Discover how Nate Zeleznick (Founder of the White Dove Method and previous Co-Founder of Vibravision®) realized he needed to "go deep" with his team members in order to lead effectively, why he claims that breathing properly directly impacts performance, and when he learned to delegate (14 minutes).

CEO BLINDSPOTS® PODCAST GUEST: Nate Zeleznick.

Nate Zeleznick is the Founder of the White Dove Method and Co-founder of Merpati Putih USA (MP USA), Inc. and Vibravision®. 

Nate's companies have been featured in award-winning documentaries such as SUPERHUMAN: The Invisible Made Visible, and the abilities the White Dove Method develops have been validated by numerous professionals in the fields of Medicine, Naturopathy, Optometry, Military, Physics, Quantum Physics, Neuroscience, Consciousness Research, the Blind Community, and many more for being able to teach everyday people to unlock their dormant higher abilities in a reliable way. Passed down by the Kings of Java, Indonesia, for over five centuries, the White Dove Method is the most advanced Lifeforce (Chi) development and perception system on the planet.  

Over the past 20+ years, he has undergone life-and-death trials, mastered the energetic and martial arts, and co-founded the only U.S. schools allowed to train these capabilities. Nate's mission is to guide millions to achieve SUPERHUMAN breakthroughs and live the longest, healthiest, most empowered, and consciously aware lives possible. 

For more information about Nate and the White Dove Method; 

https://whitedovemethod.com/masterclass57624130



CEO Blindspots® podcast host: Birgit Kamps.

Birgit's professional experience includes starting and selling an “Inc. 500 Fastest Growing Private Company” and a “Best Company to Work for in Texas”, and serving as a Board Member with various companies. She is able to help investors and executives quickly discover blind spots holding their organization back, and accelerate leadership effectiveness.

In addition, Birgit is the host of the CEO Blindspots® Podcast which was recognized by Spotify for having the “biggest listener growth” in the USA by 733%; ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ceoblindspots.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

To ask questions about this or one of the 200+ other CEO Blindspots® Podcast episodes, send an email to⁠ ⁠birgit@ceoblindspots.com⁠⁠

Hello and welcome to the CEO Blindspot Show, where leaders lead leaders.

and today's guest is Nate Zalesnik, who is the founder and CEO of the White Dove Method.

And in addition, Nate was the founder of iRevision, which disrupted the way blind communities were being served.

And he's been featured in award-winning documentaries, such as Superhuman.

Yeah, well, I'm so glad that our friend Gus Hallis connected us because there's a lot of leaders struggling right now and they feel like they're the only ones that weren't born perfect leaders and the only ones struggling.

And you've succeeded in leading in all kinds of environment with all different kinds of people and even different cultures, right?

So what are 1 or 2 tips that helped you be an effective leader?

Well, first of all, being a leader, a CEO position and being responsible for an organization and the growth and the direction of it, As all of us who are leaders here understand, this is a lot of weight on our shoulders.

So there are a couple of things that I highly recommend that every single person who's in a leadership position, and that also includes parents, because as a leader of a family, you are literally directing the life of your children and your entire family and where you're going with that.

Some things that I highly recommend, first of all, is to incorporate a breath work practice.

And why that's so important is because we breathe unconsciously and 95% or more of the human population only uses about 15% of their lung capacity.

And why that's really relevant is that the number 1 indicator for longevity is breath capacity, but improper breathing has also been linked to over 200 different health conditions.

So with this in mind, if you're not breathing properly, you're definitely not going to be at your optimum game.

You're not going to be the most effective leader.

You're not going to be as centered as you possibly could.

You're not going to make the best decisions because the number 1 user of oxygen in our body and energy is our brain.

And so not giving it what it needs, we're not going to be able to function as well as we possibly could.

That said, second thing that I recommend for any leader is meditation.

And meditation, some people have a stigma around it, but The thing is, if you're a leader out there and you understand what it's like to be burning the candle at both ends with a blowtorch in the middle, sometimes it feels like that, right?

lot of the time, the only time that your brain actually gets a chance to rest is if you're in surgery under anesthesia, not optimal, or if you meditate and actually can slow your brainwaves down and give your brain a chance to pause.

