Taken from JRE #1906 w/David Goggins:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/69QtiFgM7HP4mK2yZPKiut?si=6ce8e42d7aeb4710

People think that my knees are bad from a lot of running, and they're wrong.

I wasn't born with some great body alignment, some great, you know, I have sickle cell, I have all kinds of shit.

I have all kinds of health issues, you know, all kind of, I'm fucked up.

And the choice was, you know, growing up, you know, okay, this hurts, that hurts.

Or we can see how far we can push the human body.

So on that journey, as I started getting more and more into my mind, I started realizing that while, what I'm capable of doing, my mind got stronger.

So the pain in my knees, while it sucked, I've been doing it for so long.

Stop, and I call it like, stop feeling sorry for yourself, But you sometimes have to ignore your feelings.

No, so it's like for me I I made decision and my decision was to be the best person I could and I basically a lot more as I wake up and say fuck your feelings and that doesn't mean like you know don't take it literally fuck your feelings but sometimes you have to go Beyond what you're feeling and my knees were fucked, but guess what I wanted to run and I knew that okay You can get knee replacements this and that like I said, it wasn't because of I ran too much people I was gonna sell me you ran so much so you fucked up your body, you know You don't want to be like David Goggins.

is Look at the fact that there's 0 space Between those bones.

from the top from your your your tibia to your femur.

There's 0 space It's just kneecap covering 2 bones that are rubbing against each other.

This was after surgery, where they had to cut your knee, slice your shin, like, in half, and then take a chunk out of it because it had deformed so much from you running with bone on bone, that it was starting to, like, swell out in 1 direction.

it was changing the alignment of your leg.

This right here has been going on for a long time So and it got to a point where it's like, okay, I'm done And that's the play that's in there right now.

So as you see the wedge That part there in the bone that's opened up.

so they to cut it realign it and then Now the alignments better, but this is now about 17 months ago 17 18 months ago when this happened So

can I get some screws that fit go back to that?

no, I don't well I feel the plate every single time I move Yeah, so everything so cuz it's like connected to the hamstring So whenever I fucking whenever I move that plate is very irritating.

So every step, even like when I walk, when I run, it's just, it's this very irritating thing.

And then you gotta wait for so long for that leg to start getting back into place And if you see that other picture I sent of the foam my my foam leg that put my hand in I think Jennifer sent it to you Jamie with the foam leg.

So like this swelling in that leg Was fucking nuts.

you showed it to me in Vegas Yeah, you were sticking your thumb into your

Yeah, so it was it was pretty nuts But you know once again, It's just things you things I was willing to endure To get yeah, right there

so when the doctor Said this to you, and he he said look.

This is how fucked up your knee is mm-hmm.

basically I had 2 options so I went to the first guy had the surgery done That's in the book.

I talked about that But then the second guy so after the first surgery I was done,

No, so this is like back in Looking at 2000 so me and Cameron this is recently so I didn't have any surgery going through buds

So I went through in 2001 I fucked it 2000 2001 whatever was I messed up my leg real bad and hell we kept on going on it just kept on going what did

it was like I fucked it up somehow like running or whatever I have it and can't hurt me but it was I think the boat I fell it twisted but over a period of time it's got worse and worse and worse.

So I was getting like tore at all shots every day.

And then this got worse, but I'm like, fuck it, I'm good.

So I kept going on it, so it kind of healed all fucked up.

So just kept going, kept going, kept going.

Years later, years later, just kept going on it.

So it became like okay my knees fucked up My line was messed up.

It's still run It's okay started Running because running doesn't require you bend down and shit.

So I'm running a lot and they got to 20 years later pretty much and it was 2020 or I don't get this right Cameron Haynes came down and we went for a 20-mile run My knees were fucked up for like 10 years long story short.

It was like, okay, man I gotta get this thing looked at So when got looked at the doc was like, oh we can go in there and just do a quick little fucking You know cleanup job and the cleanup Job went so quick Guy was breaking tools and shit fucking up like literally broke tools and I have it in there He was breaking to

he told me your meniscus was the hardest meniscus He's ever experienced in his life.

I didn't know that meniscus could get that way he goes like he's not human He goes when I was cutting into meniscus it broke the scalpel.

Yep, wolf's lost and Joe me said wolf's lost something

Yeah, he said normally when you Cut into meniscus it just slices right through like butter.

Yeah, my 1 butter my 1 butter is all those motherfuckers who think I'm gonna put in them hundred-mile weeks go fuck yourself, bitch You don't get no shit like that baby.

