you being, let's say, a coward in that moment, that never ends.

The only thing I had at that point in my life, in my stupid mind, was a reputation that I would stand up to certain things.

That was like, and that for me was worth something, whatever, because I didn't feel any worth to anything else.

That was the only thing I felt a connection of worth to, so.

I stood my ground, but I actually, things do slow down, they do.

And I actually said, it's a double 7, he's gotta flick it.

But he's gotta flick it, I get a split second, either, like I said, either I do nothing, whatever, or I get to him before he gets it flicked.

I went to get to him before he got flicked.

Just as I got close to him, I did him a favor.

Because I cooperated with him, I went right to him.

And just as I, he practiced more than I did with the 007, apparently.

Because he was like, womp, womp, womp, womp.

It was warm and gooey and I was like, I don't know what this means but I don't wanna know.

No, you know what I thought about him was, you don't know who anyone is until they're tested.

He used to say, I remember 1 time, Cush was obviously a 17, 18 year old kid up there, and you know, thought I was whatever I thought I was.

Because you know, I was on the street hanging out with a hundred kids at night sometimes on the street corner.

So I was like, I don't know too many people that hung out with a hundred kids on the street, on a corner on a Friday, Saturday night.

And I was like, yeah, I got a lot of friends.

He said, how about if I told you, you might not have any?

And he goes, and then he just started this thing.

Because you don't know about nobody till they're tested.

He goes, you know nothing until you know.

Until something happens to test if they were really a friend.

And he told me this story about a guy, a guy came to him and he was upset.

He goes, I'm upset because I just lost a friend.

After 20 years of friendship, we're not friends no more.

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Teddy Atlas: Mike Tyson, Cus D'Amato, Boxing, Loyalty, Fear & Greatness | Lex Fridman Podcast #406