Because as leaders, I'm sure we understand what it's like to not just multitask, but hyper task a lot.

Another thing that's a very important tip is to really develop an understanding of empathy and connection with your customers, but also most importantly with your team and really having the opportunity to sit down and talk.

And if we have people that are helping us in our organization, really understanding where they're at in their life, the traumas that they've encountered, I mean, going deep with your employees so that it's, I'm not going to say it's a family, but I'm going to say you're not just a dictatorial type of leader.

Those days are really going away And understanding culture, understanding empathy, understanding sympathy, understanding what people need, especially with the new millennial, the Gen Z and Gen Y generations coming up, they're really demanding that they're listened to more and not just yes, sir or yes, ma'am, and do what they're told.

And that also helps us because a lot of the time we were taught, do as I say, not as I do.

And you know, as we're going through this is we want more harmonious work relationships.

It's just really important to understand where people are coming from, and it helps us grow as humans being as well.

And that's really what we're here to do, not just make money.

There's a lot of leaders right now who understand the importance of adjusting their leadership style, and some of them have become aware of the importance of empathy.

But how did you learn the importance of empathy, especially towards your team members?

I'm going to say I learned, quote, unquote, the hard way.

In the martial arts realm, you know, as the leader, everybody pretty much, they don't bow.

Yeah, they do actually bow to you before and after classes.

But a lot of the time it would be difficult to have people actually express themselves honestly to me.

So there were so many things, Birgit, that I wasn't aware of because people were afraid to, they didn't want to hurt my feelings bad.

They didn't want to maybe a lower score on their next belt test or something, whatever story that they told in their mind.

So, you know, really understanding came to me the hard way, just not knowing and then hearing about things after explosions happened.

And up until that point, everything seemed great.

And so really taking a more proactive approach and asking people, Hey, how are you feeling checking in with them?

And not just a quarterly report, paying attention to people's body language, their mannerisms, feeling the energy coming off of them, the things that they say and how they say it with their voice inflection.

And just, you know, if you have a concern, it's important to address it right then.

It's almost always possible to be honest and also be kind.

So that for me is really, really important thing.

So I learned the hard way by losing employees.

I learned it the hard way by having staff members and students who would betray me or stab me in the back, say negative things behind my back.

And I didn't even know about this for literally years as they smiled at my face.

My full self absorption of saying, oh, well, everything's good.

And maybe this is a guy thing like, Hey, how are you feeling?

Translating that into business was 1 of my, I wouldn't say fatal, but I would say most serious flaws that I had to learn the hard way.

And so now I regularly check in with people that I work with and see how they're not just doing, but how they're being.

And that's so important because when people feel really seen and heard, they're a lot more likely to talk and to disclose and a lot more likely to be content with their position in your organization because they really feel like they're a human and a person and not just a automaton that serves a function.

Chairman, Center for Autonomous Behavioral Health and Welfare at Center for

Autonomous Behavioral Health and Welfare Wow.

Well, first of all, it sounds like you proactively now seek feedback after that blind spot of not realizing that things were not quote-unquote good.

But it's 1 thing to ask for feedback, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they feel safe telling you what's going on.

And so that's really individual based upon people.

It depends also on their own upbringing, their own trauma.

So let's say they were raised in a home where it was not okay to be them.

It was not okay to be them wanting things or asking things or, oh, hell no, receiving things.

We have a lot of those barriers to entry, so to speak, and honest communication.

So 1 thing that really helped me was taking an active listening course and continuing to learn more about that so that I can ask deeper, more pertinent personal questions.

But when you listen to someone, there's a difference between hearing them and listening.

So, a lot of the time, unless you have somebody like Stifler out of American Pie, if anybody remembers that movie where there's a no filter, completely obnoxious, whatever they're thinking, it comes out as rude as possible.

Those are not necessarily the type of people that I like to associate with because the crassness is there.

But still to that point, having people that will express honestly is really important.

But sometimes you do need to listen and hear them deeply, ask other questions that will help them feel safe in expressing.

And that really depends on each individual person.

But I think really for me, pre-framing it right off the bat that, Hey, no matter what you say, your job is safe.