No, I mean, That's the craziest thing I've ever heard like you've hardened your meniscus just through constant pressure and pounding Yeah, so he went in there to clean it up and then what happened

so basically that little meniscus that whatever the fuck was in There's a mind so my alignment was so bad The only thing that was keeping me able to do anything was that little fucked up Messed up with meniscus.

But the second that thing got out, dude It Was like I was have you seen Star Wars those those storm thing those those those big fucking things that what they called They have wobbly legs, and they hit like long

That's how my leg was It was it had nothing It was just like a little dangling, fucking like, so from my knee down, the shin, the tip fib, it just dangled.

I went from running 200 miles to, I did 240 mile race in 2020, October 2020.

Went out there, got second place, 62 hours.

Knee was fucked up getting it drained before the fucking race, but I still ran 240 miles.

Literally, 5 or 6 days before the race, I'm getting it drained.

And it was a baseball-sized fucking, it's called a baker's assist.

So they drained it, and I went in there and did the race.

Finished it, and I was like, okay, here we go.

Went on to do some more races I did like another 200 miler did a couple more races and then I could say cam came down But after that I went got this surgery done and I went from running every day to now I have some fucking legs just dangles and After that surgery just fucking dangling.

and just from that little piece of meniscus

Just that little piece of meniscus, and I'm sitting there thinking okay, man.

This is not this doesn't make any sense to me This is something fucked.

I don't understand why I can't I can't put any pressure on My leg the the amount of blood they were taking out was was unbelievable.

that is deoxygenated blood So whatever was going on whatever the fuck was going on.

That's why it looks different color So the red blood is the blood that has oxygen.

Yep Jesus yeah, so that so after Surgery I'm like I'm like 7 7 days out of whatever the fuck it was it once again I don't know the exact times, but I have them in the book.

I have everything fucking dialed in I went back and I was like man.

I mean it's a simple meniscus surgery man Like people go back a week later.

I'm never gonna fucking run again I'm gonna walk with a fucking limp.

I'm getting fucking like I'm literally getting my knee drained every week getting PRP I'm like man, but In the back of my mind, I know how far I can push myself.

It was a February March April May June About 4 months 4 months after the surgery 4 or 5 months.

I'm like, hey Jennifer I gotta find another somebody else look at my fucking knee So I try to keep my shit together, but imagine when you go from every day your fucking life grinding and you go to nothing Like literally like 90 minute surgery

That's crazy that it was just a little meniscus scope.

And we fly there, but I'm like, he can't fix this, man, because I knew it was a lot more than knees it was just it was all kind of this fucked up body shit and I am I walk in the office and he decides to see me and me and Jennifer and there Jennifer's happy.

She's happy shit It's like oh my god, man.

This guy's gonna be able to get you a fucking meniscus replacement.

I Will push myself and I'll go as far as I can But I also am a realist I also knew the back of my I'm not gonna try to ruin your fucking party Jennifer.

This is what I'm saying myself But this shit's done.

So I went just to pretty much appease her And just see what we know anything left.

So I walk in the office and Doc's like, Yeah, I'm looking at your x-rays and that's the doctor who's like, I don't know how, this is 1 of the, Dr.

Gamal, look him up, world renowned motherfucker dude.

And when this guy looked at me, straight faced, he said, man, I don't know how you did anything with those knees, anything, let alone run 200 miles back to back 240 miles where the fuck you did I don't know how you did it and So I'm like, okay, whatever can we get it fixed?

And he didn't want to get there because he knew I was fucked He's like no, You know, we we can maybe you know, try it in an unloader brace Maybe an unloader brace will help you out.

So basically my knee went in on the meniscus side on the inside.

So it was like jamming on the inside So this brace kind of Like it kind of helps realign the knee a little bit.

So then you can not have so much pressure on the inside of your leg.

Yeah, so basically I'm like, man, I'm like, okay, I'm not.

And he was walking out of the office and he could tell I was like I wasn't too fucked up But I was like cuz I kind of was preparing myself for the next part of my journey I don't like to lay in my shit too long.

You know, I give myself a couple minutes.

Okay, motherfucker we got a man to fuck up.

We gotta get back in this fucking, like, what's next?

You know, let's go see, let's go back to college, let's do something, because you're running and your athletic career's done.

So, he got to the door, he opened it, and as he was literally, he was shouldered out the motherfucking door And I'm looking at Jennifer.

I'm like, well, you know, we'll go back to fucking, you know Go back to Nevada and fucking start again and he was like try the unloader brace out and There's 1 more thing we could possibly do for you now I'm like Motherfucker like get you a little monkey fucking ass back in here, bro.

