Ryan Hall is an American black belt and instructor in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and a professional mixed martial artist currently competing in the featherweight division of the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC). He is known for a number of competitive achievements, ranging from Mundial and ADCC victories to dozens of Grapplers Quest championships. He is the winner of The Ultimate Fighter Season 22. He holds notable victories over former UFC Lightweight and Welterweight Champion BJ Penn, former UFC Lightweight Title challenger Gray Maynard and Artem Lobov.

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You have been both a supporter and a critic of competition.

What do you think is the value of competition for a martial artist?

competition is in that it teaches you the true purpose of martial arts.

And again, the true purpose of martial arts is being able to defend yourself and whatnot and all of these other things in real life, yes, because you, let's say you win the ADCC gold medal, but, you know, you get slapped around by someone bigger and stronger than you at a bar.

That, people will talk about how sweet that gold medal is, but for the rest of your life, it'll feel pretty hollow.

That wouldn't, you know, That's not what we're looking for.

But what I'm talking about, I guess, is what I believe competition develops if approached properly is proper focus, proper dedication.

Because anytime you have a very defined goal and strong opposition, it will force you to be better, period.

The better your opposition is, If you focus and you take what you're doing seriously, the better you become, period.

People are better wrestlers today than they once were.

People are better basketball players today than they once were.

Military is better now than it was in the past because of all of the competition that has existed over the course of time.

And if you go out in competition, if you go out and just kind of bullshit it, if you're like, oh,

Like that's a cowardly way to approach competition.

That doesn't teach you to really do the right things.

And the same thing, not properly preparing.

Even if you win, that was a cowardly way to approach it because you intentionally left yourself an out which was if I win oh man I'm talented and blah-de-blah and if I lose it's well you know I mean I could I didn't really train that hard well if that's the case then you shouldn't have been out there win lose or draw I don't care if I've got a student that I think is gonna win gold at the World Championships and he or she does not train properly ahead of time, I

if they go I will send them off the team.

You know and hey they can do what they want, they're a grown adult, I'm not the boss

of them but I am the boss of my team and the boss of my gym and that's not how we conduct ourselves and it has way less to do about the physical

Because proper preparation and proper focus and dedication over the long haul yields positive results.

But most importantly, it's about are we conducting ourselves in an honorable and respectable manner.

So I believe that competition really teaches us that Because in the room, you know, there's always like, oh, it was practice.

Oh, I was kind of this, that happened today.

The other thing, when you go to competition, everyone is, that's on, everyone is on that day because everyone is trained for that specific moment and we'll see what happens.

So you get the most honesty out of a time like that.

And the higher the level, the better it gets, provided that there's not a lot of cheating.

But regardless, from an athletic performance perspective, it is the most honest thing, because, and it's the toughest as well, because It takes courage and it takes some heart to really properly prepare and put it on

the line because you're risking horrible disappointment.

I've prepared so hard before and tried so hard and I've won and I've prepared other times and I've tried so hard

It doesn't hurt nearly as much if you kind of half-ass it because you didn't put that much into it.

But again, that's how a coward approaches things.

If you have, if you're going to conduct yourself the right way, you prepare properly, you train hard and then win, lose or draw, you deal with the results.

And that's what I believe is the real benefit of competition if approached properly.

Do you admire somebody who sacrifices, you know, like 10, 20 years of their life in that singular pursuit of competition towards a gold medal at the Olympics, say, which is most of the Olympians do.

I mean, I admire anyone that's willing to sacrifice and willing to work hard in any area of life actually a book that I'm reading Again that I really really like is a dune.

It's a Analytics, I'm kind of like sci-fi nerding out on everybody But basically, you know 1 of the things that you know 1 of the 1 of the you know things that the the author was gonna Frank Herbert and it's why the regard is 1 of the you know greatest science fiction novels ever if not the preeminent But anyway, 1 of the things he said, you know, is If you search for freedom, you actually end up becoming a slave to your own desires, ironically.

And if you search for discipline, you find liberty because you're able to make yourself do what you want in the long run.

all the time and screw you, dad, I'm going

You end up getting into a bunch of nonsense, but anyone that's able, and again, this doesn't matter.

It could be in any area of human endeavor, any area of life.

