Taken from JRE MMA Show #138 w/Cory Sandhagen:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3V1oJX2P6Y3nVgammsckSh?si=7cda74440ed1498d

That was, in my opinion, 1 of the most technical and 1 of the finest performances in that division.

have a guy like you and Marlon go after it like that, That was a fucking great fight.

Thank you really great fight And you're you're like on top of it right now, man.

like I've really been Just plugging up some holes like figuring some stuff out I feel like I'm at the part in the martial arts journey where I've gotten really good at being a really good learner.

Like I can learn super fast and super efficiently now.

And it's like big time paying off like not only that but I also the space I was in before that Cheeto fight was Unlike 1 that I feel like I've ever been in in my life.

How so You know, have you read like a decent amount of sports psych books.

Where they'll sometimes talk about how you're almost having this out of body experience where you're almost like floating above the court or the field or whatever.

It was almost like that except I wouldn't use the word like floating above but I got to a space in that fight where I felt like all of the thoughts and all of the distracting things that sometimes happen in a fight were completely ignored and this higher being, better version, best no-thinker, just actor was running the show.

It's almost like I was watching The thing happened while I was in the fight and there would be bits of me hopping in and being like hey throw this Combination hey take a little bit more of a risk.

Hey do this and then that would get completely just watched and this whoever was fighting that night that didn't even feel like me was the person that was fighting.

It was like you know like a psychedelic experience feeling type of thing.

It's a lot of, you know, messing stuff up.

Like, I remember the last time I was on was right after I had beaten Frankie.

And I was in, it's just a bunch of different parts of the journey, and in that part of the journey, I was really in this space where if I could make myself more war, If I could make myself more angry if I can make make myself be up here I would have success that kind of stopped working a little bit after Like around the TJ fight and then kind of during the yawn Fight and then definitely I tried to be that guy against Song and it was like too much of a distracting feeling Where now my mindset's going into the last fight because it was such like a distracting feeling just feeling like I have to get myself to a point of anger or upness before a fight where it just became distracting, where it was helpful before it became distracting in that song fight.

I bailed on that and I just tried to be as mindful and as present as I possibly could for like, and I know that those are like kind of corny words now but there is some real substance to them when they're like really done well and I would say maybe about 6 weeks before the fight I had this moment where I was sitting on the couch because I put a lot of pressure on myself and I wanna be a world champ real bad, where I was to the point where I wasn't enjoying any part of the camp, any part of the experience of fighting or anything.

And I was sitting on the couch and I just like, I think I was crying a little bit, and I was like, I can't fucking do this for the next 5 years of my life.

You know, like I can't do this for the rest of my career.

And I was like, well, what's gotta change?

And I was like, I gotta lose, I gotta take this pressure off of me, and I gotta start enjoying every day a lot more than I am right now and From that like 6 weeks before the fight I started doing that and I really think that that carried into the fight and it made me be a Lot less tense a lot less tight and it made me be able to fight with just like a completely free way of being

Wow Is this something that you had previously thought that You could get to that space or wanted to get to that space or is this something that you kind of?

Experimented along the way and found this path.

I'm a self learner and and I think that I Think that there's ways of being in life that like you just kind of have to be at certain times like when you're a young kid like you have to be like going and hitting it hard like you have to remember all of the hundreds of thousands of people on the other half of the world that are trying to accomplish the same goal as you and you have to be a little bit in my opinion you have to be a little bit on the neurotic side of like am I doing every single thing correct am I doing am I putting the right amount of pressure on me that that's totally a part of the journey but I'm kind of more in the part of the journey where I've matured a lot as a fighter I've matured a lot as a person, I'm getting married this year, like I'm a little bit older, we're looking at kids probably in the next couple years, and so I had to start thinking like what's sustainable?

Like what's like a sustainable way to continue doing what I love but also becoming like a more mature adult and That's just part of the journey that I'm in right now and I don't think that anything was wrong with the way that I was doing before but It just is like a moving target All the time

so it's like you're just finding new ways to approach it and then realizing this way is better than the other way Even though the other way was effective.

Like, in those times where I was really embracing this, like, war mentality, this like very, like, bloodthirsty, vicious type of fighter that I was trying to be when I would go into the cage that totally had its place because I had to experience what I what I thought that had to feel like in order for me to be the best martial artist that I can because I do feel like I've pointed all of my energy in my life and my mind and my spirit and everything towards the direction of being the best martial artist that I can be.