So he was like, yeah, there's this surgery called HTO He was like you can go in we can fucking you know, pretty much break your tibia It's called high tibia osteotomy.

They go in and they break your tibia They they like slice into it and they they wedge it to the point where they realign your leg back up.

And they put that plate, the plate you saw, back on and then your leg is...so your knee is still where it was because this doesn't get fixed so it takes several months for that knee to start working that way back into where that alignment is.

It's deformed yep, and that slice Lowers the part that's deformed and tries to make it a more natural shape, but you're still dealing with bone-on-bone So you're still deal you're still dealing with the pain of arthritis, essentially.

So the thing about it, it takes that pressure off of that.

What that surgery does is it takes it over to the lateral side.


Speaker 0: The Joe Rogan Experience

Speaker 1: People think that my knees are bad from a lot of running, and they're wrong. I wasn't born healthy. I wasn't born with some great body alignment, some great, you know, I have sickle cell, I have all kinds of shit. I have all kinds of health issues, you know, all kind of, I'm fucked up. So I had a choice to make.

And the choice was, you know, growing up, you know, okay, this hurts, that hurts. We can just sit down and do nothing. Or we can see how far we can push the human body. So on that journey, as I started getting more and more into my mind, I started realizing that while, what I'm capable of doing, my mind got stronger. So the pain in my knees, while it sucked, I've been doing it for so long.

It was like, it became my new norm. Like, okay, my knees hurt, fuck it. Stop, and I call it like, stop feeling sorry for yourself, But you sometimes have to ignore your feelings.

Speaker 0: I'm gonna send Jamie a picture you need.

Speaker 1: Oh, no, dude I think Jamie has some

Speaker 0: do you have a picture of his knee Jamie? Did I ever send it to you Jamie? I Have it here. Hold on. Let me just but keep going.

Speaker 1: No, so it's like for me I I made decision and my decision was to be the best person I could and I basically a lot more as I wake up and say fuck your feelings and that doesn't mean like you know don't take it literally fuck your feelings but sometimes you have to go Beyond what you're feeling and my knees were fucked, but guess what I wanted to run and I knew that okay You can get knee replacements this and that like I said, it wasn't because of I ran too much people I was gonna sell me you ran so much so you fucked up your body, you know You don't want to be like David Goggins. I hit all the time. You won't be like David Goggins But so

Speaker 0: there's you need

Speaker 1: yeah, there it

Speaker 0: is Look at the fact that there's 0 space Between those bones.

Speaker 1: Yes, sir

Speaker 0: from the top from your your your tibia to your femur. There's 0 space It's just kneecap covering 2 bones that are rubbing against each other. And so... This was after surgery, where they had to cut your knee, slice your shin, like, in half, and then take a chunk out of it because it had deformed so much from you running with bone on bone, that it was starting to, like, swell out in 1 direction.

Speaker 1: And

Speaker 0: it was changing the alignment of your leg.

Speaker 1: Right. This happened back in 2000. 2001, I was going through buds. So this happened for a long... This right here has been going on for a long time So and it got to a point where it's like, okay, I'm done And that's the play that's in there right now.

So as you see the wedge That part there in the bone that's opened up.

Speaker 0: Yeah,

Speaker 1: so they to cut it realign it and then Now the alignments better, but this is now about 17 months ago 17 18 months ago when this happened So

Speaker 0: can I get some screws that fit go back to that? Is that thing sticking in your leg

Speaker 1: no, I don't well I feel the plate every single time I move Yeah, so everything so cuz it's like connected to the hamstring So whenever I fucking whenever I move that plate is very irritating. So every step, even like when I walk, when I run, it's just, it's this very irritating thing. And then you gotta wait for so long for that leg to start getting back into place And if you see that other picture I sent of the foam my my foam leg that put my hand in I think Jennifer sent it to you Jamie with the foam leg. You'll see this in a second. This is fucked up.

So like this swelling in that leg Was fucking nuts.

Speaker 0: Oh when you had edema,

Speaker 1: yeah,

Speaker 0: you showed it to me in Vegas Yeah, you were sticking your thumb into your

Speaker 1: grabbed it. Yeah. Yeah, so it was it was pretty nuts But you know once again, It's just things you things I was willing to endure To get yeah, right there

Speaker 0: So that's just all post surgery swelling

Speaker 1: yeah,

Speaker 0: so when the doctor Said this to you, and he he said look. This is how fucked up your knee is mm-hmm. Do you say you need a replacement? What was he saying

Speaker 1: basically I had 2 options so I went to the first guy had the surgery done That's in the book. I talked about that But then the second guy so after the first surgery I was done,

Speaker 0: So this is the first surgery after buds.