It could be parenting, it could be military, it could be athletics, it could be business, It could be school, it could be anything.

But as long as you're making an incredibly large commitment, I have an immense amount of respect for the level of dedication and the level of commitment and the level of risk that you're taking emotionally, psychologically, because hey, like you said, you worked 20 years, you get that gold medal.

But there's other people that worked 20 years and got the silver.

most people that think they work hard do not.

How do you know that if you're working hard or not?

Most people would press a button, in my experience, you know, they would prefer to look like the thing than be the thing.

And you know, that's fine, but it really, I think Sun Tzu said it, it's like, victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price, and there is a price.

And now that doesn't guarantee that if you pay the price, that you will have victory, but you guarantee, but I mean, from a physical perspective, but you will have the moral victory regardless because you will have learned discipline.

You will have shown not only to others, forget others, you do it not for others, but for yourself.

You show that you are the master of your own mind and of your own body and of your own circumstance and you can discipline yourself and focus and you deny yourself certain things in the pursuit of something that is valuable to you.

And that is incredibly useful in any area of life.

And that's, I mean, not shocking to me why the same reason that you'll see guys that were, you know, like high level military, like kind of big dogs in the SF world get hired by, let's say for instance, a fortune 500 company.

Because what would they know about business?

Because that level of focus and dedicate, like you don't get to that level of ability in something by accident.

And that's what I think, you know, like again, the value of competition and what they do competition only, it's as serious as it gets, you know, because if you don't get the gold medal, you may not walk out of it.

But basically, I have an immense amount of respect for anyone that is willing and able to, over the long haul, put that time in.

But I have to, trying hard doesn't mean just getting on an air done bike and walking off the mat or having to be carried off the mat.

It means thinking, approaching, reassessing, reevaluating, saying how could I be better?

And also it takes a lot of times, because let's say I think I'm doing well, but I have to say, hey Lex, no matter how well I believe, I look at myself, I'm still biased.

I'm gonna find other people that I respect and people that I think can tell me, and I'm gonna ask them.

And then I'm gonna have the courage to listen to them and not just dismiss what they're saying out of hand.

And if you're doing those things, then I believe that

a lot of times you're working hard, but I know plenty of

that have been training for 15 years that frankly suck.

And there's plenty of people that have been training for 4 that are pretty dang good, you know?

And again, are they the best person that's been training for 4 years?

but they could be really, really, really good because they understand how to be directed and how to focus.

And I believe, and this is something I've discussed before with some other friends of mine, some of whom are at a very high level of MMA, others that are at a high level of jiu-jitsu wrestling or whatever.

Look at guys like Randy Couture, guys like Rick Hawn.

They started MMA when they were like 32 and yet they got to the top.

Maybe they weren't always champion, but they were fricking good.

Because their 26 year old self would be scary.

But you know, like, hey, they know what it is to be dedicated and work hard.

Because again, they're Olympians, like you said, on a level that a regular person has no concept of.

So I think that that is ultimately the skill.

It's not the, oh man, this person's dangerous because he's got good judo or good wrestling.

No, this person is dangerous because he or she knows how to work their ass off and be focused on a level that most people can't comprehend.

And that's what produces success in any area of life, in my opinion.

Yeah, and be brutally honest with yourself at all times.

I think it's like the price of looking inward, you know, objectively is that you're not going to like what you see a lot, you know?

Because even if you're like, oh man, I'm 90% the way I want to be.

It's like, if you are going to take that next step, in my opinion, you're going to focus on the 10% because it's like, oh man, we're doing a lot of things good.

And that's a little bit less fun, but in the long run, I think it's what's going to drive you to a higher level.

But at the same time, I think it's what makes a lot of people that are like that a little bit neurotic and nutty by a normal standard.

But again, you show me someone that's super well adjusted and I'll show


Speaker 0: You have been both a supporter and a critic of competition. What do you think is the value of competition for a martial artist?

Speaker 1: I believe that the value of

Speaker 2: competition is in that it teaches you the true purpose of martial arts. And again, the true purpose of martial arts is being able to defend yourself and whatnot and all of these other things in real life, yes, because you, let's say you win the ADCC gold medal, but, you know, you get slapped around by someone bigger and stronger than you at a bar. That, people will talk about how sweet that gold medal is, but for the rest of your life, it'll feel pretty hollow. That wouldn't, you know, That's not what we're looking for. But what I'm talking about, I guess, is what I believe competition develops if approached properly is proper focus, proper dedication.

