Full episode with Whitney Cummings (Dec 2019): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-3kw5BEKB8
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Main channel (Lex Fridman): https://www.youtube.com/lexfridman
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Whitney Cummings is a stand-up comedian, actor, producer, writer, director, and the host of a new podcast called Good for You. Her most recent Netflix special called "Can I Touch It?" features in part a robot, she affectionately named Bearclaw, that is designed to be visually a replica of Whitney. It's exciting for me to see one of my favorite comedians explore the social aspects of robotics and AI in our society. She also has some fascinating ideas about human behavior, psychology, and neurology, some of which she explores in her book called "I'm Fine...And Other Lies."

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You've done actually quite, done a lot of thinking and talking about neurology, just kind of look at human behavior through the lens of looking at how our actually chemically our brain works.

So what, first of all, why did you connect with that idea and how has your view of the world changed by considering the brain is just a machine?

You know, I know it probably sounds really nihilistic, but for me It's very liberating to know a lot about neurochemicals because you don't have to...

It's like the same thing with critics, like critical reviews.

If you believe the good, you have to believe the bad kind of thing.

You know, if you believe that your bad choices were because of your moral integrity or whatever, you have to believe you're good ones.

I just think there's something really liberating in going like, oh, that was just adrenaline.

I just said that thing because I was adrenalized and I was scared.

And my amygdala was activated and that's why I said you're an asshole and get out.

And that's, you know, I think, I just think it's important to delineate what's nature and what's nurture, what is your choice and what is just your brain trying to keep you safe.

I think we forget that even though we have security systems and homes and locks on our doors, that our brain for the most part is just trying to keep us safe all the time.

It's why we hold grudges, it's why we get angry, it's why we get road rage, It's why we do a lot of things.

And it's also, when I started learning about neurology, I started having so much more compassion for other people.

You know, if someone yelled at me, being like, fuck you on the road, I'd be like, okay, he's producing adrenaline right now because we're all going 65 miles an hour and our brains aren't really designed for this type of stress and he's scared.

He was scared, you know, so that really helped me to have more love for people in my everyday life instead of being in fight or flight mode.

But the, I think, more interesting answer to your question is that I've had migraines my whole life.

Like I've suffered with really intense migraines, ocular migraines, ones where my arm would go numb.

And I just started having to go to so many doctors to learn about it.

And I started learning that we don't really know that much, we know a lot, but it's wild to go into 1 of the best neurologists in the world who's like, yeah, we don't know.

It's like 1 of the worst pains you can probably have, all that stuff, and we don't know the source.

We don't know the source and there is something really fascinating about when your left arm starts going numb and you start not being able to see out of the left side of both your eyes.

And I remember when the migraines get really bad, It's like a mini stroke almost, and you're able to see words on a page, but I can't read them.

So there's something just really fascinating to me about your brain just being able to stop functioning.

And so I just wanted to learn about it, study about it.

I did all these weird alternative treatments.

I got this piercing in here that actually works.

So when both of my parents had strokes, I became sort of the person who had to decide what was gonna happen with their recovery, which is just a wild thing to have to deal with at 28 years old when it happened.

I started spending basically all day every day in ICUs with neurologists learning about what happened to my dad's brain and why he can't move his left arm, but he can move his right leg, but he can't see out of the, you know.

And then my mom had another stroke, in a different part of the brain.

So I started having to learn what parts of the brain did what, and so that I wouldn't take their behavior so personally, and so that I would be able to manage my expectations in terms of their recovery.

So my mom, because it affected a lot of her frontal lobe, changed a lot as a person.

She was way more emotional, she was way more micromanaged, she was forgetting certain things, so...

It broke my heart less when I was able to know, oh, yeah, well, the stroke hit this part of the brain and that's the 1 that's responsible for short-term memory and that's responsible for long-term memory, da-da-da.

And then my brother just got something called viral encephalitis, which is an infection inside the brain.

So it was kind of wild that I was able to go, oh, I know exactly what's happening here.