We want to create a better result for you.

Increase the happiness quotient, the HQ and the EQ.

And so that we have better results in the company, but also a better experience because seriously, if you're spending 40 plus hours of every single week of your whole life doing something, why do it if it sucks?

You know, you want to have something where you're content, you're happy.

Maybe you're an accountant and you don't really like accounting and you're like, yippee, this is the best thing I could possibly do with my time.

It's either this, climbing the Himalayas or surfing in Bali, you know.

Oh, well, of course, you're gonna want to go and do accounting over all that stuff, right?

But when they feel like they're seen, they're heard, they're contributing, and they're recognized for what they're doing.

And granted, I'm a work in progress when it comes to this, Birgit.

I'm still a work in progress like everybody else on the planet.

But as I see it more and more and as I do it and the results come, I really love what I'm finding.

Well, definitely appreciate you sharing that.

And you said setting the framework, right?

Because you can have the perfect questions, but if you don't set the framework correctly, then they may still not open up.

And then earlier you said, pay attention not to just what they're doing, but who they're being.

And I can already sense that who you are being now as a leader is different than before, right?

So I'm really glad that you discovered that and you're willing to share how you got there.

Like I said, the hard way, and at that time I was working with a family member for 24 years and anybody who's worked with family knows that sometimes that can be pretty hard.

And so my brother and I would butt heads a lot on different things.

And so sometimes my leadership or my approach would be different than his and we would have, you know, differences on that.

And that also was something where there was not a clear leader in that role.

So then when there was a disagreement, it would be an equal disagreement and it would actually bleed out into the staff unknowns to us.

But I mean, we're training people how to sense energy.

And so with that said, once we both made that split, both of us started to step into our own leadership role as who we actually can be as leaders without the other person possibly interfering with them.

Well, but to your point, you know, your team knows when there's issues and that of course impacts performance.

Anyway, it sounds like you've learned a lot of great lessons and thank you for sharing them.

And it sounds like you've been through some crisis.

And how did you make it through other crisis that maybe other leaders can learn from?

So it seems like as entrepreneurs, there's always something that's called the tyranny of the urgent.

There's always stuff to be taken care of.

You know, there's always a new fire to be put out.

Sometimes they're in dumpsters, sometimes they're in entire forests.

And the thing about this is, for me, I really struggled a lot with delegating and allowing people to take the reins and feeling confident that they were competent to do things.

We both struggled with that for a long time.

And it's the, I guess it's the, the founder's responsibility that we felt to have everything be on our shoulders.

But once we came into this crisis where either got sick or somebody was out of town or we couldn't do it ourselves.

And we started putting the people who had been training to be in the position of leadership and training to be in the position of leadership and training.

And of course, little bumpy right at the start, but then they took off like a rocket.

So what this does, and by delegating, not abdicating, but delegating and letting people have those roles, it empowers them, they're happier, and sometimes they do a better job than you do, really see what they can do and let them fly.

May not be like, you know, put my life in your hands.

So the very first time doing this, okay, sure.

But when they've been doing things for a long time and you know that they're competent, sometimes it's important to let the bird, the baby bird fly, and you just watch, and then you can go back and course correct.

I say that because a lot of entrepreneurs I know do struggle with that.

Some are just amazing, and they're like, okay, awesome, I know every seat that needs to be full on the bus and all the right people.

And I'm gonna put everybody in the right seat on the bus and we're gonna be cruising.

But for a lot of us, we do struggle with how to do this.

And so sometimes you just have to let them fail.

And some just like with parenting, right?

And you have to also be willing to go and pick them up if necessary, and help them be to that position.

Otherwise, and I, you can ask me how I know this next part.

And you also have all the responsibility and with that comes all the stress.

You have all the successes, but you also have all the failures and at the end of the day, your health will suffer.

Your health will suffer if you do that we can make ourselves sick but we can also make ourselves well and I've seen cancer reversed in a week through meditation I mean I've seen amazing miraculous things And a lot of it has to do with once we stop being who we're not and start being who we really can be and also letting other people thrive, then life becomes a lot more in flow and effortless.

Well, again, I appreciate you, you know, coming on the show and sharing your leadership insights.