And so going through that had its purpose, man.

Like I had to figure out what it was like for me to be like a vicious killer, you know, because in society that's like not cool, you know?

So like almost like the shadow self or whatever is like the subconscious term for it I had to like experience that I experienced it.

I figured out that it was no longer serving me It was being distracting.

Now it's like, okay, you figured that part out.

You can be that guy whenever you want to be that guy, but now we're being present, now we're enjoying it.

And you don't really need to be that guy until you walk into the cage.

And even when you do walk into the cage, you don't need to be this like really dramatic, super emphasized, like vicious guy.

Like Be that guy, but you don't have to overdo it.

And when you're learning something, I almost feel like you have to completely overdo it in order to learn where that cutoff is.

Even in technique, if you could do an arm bar and win every single time with an arm bar why would you ever stop doing arm bars?

So like you figure out how to like do something way overdo it figure out where the cutoff is and be like okay I can't do it in like those situations you Pull back you figure out what situations you need to do it in and then you move forward

Hold on Check check check check check check Something happened over here Jamie.

I don't know what's going on, but I lost the headphones We'll be right back folks Sorry about that.

No, that's okay, so So what where were we at so what was it about?

The other way you were approaching it where you know last time you were here you had just embraced this idea That you went in there with the intention to fuck people up

It's it's like a it's like a hot burning Flame you know like I feel like it's I can only hold on to it for so long like I can't really Like it's a lot of energy to be that up and so when I would be in the back and warmed up Because you kind of you don't know Exactly when you're gonna walk, so I try to be ready.

You know like 20 minutes before It's been like 30 40 minutes warming up Trying to be that guy and then for 20 minutes trying to sustain that guy and that's like a long time to be that up You know so Even in the in this fight because there's no preparing for that last hour before you go walk like I don't care What type of guy you are how?

Zen you can be or how confident you are that that last hour before a fight like your mind's gonna fuck with you a lot and it's gonna go to you thinking that you're the god of the universe to you thinking that like you're about to go get slaughtered and in the back before if I started to feel like I was you know having those like Impulsive thoughts of like fear or you're about to go get slaughtered.

I try to just cover that shit up real quick by getting like real pissed And that's like a lot of energy to do so before the Cheeto fight I was super proud of the way that I was able to handle those feelings because those feelings are like real as hell when you're in the back.

Like, I just realized like, ah, okay, like I'm having the sense of fear in me.

And I would just kind of sit there and be like, okay, well, I'm not really fighting right now, so just let the fear be there.

And so I just took it, okay, right now I'm getting warmed up.

Okay, they said 10 more minutes till we walk.

Okay, I'm having the sense of fear still, that's okay.

And then step by step by step okay I'm walking out now cool okay looking across from them okay touch gloves now we're fighting it's literally it sounds super fucking simple but it's just step by step by step man just like okay I'm having that sense I'll just watch that and not really, I mean, you acknowledge it, but you don't, I don't try to cover it up or I don't try to be someone else, I just kinda watch it as if it was just someone else, it happened into someone else, and then just move on.

It doesn't sound super simple at all Not to me at least it's I know what you're saying and that feeling has got to be like riding a wild wave like you just got to maintain your balance and To watch you go into that fight What was so impressive?

Besides the fact that you're fighting a world-class guy in Marlon Vera and you were controlling the action was the Overwhelming like The amount of information you were throwing at him you were constantly changing levels constantly threatening takedowns constantly switching stances and everything was you know, there's Fighters kind of sometimes they'll fall into a pattern And you can kind of predict that pattern there was no pattern with you It was all over the place and it was so overwhelming when I was watching I was like Jesus Christ like this is so high level, and I don't I mean for like a casual I Don't know If they're seeing that but for someone who watches a lot of fights and has been around martial arts You know my whole life when I was watching I was like this is about as high level as it gets

like you were mixing shit up So well like the way you were choosing Your attacks whether it was the low kick or whether it was punches and the switch stance to punches the the shot It was amazing man.

It was really fun to watch because It wasn't just that You were doing that but you were doing that for 5 fucking rounds like you never varied you never slowed down There was never like breathers.

It was just a full-on assault of all of his reactions and all of His his you know ability to read you it was like attack bang hit there, okay trying to settle boom this coming I thought there's a shot.