So that's allows you to have some more compassion for the struggles that people have.

But does it take away some of the magic for some of the, from the some of the more positive experiences of life?

Sometimes and I don't, I don't, I'm such a control addict that, you know, I think our biggest, someone like me, my biggest dream is to know why someone's doing it.

It's just trying to figure out why, or that's what writing is, that's what acting is, that's what performing is.

It's trying to figure out why someone would do something.

As an actor, you get a piece of, you know, material, and you go, this person, why would he say that?

So, I think neurology is, if you're trying to figure out human motives and why people do what they do, It'd be crazy not to understand how neurochemicals motivate us.

I also have a lot of addiction in my family and hardcore drug addiction and mental illness.

And in order to cope with it, you really have to understand it.

Borderline personality disorder, schizophrenia, and drug addiction.

So I have a lot of people I love that suffer from drug addiction and alcoholism.

And the first thing they started teaching you is it's not a choice.

These people's dopamine receptors don't hold dopamine the same ways yours do.

And that really helped me to navigate loving people that were addicted to substances.

I wanna be careful with this question, but how much?

No, is how much control, how much, despite the chemical imbalances or the biological limitations that each of our individual brains have, how much mind over matter is there?

So through things that I've known people with clinical depression, and so it's always a touchy subject to say how much they can really help it.

What can you, yeah, what can you, because you've talked about codependency, you've talked about issues that you're struggled through, and nevertheless you choose to take a journey of healing and so on, so that's your choice, that's your actions.

So how much can you do to help fight the limitations of the neurochemicals in your brain?

That's such an interesting question and I don't think I'm at all qualified to answer it, but I'll say what I do know.

And really quick, just the definition of codependency, I think a lot of people think of codependency as like 2 people that can't stop hanging out, you know, or like, you know, that's not totally off, but I think for the most part, my favorite definition of codependency is the inability to tolerate the discomfort of others.

You grow up in an alcoholic home, you grow up around mental illness, you grow up in chaos, you have a parent that's a narcissist, you basically are wired to just, people, please, worry about others, be perfect, walk on eggshells, shape-shift to accommodate other people.

So, codependence is a very active, wiring issue that, you know, doesn't just affect your romantic relationships, it affects you being a boss, it affects you in the world online.

You get 1 negative comment and it throws you for 2 weeks.

It also is linked to eating disorders and other kinds of addictions.

And I think a lot of people sometimes only think that it's in a romantic relationship.

And also 1 of the reasons I love the idea of robots so much, because you don't have to walk on eggshells around them, you don't have to worry, they're gonna get mad at you yet.

But you there's no codependence are hypersensitive to the needs and moods of others.

It's depleting just a well, 1 conversation about where we're gonna go to dinner is like, do you wanna go get Chinese food?

Well, no, I didn't mean to, and it's just like, that codependence live in this everything means something and humans can be very emotionally exhausting.

It's just this, it's a hypersensitivity that can be incredibly time consuming, which is why I love the idea of robots.

Even I've had a hard time running TV shows and stuff because even asking someone to do something, I don't want to come off like a bitch.

I'm very concerned about what other people think of me, how I'm perceived, which is why I think robots will be very beneficial for codependency.

By the way, just a real quick tangent, that skill or flaw, whatever you want to call it, is actually really useful for, if you ever do start your own podcast for interviewing, because you're now kind of obsessed about the mindset of others.

And it makes you a good sort of listener and talker with.

Talked about, Terry Gross talked about having that.

She worries about other people's feelings.

I mean, you have to put yourself in the mind of the person you're speaking with.

Yes, oh, I see, just in terms of, yeah, I am starting a podcast, and The reason I haven't is because I'm codependent and I'm too worried it's not gonna be perfect.

So a big codependent adage is perfectionism leads to procrastination which leads to paralysis.

So how do you, sorry to take a million tangents, how do you survive on social media?

But by the way, I took you on a tangent and didn't answer your last question about how much we can control.