Because anytime you have a very defined goal and strong opposition, it will force you to be better, period. The better your opposition is, If you focus and you take what you're doing seriously, the better you become, period. People are better wrestlers today than they once were. People are better basketball players today than they once were. Military is better now than it was in the past because of all of the competition that has existed over the course of time.

And if you go out in competition, if you go out and just kind of bullshit it, if you're like, oh,

Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out and see how

Speaker 2: it happens. Like that's a cowardly way to approach competition. And that gets you nothing. That doesn't teach you to really do the right things. And the same thing, not properly preparing.

Even if you win, that was a cowardly way to approach it because you intentionally left yourself an out which was if I win oh man I'm talented and blah-de-blah and if I lose it's well you know I mean I could I didn't really train that hard well if that's the case then you shouldn't have been out there win lose or draw I don't care if I've got a student that I think is gonna win gold at the World Championships and he or she does not train properly ahead of time, I

Speaker 1: will not allow them to go and

Speaker 2: if they go I will send them off the team.

Speaker 1: You know and hey they can do what they want, they're a grown adult, I'm not the boss

Speaker 2: of them but I am the boss of my team and the boss of my gym and that's not how we conduct ourselves and it has way less to do about the physical

Speaker 1: you know the result than

Speaker 2: it does about the proper preparation. Because proper preparation and proper focus and dedication over the long haul yields positive results. But most importantly, it's about are we conducting ourselves in an honorable and respectable manner. So I believe that competition really teaches us that Because in the room, you know, there's always like, oh, it was practice. Oh, I was kind of this, that happened today.

The other thing, when you go to competition, everyone is, that's on, everyone is on that day because everyone is trained for that specific moment and we'll see what happens. So you get the most honesty out of a time like that. And the higher the level, the better it gets, provided that there's not a lot of cheating. But regardless, from an athletic performance perspective, it is the most honest thing, because, and it's the toughest as well, because It takes courage and it takes some heart to really properly prepare and put it on

Speaker 1: the line because you're risking horrible disappointment. I've prepared so hard before and tried so hard and I've won and I've prepared other times and I've tried so hard

Speaker 2: and I've failed and it hurts. It really hurts. It doesn't hurt nearly as much if you kind of half-ass it because you didn't put that much into it. But again, that's how a coward approaches things. If you have, if you're going to conduct yourself the right way, you prepare properly, you train hard and then win, lose or draw, you deal with the results.

And that's what I believe is the real benefit of competition if approached properly.

Speaker 0: Do you admire somebody who sacrifices, you know, like 10, 20 years of their life in that singular pursuit of competition towards a gold medal at the Olympics, say, which is most of the Olympians do.

Speaker 2: Goodness, absolutely. I mean, I admire anyone that's willing to sacrifice and willing to work hard in any area of life actually a book that I'm reading Again that I really really like is a dune. It's a Analytics, I'm kind of like sci-fi nerding out on everybody But basically, you know 1 of the things that you know 1 of the 1 of the you know things that the the author was gonna Frank Herbert and it's why the regard is 1 of the you know greatest science fiction novels ever if not the preeminent But anyway, 1 of the things he said, you know, is If you search for freedom, you actually end up becoming a slave to your own desires, ironically. And if you search for discipline, you find liberty because you're able to make yourself do what you want in the long run. Whereas if I'm like, oh, I'm going

Speaker 1: to do whatever I want

Speaker 2: all the time and screw you, dad, I'm going

Speaker 1: to do what I want. And that's kind

Speaker 2: of like a teenager type attitude. You end up getting into a bunch of nonsense, but anyone that's able, and again, this doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that it's athletic. It could be in any area of human endeavor, any area of life. It could be parenting, it could be military, it could be athletics, it could be business, It could be school, it could be anything.

But as long as you're making an incredibly large commitment, I have an immense amount of respect for the level of dedication and the level of commitment and the level of risk that you're taking emotionally, psychologically, because hey, like you said, you worked 20 years, you get that gold medal. But there's other people that worked 20 years and got the silver.