It was like there was no there was no breaks.

yeah It was pretty wild I think that that's always gonna be 1 of my stronger points is that I can make decisions a lot faster than other people.

I honestly think that that's what makes good people from great people because good people can do, they can make the right decisions and continue to make them, continue to make them, continue to make them, But at some point the person that's better at doing those things is going to surpass that person eventually.

It might not happen early, you know, like it could take some time and against some of the best guys in the world it's gonna take some time, but Eventually your processing speed will outpower theirs, you know, and I think that I do that really really well.

So all of the conditioning that I do or almost the conditioning parts that I take really seriously are the sparring days.

I used to like hit mitts real hard and I still do like a strength and conditioning workout once a week.

That's like you know 30 seconds, 30 seconds, 30 seconds, minute rest you know and stuff like that But there's no getting tired like there is getting tired in sparring.

So I'll do, if I, I usually do 10 week camps.

The first week I just knock the rust off, you know, and then I do 2 7 weeks or 2 7 round weeks.

And then the next 2 weeks, I do 8 rounds both of those days.

And then I'll do like 6, and then the rest of them 5, Because I want to get used to 5 but in those 7 round weeks and those 8 round weeks Those are hard as fuck man Like I get like I try to get so tired where I'm just like I can't I don't feel like I can make decisions anymore and I really think that Having the concentration to focus for those 40 minutes Makes it way easier for me to focus in the 25 minutes.

You know like It's you know, I don't really know if that's science or not But I definitely think that if I can stay focused for 40 minutes, 25 minutes will feel like nothing.


Speaker 0: The Joe Rogan experience.

Speaker 1: That was, in my opinion, 1 of the most technical and 1 of the finest performances in that division. That 135 pound

Speaker 2: division to

Speaker 1: have a guy like you and Marlon go after it like that, That was a fucking great fight. Thank you really great fight And you're you're like on top of it right now, man. It's really exciting to watch

Speaker 0: Yeah, I'm getting pretty good.

Speaker 1: You know yeah for real

Speaker 0: like I've really been Just plugging up some holes like figuring some stuff out I feel like I'm at the part in the martial arts journey where I've gotten really good at being a really good learner. Like I can learn super fast and super efficiently now. And it's like big time paying off like not only that but I also the space I was in before that Cheeto fight was Unlike 1 that I feel like I've ever been in in my life. How so You know, have you read like a decent amount of sports psych books. Where they'll sometimes talk about how you're almost having this out of body experience where you're almost like floating above the court or the field or whatever.

It was almost like that except I wouldn't use the word like floating above but I got to a space in that fight where I felt like all of the thoughts and all of the distracting things that sometimes happen in a fight were completely ignored and this higher being, better version, best no-thinker, just actor was running the show. It's almost like I was watching The thing happened while I was in the fight and there would be bits of me hopping in and being like hey throw this Combination hey take a little bit more of a risk. Hey do this and then that would get completely just watched and this whoever was fighting that night that didn't even feel like me was the person that was fighting. It was fucking cool man. Wow.

It was cool dude. It was like you know like a psychedelic experience feeling type of thing. It was cool.

Speaker 1: What do you attribute that to? How did you get to that mindset?

Speaker 0: It's a lot of, you know, messing stuff up. Like, I remember the last time I was on was right after I had beaten Frankie. And I was in, it's just a bunch of different parts of the journey, and in that part of the journey, I was really in this space where if I could make myself more war, If I could make myself more angry if I can make make myself be up here I would have success that kind of stopped working a little bit after Like around the TJ fight and then kind of during the yawn Fight and then definitely I tried to be that guy against Song and it was like too much of a distracting feeling Where now my mindset's going into the last fight because it was such like a distracting feeling just feeling like I have to get myself to a point of anger or upness before a fight where it just became distracting, where it was helpful before it became distracting in that song fight. I bailed on that and I just tried to be as mindful and as present as I possibly could for like, and I know that those are like kind of corny words now but there is some real substance to them when they're like really done well and I would say maybe about 6 weeks before the fight I had this moment where I was sitting on the couch because I put a lot of pressure on myself and I wanna be a world champ real bad, where I was to the point where I wasn't enjoying any part of the camp, any part of the experience of fighting or anything.