I want you, yeah, we'll return it or maybe not.

Okay, guys, we can, but 1 of the things that I'm fascinated by is the first thing you learn when you go into 12-step programs or addiction recovery or any of this is, you know, genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger.

And there are certain parts of your genetics you cannot control.

I come from, you know, a lot of mental illness.

And a lot of things that maybe we don't even know yet what we can and can't because of how little we actually know about the brain.

But we also talk about the warrior spirit and there are some people that have that warrior spirit and we don't necessarily know what that engine is, whether it's you get dopamine from succeeding or achieving or martyring yourself or that tension you get from growing.

So a lot of People are like, oh, this person can edify themselves and overcome, but if you're getting attention from improving yourself, you're gonna keep wanting to do that.

So that is something that helps a lot of, in terms of changing your brain.

If you talk about changing your brain to people and talk about what you're doing to overcome set obstacles, you're gonna get more attention from them, which is gonna fire off your reward system, and then you're gonna keep doing

So this is why in any 12-step program, you go into a room and you talk about your progress, because then everyone claps for you.

And then you're more motivated to keep going.

So that's why we say you're only as sick as the secrets you keep, because if you keep things secret, there's no 1 guiding you to go in a certain direction.

We're sort of designed to get approval from the tribe or from a group of people because our brain, you know, translates it to safety.

So, you know, in that case, the tribe is a positive 1 that helps you go to the positive direction.

So that's why it's so important to go into a room and also say, hey, I wanted to use drugs today.

And you feel less alone and you feel less like you're you know Have been castigated from the pack or whatever and then you say and I do haven't you get a chip when you haven't drank for 30 Days or 60 days or whatever


Speaker 0: You've done actually quite, done a lot of thinking and talking about neurology, just kind of look at human behavior through the lens of looking at how our actually chemically our brain works. So what, first of all, why did you connect with that idea and how has your view of the world changed by considering the brain is just a machine?

Speaker 1: You know, I know it probably sounds really nihilistic, but for me It's very liberating to know a lot about neurochemicals because you don't have to... It's like the same thing with critics, like critical reviews. If you believe the good, you have to believe the bad kind of thing. You know, if you believe that your bad choices were because of your moral integrity or whatever, you have to believe you're good ones. I just think there's something really liberating in going like, oh, that was just adrenaline.

I just said that thing because I was adrenalized and I was scared. And my amygdala was activated and that's why I said you're an asshole and get out. And that's, you know, I think, I just think it's important to delineate what's nature and what's nurture, what is your choice and what is just your brain trying to keep you safe. I think we forget that even though we have security systems and homes and locks on our doors, that our brain for the most part is just trying to keep us safe all the time. It's why we hold grudges, it's why we get angry, it's why we get road rage, It's why we do a lot of things.

And it's also, when I started learning about neurology, I started having so much more compassion for other people. You know, if someone yelled at me, being like, fuck you on the road, I'd be like, okay, he's producing adrenaline right now because we're all going 65 miles an hour and our brains aren't really designed for this type of stress and he's scared. He was scared, you know, so that really helped me to have more love for people in my everyday life instead of being in fight or flight mode. But the, I think, more interesting answer to your question is that I've had migraines my whole life. Like I've suffered with really intense migraines, ocular migraines, ones where my arm would go numb.

And I just started having to go to so many doctors to learn about it. And I started learning that we don't really know that much, we know a lot, but it's wild to go into 1 of the best neurologists in the world who's like, yeah, we don't know. We don't know. We don't know. And that fascinated me.

Speaker 0: It's like 1 of the worst pains you can probably have, all that stuff, and we don't know the source.

Speaker 1: We don't know the source and there is something really fascinating about when your left arm starts going numb and you start not being able to see out of the left side of both your eyes. And I remember when the migraines get really bad, It's like a mini stroke almost, and you're able to see words on a page, but I can't read them. They just look like symbols to me. So there's something just really fascinating to me about your brain just being able to stop functioning. And so I just wanted to learn about it, study about it.