Speaker 1: No, so this is like back in Looking at 2000 so me and Cameron this is recently so I didn't have any surgery going through buds

Speaker 0: Really?

Speaker 1: I have any surgery at all. So I went through in 2001 I fucked it 2000 2001 whatever was I messed up my leg real bad and hell we kept on going on it just kept on going what did

Speaker 0: you do to it and how weak

Speaker 1: it was like I fucked it up somehow like running or whatever I have it and can't hurt me but it was I think the boat I fell it twisted but over a period of time it's got worse and worse and worse. So I was getting like tore at all shots every day. And then this got worse, but I'm like, fuck it, I'm good. So I kept going on it, so it kind of healed all fucked up. So just kept going, kept going, kept going.

Years later, years later, just kept going on it. So I stopped squatting. So it became like okay my knees fucked up My line was messed up. My hips are messed up. I can't squat so back.

It's still run It's okay started Running because running doesn't require you bend down and shit. So I'm running a lot and they got to 20 years later pretty much and it was 2020 or I don't get this right Cameron Haynes came down and we went for a 20-mile run My knees were fucked up for like 10 years long story short. It was like, okay, man I gotta get this thing looked at So when got looked at the doc was like, oh we can go in there and just do a quick little fucking You know cleanup job and the cleanup Job went so quick Guy was breaking tools and shit fucking up like literally broke tools and I have it in there He was breaking to

Speaker 0: I talked to him.

Speaker 1: I know

Speaker 0: he told me your meniscus was the hardest meniscus He's ever experienced in his life. He's like dude. He goes. I didn't know that meniscus could get that way he goes like he's not human He goes when I was cutting into meniscus it broke the scalpel.

Speaker 1: Yep, wolf's lost and Joe me said wolf's lost something

Speaker 0: Yeah, he said normally when you Cut into meniscus it just slices right through like butter. He's like I couldn't cut it

Speaker 1: Yeah, my 1 butter my 1 butter is all those motherfuckers who think I'm gonna put in them hundred-mile weeks go fuck yourself, bitch You don't get no shit like that baby. I send the fucking couch

Speaker 0: No, I mean, That's the craziest thing I've ever heard like you've hardened your meniscus just through constant pressure and pounding Yeah, so he went in there to clean it up and then what happened

Speaker 1: so basically that little meniscus that whatever the fuck was in There's a mind so my alignment was so bad The only thing that was keeping me able to do anything was that little fucked up Messed up with meniscus. It was all jarred up and jacked up. But the second that thing got out, dude It Was like I was have you seen Star Wars those those storm thing those those those big fucking things that what they called They have wobbly legs, and they hit like long

Speaker 0: robot things.

Speaker 1: Yeah, the robot things. That's how my leg was It was it had nothing It was just like a little dangling, fucking like, so from my knee down, the shin, the tip fib, it just dangled. Like there was nothing. And I was like, okay man, this

Speaker 0: is fucked. So it was worse after the cleanup.

Speaker 1: Much worse. Like I was done. I went from running 200 miles to, I did 240 mile race in 2020, October 2020. It was Moab. Went out there, got second place, 62 hours.

Knee was fucked up getting it drained before the fucking race, but I still ran 240 miles. Literally, 5 or 6 days before the race, I'm getting it drained. And it was a baseball-sized fucking, it's called a baker's assist. So they drained it, and I went in there and did the race. Finished it, and I was like, okay, here we go.

Went on to do some more races I did like another 200 miler did a couple more races and then I could say cam came down But after that I went got this surgery done and I went from running every day to now I have some fucking legs just dangles and After that surgery just fucking dangling. I was like, okay, man fucked

Speaker 0: and just from that little piece of meniscus

Speaker 1: Just that little piece of meniscus, and I'm sitting there thinking okay, man. This is not this doesn't make any sense to me This is something fucked. I don't understand why I can't I can't put any pressure on My leg the the amount of blood they were taking out was was unbelievable. So there's the blood right there. Jesus Christ That's the blood dude.

Speaker 0: Oh my god is 1234.

Speaker 1: You see the black blood.

Speaker 0: Yeah,

Speaker 1: that is deoxygenated blood So whatever was going on whatever the fuck was going on.

Speaker 0: That's why it looks different color So the red blood is the blood that has oxygen. That's right. And that was just like coagulated. Yes fucked up blood.

Speaker 1: Yep Jesus yeah, so that so after Surgery I'm like I'm like 7 7 days out of whatever the fuck it was it once again I don't know the exact times, but I have them in the book. I have everything fucking dialed in I went back and I was like man. I'm fucked up. I mean it's a simple meniscus surgery man Like people go back a week later. They're playing 2 weeks 3 weeks tops.