And you said something a minute ago about a lot of leaders right now are dealing with stress whether or not they're delegating.

But to your point, a lot of leaders may not be delegating like they should, but stress is definitely there.

I've seen lots of challenges around health and your method helps so many leaders.

Stephen Young said that you give people like him superhuman powers to deal with things, And then Dr.

Benjamin Christensen said that your method is a game changer.

So I also appreciate that our listeners can go to whitedovemethod.com and you've provided a free masterclass in case they want to learn how to basically de-stress themselves and be more effective leaders.

So thank you so much for your contributions to other leaders.


Speaker 0: Hello and welcome to the CEO Blindspot Show, where leaders lead leaders. I'm your host, Birgit Kamps,

Speaker 1: and today's guest is Nate Zalesnik, who is the founder and CEO of the White Dove Method. And in addition, Nate was the founder of iRevision, which disrupted the way blind communities were being served. And he's been featured in award-winning documentaries, such as Superhuman. Welcome to the show, Nate.

Speaker 2: Thank you, Birgit. It's an honor to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm so glad that our friend Gus Hallis connected us because there's a lot of leaders struggling right now and they feel like they're the only ones that weren't born perfect leaders and the only ones struggling. And you've succeeded in leading in all kinds of environment with all different kinds of people and even different cultures, right? So what are 1 or 2 tips that helped you be an effective leader?

Speaker 2: Absolutely. Well, first of all, being a leader, a CEO position and being responsible for an organization and the growth and the direction of it, As all of us who are leaders here understand, this is a lot of weight on our shoulders. So there are a couple of things that I highly recommend that every single person who's in a leadership position, and that also includes parents, because as a leader of a family, you are literally directing the life of your children and your entire family and where you're going with that. Some things that I highly recommend, first of all, is to incorporate a breath work practice. And why that's so important is because we breathe unconsciously and 95% or more of the human population only uses about 15% of their lung capacity.

And why that's really relevant is that the number 1 indicator for longevity is breath capacity, but improper breathing has also been linked to over 200 different health conditions. So with this in mind, if you're not breathing properly, you're definitely not going to be at your optimum game. You're not going to be the most effective leader. You're not going to be as centered as you possibly could. You're not going to make the best decisions because the number 1 user of oxygen in our body and energy is our brain.

And so not giving it what it needs, we're not going to be able to function as well as we possibly could. That said, second thing that I recommend for any leader is meditation. And meditation, some people have a stigma around it, but The thing is, if you're a leader out there and you understand what it's like to be burning the candle at both ends with a blowtorch in the middle, sometimes it feels like that, right?

Speaker 0: Then a

Speaker 2: lot of the time, the only time that your brain actually gets a chance to rest is if you're in surgery under anesthesia, not optimal, or if you meditate and actually can slow your brainwaves down and give your brain a chance to pause. Because as leaders, I'm sure we understand what it's like to not just multitask, but hyper task a lot. Another thing that's a very important tip is to really develop an understanding of empathy and connection with your customers, but also most importantly with your team and really having the opportunity to sit down and talk. And I mean, we're all just human beings. Everybody poops.

Think about it. We're all on equal playing field. There's no better and there's no lesser. And if we have people that are helping us in our organization, really understanding where they're at in their life, the traumas that they've encountered, I mean, going deep with your employees so that it's, I'm not going to say it's a family, but I'm going to say you're not just a dictatorial type of leader. Those days are really going away And understanding culture, understanding empathy, understanding sympathy, understanding what people need, especially with the new millennial, the Gen Z and Gen Y generations coming up, they're really demanding that they're listened to more and not just yes, sir or yes, ma'am, and do what they're told.

And that also helps us because a lot of the time we were taught, do as I say, not as I do. And you know, as we're going through this is we want more harmonious work relationships. It's just really important to understand where people are coming from, and it helps us grow as humans being as well. And that's really what we're here to do, not just make money.

Speaker 1: Yeah. There's a lot of leaders right now who understand the importance of adjusting their leadership style, and some of them have become aware of the importance of empathy. But how did you learn the importance of empathy, especially towards your team members?