I did all these weird alternative treatments. I got this piercing in here that actually works. I've tried everything. And then both of my parents had strokes. So when both of my parents had strokes, I became sort of the person who had to decide what was gonna happen with their recovery, which is just a wild thing to have to deal with at 28 years old when it happened.

I started spending basically all day every day in ICUs with neurologists learning about what happened to my dad's brain and why he can't move his left arm, but he can move his right leg, but he can't see out of the, you know. And then my mom had another stroke, in a different part of the brain. So I started having to learn what parts of the brain did what, and so that I wouldn't take their behavior so personally, and so that I would be able to manage my expectations in terms of their recovery. So my mom, because it affected a lot of her frontal lobe, changed a lot as a person. She was way more emotional, she was way more micromanaged, she was forgetting certain things, so...

It broke my heart less when I was able to know, oh, yeah, well, the stroke hit this part of the brain and that's the 1 that's responsible for short-term memory and that's responsible for long-term memory, da-da-da. And then my brother just got something called viral encephalitis, which is an infection inside the brain. So it was kind of wild that I was able to go, oh, I know exactly what's happening here. And I know, you know, so.

Speaker 0: So that's allows you to have some more compassion for the struggles that people have. But does it take away some of the magic for some of the, from the some of the more positive experiences of life?

Speaker 1: Sometimes and I don't, I don't, I'm such a control addict that, you know, I think our biggest, someone like me, my biggest dream is to know why someone's doing it. That's what stand-up is. It's just trying to figure out why, or that's what writing is, that's what acting is, that's what performing is. It's trying to figure out why someone would do something. As an actor, you get a piece of, you know, material, and you go, this person, why would he say that?

Why would she pick up that cup? Why would she walk over here? It's really why, why, why, why. So, I think neurology is, if you're trying to figure out human motives and why people do what they do, It'd be crazy not to understand how neurochemicals motivate us. I also have a lot of addiction in my family and hardcore drug addiction and mental illness.

And in order to cope with it, you really have to understand it. Borderline personality disorder, schizophrenia, and drug addiction. So I have a lot of people I love that suffer from drug addiction and alcoholism. And the first thing they started teaching you is it's not a choice. These people's dopamine receptors don't hold dopamine the same ways yours do.

Their frontal lobe is underdeveloped. And that really helped me to navigate loving people that were addicted to substances.

Speaker 0: I wanna be careful with this question, but how much?

Speaker 1: Money do you have? How much? Can I borrow $10? Okay.

Speaker 0: No, is how much control, how much, despite the chemical imbalances or the biological limitations that each of our individual brains have, how much mind over matter is there? So through things that I've known people with clinical depression, and so it's always a touchy subject to say how much they can really help it.

Speaker 1: Very.

Speaker 0: What can you, yeah, what can you, because you've talked about codependency, you've talked about issues that you're struggled through, and nevertheless you choose to take a journey of healing and so on, so that's your choice, that's your actions. So how much can you do to help fight the limitations of the neurochemicals in your brain?

Speaker 1: That's such an interesting question and I don't think I'm at all qualified to answer it, but I'll say what I do know. And really quick, just the definition of codependency, I think a lot of people think of codependency as like 2 people that can't stop hanging out, you know, or like, you know, that's not totally off, but I think for the most part, my favorite definition of codependency is the inability to tolerate the discomfort of others. You grow up in an alcoholic home, you grow up around mental illness, you grow up in chaos, you have a parent that's a narcissist, you basically are wired to just, people, please, worry about others, be perfect, walk on eggshells, shape-shift to accommodate other people. So, codependence is a very active, wiring issue that, you know, doesn't just affect your romantic relationships, it affects you being a boss, it affects you in the world online. You get 1 negative comment and it throws you for 2 weeks.

It also is linked to eating disorders and other kinds of addictions. So it's a very big thing. And I think a lot of people sometimes only think that it's in a romantic relationship. So I always feel the need to say that. And also 1 of the reasons I love the idea of robots so much, because you don't have to walk on eggshells around them, you don't have to worry, they're gonna get mad at you yet.