Speaker 0: Most people. Most. Oh,

Speaker 1: this is good. Yeah. Now,

Speaker 2: most people that think they work hard do not.

Speaker 0: How do you know that if you're working hard or not?

Speaker 1: I think you know, but most people are

Speaker 2: not very honest with themselves. Most people would press a button, in my experience, you know, they would prefer to look like the thing than be the thing. And you know, that's fine, but it really, I think Sun Tzu said it, it's like, victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price, and there is a price. And now that doesn't guarantee that if you pay the price, that you will have victory, but you guarantee, but I mean, from a physical perspective, but you will have the moral victory regardless because you will have learned discipline. You will have shown not only to others, forget others, you do it not for others, but for yourself.

You show that you are the master of your own mind and of your own body and of your own circumstance and you can discipline yourself and focus and you deny yourself certain things in the pursuit of something that is valuable to you. And that is incredibly useful in any area of life. And that's, I mean, not shocking to me why the same reason that you'll see guys that were, you know, like high level military, like kind of big dogs in the SF world get hired by, let's say for instance, a fortune 500 company. Because what would they know about business? Nothing, but also everything.

Because that level of focus and dedicate, like you don't get to that level of ability in something by accident. And that's what I think, you know, like again, the value of competition and what they do competition only, it's as serious as it gets, you know, because if you don't get the gold medal, you may not walk out of it. But basically, I have an immense amount of respect for anyone that is willing and able to, over the long haul, put that time in. But I have to, trying hard doesn't mean just getting on an air done bike and walking off the mat or having to be carried off the mat. It means thinking, approaching, reassessing, reevaluating, saying how could I be better?

And it takes honest self-analysis. And also it takes a lot of times, because let's say I think I'm doing well, but I have to say, hey Lex, no matter how well I believe, I look at myself, I'm still biased. I'm still looking at myself. What should I be doing better? I'm gonna find other people that I respect and people that I think can tell me, and I'm gonna ask them.

And then I'm gonna have the courage to listen to them and not just dismiss what they're saying out of hand. And if you're doing those things, then I believe that

Speaker 1: a lot of times you're working hard, but I know plenty of

Speaker 2: people that come in. It's just

Speaker 1: like in Jiu-Jitsu. There's plenty of people

Speaker 2: that have been training for 15 years that frankly suck. And there's plenty of people that have been training for 4 that are pretty dang good, you know? And again, are they the best person that's been training for 4 years? It's still compared to

Speaker 1: like Cabrini, not that good,

Speaker 2: but they could be really, really, really good because they understand how to be directed and how to focus. And I believe, and this is something I've discussed before with some other friends of mine, some of whom are at a very high level of MMA, others that are at a high level of jiu-jitsu wrestling or whatever. Look at guys like Randy Couture, guys like Rick Hawn. They're on their second career. They started MMA when they were like 32 and yet they got to the top.

Maybe they weren't always champion, but they were fricking good. Why? Because their 26 year old self would be scary. But you know, like, hey, they know what it is to be dedicated and work hard. Because again, they're Olympians, like you said, on a level that a regular person has no concept of.

So I think that that is ultimately the skill. It's not the, oh man, this person's dangerous because he's got good judo or good wrestling. No, this person is dangerous because he or she knows how to work their ass off and be focused on a level that most people can't comprehend. And that's what produces success in any area of life, in my opinion.

Speaker 0: Yeah, and be brutally honest with yourself at all times.

Speaker 2: And it stings sometimes, you know? I think it's like the price of looking inward, you know, objectively is that you're not going to like what you see a lot, you know? Because even if you're like, oh man, I'm 90% the way I want to be. It's like, if you are going to take that next step, in my opinion, you're going to focus on the 10% because it's like, oh man, we're doing a lot of things good. Yeah, who

Speaker 1: gives a shit? Let's talk about what we

Speaker 2: need to improve on, you know? And that's a little bit less fun, but in the long run, I think it's what's going to drive you to a higher level. But at the same time, I think it's what makes a lot of people that are like that a little bit neurotic and nutty by a normal standard. But again, you show me someone that's super well adjusted and I'll show

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Ryan Hall: Value of Competition | Take It Uneasy Podcast