Speaker 2: I'm going to say I learned, quote, unquote, the hard way. In the martial arts realm, you know, as the leader, everybody pretty much, they don't bow. Yeah, they do actually bow to you before and after classes. But a lot of the time it would be difficult to have people actually express themselves honestly to me. So there were so many things, Birgit, that I wasn't aware of because people were afraid to, they didn't want to hurt my feelings bad.

They didn't want to maybe a lower score on their next belt test or something, whatever story that they told in their mind. So, you know, really understanding came to me the hard way, just not knowing and then hearing about things after explosions happened. And up until that point, everything seemed great. Right. And so really taking a more proactive approach and asking people, Hey, how are you feeling checking in with them?

And not just a quarterly report, paying attention to people's body language, their mannerisms, feeling the energy coming off of them, the things that they say and how they say it with their voice inflection. And just, you know, if you have a concern, it's important to address it right then. It's almost always possible to be honest and also be kind. So that for me is really, really important thing. So I learned the hard way by losing employees.

I learned it the hard way by having staff members and students who would betray me or stab me in the back, say negative things behind my back. And I didn't even know about this for literally years as they smiled at my face. And it was my own self absorption. I'll fully take credit for this. My full self absorption of saying, oh, well, everything's good.

And maybe this is a guy thing like, Hey, how are you feeling? Good. Okay. I will believe it. Translating that into business was 1 of my, I wouldn't say fatal, but I would say most serious flaws that I had to learn the hard way.

And so now I regularly check in with people that I work with and see how they're not just doing, but how they're being. And that's so important because when people feel really seen and heard, they're a lot more likely to talk and to disclose and a lot more likely to be content with their position in your organization because they really feel like they're a human and a person and not just a automaton that serves a function. Danielle Pletka, MPH,

Speaker 0: Chairman, Center for Autonomous Behavioral Health and Welfare at Center for

Speaker 1: Autonomous Behavioral Health and Welfare Wow. Well, first of all, it sounds like you proactively now seek feedback after that blind spot of not realizing that things were not quote-unquote good. But it's 1 thing to ask for feedback, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they feel safe telling you what's going on. So how have you managed that?

Speaker 2: David You know, that's a great question. And so that's really individual based upon people. It depends also on their own upbringing, their own trauma. So let's say they were raised in a home where it was not okay to be them. It was not okay to be them wanting things or asking things or, oh, hell no, receiving things.

And that's most of us, actually. We have a lot of those barriers to entry, so to speak, and honest communication. So 1 thing that really helped me was taking an active listening course and continuing to learn more about that so that I can ask deeper, more pertinent personal questions. But when you listen to someone, there's a difference between hearing them and listening. So, a lot of the time, unless you have somebody like Stifler out of American Pie, if anybody remembers that movie where there's a no filter, completely obnoxious, whatever they're thinking, it comes out as rude as possible.

Those are not necessarily the type of people that I like to associate with because the crassness is there. But still to that point, having people that will express honestly is really important. But sometimes you do need to listen and hear them deeply, ask other questions that will help them feel safe in expressing. And that really depends on each individual person. But I think really for me, pre-framing it right off the bat that, Hey, no matter what you say, your job is safe.

You're safe. I'm safe. We want to create a better result for you. Increase the happiness quotient, the HQ and the EQ. And so that we have better results in the company, but also a better experience because seriously, if you're spending 40 plus hours of every single week of your whole life doing something, why do it if it sucks?

You know, you want to have something where you're content, you're happy. Sure. Maybe you're an accountant and you don't really like accounting and you're like, yippee, this is the best thing I could possibly do with my time. It's either this, climbing the Himalayas or surfing in Bali, you know. Oh, well, of course, you're gonna want to go and do accounting over all that stuff, right?

No. But when they feel like they're seen, they're heard, they're contributing, and they're recognized for what they're doing. And granted, I'm a work in progress when it comes to this, Birgit. I'm definitely not a master at this. I'm still a work in progress like everybody else on the planet.

But as I see it more and more and as I do it and the results come, I really love what I'm finding.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, definitely appreciate you sharing that. And you said setting the framework, right? Because you can have the perfect questions, but if you don't set the framework correctly, then they may still not open up. And then earlier you said, pay attention not to just what they're doing, but who they're being.