And I was sitting on the couch and I just like, I think I was crying a little bit, and I was like, I can't fucking do this for the next 5 years of my life. You know, like I can't do this for the rest of my career. And I was like, well, what's gotta change? And I was like, I gotta lose, I gotta take this pressure off of me, and I gotta start enjoying every day a lot more than I am right now and From that like 6 weeks before the fight I started doing that and I really think that that carried into the fight and it made me be a Lot less tense a lot less tight and it made me be able to fight with just like a completely free way of being

Speaker 1: Wow Is this something that you had previously thought that You could get to that space or wanted to get to that space or is this something that you kind of? Experimented along the way and found this path.

Speaker 0: I'm a self learner and and I think that I Think that there's ways of being in life that like you just kind of have to be at certain times like when you're a young kid like you have to be like going and hitting it hard like you have to remember all of the hundreds of thousands of people on the other half of the world that are trying to accomplish the same goal as you and you have to be a little bit in my opinion you have to be a little bit on the neurotic side of like am I doing every single thing correct am I doing am I putting the right amount of pressure on me that that's totally a part of the journey but I'm kind of more in the part of the journey where I've matured a lot as a fighter I've matured a lot as a person, I'm getting married this year, like I'm a little bit older, we're looking at kids probably in the next couple years, and so I had to start thinking like what's sustainable? Like what's like a sustainable way to continue doing what I love but also becoming like a more mature adult and That's just part of the journey that I'm in right now and I don't think that anything was wrong with the way that I was doing before but It just is like a moving target All the time

Speaker 1: so it's like you're just finding new ways to approach it and then realizing this way is better than the other way Even though the other way was effective. This is even more effective. So you're constantly trying to tweak it. Yeah, and and I think that

Speaker 0: everything kind of has its purpose. Like, in those times where I was really embracing this, like, war mentality, this like very, like, bloodthirsty, vicious type of fighter that I was trying to be when I would go into the cage that totally had its place because I had to experience what I what I thought that had to feel like in order for me to be the best martial artist that I can because I do feel like I've pointed all of my energy in my life and my mind and my spirit and everything towards the direction of being the best martial artist that I can be. And so going through that had its purpose, man. Like I had to figure out what it was like for me to be like a vicious killer, you know, because in society that's like not cool, you know? So like almost like the shadow self or whatever is like the subconscious term for it I had to like experience that I experienced it.

I figured out that it was no longer serving me It was being distracting. So what do I need to do now? Now it's like, okay, you figured that part out. You can be that guy whenever you want to be that guy, but now we're being present, now we're enjoying it. And you don't really need to be that guy until you walk into the cage.

And even when you do walk into the cage, you don't need to be this like really dramatic, super emphasized, like vicious guy. Like Be that guy, but you don't have to overdo it. And when you're learning something, I almost feel like you have to completely overdo it in order to learn where that cutoff is. Even in technique, if you could do an arm bar and win every single time with an arm bar why would you ever stop doing arm bars?

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 0: It'd be stupid. So like you figure out how to like do something way overdo it figure out where the cutoff is and be like okay I can't do it in like those situations you Pull back you figure out what situations you need to do it in and then you move forward

Speaker 1: What was this what happened? What happened? I lost can you

Speaker 3: hear me? My headphones cut out

Speaker 2: Hold on Check check check check check check Something happened over here Jamie. I don't know what's going on, but I lost the headphones We'll be right back folks Sorry about that.

Speaker 1: No, that's okay, so So what where were we at so what was it about? The other way you were approaching it where you know last time you were here you had just embraced this idea That you went in there with the intention to fuck people up

Speaker 0: What was distracting about that? It's it's like a it's like a hot burning Flame you know like I feel like it's I can only hold on to it for so long like I can't really Like it's a lot of energy to be that up and so when I would be in the back and warmed up Because you kind of you don't know Exactly when you're gonna walk, so I try to be ready. You know like 20 minutes before It's been like 30 40 minutes warming up Trying to be that guy and then for 20 minutes trying to sustain that guy and that's like a long time to be that up You know so Even in the in this fight because there's no preparing for that last hour before you go walk like I don't care What type of guy you are how? Zen you can be or how confident you are that that last hour before a fight like your mind's gonna fuck with you a lot and it's gonna go to you thinking that you're the god of the universe to you thinking that like you're about to go get slaughtered and in the back before if I started to feel like I was you know having those like Impulsive thoughts of like fear or you're about to go get slaughtered.