But you there's no codependence are hypersensitive to the needs and moods of others. And it's very exhausting. It's depleting just a well, 1 conversation about where we're gonna go to dinner is like, do you wanna go get Chinese food? We just had Chinese food. Well, wait, are you mad?

Well, no, I didn't mean to, and it's just like, that codependence live in this everything means something and humans can be very emotionally exhausting. Why did you look at me that way? What are you thinking about? What was that? Why'd you check your phone?

It's just this, it's a hypersensitivity that can be incredibly time consuming, which is why I love the idea of robots. Just subbing in. Even I've had a hard time running TV shows and stuff because even asking someone to do something, I don't want to come off like a bitch. I'm very concerned about what other people think of me, how I'm perceived, which is why I think robots will be very beneficial for codependency.

Speaker 0: By the way, just a real quick tangent, that skill or flaw, whatever you want to call it, is actually really useful for, if you ever do start your own podcast for interviewing, because you're now kind of obsessed about the mindset of others. And it makes you a good sort of listener and talker with. So I think, what's her name from NPR? Talked about, Terry Gross talked about having that. So.

Speaker 1: I don't feel like she has that at all. Was. What?

Speaker 0: But I.

Speaker 1: She worries about other people's feelings.

Speaker 0: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: Oh, I don't get that at all.

Speaker 0: I mean, you have to put yourself in the mind of the person you're speaking with.

Speaker 1: Yes, oh, I see, just in terms of, yeah, I am starting a podcast, and The reason I haven't is because I'm codependent and I'm too worried it's not gonna be perfect. So a big codependent adage is perfectionism leads to procrastination which leads to paralysis.

Speaker 0: So how do you, sorry to take a million tangents, how do you survive on social media? Because you're exceptionally active.

Speaker 1: But by the way, I took you on a tangent and didn't answer your last question about how much we can control.

Speaker 0: I want you, yeah, we'll return it or maybe not. The answer is we can't.

Speaker 1: Now as a codependent, I'm worried. Okay, guys, we can, but 1 of the things that I'm fascinated by is the first thing you learn when you go into 12-step programs or addiction recovery or any of this is, you know, genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger. And there are certain parts of your genetics you cannot control. I come from a lot of alcoholism. I come from, you know, a lot of mental illness.

There's certain things I cannot control. And a lot of things that maybe we don't even know yet what we can and can't because of how little we actually know about the brain. But we also talk about the warrior spirit and there are some people that have that warrior spirit and we don't necessarily know what that engine is, whether it's you get dopamine from succeeding or achieving or martyring yourself or that tension you get from growing. So a lot of People are like, oh, this person can edify themselves and overcome, but if you're getting attention from improving yourself, you're gonna keep wanting to do that. So that is something that helps a lot of, in terms of changing your brain.

If you talk about changing your brain to people and talk about what you're doing to overcome set obstacles, you're gonna get more attention from them, which is gonna fire off your reward system, and then you're gonna keep doing

Speaker 0: it. So you can leverage that momentum.

Speaker 1: So this is why in any 12-step program, you go into a room and you talk about your progress, because then everyone claps for you. And then you're more motivated to keep going. So that's why we say you're only as sick as the secrets you keep, because if you keep things secret, there's no 1 guiding you to go in a certain direction. It's based on, right? We're sort of designed to get approval from the tribe or from a group of people because our brain, you know, translates it to safety.

Speaker 0: So, you know, in that case, the tribe is a positive 1 that helps you go to the positive direction.

Speaker 1: So that's why it's so important to go into a room and also say, hey, I wanted to use drugs today. And people go, they go, me too. And you feel less alone and you feel less like you're you know Have been castigated from the pack or whatever and then you say and I do haven't you get a chip when you haven't drank for 30 Days or 60 days or whatever

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Whitney Cummings: Neurology and Mind over Matter | AI Podcast Clips