And I can already sense that who you are being now as a leader is different than before, right? So that also helps in opening people up. So I'm really glad that you discovered that and you're willing to share how you got there.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I said, the hard way, and at that time I was working with a family member for 24 years and anybody who's worked with family knows that sometimes that can be pretty hard. And so my brother and I would butt heads a lot on different things. And so sometimes my leadership or my approach would be different than his and we would have, you know, differences on that. And that also was something where there was not a clear leader in that role.

It was divided and equally. So then when there was a disagreement, it would be an equal disagreement and it would actually bleed out into the staff unknowns to us. But I mean, we're training people how to sense energy. So duh, people pick up on this. And so with that said, once we both made that split, both of us started to step into our own leadership role as who we actually can be as leaders without the other person possibly interfering with them.

So it's been a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, but to your point, you know, your team knows when there's issues and that of course impacts performance. Anyway, it sounds like you've learned a lot of great lessons and thank you for sharing them. And it sounds like you've been through some crisis. So how did you make it through that?

And how did you make it through other crisis that maybe other leaders can learn from?

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's okay. I love that. So it seems like as entrepreneurs, there's always something that's called the tyranny of the urgent. There's always stuff to be taken care of. You know, there's always a new fire to be put out.

Sometimes they're in dumpsters, sometimes they're in entire forests. And the thing about this is, for me, I really struggled a lot with delegating and allowing people to take the reins and feeling confident that they were competent to do things. And then my brother, same thing. We both struggled with that for a long time. And it's the, I guess it's the, the founder's responsibility that we felt to have everything be on our shoulders.

But once we came into this crisis where either got sick or somebody was out of town or we couldn't do it ourselves. And we started putting the people who had been training to be in the position of leadership and training to be in the position of leadership and training. And of course, little bumpy right at the start, but then they took off like a rocket. And it was just like, wow. So what this does, and by delegating, not abdicating, but delegating and letting people have those roles, it empowers them, they're happier, and sometimes they do a better job than you do, really see what they can do and let them fly.

May not be like, you know, put my life in your hands. So the very first time doing this, okay, sure. But when they've been doing things for a long time and you know that they're competent, sometimes it's important to let the bird, the baby bird fly, and you just watch, and then you can go back and course correct. I say that because a lot of entrepreneurs I know do struggle with that. Some are just amazing, and they're like, okay, awesome, I know every seat that needs to be full on the bus and all the right people.

And I'm gonna put everybody in the right seat on the bus and we're gonna be cruising. But for a lot of us, we do struggle with how to do this. And so sometimes you just have to let them fail. And some just like with parenting, right? Sometimes you have to let them fail.

And you have to also be willing to go and pick them up if necessary, and help them be to that position. Otherwise, and I, you can ask me how I know this next part. Otherwise, everything relies on you. And you wind up doing everything. And you also have all the responsibility and with that comes all the stress.

You have all the successes, but you also have all the failures and at the end of the day, your health will suffer. Period. Full stop. Your health will suffer if you do that we can make ourselves sick but we can also make ourselves well and I've seen cancer reversed in a week through meditation I mean I've seen amazing miraculous things And a lot of it has to do with once we stop being who we're not and start being who we really can be and also letting other people thrive, then life becomes a lot more in flow and effortless.

Speaker 1: Wow. Well, again, I appreciate you, you know, coming on the show and sharing your leadership insights. And you said something a minute ago about a lot of leaders right now are dealing with stress whether or not they're delegating. But to your point, a lot of leaders may not be delegating like they should, but stress is definitely there. I've seen lots of challenges around health and your method helps so many leaders.

In fact, I know that Dr. Stephen Young said that you give people like him superhuman powers to deal with things, And then Dr. Benjamin Christensen said that your method is a game changer. So I also appreciate that our listeners can go to whitedovemethod.com and you've provided a free masterclass in case they want to learn how to basically de-stress themselves and be more effective leaders. So thank you so much for your contributions to other leaders.

Speaker 2: My honor. Thank you for having me, Birgit. I appreciate it.

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Nate Zeleznick, Founder of the White Dove Method; "Go Deep!" (14 min)