I'm like man. I'm never gonna fucking run again I'm gonna walk with a fucking limp. So I'm going back. I'm getting fucking like I'm literally getting my knee drained every week getting PRP I'm like man, but In the back of my mind, I know how far I can push myself. I know my body so fucking well, so well.

And I'm like, this is wrong. I go, I'm never gonna run again. I'm never gonna run again. I walk with a limp. So this went on for about 6 months.

So I had the surgery done in February. It was a February March April May June About 4 months 4 months after the surgery 4 or 5 months. I'm like, hey Jennifer I gotta find another somebody else look at my fucking knee So I try to keep my shit together, but imagine when you go from every day your fucking life grinding and you go to nothing Like literally like 90 minute surgery

Speaker 0: Done. That's crazy that it was just a little meniscus scope.

Speaker 1: 90-minute surgery, done. And I was like, okay, man, this is... Anyway... So, I found this guy named Dr. Gamal, out of New York.

And we fly there, but I'm like, he can't fix this, man, because I knew it was a lot more than knees it was just it was all kind of this fucked up body shit and I am I walk in the office and he decides to see me and me and Jennifer and there Jennifer's happy. She's happy shit It's like oh my god, man. This guy's gonna be able to get you a fucking meniscus replacement. He was all kind of guru doubt. Mm-hmm But I'm a realist bro.

I Will push myself and I'll go as far as I can But I also am a realist I also knew the back of my I'm not gonna try to ruin your fucking party Jennifer. This is what I'm saying myself But this shit's done. It's over. So I went just to pretty much appease her And just see what we know anything left. So I walk in the office and Doc's like, Yeah, I'm looking at your x-rays and that's the doctor who's like, I don't know how, this is 1 of the, Dr.

Gamal, look him up, world renowned motherfucker dude. And when this guy looked at me, straight faced, he said, man, I don't know how you did anything with those knees, anything, let alone run 200 miles back to back 240 miles where the fuck you did I don't know how you did it and So I'm like, okay, whatever can we get it fixed? And he didn't want to get there because he knew I was fucked He's like no, You know, we we can maybe you know, try it in an unloader brace Maybe an unloader brace will help you out. You know, what's

Speaker 0: an unloader brace?

Speaker 1: So basically my knee went in on the meniscus side on the inside. So it was like jamming on the inside So this brace kind of Like it kind of helps realign the knee a little bit. So then you can not have so much pressure on the inside of your leg. So I sit right

Speaker 0: there. So 1 side.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically I'm like, man, I'm like, okay, I'm not. So this is all you have for me. I'm like, you can't do shit for me. And he was like, no. And he was walking out of the office and he could tell I was like I wasn't too fucked up But I was like cuz I kind of was preparing myself for the next part of my journey I don't like to lay in my shit too long.

You know, I give myself a couple minutes. Okay, motherfucker we got a man to fuck up. We gotta get back in this fucking, like, what's next? You know, let's go see, let's go back to college, let's do something, because you're running and your athletic career's done. So, he got to the door, he opened it, and as he was literally, he was shouldered out the motherfucking door And I'm looking at Jennifer.

I'm like, well, you know, we'll go back to fucking, you know Go back to Nevada and fucking start again and he was like try the unloader brace out and There's 1 more thing we could possibly do for you now I'm like Motherfucker like get you a little monkey fucking ass back in here, bro. Like what is it like? What the fuck's going on? So he was like, yeah, there's this surgery called HTO He was like you can go in we can fucking you know, pretty much break your tibia It's called high tibia osteotomy. They go in and they break your tibia They they like slice into it and they they wedge it to the point where they realign your leg back up.

It's a very painful surgery. It's very painful afterwards. Painful as fuck afterwards. And they put that plate, the plate you saw, back on and then your leg is...so your knee is still where it was because this doesn't get fixed so it takes several months for that knee to start working that way back into where that alignment is. So now my leg is just now so here it is.

You can

Speaker 0: see it on the image. Yeah. So they take a slice out of it. Yes. It's deformed yep, and that slice Lowers the part that's deformed and tries to make it a more natural shape, but you're still dealing with bone-on-bone So you're still deal you're still dealing with the pain of arthritis, essentially.

Do you have any cartilage in your knees?

Speaker 1: Not much. Not much at all, if any. So the thing about it, it takes that pressure off of that. So it was complete bone on bone.

Speaker 0: Right.

Speaker 1: What that surgery does is it takes it over to the lateral side.

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David Goggins Thought He'd Never Run Again