I try to just cover that shit up real quick by getting like real pissed And that's like a lot of energy to do so before the Cheeto fight I was super proud of the way that I was able to handle those feelings because those feelings are like real as hell when you're in the back. And. How do you handle them? Well, I just watched them, man. Like, I just realized like, ah, okay, like I'm having the sense of fear in me.

And I would just kind of sit there and be like, okay, well, I'm not really fighting right now, so just let the fear be there. Right now your job is to get warmed up. And so I just took it, okay, right now I'm getting warmed up. Okay, they said 10 more minutes till we walk. Okay, I'm having the sense of fear still, that's okay.

I'm still in the back. And then step by step by step okay I'm walking out now cool okay looking across from them okay touch gloves now we're fighting it's literally it sounds super fucking simple but it's just step by step by step man just like okay I'm having that sense I'll just watch that and not really, I mean, you acknowledge it, but you don't, I don't try to cover it up or I don't try to be someone else, I just kinda watch it as if it was just someone else, it happened into someone else, and then just move on.

Speaker 1: It doesn't sound super simple at all Not to me at least it's I know what you're saying and that feeling has got to be like riding a wild wave like you just got to maintain your balance and To watch you go into that fight What was so impressive? Besides the fact that you're fighting a world-class guy in Marlon Vera and you were controlling the action was the Overwhelming like The amount of information you were throwing at him you were constantly changing levels constantly threatening takedowns constantly switching stances and everything was you know, there's Fighters kind of sometimes they'll fall into a pattern And you can kind of predict that pattern there was no pattern with you It was all over the place and it was so overwhelming when I was watching I was like Jesus Christ like this is so high level, and I don't I mean for like a casual I Don't know If they're seeing that but for someone who watches a lot of fights and has been around martial arts You know my whole life when I was watching I was like this is about as high level as it gets

Speaker 0: Thank you

Speaker 1: like you were mixing shit up So well like the way you were choosing Your attacks whether it was the low kick or whether it was punches and the switch stance to punches the the shot It was amazing man. It was really fucking good. It was really fun to watch because It wasn't just that You were doing that but you were doing that for 5 fucking rounds like you never varied you never slowed down There was never like breathers. It was just a full-on assault of all of his reactions and all of His his you know ability to read you it was like attack bang hit there, okay trying to settle boom this coming I thought there's a shot. It was like there was no there was no breaks.

Speaker 0: Yeah, it was pretty awesome man

Speaker 2: I got fucking wild

Speaker 0: yeah It was pretty wild I think that that's always gonna be 1 of my stronger points is that I can make decisions a lot faster than other people. I honestly think that that's what makes good people from great people because good people can do, they can make the right decisions and continue to make them, continue to make them, continue to make them, But at some point the person that's better at doing those things is going to surpass that person eventually. It might not happen early, you know, like it could take some time and against some of the best guys in the world it's gonna take some time, but Eventually your processing speed will outpower theirs, you know, and I think that I do that really really well. I think that My training has a lot to do

Speaker 1: with that too. What is different about your training?

Speaker 0: So all of the conditioning that I do or almost the conditioning parts that I take really seriously are the sparring days. I used to like hit mitts real hard and I still do like a strength and conditioning workout once a week. That's like you know 30 seconds, 30 seconds, 30 seconds, minute rest you know and stuff like that But there's no getting tired like there is getting tired in sparring. So I'll do, if I, I usually do 10 week camps. The first week I just knock the rust off, you know, and then I do 2 7 weeks or 2 7 round weeks.

So we spar Tuesday, Fridays. I do 7 rounds those days. And then the next 2 weeks, I do 8 rounds both of those days. And then I'll do like 6, and then the rest of them 5, Because I want to get used to 5 but in those 7 round weeks and those 8 round weeks Those are hard as fuck man Like I get like I try to get so tired where I'm just like I can't I don't feel like I can make decisions anymore and I really think that Having the concentration to focus for those 40 minutes Makes it way easier for me to focus in the 25 minutes. You know like It's you know, I don't really know if that's science or not But I definitely think that if I can stay focused for 40 minutes, 25 minutes will feel like nothing.

So I really push myself there.

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Cory Sandhagen Describes Chito Vera Fight as a Psychedelic Experience